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iminers posted:Ive been playing valheim since i picked it up two days ago. The main issue here is that it's not meant to be Rust. It's designed to be played co-op with a handful of friends. Edit: I mean the tree physics is still hilarious but it's basically just not designed for standard survival game mentality.
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Feb 8, 2021 12:37
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| # ¿ May 13, 2024 01:47 |
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Conan is better than Ark because without online PVP there's more or less no reason to ride dinosaurs in Ark. We did both with a small group and building in conan has all sorts of little adornments for your base so your adventuring gradually creates an interesting living space whereas all of the buildings in ark have a sole military focus that is completely useless in a PVE environment.
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Feb 22, 2021 08:06
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The thing that I want most from an open world survival game is a sense of NPC society. The main problem with pvp as I see it right now is that the world is entirely lawless. Things like economy and justice are entirely player driven, while often being the better part of the gameplay. Valheim is cool because it just sort of disregards those things. There's no pvp to worry about so the bases can be expansive, natural, and feel lived in. In Ark, despite the awesome dinosaur riding stuff every base is a double layered efficiency box studded with barbed wire and turrets. I haven't played much Conan online but from what I have seen bases are largely the same. Ideally there would be some kind of NPC society/economy that would levy penalties for murder/theft/destruction or at least incentivize leading a "lawful" life. This would equally make things like base raiding and player killing more exciting by adding an element of risk. A good way of approaching this game design is asking "Two players meet each other in an open field, what interactions are available to them?" Often the answer is only immediate combat. Cooperation or even ambivalence are simply not incentivized in any way by the game mechanics.
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Feb 22, 2021 09:28
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One of the better PVP solutions while we were playing Ark was the "Purge Time" system, where you got a couple hours every week to do pvp. This made it very possible to pop on for that time to defend your base and then the rest of the week it was gather and build. It also meant you weren't likely to waste your couple hours raiding every wooden box you could find, but would probably organize for going after the bigger prizes. That kind of ruleset could have a place in improving online PVP and raiding. That server also had an admin store where you could exchange implants for stuff.
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Feb 24, 2021 11:17
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VegasGoat posted:That's my biggest issue with Valheim right now. Everything takes so much to craft. With two players it's even worse, now you need twice as much grind or you have to grind separately and then what's the point of playing together. Also, the constant greydwarf attacks where I can't even spend 5 minutes doing anything in peace is ruining the fun. It does feel that way but remember that once you craft something you never need to do it again, unlike every other game
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Mar 6, 2021 10:05
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Vib Rib posted:Yeah, a ton of survival games don't have primitive means to accomplish common, basic tasks. The example that always comes to mind is a Minecraft modpack (Gregtech: New Horizons) that required machined metal bolts to make any kind of bed or door. At some point I imagine that filling out the bottom layer of a progression means you're less likely or less incentivized to use higher tech means of accomplishing the same thing. And once you have those higher tech means of doing stuff any effort spent on fleshing out the lower tiers is kind of wasted.
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Mar 20, 2021 10:41
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Major Isoor posted:I always just forgot about my nets for ingame weeks at a time before inevitably returning to a full net of rotten fish, like a real survivalist! And that, kids, is how surströmming was invented.
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Apr 27, 2021 11:46
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30.5 Days posted:Honestly, Valheim starts you at that point and I think it's why the game feels so nice. One of the smartest things about valheim imo is how they turned food from a necessity to an enhancement. You absolutely can't realistically survive without eating but the game isn't going to murder you just for not doing it.
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Jun 4, 2021 09:53
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I played some PVE Ark mostly solo (with a couple friends). We got up to taming a Quetz and then stole a dragon egg and everything after that just seems flat and boring. The trouble with ARK is that at the end of the day it's a game about collecting cool toys that you can use to fight other players and if you don't have other players to fight at some point you're gonna realize that.
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Jun 4, 2021 22:30
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I fully thought you guys were talking about Warframe for a minute and it created some weird associations.
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Jul 21, 2021 16:02
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I started playing Rust again after not having played since like launch. It became a pretty cool game at some point. I think there's a lot of good approaches here. Things like having safe zones with NPC stores could go a long way in a lot of other survival games. I guess there's one of those in Valheim but the Rust economy seems more useful and varied. I guess I had written the game off as "The first (and probably worst) one" of a genre I liked after dicking around with the beta.
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Jul 26, 2021 10:23
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Verviticus posted:rust has safe zones with npc stores?? I might just be playing on heavily modded servers, but the ones I've played on so far had like... a horse ranch and a place you could buy boats in exchange for scrap. They were like, protected by turret guns. Edit: Yeah I checked, this is apparently some base game stuff. Honestly, it's something I've wanted to see in a survival game for a while. The main problem that online survival games usually have is that there's no reason not to be insanely hostile to every person you meet immediately. There needs to be something to counterbalance the lawless wilderness with or it's just boring. Spanish Matlock fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Jul 28, 2021 |
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Jul 28, 2021 03:07
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Verviticus posted:i could buy that argument (though i dont agree) but i think the game should provide tools for the players to make that a possibility rather than just be a thing the game hard-enforces with ultra turrets or a damage-free zone or something Yeah I've played on Ark servers where the players had set up like, safe zones and stores and a thriving currency in the form of implants. It was fine but still ultimately useless in the face of one guy who wanted to farm C4 and blow it all up when no one is looking. I mean, the experience of no limits PVP is always going to be exactly the same with nothing to change it. I've played that. It was fun for a while (when you're in a big group). I'm not really interested in doing that again and/or don't have the time or giant clan of goons to make it fun. I've been playing on some modded Rust servers too and I think one other neat thing I've found is servers with kit spawning. Like, you can /kit to grab a couple different packs of items. You can get building materials once a day, a set of primitive armor/bow and arrow once an hour, etc. Again, not going to break anyone's game, but absolutely a great way to smooth out the start of the game and eliminate the punching trees with my dick out phase of the game.
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Jul 31, 2021 07:13
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My main issue with vintage story at the moment is what a pain in the rear end metal is to find. I gather that it spawns in rather large veins so finding one basically sets you for a while but goddamn is it tedious to pan for 20 copper nuggets to make a tool that only lasts 3-4 times as long as a stone one.
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Sep 9, 2021 12:45
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HelloSailorSign posted:Totally. When I started a new world given I'm doing it single player, I doubled the spawn rate of ores and put surface copper and cassiterite up one on their list. I left everything else the same as survival, I felt tree growth, animal numbers/yields, etc. were fine, it's getting metal that's the annoying part particularly with harsh winters. Yeah the other propick mode is a godsend. I've got access to iron, just need to go find some copper to build a tier 2 anvil.
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Sep 13, 2021 15:14
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Zodack posted:My impression of Vintage Story is that you'd want to have the minimap on as well as look up crafting recipes. The minimap especially as searching for essential things like Fire Clay, metals, and Terra Preta can have you ranging pretty far abroad from where-ever your base is. Plus the biome and terrain variance is huge and makes exploration really fun. The one problem with that largely being that the world is big enough that it absolutely needs some kind of travel system. Like, my tin ore mine is almost a day of overland travel away from my base. I built out roads and bridges to my copper mine, which is like half as far away but at some point the travel time just gets oppressive. There are translocators but there needs to be some middle ground between ancient demon tech in a deep cave and plodding around on foot. Horses/carts or hot air balloons or something. I'm hopeful that something will be done about it before it leaves early access though.
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Sep 23, 2021 09:54
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30.5 Days posted:You can go back to space (there's just no reason to), outings are timed (because the servers shut down at the end), and you can upgrade your character. Until now there has been no reason to return to space and no missions that you're ostensibly doing on the ground. They're acting like that changes this weekend, because there are three POIs to visit, spread across the entire map, but it's not clear what you can do there or what you get for doing it or if there's any point. The "mission" still ends at the end of the beta weekend. That's rough because the high concept is really interesting. I was very excited to have a more casual mission-based survival game I could gently caress around with with friends that was more focused on maximizing efficiency in timed runs. That kind of gameplay loop seems like it would make for a fun friday night with beers, rather than Ark or Conan or Valheim "Hey do you guys want to commit to six to eight weeks of constant grinding and basebuilding?"
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Oct 7, 2021 15:04
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Vib Rib posted:Finite skill points that have to be spent equally on aesthetic building options and practical tools is never going to end well. ARK did exactly this, too, and it was terrible. Since corner pieces, slopes, etc. were bought separately, no one would ever use them, because those points could be spent much more wisely. So every building was an ugly cube and half the building options never got used. Having to buy each tier with no way whatsoever to respec, inherit, or "sell back" these investments meant you could just build a character "wrong", and unless you join a massive clan and you're the designated builder nobody is going to want you. I mean another big issue is that Ark fully revolves around getting all your poo poo burned to the ground on the regular so big ugly cubes are way more efficient. I'm more into the PvE options available in Valheim or Conan because it's way more fun building an aesthetically pleasing AND functional base in those games instead of a super efficiency triple walled metal gunbox in Ark.
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Nov 25, 2021 06:10
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Jinnigan posted:yeah but you get the core recipes at, say, 10 points, and aesthetic variations at 1 point, and its easy enough to respec. also building blocks are unlocked in groups and tiers. you unlock normal and corner and sloped buildings together, and then you unlock tier 2 and 3 variants. Yeah it's definitely similar to but better than Ark. The big difference though is that you can play Conan together with friends and just sort of progress through the "story" without the game feeling completely empty and dedicated to pvp. Which means all those aesthetic choices have a function. I have love for the people who play on Ark PvE servers but at some point you absolutely realize that you're just stockpiling resources for a fight that's never coming.
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Nov 26, 2021 06:20
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Vintage story would benefit a lot from tightening up its ore finding system. The thing is that unlike minecraft, once you do find ore there's usually a fuckton of it. Like hundreds of blocks potentially. You absolutely should turn on the extra prospecting pick mode though, unfortunately you'll have to pick a range and can only reset it on restart but I find that a six block radius is pretty good for figuring out where stuff is. Also since ore tends to spawn in 1-2 block high flat disks you should generally dig straight shafts down, branch out and dig more straight shafts down. Which is also actually kind of cool. It makes a mine kind of just another thing that you're building in a weirdly satisfying way.
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Dec 12, 2021 13:25
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Yeah I fully had the little copper rocks in mine but they weren't common enough to be a source of copper for smelting or anything. Honestly I think a sluice block of some kind would make that part of the game a lot better and provide a medium step between scrounging for tools and full on mining. It would make sense with the progression too, because you'd really want it about the time you had your saw and wooden planks ready
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Dec 12, 2021 20:01
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:You can't get a saw without a considerable supply of copper (or trading if you get lucky I guess, but I wouldn't count on that). Anything gated behind forging isn't really going to help you bootstrap out of the stone age. I mean you need like 200 copper units to build a prospecting pick and regular pick, which would almost guarantee finding a copper vein, which almost certainly gets you to a saw. It's less about bootstrapping out of the stone age, that can almost certainly be done with panning alone for just those two things, and you can get a relatively nice, relatively safe primitive house set up with just stone tools after all. It's just that it would be nice to have a semi-automatable copper/tin/whatever else comes from panning operation while you're out searching for the rarer metals.
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Dec 13, 2021 07:57
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:You don't need a propick until you're trying to get bronze, by the time you've accumulated 40 copper nuggets you know where more copper is or you know it isn't in your local area and have fully committed to wasting your own time mining for it where you are regardless. In the latter case, why would the game take that away from you Sometimes setting up timers to do things before you go out to do other things is part of the survival game experience and provides the good brain chemicals and can be described as part of an "engaging loop". Or I dunno just play creative mode games are dumb and no one should play them I guess.
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Dec 14, 2021 00:56
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My biggest issue playing vintage story was the lack of travel options other than running. There's a few promising travel mods and that one guy who fully redid the movement system to include mantling and crawling and stuff. I hope they do some robust mod folding at some point, because even as a very young game there has been some really excellent modding going on.
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Dec 14, 2021 06:24
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Umbreon posted:This is mine too. The massive world is cool and all, but it takes so long to explore and find anything. It took me almost 45 minutes in flying around in creative mode before I finally found some limestone, I don't even want to think how long that would have taken if I didn't fly. There are like teleporters and poo poo apparently but I've never found one. I'm optimistic that development will continue in cool directions and excited to come back and see what's up in like a year.
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Dec 14, 2021 09:57
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So I picked up medieval dynasty on sale and I have to say I'm enjoying the fact that you just build whole rear end buildings that come pre-equipped with stuff. I think it's a good idea that I'd kind of like to see implemented in mp survival, since everyone sort of builds the same kind of optimized bullshit at the end of the day anyway, and I think this could be a really viable alternative to speed up some parts of your standard survival game that kind of lag for little benefit. There's a lot of interesting potential here so far and I'm looking forward to seeing where these guys go next.
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Dec 24, 2021 06:10
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Vib Rib posted:I know mining and prospecting advice for Vintage Story has been posted here quite a few times, but I'm having trouble digging it up. Whatever the bottom line is, or whatever the common approach is, I'm trying to convince a friend to give it a shot and he's still daunted from playing TFC. All I really remember is that you should turn on the easy chunk prospecting mode option at worldgen. Turn on the actual prospecting mode for sure. Come into it with the idea that ore is hard to find but when you do find it there will be tons of it. Build like an actual mine with exploration tunnels and shafts. A single deposit of a given ore will last you for ages.
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Jan 22, 2022 15:50
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Vib Rib posted:That's pretty cool, and would be a genuinely tempting way to play if 90% of all my deaths hadn't been from wolves. They give little to no warning if you just bumble into one over a hill or something, they run as fast as me (or faster), and I've run for a long time and not had them give up the hunt. Those bastards don't seem to de-aggro. Also they kill me in literally two hits. Drifters are annoying, but more easily avoided or ignored. Wolves are just terrible. This will change your life: Water. Water is the secret to killing everything. Everything sucks at swimming and you can just swim slightly farther away than it can bite/punch you and stab it to death. My first move when a wolf shows up is to immediately head straight for the nearest pond. Of course, before I found that out I always kept a wolf pit outside my house so I could lead the stupid fuckers into it and stab them to death there. The growing collection of wolf bones adds character to any settlement.
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Jan 25, 2022 13:51
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Pie making is enormous for food too. Once you can get some real grain farming going you can make all sorts of stuff into pie, which fills you up super well and lets you get a variety of nutrients.
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Jan 26, 2022 07:48
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LegoMan posted:OK what if, and hear me out, there's a collab with the Subnautica devs and the planet you're terraforming in Planet Crafter goes horribly wrong and floods and we have a Subnautica Prequel! If I recall correctly the Subnautica devs are basically at "Boy we sure are glad everyone enjoyed these two subnautica games but please don't make us make any more subnautica games"
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Apr 10, 2022 08:18
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Yeah I mean servers are ridiculously cheap nowadays. I basically host something new every couple months (valheim, minecraft, vintage story, etc.) then we play until we get bored. It's wildly convenient.
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Apr 25, 2022 16:22
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The in world crafting in vintage story is what sets it apart from its competitors, honestly. It makes you realize how handwaved crafting is in almost every other game. It doesn't necessarily feel as good to hew your 50th stone hatchet out of a rock as it does for your first, but each new tier of building stuff feels pretty great the first time you do it.
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May 3, 2022 10:52
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Yeah, I think that the drifters right now feel very much like a placeholder. Like they needed 'an enemy' while they sorted out all the progression and crafting and whatnot. Minecraft-like games have always had the problem of boring combat, though. There's just only so much you can do with enemy AI in a world of aribtrary blocks.
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May 3, 2022 13:26
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:Space Engineers is also arbitrary blocks, you can have combat and enemies look like pretty much whatever you feel like. They just made the (correct) decision to prioritize development time for pinch pottery and tree propagation over the thing 150000 other games already do as well as they ever could I mean that's kind of apples and hand grenades.
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May 4, 2022 08:25
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Just going to Chime in and say that as someone who played most of Subnautica and all of Below Zero, I actually liked below zero quite a bit more.
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May 16, 2022 09:02
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Below Zero didn't have a super well-developed land section, to be fair. It was probably in some way COVID-related and kind of feels like an afterthought. I really liked several of the underwater biomes, though, and I thought at least a few of the new leviathans were very charming.
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May 16, 2022 10:36
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Demiurge4 posted:My impression is that the Valheim devs fell prey to the usual EA success fallacy. They made a ton of money and started hiring a ton of people, then had to spend a year training those people and doing various admin related stuff which has culminated in not much at all being released. I'd say it's 50/50 if they release a huge content pack or fold up, but they've spent a ton of money and probably have already sold most of the copies they ever will. Having played Valheim all the way up to the last implemented boss, I honestly think it would have been great if they just capped off the game (which was honestly an exceptionally fun, multi-hour journey well worth the price of admission) and said "Valheim 2 coming out in a couple of years. See you later, vikings."
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May 17, 2022 09:58
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I'm honestly more intersted in seeing how Valheim affects the future of the genre. They made a lot of smart choices like not trying to be hyper-realistic and focusing on actual gameplay mechanics. Free repair for structures and weapons and not having weapons break and need to be replaced was also an excellent choice. Actually I think just that in general lead to me having way more fun with Valheim because instead of making a 600th metal axe or repairing my decaying base I could devote those resources to building all kinds of other poo poo like roads and waystations and docks and encampments in other parts of the world. Also building in teleportation as fast travel and restricting metal to overland travel was also an actually interesting idea that made the game way more fun, compared to other games in the genre where those kinds of things are usually top tech tier items that 90% of casual players never even see.
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May 17, 2022 10:32
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moonmazed posted:you're being very aggressive about this game I mean I get it. I'm looking at video of a game that looks very much like diablo and people are telling me its a survival game and that certainly triggers a significant amount of "get the gently caress off my porch you kids" reflex, but I'm not in here posting about it. It's hard for me to fit what's going on in the videos to "survival game" in my head.
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May 18, 2022 13:09
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| # ¿ May 13, 2024 01:47 |
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MonkeyforaHead posted:I've spent a little while on Vintage Story now, getting into autumn, and I'm generally enjoying it but holy poo poo I'm not sure if my worldgen is just particularly hosed or what. No flax anywhere. My entire surface rock layer is granite. Just, granite, sprinting multiple days out in any direction, granite and more granite. No lime to be able to treat hides with, and then trying to find any metal besides surface copper deposits is the most miserable, fruitless experience even with the mod that keeps permanent per-chunk records of everything you've prospected on the map. None of my caves lead to anything interesting whatsoever besides death, I've gone through a propick and a half with nothing to show for it except one potential zinc deposit underneath a loving lake, there's nothing I can make decent armor with, no traders who buy or sell anything I can make or want. Yeah sounds like you got a bit hosed on worldgen. I'd say just up and leave in a direction until you find something better or regen.
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Jun 14, 2022 04:48
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