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Kyrie eleison posted:The reason Christ matters more than anything else, and is in fact the only thing that matters, is that he is the only hope for your salvation. Any attempt to save yourself which involves ignoring or bypassing or otherwise denying Christ is going to fail, and is in truth the work of the Devil, designed to condemn men's souls to the eternal fires of Hell. Oh god, its you again. So I have a question about the above. Why should I worship a god who arbitrarily condemns large swaths of humanity to eternal damnation, pain and suffering largely on the basis of chance. Because lets be honest, if god exists and you only avoid hell by worshiping him properly, then god is punishing people on the basis of the uterine lottery. The typical example of this is the tibetan goat herder who lives high in the mountains. He spends his entire life living what even Jesus would consider to be a humble existence considerate of others, then at the age of thirty he falls off a cliff and dies without ever having heard the name of Christ and thus not accepting him as his savior, maybe he worships buddah. Does he go to hell for not being baptized? If he does, why should I worship a god that is, quite frankly, malevolent at best? If you argue that "Well he didn't hear of Jesus but knew him in his heart... blah blah blah" then how about muslims? There are approximately 1.6 Billion muslims the world over, and just as with Christianity, the single biggest indicator of whether someone will be religious in their life, is whether or not they are born into a religious culture. If you are born as a muslim in many parts of the world you are unlikely to have many encounters with christianity, you will have been told it is a false religion and the might very well end up suffering greatly if you actually do convert. By contrast, someone born in the southern american states will often be expected by their family to adopt their religion, they'll be put into schools that drill the 'correct' dogma and so forth. So why should I worship a god that condemns 1.6 Billion humans to the eternal fires of hell based solely on the accident of their birth. I was born into a family that was virulently anti-religion, and I've never taken to church at all. Did god just hate me in advance and that is why he put me into this family? I'm supposed to worship a creator that appears to hate me and those who are like me from before I was even born. That is pretty hosed up.
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Nov 16, 2014 18:34
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Kyrie eleison posted:Christ, in the fullness of his wisdom, will treat all people fairly and justly in the final judgment. God is fully aware of relative circumstance, and may judge a loyal believer more harshly for a small crime, whereas a great sinner may be loved for his small good works. Those who know of Christ, but spread evil lies about him, such as denying his crucifixion, insult him; but perhaps in his mercy he might forgive them, as he forgave his killers on the cross, saying, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." I believe it is wisest that those who know of Christ be baptized and live Christian lives rather than simply hope for mercy, which abuses God's good will, and may be viewed by him as undeserving of forgiveness. Personally, I am concerned about the safekeeping of my soul. Wow, less than a page and you're contradicting yourself. Here is what you said in your OP: quote:The reason Christ matters more than anything else, and is in fact the only thing that matters, is that he is the only hope for your salvation. Any attempt to save yourself which involves ignoring or bypassing or otherwise denying Christ is going to fail, and is in truth the work of the Devil, designed to condemn men's souls to the eternal fires of Hell. I've bolded the important part in each post. The suggestion in your reply is that if I am a good man then you believe I can still end up in heaven by virtue of the forgiveness of god. Your initial post however clearly states that if I attempt to save myself by any method that ignores, bypasses or otherwise denies christ it is going to fail. So if I am a muslim who lives a good, pious life but still deny that Christ is the child of god, according to you I am going to end up in hell, but I am also likely to be forgiven by god. So I'm confused. More important to this I think is the arbitrary nature of god as you're discussing him. Will I end up in heaven? Maybe, depends on what god's mood is that day I suppose. I personally like to think I live a decent life. I'm not a great man, I'm not a bad man. If god thinks that this life, which I am destined to live by virtue of his omnipotence, is worth of sending me to hell then I guess I'm going to hell. I certainly have no desire to worship some great creator who thinks that eternal damnation is an appropriate punishment for quirks of personality or fate.
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Nov 16, 2014 19:44
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CommieGIR posted:Nothing like a creator that damns you to hell for the very choices he presents you. Yeah, that is basically my view on it. When I was young a friend of mine committed suicide after she had a miscarriage. If you would say that an unwed pregnant teenager who killed herself would probably end up in hell, then I'd simply say that god is some malicious force no different from an abusive parent on a universal scale. I can appreciate talk of religion, but the idea of hell is so absurd next to the idea of a loving god that I can't take someone like Kyrie as anything more than a delusional lunatic.
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Nov 16, 2014 19:54
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Kyrie eleison posted:I can tell you the real answer, but you probably won't like it. God regularly condemns entire peoples and uses other peoples to wipe them out. This scenario effectively plays out in reverse later when the Kingdom of Israel is totally destroyed by neighboring kingdoms, who are believed to be acting as agents of God to punish Israel. There's methods people use to hand-wave this stuff, but it's there and it's a recurring theme throughout the OT, so I'll just tell you the truth about it.  Pictured: Kyrie's Interpretation of God.
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Nov 17, 2014 18:51
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Nessus posted:I think I've found your problem here, you've confused God with someone else entirely, namely Darkseid. It is poo poo like this that makes me a worshiper of Sithrak:  At least I have some certainty in my life. Or do I?! quote:We are talking about the Creator of the Universe here. The being who gave you life and everything you have in it. Who knows your heart and your fate. A person who you are supposed to supplicate yourself before and worship and give offerings to, to pray to and do penance for. He is your master and your Lord. You are his slave. Dictators are merely ash compared to him. Jokes aside, do you really not realize how hosed up this is Kyrie? I'm really tempted to believe you are a troll solely because of this post. Your entire arguments seems to be that god really, really loves me, but that he is also an unbridled dicator above while all human tyrants are petty and insignificant. He will condemn me to eternal torture, indeed he already has either condemned me to eternal torture based on choices that he somehow already knows I will make but which I will make totally of my own, non-destined free will. I just can't reconcile that. There are plenty of groups of christians that I can get along with, but any group that believes that there is some universal deity that loves me unconditionally but will see me burn for eternity is so hosed up that I can't even really put it into words. I honestly would believe in the gibbering one before I'd believe in your version of god. Caros fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Dec 1, 2014 |
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Dec 1, 2014 03:10
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Miltank posted:What moral teachings do you think it is necessary to be learned and what morals are natural? I don't deny that humans have a natural empathy for those within their immediate community, but that has always seemed useless as a basis for what we would consider morality. Humans obviously don't need learned morality to keep them from say, murdering those around them- their family or immediate community. That natural empathy doesn't seem to extend to those outside the limits of people within one's community though. Morality is nothing more than social conventions designed around monkey behavior. We have a taboo against murder because murdering within social groups disrupted them, and groups that prohibited murder were more successful than ones that allowed it. Morality (in my view) is largely an evolutionary process based entirely upon the agreement of people in regards to social behavior. This is why a couple centuries back slavery was a-okay but it is now utterly abhorent, moral attitudes towards slavery shifted over time. Any argument for the logical basis of morality has less to do with proving a logically objective or 'natural' morality than it does with trying to codify existing social behaviors. The social contract for example, was not something that people designed and used to build a society, but is a way of explaining the behavior of the society and morality that organically developed over time. quote:Well then he should probably come down here to make that clear since I've never once in my life felt like that was A Thing. Pretty much. I'm probably going to end up in hell because I was born into a household that was firmly anti-religious, which means that I've never been able to really 'get' religious services in general. I attended Easter Mass once with my wife and felt nothing but an incredibly profound sense of boredom. Thanks for the eternal damnation for something more or less out of my control!
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Dec 1, 2014 03:22
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Miltank posted:I'm not sure I agree with this but I'll just accept it for the sake of the argument. What I want to know is your basis for 'reasonably having power'. This has always been my hangup on atheist morality- there is no commitment to acting unreasonably. Do you understand what I mean by this? Having the ability to do so in a way that does not negatively affect their own standard of living. That'd be my guess anyways.
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Dec 1, 2014 04:03
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Cnut the Great posted:Assuming for the moment that Hell is actually real, this is an extraordinarily dumb position to take. Think about what Hell is, man. Just obey the petty tyrant, for gently caress's sake. Civil disobedience obviously won't work on the omnipotent creator of the universe, so why bother? Spite is a powerful emotion that has made people do plenty of stupid poo poo. There are plenty of examples of people refusing to give up in the direct face of certain death, so its hardly surprising. Alternately, God made him that way.
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Dec 1, 2014 04:34
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Cnut the Great posted:It just seems so arbitrary. Kyrie eleison is right about one thing: If God actually exists, then he gets to decide what is "right" and what is "wrong." I don't know how you could possibly argue against that notion. You might have your own subjective system of morality, but you would be wrong. Who do you think created that subjective system of morality? Obviously, God did. And yes, for some unfathomable reason, he created you in such a way that you found that subjective system of morality worth suffering for in an eternal Hell, for no gain. But it still makes no sense to say that the guy who created the very concept of "wrong" is wrong about what "wrong" is. I've always found the fact that god decides what is right and wrong to be sort of funny in and of itself. If God says something is right or wrong, either its a subjective decision based on what God has decided is right or wrong, or... what, there is an Ur-God that passed down morality onto him? But if God just decides what is right and wrong then it really isn't objective, its just subjective morality imposed by the guy with the universally biggest stick.
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Dec 1, 2014 04:56
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Ernie Muppari posted:Well, even without taking into account the house rules of any particular Christian denomination, it still seems hella' shady. If god really existed, and the relationship between myself and him was actually as ridiculously lopsided as most argumentative internet Christians make it out to be, then why exactly would I take god at its word that there's even an afterlife? For all we know god is actually what he claims the devil to be. Live out the good virtuous mormon life and you get an eternity of that in heaven. Spend your life coked up and banging sexy broads and you can get past the velvet rope into the eternal party. I just find it difficult to believe that thousands of years ago God revealed himself to a relatively small group of people outside the main focus of human civilization at the time, died, and then just assumes I'll believe the stories two thousand years later. And if I don't believe those stories, I go to eternal torment.
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Dec 1, 2014 05:09
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Dec 1, 2014 05:25
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Miltank posted:I wouldn't claim to. Just that they will never find a rationalization for morality, and that morality of the "reasonable effort" is basically no morality at all. By contrast your morality can be boiled down to "I don't kill people because the invisible sky man said something bad will happen to me if I do." That is a child's morality. Are you really moral if you only do something because you fear punishment or desire reward?
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Dec 1, 2014 05:39
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Kyrie eleison posted:Allow me to cut through the confusion once again. Do not debate and discuss within this thread in the debate and discussion subforum! Accept my premise upfront because I am clearly right! All hail Darksied! VitalSigns posted:Come back when you've read all of mises.org I have to say, the similarities to the libertarian thread is actually quite startling to me. Caros fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Dec 1, 2014 |
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Dec 1, 2014 22:26
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steinrokkan posted:If people come to the libertarian threads posting "BITCOIN, AM I RIGHT ANYWAY WHATS LIBERTARIANISM GUYS" while other posters are trying to talk about Nozick (I doubt about that, but I'll give them some credit), the libertarians are quite justified in telling those people to read up on the topic that is the subject on the thread. No, the connection is that you both make smug statements that you are correct, and that you can only be proven incorrect after reading this mountain of 'evidence' that will surely sway you to their side. What do you mean you don't want to read this evidence? Well clearly then you just aren't open to the terms of the debate, and I don't have to even pretend to acknowledge all of the many, many flaws that are being pointed out in my argument. That's you. You are the Jrodefeld Jr. of this thread. You have the same self satisfied smugness about how right you are, but you lack the ability to provide any evidentiary backing for what you say. Kyrie on the other hand is the Shiranaihito of this thread, a raving lunatic who comes in and screams about how everyone who disagrees with him is a troll, idiot or in this case, going to hell.
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Dec 1, 2014 22:44
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Kyrie eleison posted:And they will burn in Hell forever. I thought you couldn't speak for God when it came to who would and would not burn in hell. Seems to me you're speaking out of turn little lunatic.
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Dec 2, 2014 01:26
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Kyrie eleison posted:It is a basic teaching that Satan and his angels are in Hell and wish to drag souls to Hell. But you can't say for certain that people who follow Satan will go to hell. You can guess but you really shouldn't speak for your lord. Tsk tsk.
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Dec 2, 2014 01:37
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DrProsek posted:But you claim God will never let any of them out of Hell. Are you a prophet? Because the only way you could know God will never forgive a person is if you have spoken to God and he told you, or are yourself God. Or because a book told him. A book written by people who were also not god, but who were divinely inspired, really, we promise we aren't making this up!
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Dec 2, 2014 01:43
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Effectronica posted:No, they didn't. The Golden Calf is an idol representing God in East Semitic style as a bull. The Bronze Serpent isn't considered an idol until centuries after its use. Exodus is also metaphorical and not very historical. The worship of Phoenician and Philistine deities was performed by people who thought of YHVH as just one god among many, and who had no direct experience with the divine. Nobody actually has any proof of God as the creator of the universe except on his say-so in the Bible. The bible which, by your own admission here, is unreliable as all gently caress. Parts of it are metaphorical, or maybe not. Parts are apocryphal, or maybe not. Maybe you're supposed to stone gays to death... or maybe not. For an all powerful creator who is going to sentence me to eternal torment for failing to follow his laws, God is kind of a dick for not even making clear what exactly is real and what is not. Edit: For fucksake, the Ten Commandments appear in Exodus. Am I suppose to obey those? Or are they just part of the metaphor? Caros fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 03:04
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Effectronica posted:Hold on. God did not write the Bible. Nobody with any knowledge at all believes that anything besides possibly the very first part of Genesis could have been divinely transmitted, and most people who study the Bible know that those sections were also written by people. But that part is also written by men. So how do we know that part isn't simply Apocryphal? We're already accepting that large parts of the bible are metaphorical or simply outright untrue, why should we believe this specific section or quotation has any more significant providence than any other. Maybe Jesus actually meant to say that you should go out and gently caress your neighbor whenever possible just like you jerk off. Maybe Jesus was secretly emo and was all like "Love your neighbor like you love yourself... not at all!". Maybe that whole section was made up out of whole cloth after the fact because it sounded like a good message. I wasn't actually stating that God wrote the bible, but rather working with the assumption that it had to have been divinely inspired if we're taking it seriously as the only path to salvation for the souls of humanity. If you want to argue that it's just a book written by men, then what makes it any different than any number of other books written by men.
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Dec 2, 2014 03:19
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Ernie Muppari posted:yeah i don't think ancient gross old men really cared about hashing that out Not like it'd matter. God would just have to give her some sheep, or cut off her husband's foot or something after the rape and it would all be kosher.
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Dec 2, 2014 03:21
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Effectronica posted:Many things are possible, but some possibilities are jackassy. Aesthetics? I know there are plenty of people who think War and Peace is utter garbage, but that Star Trek novel #475 is the poo poo. What exactly does this have to do with anything? Are you arguing that the part you quoted is somehow more relevant than Exodus because it is better written? Or that you just prefer the message it sends. I mean that is an okay thing to take away, but I don't see how that means that the Parable of the Good Samaritan is somehow more reliable than Moses bringing down the Ten Commandments.
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Dec 2, 2014 03:25
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Effectronica posted:The first sentence is really all you needed to write. No, I'm pointing out to you that your entire argument is resting on the belief that you can ignore some parts of the text, reinterpret others, call still others nothing but metaphor because all of it was written by human beings with little to no divine inspiration. As far as I can tell your argument is that you know which parts of the bible are 'right' because they are the ones that appeal most to you personally. This quote about Jesus is really important, but that whole Moses story, eh, probably mostly made up. You have absolutely nothing to base your sectioning of the book off of apart from your own feelings. And this is the word of god that is the only salvation for mankind, a book that is so disjointed that you pretty much take away what you want from it, whether it be love your neighbor like you love yourself, Or stone the gently caress out of those gay people over there. God has done a lovely job revealing himself to humanity in any way that will save people from eternal torment. Kyrie eleison posted:Some more on the Devil. That's some pretty decent fiction you've got there. I'm more partial to the Constantine take on things tho. Maybe spawn.
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Dec 2, 2014 03:33
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Effectronica posted:You can interpret these texts through textual and historical analysis. The Moses story is mostly made up because there is no evidence of a mass migration to Egypt from Canaan or from Egypt into the Sinai for an extended period of time and then into Canaan. If the Exodus records anything, it preserves a period when the Israelites abandoned urban life for nomadic life to escape Egyptian dominion. However, the moral aspects like the Ten Commandments and the Leviticus laws are relevant to the beliefs of the Israelites and to the text as a whole even if the story around them is metaphorical. Considering there is plenty of reason to disbelieve the existence of Jesus himself as anything more than a collection of myths I'd say there is plenty of reason to believe that the story of him saying "Love ty Neighbor as thyself" is up there in contention. And of course even if you acknowledge the existence of Jesus, you then have to go beyond the fact that he was very likely just one more person claiming to know of the divine. Albeit one with a message that happened to resonate particularly well.
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Dec 2, 2014 03:51
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Effectronica posted:I'm not a Christian. I think I should put that in a gigantic sig. So why are you defending this? quote:Nice dancing around. There's actually not much reason to disbelieve the existence of a man named Joshua bar-Joseph, a carpenter from Galilee, who was crucified by Pontius Pilate, prefect of Judaea, as a revolutionary and insurrectionist, at least any more than any other person known from a handful of references. Titus Pullo and Lucius Vorenus clearly also are unlikely to have existed, only being known from the writings of Julius Caesar. Some guy with a similar name was crucified by a man depicted in the bible. Whew, glad we got that out of the way. That makes it incredibly likely that things he was quoted as saying actually happened and were divinely inspired instead of just being one more thing made up whole cloth or misinterpreted into the bible. It goes back to my initial point that we really can't trust poo poo in the bible. The only source for our knowledge of divine salvation is a book that is factually sketchy at best. Joshua bar-Joseph becomes Jesus within a handful of years, which name should I even be worshiping?
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Dec 2, 2014 04:08
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Effectronica posted:Why not? Because it's pointless and makes you look like an obnoxious rear end in a top hat?  quote:That's his actual name. Jesus is the Greek form of the Hebrew Joshua. Really, you're an idiot. I'm commenting on the fact that we call Jesus by a name that doesn't sound remotely like what he would have actually been called in his own time. I understand it is effectively a lost in translation error, that was sort of my point, that the bible is so loving unreliable that it ends up with a name for its lord and savior that is not even close to what people actually called him. JEE-zuss, Ye-hoh-SHUU-ah.
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Dec 2, 2014 04:18
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zeal posted:man you had me going for a while there this is a quality troll He lost me the other day when he said that we are all slaves to god, the greatest tyrant that will ever be.
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Dec 2, 2014 06:14
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Nintendo Kid posted:Like which of the Gospels say? Most of them describe it differently. Answer the loving question.
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Dec 2, 2014 20:14
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Nintendo Kid posted:He needs to actually clarify which account he's talking about, given that they are different stories. Any of them?
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Dec 2, 2014 20:18
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Mr. Wiggles posted:Much like we have lawyers to help us understand things like the CFR, there are cannon lawyers to help us understand the things in the Catechism. If you're interested enough, it's even a career path you can follow! But the layman has, in fact, probably not spent enough time studying things to understand them very well. Which is how you end up with people (some in this very thread!) who insist on a literal reading of the Bible. I for one sure am glad that God decided to make the only record of his existence on earth come in the form of a document that is so convoluted that it cannot be really understood by a Layman. Because you wouldn't want to make the only path to salvation... you know... attainable for the layman. quote:Why do you think it should be possible to understand the mind of God? He isn't... he's claiming that its stupid as gently caress that the bible is our primary source for knowledge about god but is so poorly written that it even trying to differentiate the parts that are true from the parts that are made up is a career in and of itself. God sure loves lying to people. Caros fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 22:28
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Mr. Wiggles posted:What is this nonsense? Who do you think you're arguing with? This ain't the Evangelical Hour here, bub. ... so, are you Wolverine or something? Who the gently caress says bub? And it was a typo, I meant to say that it cannot at all be understood by a layman.
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Dec 2, 2014 22:33
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steinrokkan posted:Lots of people have problem with this because they think that Christianity is something that should be kept on the periphery of their lives and just sort of passively grant them salvation. I'm pretty sure that the issue of convoluted messages becomes much less acute if you do what the faith really demands of you, which is to sacrifice your entire life and every waking moment to living and learning its teachings. So the bible is intentionally full of lies and misinformation to make it really, really difficult for anyone to follow its message and fully commit themselves to god and be saved? I suppose the follow up question to that is, do you expect everyone to starve to death? If being a good christian means devoting yourself to the bible as a career, to "sacrifice your entire life and every waking moment to living and learning its teachings" then thats... kinda hosed up. I mean if everyone did what god wanted them to do and devoted themselves to nothing but following the message of the bible, that is pretty much a suicide pact isn't it? No time for growing food, or making medicine, or really in any way improving life here on earth. Or are there a set number of people who are just expected to be damned so that everyone else can properly worship. Thanks atheist farmer Steve, your sacrifice allows us all to worship god, pity you'll end up in hell for being ignorent of the bible. I know this is sort of an overstatement, but I really don't think you've considered what it means to 'sacrifice your entire life and every waking moment to living and learning its teachings.'
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Dec 2, 2014 22:40
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Kyrie eleison posted:The sheer lack of self-awareness necessary to post this at somebody else to condemn them. A favorite tactic by your lot, who reject the man's moral authority in the first place. Clearly, you haven't been spending time doing anything of good value, you've just been spreading your sickening interpretation of religion. Want to make Jesus happy, go out and do good things for your fellow man instead of trying to scare them by telling them that god will make them suffer forever. Kyrie eleison posted:I will not accept it, because it is wrong and against the traditional teaching. We have already discussed this fully. Go needle someone else. Or in Mary's case to be 'entrusted' to someone else because despite being the mother of God she was still very much someone else's property. Caros fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Dec 8, 2014 |
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Dec 8, 2014 04:22
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Kyrie eleison posted:Actually, no. Jesus commands us to preach the gospel, and that is what I am doing. You, on the other hand, reject it. If I had to guess, I think JC would come down on my side in this battle. I know that somehow, in your bizarro world, he would favor you, but I am clearly the one advocating for Jesus, his Church, and his message, here. Yet I'm the one who spends twenty hours a week helping at homeless shelters and the food bank.  "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works." James 2:14-26 ESV Caros fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Dec 8, 2014 |
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Dec 8, 2014 04:37
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While I'm at this I'm going to put up a few biblical quotes that I think are pretty important.Matthew 15:8-9 posted:"‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’” James 2:14-26, in case you missed my edit posted:"What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works." 1 Corinthians 13:13 posted:So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love. I'd thought the question rather implicit earlier, but I'm curious. Kyrie, do you actually perform any good works other than proselytizing your faith?
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Dec 8, 2014 04:47
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quote:And by posting this, you have received your reward. Congratulations. I'm not intending to brag, but to shame you. You sing the high praises of your faith but I suspect that you don't follow through where it matters. You talk the talk but don't walk the walk as well as a morally bankrupt atheist. Of course while we're talking about arrogance and your argumentative style... Proverbs 27:2 posted:Let another praise you, and not your own mouth; a stranger, and not your own lips. Timothy 2:24 posted:And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil. James 3:17 posted:But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere. I especially like the second one seeing as you've been a massive rear end in a top hat for large parts of this thread. quote:Yes. Such as? I'm not asking you to brag by the way, I'm curious because I really don't believe you.
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Dec 8, 2014 04:59
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Kyrie eleison posted:Shut up, hypocrite. I don't need you to shame me. Shame on you, for acting like that is your role here, for making presumptions about my good works, for using your own good works to try to shame others. Pathetic. Like I said, you have received your reward for your charity. Timothy 2:24 posted:And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil. Biblical scholar and true follower of Christ ladies and gentlemen. What I enjoy about this post is how much it clearly bothers you. You're less charitable than me, aren't you? For all your bluster you actually give less of a poo poo about taking care of your fellow man than some heathen atheist. That is fantastic. You are right tho, I have recieved the reward for my charity, which is nothing. Charity given in search of a reward isn't really charity is it? Somehow I suspect that you view any charity you do engage in as part of your biblical subway stamp card to the afterlife. Caros fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Dec 8, 2014 |
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Dec 8, 2014 05:01
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Kyrie eleison posted:You still aren't getting it, are you? You still aren't getting it, are you? I don't believe in heaven, at all. The only reason I am bringing up my charity was as a contrast to the fact that you, the religious man, do little to nothing for your fellow man beyond simply screaming at random passerby in an attempt to convert them to your faith. While I will happily admit that I'm proud that I am able to devote time to people that need help, I'm not at all doing it to get into God's good graces because that would be sort of a contradictory point even if he did exist. Doing charity for a reward in the afterlife is not charity, its just deferred payment. Good job ignoring the biblical quote that points out how you shouldn't be a huge rear end in a top hat by the way, hey have one more. quote:Judge not, that ye be not judged. Caros fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Dec 8, 2014 |
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Dec 8, 2014 05:10
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Out of curiosity, Kyrie, has it occured to you that your vile argumentative style wherein you insult vast swaths of people and tell them they are going to suffer for eternity is counterproductive? I mean, even ignoring biblical quotes that ask you to be gentle with people who do not believe, there isn't a single person in this thread who is swayed by your arguments. You are, in fact, actively turning people way from your point of view by way of your zealous nature. I personally, have had my view of the Catholic church vastly improved by Pope Francis because he is a humble, gentle man who lives by the actual actions of the man and god he purports to worship. If I were ever going to be swayed into attending a religious ceremony, or being converted, It would be by the style of someone like Pope Francis. So are you really doing anything good by 'spreading the word' in the fashion you have chosen? The whole point of preaching the gospel is to save people, and you are actively driving people away from god. Does that concern you?
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Dec 8, 2014 05:16
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Kyrie eleison posted:Does it concern you that you are turning people away from atheism? Not at all, even if this were true, why would it? If people find happiness in religion all the more power to them and yet more power if it turns out that god actually does exist. I'm agnostic, I believe in the great 'What if?' If religion brings someone peace and keeps them from killing themselves, like it apparently did with you, then good for you. Now how about you do some introspection and actually answer the question. Because unlike your scathing rebuttal, my statement is based in actual fact. There isn't a person in this thread who has expressed any interest in what you've been selling, and there are plenty of people who are actively hostile towards you. Since you are speaking as a catholic, people who have a bad opinion of you are going to have their opinions lowered, however slightly, towards what you believe is the one true path to salvation. Through your method of argument you are not only failing to bring people into the arms of Christ, but you may in fact actively be working in the service of Satan, unwittingly though it may be. You are driving people away from salvation. Have you considered taking a tact of argument wherein you do not alienate every single person who reads your work. Perhaps one more in line with biblical teachings of kindness, love, forgiveness and humility as opposed to stating that roughly six billion of the world's inhabitants are sociopaths (or at least partially since they don't follow the 'true' god)
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Dec 8, 2014 05:29
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Sharkie posted:drat people do you still think Kyrie isn't a disturbed troll? Nah, I'm honestly pretty convinced. I'm also bored. 
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Dec 8, 2014 05:33
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