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Shugojin posted:What does this even mean? Her sister playfully asked if she got laid and she responded by mocking her for being a single mother. The hero.
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Jan 5, 2015 04:12
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Cpt.Americant posted:So my only two options then are to never mention that he made offensive cartoons or side with the killers? In your view there is no middle ground at all? Am I siding with Bin Laden if I try to find a reason why those crazy guys might have wanted to do 9/11? Or, crazy, you could show the barest minimum respect for the dead by keeping your dumb rear end 'well yea but if you think about it' fake concern as inside thoughts for like, I dunno, couple days after a bunch of people got loving murdered because they used their rights to free expression even in ways that you may personally think are tasteless? Like, is this really a crazy concept? Maybe the literal day it happened isn't actually a great time to say 'well you know they kinda sucked though'?
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Jan 8, 2015 01:41
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^^^Yea that's a better way to put it. You're being Ted Rall when you do this poo poo, and not even Ted Rall probably really wants to be Ted Rall. I agree rape is bad, no one is saying rape is good, but I'm also saying drinking a lot at a party isn't a good thing to do. Woah why's everyone getting mad at me I clearly said rape is bad first.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:44
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Cpt.Americant posted:So you're saying if a Palestinian killed Kirschen that there'd be an embargo over talking about his cartoons? I don't think lovely racist cartoons are valid reasons to kill someone, no. I think it would be less hosed up maybe if someone did this to Dry Bones if that happened, but yea it'd still be a hosed up thing to do.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:48
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:This is a horrible analogy. You could have done a one to one swap and suggested it would be like if someone said racist stuff at a party and pissed off people beat him to death on the way home. Just some sloppy work there. Not my best work, I agree. Hope no one shoots me in the face over it.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:50
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Cpt.Americant posted:I never said it was a valid reason to kill! There is no cartoon any human is capable of drawing that is a valid reason to kill. But are you saying we would not be allowed to mention that Dry Bones really doesn't like Palestinians? Out of some kind of respect for the dead.. on an internet forum? I'm not talking aobut crashing someone's funeral or anything. Is there some kind of chart to tell men for how long I'd be banned from mentioning the comics hatred? I guess my question is what the point of bringing up their dumb racist cartoons is at this time then. Like, the dudes who fuckin did this were pretty clear why they did it, there's no real mystery you're solving, what discussion did you imagine would come from this? Walk me through it, tell me exactly how you expected the debate to go in a non victim blaming way by going 'yea but they were pretty racist' right after they got murdered.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:54
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Wales Grey posted:"These cartoonists do not merit being canonized as martyrs for free speech". Why not?
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Jan 8, 2015 01:59
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Here's where the conversation aspect breaks down for me, feel free to add in. "Wow it's hosed up a bunch of people got killed for cartoons." "Yea, I agree that's a hosed up thing. Also a good amount of what they did was racist poo poo." "Kay." Like, where does that in any way change or tint 'they got killed because crazy people thought it was ok to shoot people who exercised their rights to free expression in ways they didn't like'?
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Jan 8, 2015 02:04
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I guess I'm just sorry that 'martyr of free speech' only applies to people you 100% agree with when they're literally killed for shamelessly exercising their right to free speech.
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Jan 8, 2015 02:17
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Yea while my knowledge of them before today was mostly second hand through French family that was big fans, I feel like, being Roma and all, they'd have at least mentioned 'gently caress their racist rear end politics though'. Like yea, have I thought every thing they ever did was tasteful? Nah, I thought more than a couple were downright lazy shock jokes...but that doesn't change that most of their history has been super anti-racist/pro-liberty and poo poo. So, yea they loving are martyrs, they were a voice for unity against tyranny and they had a good bit of their talent murdered because the exact tyranny they argued against was mad, if they're not martyrs for free speech I'd love to know who are.
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Jan 8, 2015 02:37
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Wales Grey posted:Therefore we should assume that the people I'm arguing with are acting with full knowledge of the history of this French publication and therefore must be acting nefariously, so instead of illuminating the situation I'm just going to spin a conspiracy theory that paints my opponents in as bad a light as possible. If you're going to take objection to what seems to be actual French people talking about the impact yea you should probably know the publication.
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Jan 8, 2015 03:08
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Alacron posted:Not to disagree or anything, but am I the only one who feels like this word has lost all meaning? I feel like "Tyranny" has been used to describe everything from (deservedly or not) Nazis, to Socialism, to Capitalism, to Obama, to govt regulations, to police brutality, to people boycotting Chik-Fil-A. I think groups like AQ and such count as tyrants.
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Jan 8, 2015 03:20
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albany academy posted:idk enough about this thread to know if you have a bad opinion generally or just this one time quote:White people don’t like to admit it, but those cartoons upheld their prejudice, their racism, their political supremacy, and cut it how you will — images like that upheld a political order built on discrimination. quote:Cue some right wing media white dude (or some Zionist) to now accuse me of justifying the murder quote:Someone, more powerful than you or I reader, in the political elites has to have the sense to change the mood music of war and hate, re-look at our policies and have the courage to say: This person is either literally twelve or possibly an actual retarded person in the medical sense.
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Jan 8, 2015 16:07
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Or some Zionist.
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Jan 8, 2015 16:07
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albany academy posted:I don't really find Hebdo's cartoons to be ironic though. Sorry you're ignorant I guess? Like, they super clearly are satire, said over and over, going to constant absurd lengths to show 'hey we're just loving around guys', and, ya know, when it comes to actually DOING things (vs making lovely blog posts) they've been constantly on the side of minority rights and against oppressive forces.
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Jan 8, 2015 16:18
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Legitimate question, has the pro-Israeli factions in France said anything trying to turn this anti-Muslim to benefit their own causes?
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Jan 9, 2015 00:03
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Agreed, a set of rules that basically boils down to 'have basic respect for your fellow man' that while not LAW become general social practice over time will help curb Radical Islam's messaging ability.
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Jan 9, 2015 02:18
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forbidden lesbian posted:Is there even another way to see it? The PC police keep us silent about the dangers of
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Jan 9, 2015 02:20
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Raskolnikov38 posted:I would bet good money these people think Mecca is the size of Vatican City. I'll take it further, I'd bet decent odds on a good chunk of them thinking Mecca is literally just the Kaaba and some, like...tents or something around it I guess?
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Jan 9, 2015 05:42
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Didn't he get a Russian government job though? That he still has?
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Jan 13, 2015 02:56
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Not trying to be lovely but can you post something good he wrote, because every time I've seen him my eyes couldn't roll back hard enough.
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Jan 13, 2015 02:59
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Whites lynched under Holder:
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Jan 14, 2015 04:25
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It was hosed up when, because a white man looked at a black woman, a bunch of black people got together and beat him violently before hanging him from a tree, and local law enforcement went 'yep, good move y'all'.
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Jan 14, 2015 04:34
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Come on Rall, even your 9/11 Widows cartoon was more shocking than this, you brought your D game to this. Like, we all knew he would think satire = shock but this isn't even good shock.
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Jan 15, 2015 00:50
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I like that whenever this poo poo comes up the progressive forum starts edging closer and closer talking about poo poo like how 'it's in the best interests of jewish groups to be pro-israel' and how woah woah woah he didn't cal anyone a kike so you're being a little sensitive aren't you? So far we haven't ticked off any pussyfooting around with stuff like 'but no I'm just saying there ARE a lot of Jews in Hollywood sooo' but I assume the it's a matter of time before he makes a comic about how the goddamn jew media is manipulating Uncle Sam and then we can hear some of that.Rorus Raz posted:This is acting like Latuff engages in Dees-level crap on any kind of regular basis, which he doesn't. This, though, is maybe my favorite post in the scale of 'legitimately doesn't understand anything' field, though. I agree, he's not drawing us sucking the blood out of Christian babies so really have we any right to complain? I don't think Tinsley ever drew Obama as a slave talkin shoeshine boy either, thank god drunk duck isn't racist.
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Jan 15, 2015 15:48
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cartoon a giant hooknose or pockets full of money or whatever racist thing he could have done.
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Mehuyael posted:Actually that was what I thought too, but apparently he was drawn as a soldier with a kipa. I guess my question for that is what negative connotation are we meant to take in an anti-Abbas cartoon with him in the proper attire for The Wailing Wall then? Gilganixon posted:Luckily we can hear you complaining about something that never happened instead. I thought that's what we're all doing, what with the talk of all those people being trampled under big-Jew's mighty boot for being pro-Palestine and all.
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Jan 15, 2015 16:09
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You know, just normal, not weird at all, accusations of being a race traitor from some rando in fuckin Brazil because he said he was maybe open to work with Israel to maybe end the constant slaughter of his people. e: Haha ok no seriously someone please explain how isn't just straight up Dees level antisemitism bullshit, without the excuse of legitimate brain problems? sexpig by night fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Jan 15, 2015 |
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Jan 15, 2015 16:12
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Take $ Biting political commentary aimed at specific targets rather than a whole culture.
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Jan 15, 2015 16:15
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Grapplejack posted:If criticizing Israel is anti-semetism is criticizing Iran or Saudi Arabia being anti-islamic or does that matter Criticizing Saudi Arabia by drawing a big smelly bearded man in a turban with a curved sword to the neck of a white woman labeled WESTERN VALUES is super anti-Islamic though, it's almost as if there are ways to do things that change contexts?
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Jan 15, 2015 16:19
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vyelkin posted:Okay this is really bad, I hadn't seen this before. I think his cartoons have gotten more nuanced since 2001 though. I'd say he has, with his constant depictions of Israel and/or the average Israeli as wimpy sissy men who shriek antisemitism at anyone who criticizes them and all.
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Jan 15, 2015 16:22
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Holocaust 5 was a pretty good movie but it'll never top Holocaust 3: Holocaust Harder, that was just a classic in the many, many movies about this minor event we need to shut up about, that we keep shoving down the innocent consumer's throat. edit: Do I spy a 'zyklon-B' title scrawled on that shelf? Does Carlos have some opinions about wall stains to share? 
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Jan 15, 2015 16:26
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Gilganixon posted:In that other one I'm pretty sure Latuff isn't denying the use of zyklon-B, unless he also thinks the Waffen SS, Nazi party and Nuremberg were fictional. Yea I know, it's just such a weird aside, like there ARE movies about Nazis and poo poo and I'm sure there must be at least a couple Nuremberg movies somehow but I only ever hear zyklon brought up by Dees types who talk about how there's no WAY they could have used it because something something Jeeeeeeeeews. And boy for someone with zero issues with Jews he sure slobbers on a lot of antisemitic knobs.
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Jan 15, 2015 16:43
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Rorus Raz posted:It's an older cartoon, and Latuff has proven that he's capable of learning from his mistakes. Has he, though? Like, about this stuff has he given any indication that he's learned anything, because it seems since then he's just shifted from 'Israel/the Jews will silence any critic of them by calling them anti-semites' (again any proof of this beyond some groups saying 'that's anti-semetic' and some people going 'ok' and others going 'shut up'), to a more personal 'I BET ISRAEL FUCKIN HATES ME FOR SPEAKING THE TRUTH' poo poo.
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Jan 15, 2015 16:49
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Brannock posted:That was good and 100% correct. Why the shrug? Kinda weird to have stuff like 'meh cartoons' and 'my brave brave doodles' and all in a cartoon supporting them.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:07
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:This is an incredibly broad generalization, have anything to back that up? Have you been to many anti-Israel protests not organized by Jewish groups? It's a little uncomfortable when there's usually at least a few folks around in the crowd eager to tell you that the goddamn Jews are hiding the truth about the holocaust to keep zionism alive or something.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:01
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Muscle Tracer posted:Ergo, anyone speaking out against the atrocities committed by the Israeli national government and military is an anti-semite who needs to be silenced. Gotcha. This is a joke right? Like how can this conversation seriously go "There actually is a fairly serious issue of anti-zionist groups not policing themselves well and having some very troubling anti-Jewish members in them, and those members are used as an excuse to dismiss the entire group so really it hurts everyone" "So you're saying we all hate Jews?!" "No, but there are elements that are not good and there was recently a protest that really creepily turned from anti-zionist to anti-jew in a really public way" "SO YOU SAY WE ALL HATE JEWS?!" Like, are you actually retarded?
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Jan 15, 2015 21:38
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Well that's one way to get Kanji's shadow dungeon even more uncomfortable for people.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:52
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Again I legitimately have no idea how you came to that conclusion when the post that got you pissed off was literally just saying 'it's pretty dishonest to act like the idea that anti-zionism having ANY anti-jewish poo poo in it is entirely a myth made by Israel'. The other person never said every group had them or even the majority of people involved shared those ideas, just that they do in fact exist and aren't just fake things made up to slander people, and they not only hurt, ya know, Jews and poo poo, but also hurt the anti-zionist cause by giving the far right and such ammo to go "SEE SEE ALL NAZIS'.
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Jan 15, 2015 23:14
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:Again is there literally any evidence that racists infiltrating pro-Palestinian groups in order to spread racist propaganda and harass diaspora jews about their zionist stances is a major widespread problem? ...Where are you getting this? No it's not some loving organized thing from Racist HQ, it's a dude who already goes around thinking 'fuckin kikes and their media brainwashing' seeing people saying 'Israel is hosed up RE this issue' and going 'yea I agree' and no one telling him to shut the gently caress up when he talks about that first thing.
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Jan 15, 2015 23:31
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:Yeah but that's true about literally every political movement/stance. There's always gonna be the one guy who takes things too far (hell that's why this thread has a 'no poop touching' rule). What makes the anti-zionist case special? What makes it special is that literally no other political movement is taken seriously when they say 'no you're just making those people up to discredit us' but when poo poo comes up about how anti-zionism does in fact have anti-jewish things they maybe could police a little better (again there was straight up just a rally in europe that ended in Jewish homes and businesses getting hosed up, maybe someone should have said not to do that) it's all cartoons about how Israel just calls ANYONE who they don't like anti-jewish and they're making it up and apparently that's not to be pointed out as stupid. We're not the ones making anti-zionism 'special' we're holding it to the same standards every other movement is held to.
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Jan 15, 2015 23:40
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