|
Space Whale posted:Has there been any studies, or even attempts (and record of their success) regarding reforming police departments to minimize or eliminate unnecessary use of force, abuses, selective enforcement, open racism, or the like? It's clearly a problem but I've never seen much done about fixing it except "Fire everyone" and "Feds take over." There is a ton of research about good policing, theories and strategies to minimize abuse, and a poo poo ton of research on domestic violence. You can't just drop in here and ask if this stuff has been done and expect a few links; you are talking about an overwhelming body of work that has been exhaustively studied and supported again and again. People spend their entire lives studying this stuff. Edit: I'm not being snarky read this article about homeless services: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/09/22/home-free Crime isn't about people being bad, it is a complicated issue that has a ton of variables. Pohl fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Mar 8, 2015 |
#
¿
Mar 8, 2015 02:59
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 14, 2024 12:41 |
|
|
That's the thing. Crime isn't about good and evil; nor is it about a good guy and bad guy. Crime is really complicated. The things you were asking about are subsets of crime that have a lot of mitigating factors. Domestic violence is a really good example of a complicated issue that can't be explained in a post. Policing is a very complicated issue, and people can't seem to agree that our modern police shouldn't be shooting people without adequate provocation. The police still treat people like poo poo, they are racist in how they view their communities and how they treat the people in their communities; and they don't seem to ever be penalized for their actions. It doesn't have to be this way, but it isn't because we don't have enough studies or the knowledge to change it; this is happening because people like it this way. I'm not sure what you are asking for. Are you asking for a field of research and study that says better policing works? There are a ton of studies and field cases that show that to be true. We don't do better policing because our populace likes the current status quo. Well, since police have jailed all the black folk, they started to crack down on whitey. That is starting to piss whitey off. These murders of unarmed black men are not new, they are just starting to be national news. This behavior by our police is not new... look up excited delirium. To answer your question, yes, all of that research has been done and it all basically stated that cops suck. Now what do we do about it?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 8, 2015 04:31
|
|
|
n/m.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 8, 2015 04:44
|
|
|
Guy that you just shot is laying on the ground and dying, what do you do? Offer aid and comfort? cops posted:He's still hot, he's still alive.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 17, 2015 23:48
|
|
|
Liquid Communism posted:Answer : When officers break down and start crying after they kill someone I can feel bad for them; their training and the expectations they live with everyday reinforce every horrible outcome that is possible. Somehow, these guys managed to joke and then realize how horrible they were, so they said on tape that they shouldn't talk about it anymore. Did they feel bad? From that video I would say that they didn't give a poo poo. Not at all. Not one loving poo poo. They killed a man and rather than feeling torn by the fact, they seemed completely nonchalant.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 18, 2015 12:47
|
|
|
Condiv posted:you might want to read the article again, the cops said the mother called cause he was making violent threats Did she look particularly worried when she walked out of the the house? No, she walked out perfectly calm, yet frustrated. She wasn't scared of her son, she was tired of his behavior. The difference is huge. You can't tell me the cops didn't see her walk calmly out while bitching up a storm, and catch a clue.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 18, 2015 12:54
|
|
|
Jarmak posted:Its about 11 per 100k, but I'm having trouble finding a number of how many of the ~900k police officers in the country do patrol duty. On norm it isn't radically dangerous. Sure you could filter the death rate of cops and really dive into the data, but even doing that I doubt you are going to get a significant change in how dangerous we currently understand the job to be. We are talking about something that has been measured countless times, and while you could maybe improve upon the methodology, you aren't going to change the significance enough to matter. Policing is without a doubt dangerous work, but this kill first attitude leads to the death of somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,000 people every year, and we don't even know the true number because it is self reported. Eric Garner doesn't count as a person killed by the cops because NY doesn't participate in federal self reporting. How can you have a conversation about police killing civilians when you can't even get reliable data?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 20, 2015 09:32
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:Was this established? FRINGE posted:
I think FRINGE described it really well. I just used the word dangerous because anything could happen at any time, but stressful is a much better word.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 20, 2015 18:54
|
|
|
FRINGE posted:Your ignorance is deafening.  Related story that showed up on the page: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jan/29/kristiana-coignard-video-shows-texas-police-station-shooting http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jan/28/kristiana-coignard-longview-texas-police-killing The video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGIS1Knpvs0&feature=player_detailpage Short news story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEm3fxNSwK4 Pohl fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Mar 21, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2015 04:38
|
|
|
The first cop in that video that assaulted her had to be 220 pounds. I say assaulted, because that is what he did. If he was going to assault her like that, he should have loving restrained her. He could have probably just sat on her. He was the one that escalated that situation, and then he ended up having to kill her. Then they left her on the floor for like 6 minutes while waiting for the EMT's and they did nothing for her. I hope he has loving nightmares of her corpse eating his face for the rest of his life.
Pohl fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Mar 21, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2015 06:03
|
|
|
FRINGE posted:Less than people wish it was. Every study of criminogenic factors comes to the same conclusion. You can create/breed criminality simply by making people poor and then oppressing them relative to the perceived society at large. Hell, every study of human aging shows that when people die they are interchangeable with almost anyone they grew up with. You are your cohort, enjoy your predetermined life. (statistical outliers need not apply).
|
|
#
¿
Apr 10, 2015 09:05
|
|
|
Florida Betty posted:Here's a story out of VA. They aren't even necessarily malicious. There is just so much internalized "you will consent and bow to my authority" bullshit that they can't seem to help themselves. Should we step back and reevaluate the situation? Nah, let's just continue to escalate the situation and torture her to death.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2015 16:49
|
|
|
Dr Pepper posted:Yeah sometimes they're just racist and afraid of a black 10 year old boy According to them he looked like an adult. They all look alike you see... 
|
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2015 17:53
|
|
|
My Rhythmic Crotch posted:I'll be watching this one closely as I unfortunately lived many years in that shithole of a state. It's just as backwards and racist as you'd imagine so I'm not sure what the response will be. My gut instinct is "not much" - both in terms of investigation into the incident and response from the citizens. They had her fully restrained and punched her in the legs before repeatedly tasing her. This is what they fully admit to. They should be charged with torture and manslaughter. Actually, this is a great Federal civil rights case. A black woman, mentally ill, tortured to death. I don't have a lot of faith that the locals will hold anyone accountable, but if the Feds can't make a case out of this they are completely loving useless.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2015 18:03
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:Genuinely curious about the validity of this. It seems like being tazed may be safer for the prisoner than being tackled to the floor of a concrete cell, but I'd like to know what research has been done. Why would they need to tackle her or taze her? Just leave her alone for a little while until she calmed down. If you have her completely shackled and in a cell, why do you have to force her to do anything? Leave her alone. If that fails, get someone qualified to deal with her and drug her rear end into compliance. Seriously, was she loving up their schedule? They had to move her right goddamn now, so backing off wasn't an option? There is no justification for tazing her or tackling her. If she is fully restrained and freaking out, leave her alone and let her tire herself out or wait until she has a moment of sanity. Edit: What makes you think they didn't tackle and punch her before they tazed her? Even their accounts seem to indicate they abused her physically before the tazing, even when she was already in restraints. Pohl fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Apr 12, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2015 18:25
|
|
|
FuriousxGeorge posted:If a person is of sound mind pain might make them realize they need to start complying with orders. If they aren't, the chances that it just makes them less compliant are pretty drat good. Just from the brief description of this incident, it sounds like the use of the tazer was completely pointless and brutal. They knew she was mentally ill, poo poo they were wearing hazmat suits because she had a history of urinating when she was stressed. They knew exactly what they were dealing with, and they went in with force in order to make her comply. They knew, and it breaks my brain trying to understand how they got it so loving wrong.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2015 18:40
|
|
|
I'm more concerned about how they treated him after he was shot.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2015 18:42
|
|
|
If they had started treating him as a gunshot victim rather than a thug, he might have lived. I can't say he would have lived, because I don't know the extent of his injuries. However, they decided to continue with their force compliance on him. What was he going to do, run? poo poo, act compassionate, allow him to lay in a comfortable position and call an ambulance. He lived for over an hour, so not stressing him out and physically man handling him may have let him live. Stupid criminal charges could have waited until he was recovered, but no; he had to be restrained and forced into compliance right now. The gunshot may have been an accident, the way they responded to it was loving inhumane and negligent. Edit: I guess I didn't read fully what you posted, the bold part stuck in my brain. You should bold that entire post. They are saying they didn't realize he was shot? Hahaha. 
Pohl fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Apr 12, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2015 19:04
|
|
|
Haha, this got crazy as poo poo. Which reminds me, why was he even going to taze the guy anyway? He was on the ground and contained. Maybe I'm just a big old soft lefty, but I couldn't even tell why the guy needed to be tazed. 
|
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2015 22:23
|
|
|
Agrajag posted:Let me know where in the videow of him running his rear end off you saw him with a gun in his hands. Aside from the weapon of black guy, that is. Dude, did you see that road?
|
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2015 23:24
|
|
|
FourLeaf posted:Something about how they scream at the dead/dying guy to "put their hands behind their back" and cuff them even if they're a corpse really pisses me off. I'm in the same boat as you. Everytime I see that I get pissed as hell. The first thing they should be doing is offering aid. It makes no sense.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 13, 2015 09:00
|
|
|
Cops are actually good and we like them. There are some structural problems, though. We need to address those structural problems. This isn't just gently caress the police, this is a conversation about how things need to be improved. Can we at least agree on that issue?
|
|
#
¿
Apr 13, 2015 09:06
|
|
|
Zeitgueist posted:Don't you dare suggest that our boys in blue aren't in the most dangerous job in the world. American Exceptionalism at it's finest. We are the greatest country, and we have the best loving criminals too. Watch out!
|
|
#
¿
Apr 17, 2015 00:41
|
|
|
Vahakyla posted:http://www.masslive.com/news/boston/index.ssf/2015/05/gloucester_police_chief_leonar.html If they had universal health care that wouldn't even be an Pohl fucked around with this message at 11:23 on May 6, 2015 |
|
#
¿
May 6, 2015 11:20
|
|
|
Jarmak posted:Love my state, guess being the first to gay marriage and universal healthcare just got blaise. That actually makes me realize why you are so horrible about policing.
|
|
#
¿
May 6, 2015 11:25
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:You seem really into this siege warfare comparison, so it may behoove you to look up how most sieges ended. The phrase "put to the sword" comes up a lot. You seem really into apologizing for cops when they behave badly. It may behoove you to take a second or even third look at the things that are happening. Who am I kidding? We've had a number of these threads before and you always, always support the police. You are a sick individual. Pohl fucked around with this message at 13:19 on May 16, 2015 |
|
#
¿
May 16, 2015 13:17
|
|
|
FRINGE posted:The state worked for years to keep Doerhoff's identity secret. But in a legal challenge by a Missouri death row inmate, he was forced to testify and eventually was unmasked. In his testimony he admitted that his disability made it hard for him to properly combine the death drugs, which he sometimes mixed up, and that, on his own, he'd started "improvising" and reducing the amount of anesthesia given to condemned prisoners by half. Unbelievably, the federal government actually used Doerhoff to create the protocols for federal executions and to oversee them. Jesus Christ. FRINGE posted:Never trust a goddam squirrel. Truth. Pohl fucked around with this message at 07:20 on May 18, 2015 |
|
#
¿
May 18, 2015 07:17
|
|
|
platedlizard posted:This is a really bad thread imo Since this is debate and discussion, why don't you post your opinion and some evidence as to why you think it is a bad thread? Give us something to talk about, rather than your bullshit bad thread reply. Edit: Actually, do us a favor and don't post anymore. Pohl fucked around with this message at 10:23 on May 19, 2015 |
|
#
¿
May 19, 2015 10:17
|
|
|
-Troika- posted:Your beliefs are fanciful and dumb. Achieving this would require the total disarmament of the civilian population of the US and of all countries surrounding it and that is never ever EVER going to happen. Ok, so America is peaceful because everyone has guns. This is a good thing. However, we can't disarm the cops because everyone has guns, which is a bad thing. Guns aren't the problem, people are. But we can't do anything because everyone already has a gun. The longer this goes on, the more the logic needed to validate your point makes less loving sense.
|
|
#
¿
May 24, 2015 13:18
|
|
|
Anora posted:Holy poo poo, listen to the video for these two jems: I started the first video, saw it was a black guy, and just thought 'oh, of course it is a black guy'. At least that one cop finally figured it out and tried to help the guy a little bit. But holy gently caress. They could have taken literally 1 minute more to scope out the situation and not have over-reacted and tortured the guy. You can see how they fed on each others fear in the video. The first two officers over-reacted, and since they were freaking out, every other responding officer over-reacted. Pohl fucked around with this message at 03:01 on May 26, 2015 |
|
#
¿
May 26, 2015 02:56
|
|
|
FRINGE posted:Its those drat cameras "making" cops look bad again! That video is so great in a horrible way. "Why are you arresting me?" "Uhhh..." Just loving lol.
|
|
#
¿
May 28, 2015 09:27
|
|
|
Shooting Blanks posted:I'm pretty sure the rate of alcoholism in law enforcement is noticeably higher than the general population. It is the hypocrisy. I used to drink with a cop and his wife at my local bar. I walked, they drove 15 miles. We did this 7 days a week. They never ever ever accepted my offer to pay for a cab or for them to crash at my place. He was always really loving drunk when they left, probably 3 times the legal limit, but he just joked that no one would bother him because he was a cop. I liked them as people, but that attitude and behavior finally made me stop hanging out with them. Maybe he was good cop, I don't know, but he was loving determined to drive home drunk every goddamn day. Somehow because he was a cop, it was ok. He was always really happy that I walked, then he would turn around and drive nightly. I never loving understood it.
|
|
#
¿
May 29, 2015 09:52
|
|
|
flakeloaf posted:It is absolutely true. Alcoholism, drug abuse (steroids and amphetamines mainly), divorce, family violence, suicide, sudden inexplicable violence which goes the way you might expect when you get a guy amped up and give him automatic weapons; all of those are all fruit of the PTSD tree and you will not find a police agency on the continent that doesn't have at least one of these things. I firmly believe that isn't just the stress of the job so much as it is the attitude that has been developed that policing is so drat dangerous. Yes, it can be dangerous, but when you treat every call as life or death for yourself and your partners, the stress is going to loving kill you. That is what they have done, and it is one of the primary reasons they all react so badly to everyday encounters. A person can't survive when they are walking around stressed out like that all of the time, but somehow our police force has convinced itself that life and death is happening whenever they encounter any citizen. Add in systemic racism and you have what we see today.
|
|
#
¿
May 29, 2015 13:43
|
|
|
If you look thug up in the dictionary it isn't a racial slur and we are using it correctly, therefore we aren't using it to replace the N. word. Signed, all of these assholes.
|
|
#
¿
May 30, 2015 10:04
|
|
|
Naturally Selected posted:Kid wasn't black Ummm, he sure as hell wasn't white, so you've just proven my point. Maybe he wasn't black, but he didn't pass the brown bag test. Do I have to remind you that sand N..... is a thing? Pohl fucked around with this message at 12:08 on May 30, 2015 |
|
#
¿
May 30, 2015 12:05
|
|
|
What in the loving hell. Guy in Nevada shoots two squaters in their bed at a property he owns. He walks, on all counts. article posted:Wilson testified during the two-week trial that she stayed at the duplex off and on for three years. She said Burgarello opened fire without provocation while she and Devine were sleeping in a makeshift bed on the floor. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/30/nevada-finds-man-not-guilty-in-killing-unarmed-trespasser/ Pohl fucked around with this message at 12:41 on May 30, 2015 |
|
#
¿
May 30, 2015 12:38
|
|
|
Agrajag posted:"arm like a gun" I'm not psychic, but I know that guy knew they were there and he just went and executed them. Then, he uses stand your ground or other defense laws to escape punishment, and he gets away with it. Just holy gently caress.
|
|
#
¿
May 30, 2015 12:47
|
|
|
Dusty Baker 2 posted:Far, far more extreme. I got kicked out of the bike shop for being a straight white man about a month ago, since it was a "safe space" night or something. So I just didn't get to fix my bike. What are you a pussy? Fix your own drat bike. Before anyone freaks out, the joke is the insult. Seriously though, fix your own bike, they aren't that difficult. You can pretty much youtube any video that you might need.
|
|
#
¿
May 30, 2015 14:17
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:Juries and the law both tend to give a lot of leeway to the property owner in confrontations with trespassers, so I can't say I'm surprised, especially since the defendant was apparently smart enough to shut up and not make any incriminating statements. Wow, you've discovered the problem. You get a gold star!
|
|
#
¿
May 31, 2015 03:50
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 14, 2024 12:41 |
|
|
FRINGE posted:Does anyone think that officer discretion would be used so favorably for a "civilian"? This has changed a lot over the past 20 years. As a white guy, I used to be able to get away with anything. The cops always just lectured me and then sent me home. I'm not sure exactly when it changed, but it is not the same anymore (and hasn't been for a long time). For reference, I graduated High School in 1991. Pohl fucked around with this message at 03:58 on May 31, 2015 |
|
#
¿
May 31, 2015 03:56
|
|