D&D NEXT: Infinite Posts of the Abyss

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Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Conspiratiorist posted:

Warlock is not better than Rogue. In fact, I'd strongly recommend against Warlock for a newbie, since its core mechanics are hosed.

I've been looking at warlock, and I'm curious what you mean by its core mechanics being hosed. Personally I look at the miserably small number of spells they get per rest, and can only see the choice between doing nothing but eldritch blasts and constantly whining at the party to take a rest so you can cast a second spell today. Is there something else (and am I overestimating how meager their spells are)?

# ¿ Feb 27, 2018 23:04

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 12:13

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Conspiratiorist posted:

That's most of it. They're okay if the DM is giving you a short rest every other fight, and you have 6-8 fights per day, but otherwise you're functioning like a subpar martial with extremely limited casting. Short Rests are a hosed mechanic and are needed for Warlocks to function as intended. The alternative is DMs handing out the third pact slot earlier or a Rod of the Pact Keeper.

The other problem is that the class gives you this wide list of invocations to pick from, but 4-5 of those are so much better than the rest that it's a false choice. And believe me, I've seen newbies running around without Agonizing Blast; it's the saddest thing.

Conspiratiorist posted:

1-encounter days are also hilariously unbalanced in favor of full casters.

The fact that Eldritch Blast is optional at all is pretty odd. I was poking around online and found a pile of people saying warlock was fine because EB was strong, regardless of whether the thread's premise was "warlock is too weak" or "warlock is too strong"--my concern isn't pure char-op, it's just having things to do that don't boil down to firing off an EB every turn. I'd be joining a campaign midway at level 6, so that'd be Agonizing Blast and Book of Ancient Secrets, with one flex slot. Maybe something boring like Armor of Shadows.

I like the fluff for warlocks (and it's a niche that isn't really filled in Pathfinder unless you roll a dark tapestry oracle or a cleric of some eldritch horror), but I feel like I'd get exceedingly bored in combat, with few out-of-combat tricks that aren't schmoozing people with charisma checks.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2018 03:03

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

I was planning on a tiefling, so Devil's Sight isn't as critical (although being able to see through magical darkness is pretty big). I guess I might as well load up on the one-per-day spell effects, so Sculptor of Flesh looks good.

I was eyeing sorcerer, but the party already has one. In spite of that, nobody really acts as the face (the ranger does face things because the sorcerer doesn't want to, and rangers are a bad face), so I was leaning towards a non-sorcerer charisma class. I've never really been enthused by bards, but I can look into it. Not as into their whole schtick.

e: I have really strong stat rolls and was considering grabbing Actor to get my charisma to 20, then just using my pact tome as a fake spellbook to pretend to be a lovely wizard instead of a warlock. I don't really know what the point of that is, but I can figure it out later if I go that route.

Elysiume fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Feb 28, 2018

# ¿ Feb 28, 2018 03:35

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Philthy posted:

They're a fine class. I've got a level 17 pure Warlock. The limited spell slots are not a big deal because you're more of a utility class that helps out in those weird situations that come up. Opening gates and dimension doors, polymorphing people when the healer is wrecked, reading anything and everything at all times, seeing everything, etc. Casting invis at will. Counterspell. Dispell. Feeblemind. Hypnotic pattern, etc. The Eldritch blast is constant damage with +15 to hit and then another 4d12 with Crown of Stars going. You're going to get shown up by cool abilities from other classes, but I've seen entire rounds of people all missing except for myself. You will almost always have slots left to burn at boss encounters, and if it had adds, you can simply banish them with a DC20. A Warlock complaining about short rests hasn't played one enough I'd imagine. I would love a Rod of the Pact Keeper, but not for the extra spell slot. I want the increased DC. True Polymorph is also pretty neat. Ever want to be an adult dragon? Ok. Oh, and Hex is kinda okay too. Extra d6 to all your damage, sureeeee!

I dunno, I've got many high level characters (Fighter, Paladin, Cleric) and the pure Warlock is the most fun. The high charisma skills lets you talk your way through just about anything.

They have the most flavor. I've been playing mine for over two years now with god knows how many hours on him.

Edit: Looked at my log sheet, I've got at least 108 hours played on him.

To clarify regarding short rests, I've never played 5e. I'm used to Pathfinder, where short rests aren't a thing that exists (in most cases), so I have no idea how much 5e pushes them. Even full casters feel weirdly limited coming from Pathfinder. A level 20 PF wizard will have ~53 spells per day, with ~15 at 7th-9th, while a level 20 5e wizard will have 22 spells per day, with 6 at 7th-9th. Expecting casters to spend more time casting damaging cantrips (PF damaging cantrips are awful) and less time casting higher level spells is something I'll have to get used to.

Grabbing some utility spells (Charm Person, Invisibility, Suggestion, Counterspell, Dispel Magic) and decent utility cantrips (Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Minor Illusion) in addition to the required Eldritch Blast should provide a decent amount of well-roundedness. I think I'd be the only one in the party who does rituals (I doubt the sorcerer took the rituals feat, but I'll check), which fills a good out-of-combat niche.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2018 03:14

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Philthy posted:

It really depends how you're playing. My Warlock is Adventure League, so he plays 4-8 hour long sessions that typically have 3 encounters balanced to "challenge" a party of 7 with one of them being a major encounter. One short rest is generally allowed in the session. I've never used all my slots.

In a campaign home brew game, this is entirely dependent on your DM. Most I've played with know how people like to play, and if they saw a player being a Warlock with no spell slots for the session he would probably realize that might be really loving boring for the Warlock unless said Warlock just plays like an idiot and burns everything immediately.

I never got high level in Pathfinder. I believe my Inquisitor made it to 5th or 6th level before I realized I was insane trying to spend more time playing weekly games than my full time game. Which kind of sucks because I flipping love my Inquisitor.

As an aside, has anyone converted it over to 5e? We have a new campaign starting and the DM said he'd entertain a class conversion because how much I told him I liked the class. I mostly like being able to change your "power" on yourself with a free action per turn and how it scales, and then later being able to cast it on 2-3 other people in the party and such. It's just a cool mechanic.

My DM seems pretty chill, so I think I'm going to give it a shot. Inquisitor is super cool, and way up on the list of classes I'd like to play. I haven't found a conversion, but if you find one, I'd be interested in it.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2018 04:40

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Open Marriage Night posted:

How am I just now finding out about the Plane Shift MtG supplements? So freaking cool. I wish they'd do these in print.

Yeah, I was looking at backgrounds and was intrigued to find inquisitor. When I realized it was from Innistrad I assumed it was homebrew, and was surprised to realize that it was official.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2018 20:12

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Reik posted:

I'm considering adding a house rule to my 5e game for attack rolls:

If you do not hit the target's AC but miss by 4 or less, you still hit but they have resistance for the attack. If you miss by 5 or more you still do no damage.

The main goal of his house rule is that having your entire turn be an attack roll that misses sucks. Doing half damage at least allows you to feel like you accomplished something, but having it be bounded by within 4 of the target's AC should prevent characters with a high AC from being punished.

You might want to bump up everyone's AC by 2. If you have a +4 to hit against a 15 AC opponent, you have a 50% chance to hit. Getting another 20% chance to deal 50% damage is effectively a 10% damage bump. If you have a +4 to hit against a 17 AC opponent you have a 40% chance to hit and a 20% chance to deal 50% damage, which works out to overall dealing half of your damage per attack (40% of 1x, 20% of 0.5x), but smoothed out a bit.

That said, it makes having damage resistance worse, since (as far as I know, not super aware of 5e rules) multiple sources of resistance don't stack, so creatures with physical damage resistance would take half damage on both a direct hit and a glancing blow.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2018 21:09

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Or just roll for stats and get a really good roll. :shepface:

# ¿ Mar 1, 2018 21:20

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

mango sentinel posted:

Stat buy with Human, Dragonborn, Halfing, Elf, Half Elf, Aasimar, and maybe some more I can't remember.

~~If paladins can go dex, feral tiefling gets +1 dex, +2 cha.~~ Just kidding they give +1 int, +2 dex.

Elysiume fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Mar 1, 2018

# ¿ Mar 1, 2018 21:35

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Subjunctive posted:

Ah, we do standard array. Hmm. Might still be possible, OK.

14 in cha, 15 in str/dex and half-elf gets you there. 14 in str, 15 in cha gets you there on dragonborn. 14 in dex, 15 in cha gets you there on drow, tabaxi, or lightfoot halfling.

Elysiume fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Mar 1, 2018

# ¿ Mar 1, 2018 21:39

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

How do people feel about Friends? I need another cantrip for my wizard, and while spammable charm is nice, the downside is incredibly bad. Currently have Fire Bolt, Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation, and Thaumaturgy as a tiefling illusion wizard.

e: 18 int, 16 cha if that would affect suggestions. I'm starting at level 6, so I'll probably have 20 int, 16 cha unless I decide something is more enticing than a casting stat ASI.

Elysiume fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Mar 6, 2018

# ¿ Mar 6, 2018 06:05

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Kruller posted:

Can you take Toll the Dead? It's pretty baller for damage.

Yeah, that's on the table. In addition to Fire Bolt, or instead of?

# ¿ Mar 6, 2018 06:29

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Toplowtech posted:

If there are humans or people with no dark vision in your group, you may want to be a good team player and get Light.

There's a dragonborn sorcerer in the party as the only one without darkvision, and she either knows Lights or Dancing Lights. Good call, though. It's weird how prevalent darkvision is in 5e.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2018 09:02

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Kruller posted:

I'd take it in addition, just to have some damage type variety, as well as damage you don't have to roll to hit with.

I definitely see the merit of having both attack roll and save cantrips, but I need to drop either Mage Hand or Prestidigitation if I'm to keep Friends. 5e is so restrictive on cantrips; it's weird.

Elysiume fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Mar 6, 2018

# ¿ Mar 6, 2018 19:36

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Arthil posted:

Well you get more later, generally.

Being able to use Frostbite on my Sunday game was good since the Hobgoblins my party fought had some pretty hefty AC. But lovely stats!

That's true, but 10th level feels so far away. Maybe I'll just punt Mage Hand until then. I have too much trouble wrapping my head around a wizard without Prestidigitation.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2018 22:28

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Darkvision going from "only 2 basic races have darkvision" to "all but 2 basic races have darkvision" is an interesting direction.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2018 23:47

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Razorwired posted:

Is Starfinder good good or Pathfinder good?

Starfinder is bad. And I like Pathfinder.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2018 18:09

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Starfinder streamlines Pathfinder in some ways, such as making flat-footed AC just -2, rather than factoring in the various AC elements differently. It doesn't even come close to the streamlining of 5e, and adds some pointless complexity in other ares. Starship combat is cute but gets boring quickly, the weapons aren't balanced well, and skill checks get harder as you level up because they increase at double the rate at which you level up. Weapons are now a laundry list of same-y weapons. There's some cool stuff in there, but it's buried under junk mechanics, and doesn't have the benefit of the breadth of content that Pathfinder has.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2018 18:45

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

The spells section of the 5e book is significantly worse than 3.P. Not having a short description in the spell lists or which classes can cast it on the spell block just seems like an oversight to me.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2018 19:17

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

mango sentinel posted:

Original is poop. Revised is better.

Seconded

# ¿ Mar 8, 2018 19:25

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Anything that involves having to roll a d4 is inherently bad because d4s are the worst dice.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2018 00:13

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Kaysette posted:

�Act independently� is the issue. Summoner classes should use their action to command the mobs to do some strangely spell-like things (not just attack for pissall damage) then can do some cool fluff thing as a bonus action. At X level let them siphon health from their summons or vice versa. Just don�t bloat the action economy any more in the PC�s favor. Turns take too drat long.

I've had fights (in Pathfinder) where the druid was controlling 5+ summons. It's so bad.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2018 00:53

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

User0015 posted:

The most magical thing we've found so far is a magic item that makes it so we don't spend an hour figuring out how to haul 1300 lbs of water around for two months.

edit - Right now I'm trying to save up 1500g for plate armor. Meanwhile, our wizard got handed an entire book of spells for free. Cool.

You can't prepare spells from someone else's spellbook and it costs time and money to scribe spells into your spellbook. Copying a handful of mid-level spells takes days and costs a couple thousand gold.

quote:

Copying a Spell into the Book. When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a level which you can prepare and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it.

Copying a spell into your spellbook involves reproducing the basic form of the spell, then deciphering the unique system of notation used by the wizard who wrote it. You must practice the spell until you understand the sounds or gestures required, then transcribe it into your spellbook using your own notation.

For each level of the spell, the process takes 2 hours and costs 50 gp. The cost represents material components you expend as you experiment with the spell to master it, as well as the fine inks you need to record it. Once you have spent this time and money, you can prepare the spell just like your other spells.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2018 22:12

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

Wait why is there advantage cancelling? Wouldn't you rule that you both have disadvantage on ranged attacks?

If you can't see them, you have disadvantage to hit them. If they can't see you, you have advantage to hit them. Each person has advantage and disadvantage to hit the other person, so it cancels out.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2018 02:03

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

cargohills posted:

That leads to an obviously nonsense result, which could be entirely prevented by adding this sentence: "When a blind attacker attempts to hit a blind defender, the attacker takes disadvantage on the hit." It's a perfectly reasonable interpretation of the intention of the rules that fits within the purpose of D&D as a game to facilitate a fiction. You wouldn't start rolling a d100 just because there was a misprint in the weapons table. Why not just apply the same logic here?

Some people live and die by RAW. People are always free to house rule it, much like I'd house rule that Fog Cloud et al obscure any line of sight that passes through any amount of the obscured space, rather than just seeing outside to inside (and not the inverse, or trying to see someone on the far side).

# ¿ Mar 10, 2018 02:15

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

Do the rules really say you can keep up with your movement speed when not in the heat of combat? Seems like that should really only be your speed when you're pumped from combat.

Nope. Pages 181-182 in the PHB. You can go 2mph and use stealth, 3mph neutral, or 4mph taking a -5 penalty to passive perception. You can travel like that for 8h per day, after which you need to make a DC 2 + (hours traveled ) constitution check each hour or gain a level of exhaustion (forced march).

Elysiume fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Mar 10, 2018

# ¿ Mar 10, 2018 07:18

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

gradenko_2000 posted:

But if you're not attacking, then you're converting your Action into more movement, which means you're running

Using your action to move is equivalent to jogging. In Pathfinder you can jog (hustle) out of combat, which works like a forced march, exception exhaustion starts to set in after an hour rather than after eight. You can also run for 4x your speed (although out of combat it averages out to a hustle)--is that an option in 5e?

# ¿ Mar 10, 2018 10:17

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Liquid Dinosaur posted:

Would lye or bleach kill an ooze?

RAW? No. Flavor-wise? Oozes are all resistant to acid and are pretty acidic themselves, so dumping lye onto them would probably cause an unpleasant chemical reaction like dumping lye into acid. Unless you had a massive amount of lye it would probably be more of an inconvenience than actually dealing damage, as oozes aren't really smart enough to feel pain. Mixing bleach with an acid can produce chlorine gas or chloramine vapors, which would be more unpleasant for adventurers, who typically need to breathe, unlike oozes.

# ¿ Mar 15, 2018 01:14

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

3.P solved it by making it easier to die.

# ¿ Mar 15, 2018 04:59

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Baronjutter posted:

D&D is weird in that entire races can have general alignments and tainted blood due to ancient pacts with gods and poo poo. Aren't the drow supposed to be evil?

There's a blurb in the PHB that says that basically every drow other than Drizzt is evil.

# ¿ Mar 15, 2018 22:57

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

ProfessorCirno posted:

Bring back that one loving 3.5 "magic item" that removed your sunlight disadvantage that were literally sunglasses.

The 3.5 ones appear to have been way cheaper (although I can't find a non-poo poo source), but I know of Definitely Not Sunglasses from Pathfinder.

# ¿ Mar 16, 2018 09:25

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Panderfringe posted:

Like half of all combat heavy sessions involve me making up rolls on the fly. Like surprise and poo poo. I've written down rules to surprise enemies, so that we at least have some consistency, but there's a whole lot that really should have been included in the rules.

Aren't the rules basically "are you stealthed and they didn't see you? they're surprised. are you not stealthed or they beat your stealth roll? they're not surprised"?

e:

quote:

The DM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the DM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn�t notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.

If you�re surprised, you can�t move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can�t take a reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren�t.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2018 00:55

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

JBP posted:

If I had someone wanted to be a little guy on a dog I'd just use the dog stats for movement and such, but not worry too much about mounted combat rules since they're going to be fighting at eye level with anything man sized anyways.

I'd probably just go with size medium, 30ft move and some flavour around if you move and attack the rider is at disadvantage, but you always get a bite attack as your bonus action.

Mounted combat on a dog mostly means you use your mount's movement and it can't attack. Here are mounted combat rules, here's a breakdown of mounted combat; there are some pros (more mobility, more AoOs) and some cons (mounts can be squishy, if you're hit you might fall off).

# ¿ Mar 20, 2018 01:01

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Razorwired posted:

Find Steed is a thing Paladin get.

~~If you can find a scroll of Find Steed/Greater Find Steed somehow, a tomelock could add it to their book too, I think.~~

Elysiume fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Mar 20, 2018

# ¿ Mar 20, 2018 19:00

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Toplowtech posted:

It's not a ritual so sadly no but you still get more rituals then you ever need.

Huh, I don't know why I thought it was a ritual. Maybe I just remembered the 10 minute casting time and assumed it was a ritual.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2018 19:09

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Farg posted:

I could also summon a bear by using a magic ring that lets me change one letter of a word to cast Fear as Bear but thats mostly it.

Can you add/remove letters, or just change them?

# ¿ Mar 21, 2018 01:34

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Does Gold Person give you the Midas touch, or does it summon a person made out of gold?

# ¿ Mar 21, 2018 04:29

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

How big/heavy is the object?

# ¿ Mar 22, 2018 20:10

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Mage Hand would be my first choice, then. With a wizard and a bard, one of them's gotta know Mage Hand. Is the item fragile enough that being dropped into the maelstrom would destroy it?

Misty Step into the center and back out also works.

How high up is the orb? Stretching a rope taut and having two people hold each end walk past the orb and using the rope to knock the item off should work, again assuming it wouldn't just break.

Elysiume fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Mar 22, 2018

# ¿ Mar 22, 2018 20:42

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 12:13

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

It's inevitable that someone is really mad about any given system and feels the need to petulantly whine about how bad it lest other people have fun.

# ¿ Mar 26, 2018 01:35

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