Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

The Supreme Court posted:

It's on my mind as it was in the thread earlier, but Kemet works well, as the design encourages the players to attack each other pretty much equally (and constantly). Specifically, losses are easily mitigated, the map is modular so 3 players are forced into immediate conflict and aggression is incentivised by permanent victory points. The final turn can be a bit kingmak-ey, but the new victory condition (which doesn't need the expansion, as it's just a rules upgrade) should hopefully fix that.

Is the expansion out yet in Canada? I did some basic research and can't seem to find any evidence of it actually being available. Would anyone who's played it recommend grabbing both together if I was going to get the base game?

I don't own Kemet yet but from my reading about it it seems like a mix between Cyclades my favourite game of all time and Caverna which definitely sounds appealing to me but how does it compare to these two?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love
Selecta84, I noticed that Chaos in the Old World is on that great list of yours (as well as the impossible to find at a reasonable price Pillars of the Earth, thanks for taunting me) and because it's something I've had my eye on for a long time, how do you like it? Is it a tough game to get people with no knowledge of the universe to give a shot? Are the mechanics easy to teach? It isn't the cheapest and if I grab it I don't want it to turn into another game that sits on my shelf gathering dust because the theme is too dark and it's too hardcore for the Carcassonne crowd.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love
Does Canada typically get any Black Friday board game sales or is this a US thing that I have watch enviously from north of the border

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

AmericanGeeksta posted:

Thoughts on Kemet and Cyclades? Been considering picking one of them up as well. (Spoiler: probably still totally going to pick up TI3 because I'm a glutton for over complex timesink games)

Kemet is near the top of my list of games to get, but Cyclades is the one game I will try to play every chance I get. I love it. Easy to learn and relatively quick to play too.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

TastyLemonDrops posted:

RIP, it's not 2 for 1, it's buy 2 get 1 free. Anyone have a suggestion for a third pickup?

EDIT: Thoughts on Castles of Mad King Ludwig?

Ludwig is a very pretty and fun game that has more going on underneath than at first glance. It's something that people can grab onto quickly and looking at the bizarre castles everyone has built at the end is nice. The bidding aspect of the game can get quite vicious and is well balanced as far as I can tell.

I haven't touched the expansion but it looks like it adds a lot more tiles and bonus win conditions?

That said I never played Suburbia.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

Tormented posted:

I really like Suburbia but Castles has such a huge downtime due to the master builder phase and if your not going second in the round your choices are so limited. Once you get your head around what rooms are really worth its even worse as you can eliminate the grossly over costs ones limiting your choices even more.

I see where you're coming from but the half dozen times I've played I haven't really noticed the choice limitation aside from someone maybe anticipating what other players want to to add (basements, gardens etc) and putting it high on the list in order to gouge them. You can either pass and get money (boo, boring) or buy the cheaper and maybe not as useful room and keep building, or you can build stairs/hallways, or depending on how long some of the less desirable rooms have been sitting there you can buy a room for a severe discount. I get that maybe not all options are great but in my experience people usually have too much stuff they want to buy, not too little.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love
I was checking out BGG for tips but was curious if any of you Chaos in the Old World owners have a tried and true method of playing the game as a two player variant.

The one that seemed to make the most sense was having a ghost player as Khorne with semi-randomised attacks/placements.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love
What's the verdict on Lost Valley? It's just coming back into stock around me after being gone for a while and I like the sound of the mechanics and the theme of it. Any good for two players?

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

Chomp8645 posted:

My family was lukewarm on Catan and in fact most games I've tried to introduce them too.

The two that have gone well are Kemet, which they like, and Coup, which they adore.

Good Lord, how did you get them to hang on for Kemet?

I played Lost Cities and Modern Art with the family over the holiday. Lost Cities (the card game) was an instant hit and everyone wanted to play it, repeatedly. Modern Art did not go over nearly as well, which disappointed me.

Patchwork is incredible and might be my favourite two-player game at the moment. People that rarely touch board games instantly get it and the tactile/tetris like effect of building your board and balancing time/cost is tons of fun. Highly recommended.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

Foehammer posted:

Libertalia is an excellent bluffing game with a unique mechanic: everyone gets identical cards each round, but you only use 6 of the 9 per round, and 3 carry over. On the 2nd and 3rd round, you are all given an identical set of 6 more cards.

Card values determine the order in which you can take loot from a community pool (some loot is bad), and each card has a unique interactive effect. By the final round it gets a bit :spergin: trying to remember who has what card left from the original deal, and the "showdown" portion of each phase is always entertaining. The actual grouping of cards that everyone plays with will vary from game to game.

Time Stories is a $30 choose your own adventure book with dice rolls. You can play it exactly once, much like Sherlock Holmes: Consulting Detective (which has 10 cases, instead of the 1 offered by T.I.M.E.). I suspect quality will vary depending on who works on the writing for the individual expansion modules. Maybe worth it if you have a gaming group that loves narrative deduction and dice chucking, but for that price you could get Above & Below which, while not without flaws, is a better game.


Speaking of gaming groups: I've got a bunch of friends that have been meeting up about once a week but the numbers keep climbing and we're up to about 6-8 regularly and the options of games at this player count is starting to get a bit stale. Between Resistance and its various iterations and versions, Codenames, Spyfall, ONU Werewolf and the highly-mediocre not-Resistance Secret Hitler, are there any other games that work well with larger group that people would recommend?

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

quote:


7 Wonders
Space Cadets: DIce Duel
Dixit
Ugg-Tect
Pictomania
Steampunk Rally
Internal Affairs
Panic on Wall St
Cash and Guns (1st Ed)
Click Clack Lumberjack



Great suggestions, thanks.

I've been trying to find a copy of Panic on Wall St forever. As far as I know it's impossible to get without paying an arm and a leg for it but drat if I don't like the theme and mechanics.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

drat Dirty Ape posted:

When we get a big bunch together we'll often pull out Space Cadets: Dice Duel. So far, everyone has had a chaotic blast every time we've played and it really only works well with a lot of players (in my opinion). In fact, my only real complaint about it is that I don't get enough people together to bring it out all that often. Basically, you split up into two teams who each have a spaceship and try to blow each other up. Each person mans different stations (ala Star Trek or something like that) which are things like navigation, shields, weapons officer, tractor beams, sensors, engineering, and tractor beam. Each station has a mini-dice game that range from super easy (weapons officer loading torpedos) to mildly complicated (pilot driving the ship). What makes the game somewhat unique is that everything happens in real-time, so people are frantically rolling dice, acquiring targets, moving the ship, etc until somebody on a team yells out 'fire 1!' or 'fire 2' (depending on how many torpedoes they want to fire) at which point everyone puts their hands up and resolves the action.

So far, I have yet to play a round of it without everyone instantly wanting to give it another go. Also, in general it's a pretty fast paced game (I suppose it could drag on if both teams were outright terrible, but that hasn't happened to us yet).

For those that care, one possible issue with the game is it would be very easy for people to cheat with their dice since everyone is engaged in their own mini game and would likely not notice. Also, some people might feel pressured by the 'hurry up let's go' nature of the game (sort of like Space Alert) and might not appreciate their teammates screaming at them to load the drat torpedoes already. The varying difficulties of the stations works for my group as a nice way to get people with different board game skill/experience levels involved, but some of the stations are simple enough that they could potentially become boring for an experienced gamer.

Dice Duel is sounding like it might really be up everyone's alley and it isn't that expensive on 401 games either. Only thing I worry about are a couple of sensitive souls that get emotional when being yelled at or accused of being a spy, but we can work around that I think. Has anyone tried the expansion "die fighter" and willing to provide a review/endorsement?

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

Mister Sinewave posted:

Theseus: The Dark Orbit is great and you should be my friend and come play it with me, and we will play Earth Reborn also and be pals
happy and having fun forever :shepface:


Seriously though it is a very well done game. Straightforward rules and gameplay and factions that play extremely differently from one another.

It's a slightly odd mix of abstract and, uh, 'thematic' I guess but it works IMO.

How are the expansions to Theseus? Also, just reading about Earth Reborn makes it seem kind of daunting but is it as scary to learn/play as everyone seems to be making it out to be? It looks like it could be another dust-gatherer if I'm not careful but the stories from the people on BGG make it sound pretty epic...

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love
All this talk about Keyflower has me this close to pulling the trigger on it. Are the expansions any good and worth grabbing with it or should I hold off?

Also, I got to try Bohnanza this weekend with our group and it was a delayed hit. At first people were hesitant and not really getting it (which I suppose is the same for everything) but by the second round it was madness and everyone loved it. Can't believe I've never heard of it until recently.

We also got to try Machi Koro and Seven Wonders for the first time. Machi Koro was cute and fun and frustrating because the one player kept rolling sixes and stealing cash and buildings from us. Seven Wonders was an odd duck, I think it'd be more interesting in repeated playthroughs but there was just so much going on and I had no clue really on what was a good strategy and what wasn't. Just a whirlwind. Very quick though.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love
Played Dark Moon for the first time last night. I know there was discussion here a while back about that I seem to recall being negative but I didn't really mind it. Dice chucking and betrayers and a neat theme. I wouldn't be in a rush to play it again immediately but once in a while doesn't sound bad and god knows there's less footprint than Dead of Winter.

Also got in a game of Cash & Guns and everyone had a good time. Quick, silly, and easy to get. A good game-night ice breaker that supports a fat amount of players. Only thing I didn't like was someone got eliminated early and they had to sit on the sidelines for the rest, which seems kind of mean for a game like this one but at least it was over quickly.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

signalnoise posted:

I gotta give an endorsement for Blood Rage. Easy to learn and super aggressive. Love it

How is it compared to Chaos in the Old World?

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

Dre2Dee2 posted:

I'm usually willing to play any board game with my group, but the games I will magically come down with a contagious cold with are Sherrif of Nottingham, Dungeon Quest... and maybe Shadows Over Camelot

I just... cant play those games, too loving awful :(

Sheriff isn't that bad, it's a fun ice breaker and goes fairly quickly. Even better if/when people get into character and don't play it like it's some sort of championship. That said, if it becomes a staple of evenings or something that game nights are built around I'd get pissed off but I'd rather play a lot of quick games of Sheriff rather than tedious ones of Dead of Winter or Betrayal. Any game gets stale if overplayed.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

The Supreme Court posted:

If anyone is waiting to buy FCM for some reason, get it now: shut up and sit down just reviewed it so it'll be much more difficult to buy.

If I don't grab this ASAP are the odds pretty high I'd have to wait forever for another batch to get printed? There's a lot of positive talk in this thread but goddam the $130 price tag is tough to handle.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love
Got in my first playthrough of Merchant of Venus that has been sitting in my collection untouched for a few months, mostly out of fear.

Holy smokes, we had a great time.

Played it with my gf and I was terrified that she would hate the theme and we'd be bogged down looking up rules the whole time but as we set it up (the footprint is huge, you need a big table) and went through the rules it was surprisingly quick and easy to learn. Also, the cartoony and goofy sounding goods and races helped us not take things too seriously. When we play again we I think we could cut down on the time length dramatically too. The art and components are top-notch, the gameplay is (mostly) intuitive, and when you manage to offload your cargo/passengers you get a real sense of accomplishment. If the set up wasn't so tedious it would be an easy choice to introduce people too.

So I write this as a message to any other cautious would-be-owners: don't be afraid, it looks worse than it is and it's pretty adorable.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

disperse posted:

Did you play the 'Classic' version or the Fantasy Flight version?

The standard version, which I believe is the FFG. I'd be curious to try the classic but it looked like it added about a dozen more mechanics/hours.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

Gutter Owl posted:

...Really? No, the Classic version is far, far cleaner. No missions, no encounter cards or fame tracking or pirates, hazards that are straightforward cash losses rather than roll-to-not-lose-your-turn crap. No broken or absurd racial techs (seriously, gently caress the Fuzzy Dice). Also, the draw-cup based market is much harder to intentionally crash than the sequenced neutral-red-green markets.

Also, because the game is tied to a cash goal, rather than a fixed number of turns, the Classic game is actually much, much quicker. Granted, this comes with its own problems--namely, the game ends as soon as someone crosses the finish line, which can throw close games to turn order luck.

Good to know, I'll give it a shot next time. The checks against laser/shield/captaining was kind of bullshit and I lost a lot of time from my own stupid decisions to investigate dangerous places early, but I still felt like the new rules were very quick and that pirates were only a problem one time.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love
All this talk about 18xx has me considering grabbing a copy of 1830 from my local place. Is this something that you'd need a serious group to sink four hours into learning/playing?

Also, the store website points out that:

quote:

The 2011 version of 1830 was published by Mayfair Games in partnership with Lookout Games of Germany. This publication was developed under license from Francis Tresham in co-operation with Bruce Shelley (the original 1830 developer). This version contains rules and components for Francis Tresham's original classic design, a faster-playing basic game, and new variants from some of the world's best railroad game developers.

Does this mean they cleaned up or offer an alternative the rules problem that Tekopo was referencing?

Christ, I just bought FCM...

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

Tekopo posted:

All the variants are bad and the quick game is also bad, yeah. I want to like th Mayfair version ( I own it) but Christ they hosed it up. It's still worth getting if you literally ignore all the changes they made.

So the "rules and components" from the classic design are not in fact the original ones? This is... confusing

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

Durendal posted:

Yup. You should reread Cenotaph's post, Fulsom.

Just did so again with a closer eye. Sorry for the misunderstanding but thanks for the link for the original original rules

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love
Not quite the same idea, but Snake Oil is pretty fun if you don't let it overstay its welcome and can really let the creative types go wild with selling insanity to others. That said, if you're surrounded by a more introverted or socially awkward group it'll be dead on arrival. As always, liquor enhances the experience.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

Mister Sinewave posted:

Having AP loving rocks cus it's like always your turn :newlol:

Apparently Caverna brings out the worst in me for AP because it drives my GF crazy and makes the game go on way longer than it needs. There are just too many good choices!

I also got to try out DC Deck Builder at a game meetup and I'm curious if I'm missing something. It just felt like every time I did something all it was was dropping five cards down and maybe buying something sort of interesting from the row or taking on the super villain over and over again. I get that you want to grab stuff that your hero synergises with, but overall I felt it was a completely hollow experience that had next to no interaction with other people.

In other news, got to play my fresh copy of FCM on the weekend even though we just did the training wheels version of it, it was a blast. It was great to feel the gears turning and balancing what the various roles do and how to build the engine that suits you best. I have a question about drinks though: Is it just an opportunity to sell another item at the same time as whatever good they're hungering for? And with regard to ads: do people play billboards/mailers etc. aggressively either A) next to opponents' houses to influence their target audiences into buying from your stores or B) to make them want something like lemonade that your opponent cannot provide? Also, let's say you had two billboards, one advertising pizza and one advertising burgers. Do the affected houses now want both burgers and pizza simultaneously and would therefore not buy only one burger or one pizza?

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love
How do The Great Zimbabwe and Indonesia hold up? Was just checking what's available by Splotter and these two stood out.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

Dre2Dee2 posted:

Hrmm... any good places online? I for one would like to import from our frozen north

401 games, board games bliss, hitgames, starlit citadel, gameshack, J&J cards...

401, BGB, and J&J's are my go-tos, 401 in particular but they just raised their min buy amount for free shipping so I'll be less likely to make impulse buys from them.

A lot have a flat rate to ship to the states.

Funny, I remember when the dollar was at parity or greater what a deal it was to get stuff shipped from the states :(

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

attackmole posted:

As a Waterloo resident I never expected I'd see J&J mentioned in here. I've been to their physical store a few times. I wonder if their being carried by the online sales, because they seem good, but most of the action in town seems to at Just By Chance games because they're the guys who typically run the social events for magic/board game nights and the like


Despite the web page, I don't think this exists as a stand alone thing yet. I thiiiink people are only getting it as a kickstarter bonus right now? Or something like that.

I've never been to Just By Chance but as someone who lives outside of Waterwoo, J&J is a close drive and is nice when you don't feel like dropping $150 on a bunch of stuff. When I am in there the place is always pretty busy between MtG and their board games, which I think is mostly because their website is so awful that you can't rely on what's actually in stock based on it. They also seem to have a weird connection to a distributor that can get them some things that no one else has in stock, which is quite odd.

In other news, there is a sale at my local shop and they've got a copy of Space Hulk 2014 for $75. Is it worth grabbing even if I don't want to play it? I remember the game being tough to find and expensive but I honestly did not enjoy playing it after a buddy gushed about how rare and fun it was.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love
Okay, FCM question:

The rules say that any demand tokens created remain on the houses indefinitely. Does that mean that theoretically you could have a house that demands like 15 burgers and if no restaurant can fulfill that amount, it could just keep getting bigger and bigger, especially if you have an eternal marketer set up next door? Or have I screwed up something somewhere?

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

Rutibex posted:

Talisman is good

Talisman is arguably the first non-Parker Borthers board game I ever played and it was with my uncle who had the first edition of it and the various expansions, I think? He had the base set and then the one with the dragon and his tower, and then the one with the four extra city spaces all around the board in the corners. He lovingly painted all the figures and I loved whenever I'd get an invite to play. Dice chucking, character upgrades, monsters, treasure... It was a big deal.

And because he died of cancer a few years ago and his wife extricated herself in a bad way from the family, I'll never see that version of Talisman ever again, so the game has a very special place in my gaming heart.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

Rutibex posted:

Nice, I want to play your uncles Talismans set, sounds like a man who knew his poo poo. From your description it sound like the 2nd or 3rd edition of Talisman. The first edition didn't do the whole "expansion boards go on the corners" thing, it just had separate boards you could teleport to (I prefer this system, as it makes table set up a lot easier!):

vs

Yeah the second picture is the one he had, but it's missing the big rear end tower in the centre with a giant dragon perched on top.

Fond memories of encountering his character as we marched around and the look on his face as I said I wanted to fight him and proceeded to whoop his rear end.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

Oldstench posted:

Don't get mad at board games.

Does anyone else have problems with their groups and people that take games way too seriously? I expect a certain amount of poo poo talking and bragging but there are two or three in our group that just bring everyone down when they're not winning or someone has the gall to make a move that is directly against them. It's getting so bad that an evening can get ruined if there is anything remotely aggressive pulled out. I think Keyflower would actually cause a tears/brawl/break-up. Christ it's bad enough with Codenames and one person who literally screams at you if she thinks you're making signs with your eyes.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

silvergoose posted:

Yeah that frustrates me, especially since my wife will loving murder me in games because she finds it fun. Not that she'll take bad moves just to attack me, but if attacking me makes sense, she will do it with such glee.

A friend has managed to get his wife's family into Cyclades and they love it, but the experience is a questionable since the father-in-law will, without fail, only ever take negative actions against him rather than risk being mean to his wife or daughter even if it isn't remotely the correct action to take. At least my friend can mostly handle it even if he is one of those guys that when you introduce a new game to you had better make sure he has a great time (ie. wins) or else you'll never get a chance to play it again.

I guess that's what maybe bugs me most, the type that cannot handle being behind or out in a game and either intentionally or through immaturity drag everyone else down. I can get sulky if nothing is going my way but as long as it isn't a three hour session of something awful like DoW or Betrayal I can put up with a lot. But when guys yank out phones or start to clearly not-give a poo poo just because they ain't winning it makes me question the entire effort. Maybe there needs to be more liquor involved in these gatherings.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

taser rates posted:

7 Wonders Duel and Patchwork are definitely great for exclusively 2p, as is Keyflower if you don't mind something a bit more confrontational. I'd also recommend Tash Kalar if you don't mind something more brain burny. I haven't played Dungeon Petz 2p, but it works pretty well apparently.

Dungeon Petz definitely works for 2p. You add neutral workers to spots that eliminate a lot of actions and it still feels like you're always just scraping by and having to plan things two steps ahead. Highly recommended.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

PBS Newshour posted:

i think only one person even posted that, yeah. That kinda came out of nowhere.

Seriously grab Codenames though. Also I second whoever brought up Resistance. Those two games are both really really good, and you can get pretty much any type of person who is ever willing to play a board game to try those and enjoy them.

I would also add Telestrations to the mix if you're looking for something a little more party-gamey. Not on the same level of Codenames or Resistance but I've been at places where people that were turned off by the competitive aspects of the latter two opened up completely by end with everyone laughing at how hosed up everyone's messages got. Again, liquor goes a long way there too.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love
Le Havre is a neat middle ground between Agricola's ball-crushing feed the family or else and Caverna's more laid back approach. I personally love Caverna and Le Havre but I played them first.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love

Impermanent posted:

No good game ever is focused on manipulating the appearance of your strategy's success to other players over the actual deployment of the strategy, which is actually what I was talking about. Good games have low to no politics or are oriented pricipally around their politics in such a way that all players understand what they are getting into before the game works. (see COIN games, the Pax series, etc.)

Agricola Addendum: Some games, principally organized around the accumulation of points, may offer players that are a distant third or fourth in a game the option to take a choice decides the game in the first or second player's favor, for example by taking a critical sheep. Playing petulantly by deliberately spoiling a game for a third player while not improving your own score in a meaningful way in a game like this is contrary to rule 0 of the game, which is that the players are playing in order to maximize their own points. Under these circumstances, a game may have limited kingmaking, but the correct course of action is to not play games with that type of petulant player again because this personality problem runs too deep to counter with pure game mechanics.

This is similar to the Coup rule: If a game group cannot play Coup without resorting to name-calling or threats like "if you coup me now I'll coup you in every game first we play for the rest of the night" then you should leave that group or change the game.

Sounds like it just boils down to: play games with people who play them well and can have fun.

If you play games with vindictive pricks that sulk or play against their own interests to spite other players then you need to find different people! But there a few in my groups like this so I get it. I have a friend that will backstab without a doubt (is it still a backstab if you expect it?) every game we play and if it goes south just completely shuts down and will crash the game with no survivors in order to spite the potential victim.

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love
What's the consensus on Ora et Labora? This isn't one that that was considered rushed and Not Very Good, was it?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

FulsomFrank
Sep 11, 2005

Hard on for love
What's the middle one from? Looks like something that fell out of custom Chaos in the Old World box for Slaanesh

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply