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The Alien's implicit in the black goo, not the other way around.
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Sep 27, 2015 16:49
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It's weird to realize that people who never got over Newt and Hicks's deaths from Alien 3 are now in charge of official additions to the franchise and working hard to undo said deaths. For instance, there's the retconned survival of Hicks in that awful Colonial Marines game.
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Nov 28, 2015 17:45
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In a post credits scene Shaw and David's severed head contact the surviving characters and recruit them to the alien cinematic universe avengers initiative.
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Dec 26, 2016 01:45
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Even aside from the metanarrative fakeout, Weyland's old man makeup served to make him look freakish and unnatural in a way totally appropriate to someone who'd probably been using every life-extending drug, treatment, or surgery he could get his hands on in the years leading up to the movie. The first time I watched Prometheus it never even occurred to me that he might be revivified (it was obvious that no one was going to get what they wanted), I was just thinking "oh neat he looks like some kind of ghoulish mutant".
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May 10, 2017 20:38
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Covenant was pretty sweet, although it really gave me Welcome To The Alien Cinematic Universe vibes that Prometheus didn't give off. I don't get why people think this movie overexplains or demystifies or something the alien or something. The way I see it it does the exact opposite - first, it reinforces the notion from Prometheus that the creature we see in Alien is just one specific manifestation of this, like, multifarious primal demon-essence, and second, it does nothing to contradict the implication in Prometheus that the engineers themselves didn't really create, control, or understand the black goo, just worshiped it and tinkered with it. I think Prometheus and Covenant actually give the xenomorph a much more of a primordial, supernatural feel than Alien alone did.
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Jun 5, 2017 06:30
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Covok posted:You know, this just made me realize something: both humanity and the xenomorph were made from the black goo: the engineer that made humanity drank it to make life on Earth. IIRC Scott said that the planet an engineer sacrifices himself on in the beginning of Prometheus wasn't even necessarily earth, but just a demonstration of the kind of stuff the engineers got up to back in the day. The biggest thing I took from the scene was that the huge spaceship leaving the guy behind looked nothing like the engineers' own stuff, so maybe the engineers were just servants/worshipers of some older, stranger culture who'd actually bestowed the goo upon them.
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Jun 5, 2017 06:59
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You're praising the EU for telling the same story dozens of times and castigating the movie for going somewhere new. What in the hell
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Jun 5, 2017 17:27
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Taintrunner posted:It's not "new." It's a boring retread of Great Man Theory that jams itself into the canon in such a way that there will never be a real payoff for the actual story. It is not a retread of Great Man theory at all, and in fact makes it clear that the specific bony and glossy aliens we're used to are but one of many emergent accidents rather than a transhistorical ideal that the deific force of Canon always bends towards.
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Jun 5, 2017 17:39
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Taintrunner posted:It overwrites the fear of the unknown combined with humanity's wonder with space and life beyond the stars in 1979 by slamming in a scorned evil scientist android with charisma.exe that has nowhere to go in the storyline with any sort of universe-changing ramifications. David's endpoint is predetermined by the presence of Alien '79 as a sequel. Covenant retreads the same old, stale ground by shoehorning in retreads of the climaxes of previous Alien film instead of focusing on the new, original material, which it leaves open for a sequel that is almost certain to not happen due to fledgling box office numbers. The David material is a dead end that should have been given it's own franchise to grow and flourish. Your second paragraph starkly contradicts your first. If you wanted "fear of the unknown", you would not long so powerfully for the comforting predictability of Alien EU story #3409 in which Weyland-Fudd tries to corner Bug Bunny but that chitinous rascal gets the drop on the human yet again, ha ha! Prometheus and Covenant are precisely ANTIDOTES to the incredibly rote and 100% mapped-out nature of the heretofore existing alien franchise, because they transform what was basically a species of bug with an extremely stupid reproductive strategy into an avatar of seething progenerative chaos. But you don't actually want anything new, or for the alien to regain any of its mystique; you just want to see your comics, which by their very nature cannot diverge from existing movies or in any way surprise or challenge you, on the big screen.
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Jun 5, 2017 18:19
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They did - you can hear their onboard computer reciting a long list of boring facts about the atmosphere before the doors open. It wasn't an airborne disease what got 'em.
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Jun 6, 2017 23:13
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Hodgepodge posted:To get all tactical realist, the chance of a disease on an alien planet being communicable to humans on first contact is close to zero. Bacteria and viruses don't just go around infecting whatever they find, they target specific hosts. Occasionally a mutation will allow them to infect a different host, but that doesn't happen the moment a host shows up. That's why something like the bird flu is a threat to humans- a virus which normally targets birds mutated to also infect humans. Yeah, I assume that all the alien life heretofore discovered by spacefaring humanity has actually obeyed the laws of evolutionary biology and thermodynamics and so on such that there's no reason to fear viral infection or parasitism by creatures that'd have no idea what to do with your bloodstream if they managed to wander inside it.
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Jun 7, 2017 02:22
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Well, Weyland from the hologram at the beginning of Prometheus doesn't really act, sound, dress, look, or act like the Weyland who comes out of a cryopod towards the end of the movie.
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Jun 20, 2017 22:20
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Guy A. Person posted:Lol nevermind I guess we can't discuss that in QCS Banning someone for characteristically using a supercilious tone is completely insane, what the gently caress
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Jun 22, 2017 01:05
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Hodgepodge posted:This is remarkable on that nearly every response to the film it presents is attributed to Scott, the creators and fans of derivative works, the general audience, and the hardcore fans. Obviously what is being presented is your own reaction, but filtered through a series of imagined external perspectives until the very end. Yeah, for real. Like, most of it is this bizarre fantasy about an old English guy none of us have ever met, but then you stumble across bits like this: Taintrunner posted:The chestburster scene ends with a baby xenomorph erupting from one of the crewmembers' chest, as David/Ridley watch on with near orgasmic glee - "ah, I have created this. This, this is mine now. Nobody else's." Where is the chestburster? Why is it fully formed into a tiny xenomorph? Why is this weirdly passive and comforting music playing in the background? Taintrunner posted:We are not in the world with the rules we know, we are in Ridley's mind. There are no rules, no established conditions for the scary monster and are left uncertain of what to expect. The consensus is gone. David/Ridley have reclaimed Alien, and the Xenomorph. What now will he do with this original seed, free to seek out whatever infinite horrors with his toy now returned? This is the true horror of the film, this is the true nightmare inflicted, and what the audience are left to witness - Ridley Scott, throwing all the rules and logic out the window, creates what is largely a derivative. The rules! He's ignoring the rules! He got it all wrong! He's doing this to spite me!
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Jun 26, 2017 17:31
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Taintrunner posted:It is not a coincidence that David wipes an entire planet of engineers and then the film proceeds to throw out any established knowledge or rules about the xenomorph in service of a film that is largely derivative of previous works. On Ridley Scott's return to purestrain Alien, he makes an effort to not only a) wipe an entire planet full of creators, but also b) utterly make up poo poo about anything fans might bring with them about the xenomorph and how they work. All of this is, again, in service of creating what is largely Alien: Greatest Hits instead of a meaningful or even rewarding story with the tools of the Alien universe. Where I have read the film, the cultural context it exists in, and statements of the director regarding his feelings on the works that have followed Alien, as well as posts within this very thread, including one suggesting he is "stunting on 'dem hoes," implies a level of spite that must be read in order to properly comprehend the work. Okay, first off it can't be largely derivative of previous works if it throws all the rules and conventions out the window. Second, I don't think "a planet full of creators" is at all correct here because those dudes were wearing cassocks and holding their hands up in worship to David's ship. They weren't the exosuit-wearing starship pilots encountered in Prometheus. Third, I can't parse "makes an effort to utterly make up poo poo about anything fans might bring with them about the xenomorph and how they work". All I get is anger on your part about a lack of respect for "the Alien universe". But there was never such a thing, and it's not some kind of personal insult or act of spite to fail to pretend that there is.
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Jun 26, 2017 22:52
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Yes, I know. But what were they waiting for? It didn't seem like a "hail the conquering hero" kind of thing, unless they are truly desperate for meaning. The opening scene of Prometheus always made me think that there was some other alien race that the engineers worshiped and which had passed the black goo onto the engineers - it always looked to me like the design of the spaceship disappearing into the clouds as that dude drank from his cup was different from that of the rest of the engineers. Now it looks like the engineers themselves are dramatically divided, with like some kind of sacrificial underclass of robe-wearing dupes who are unknowingly revering their own kinsmen as gods.
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Jun 26, 2017 23:38
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Taintrunner posted:First, it's derivative in structure. The whole climax with the pushing the alien out the airlock and the big fakeout is derivative of previous films. Again, a poster in this thread positively refers to Scott "stuntin' on them hoes" with regards to taking their material and in their opinion, improving upon it. Second, you're actually on to something here. Of course they hold their hands up to David/Ridley - he's the original Engineer of this fictional universe, one that Ridley himself said this film ties into, and he himself admits that the purpose of the film is to establish David as the creator of the original Xenomorph. Now, people have misread what I said, I said a "planet of," not "the planet" of this humanoid Engineer race whatever the gently caress. They've very clearly belonging to the same species by physical appearance alone. Point being, it's a metaphorical wiping of the slate - however, there will always be people creating fictional works within this established universe - Dan Abnett of Warhammer 40k fame just finished a Prometheus comic, as a matter of fact. It's not really derivative in structure, unless you're prepared to attack a movie for like, having rising action, a climax, and then falling action. My suspicion is that when you say "structure" you're really referring to specific plot elements and complaining that e.g. an alien gets blown out of an airlock. I don't think it's a weird snipe at all. You're constantly using the language of someone who has been attacked and insulted - Ridley Scott is putting on airs and calling you a neeeerrrrd and ignoring the rules and ignoring logic. How dare he? Well, the answer is he isn't doing any of that stuff. He isn't even ignoring the "rules" - your problem is that, and I'm going to take the exact opposite tack from SMG here, you're not immersing yourself in the movie enough. You look at the film screen but you can't see what the characters are doing because a giant spectral image of a laughing Ridley Scott is blocking your view. You're getting hung up on really specific tiny details like the fact that the chestburster had arms, and are recoiling like no, chestbursters CAN'T have arms! But actually that's just what we thought. It turns out that they can! It turns out that the xenomorph we know is a specific, contingent expression of a multifarious, demonic force of destruction whose origin is heretofore unknown. It turns out there's something deeper going on. It's like how Newtonian mechanics are pretty good at describing motion but aren't actually an accurate picture of the world because they leave out such things as general relativity.
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Jun 27, 2017 04:49
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I'm not sure that mural represents some kind of ideal or desired end product. It could just be, you know, a piece of art about the mutagen. Like "here's some stuff the mutagen tends to do".
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Jul 6, 2017 19:31
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We actually are shown that Fifeld is a posturing coward, that Millburn likes to brazenly approach strange or hostile things (or people - Fifeld specifically), and that the Prometheus's spacesuits are actually really strong and dependable suits of armor.
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Jul 9, 2017 20:10
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The characters aren't crack professionals, but they aren't that dumb. The big thing to take away from Prometheus is that it doesn't matter if you're dumb or not - your survival is a matter of dumb luck and being careful and hypercompetent (like Vickers) means jack poo poo in the face of uncaring cosmic horror.
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Jul 9, 2017 22:47
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Frankly Fifeld and Milburn may well have either had remote access to the Prometheus's holo-map or good enough memories not to need it under most conditions. Their problem was that at least one of them was scared and panicky, and that there was a deadly shrapnel storm outside. All that needed to happen was for Fifeld to take one wrong turn, realize it too late (perhaps after checking his map), and find after course-correcting and returning to the entrance that it was no longer possible to cross the planet surface.
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Jul 15, 2017 19:43
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s.i.r.e. posted:So the geologist is also an engineer capable of creating drones that fly via magic but didn't design anyway of viewing the map data remotely? He also is incapable of remembering the couple turns to took to get to their position before they broke off from the group (from what I recall from the map). Why did he take this job again? For all we know the map WAS viewable remotely. He just made some kind of mistake that delayed his egress by the several minutes that it took for the shrapnel storm to become completely impossible to cross through. quote:Weyland has no use for the surgical pod, he's too old and weak he probably wouldn't survive any sort of surgery. The Engineers would have been able to do whatever the surgical pod could and probably better considering he's expecting to receive immortality from them. Well this is just fan fiction.
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Jul 15, 2017 20:36
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s.i.r.e. posted:
It WAS written into the script. In the movie, Fifeld becomes panicky, leaves, gets lost, and ends up trapped by the storm inside the alien ruin. We know he made a map, we know he got scared, we know he left, we know he got trapped. All of these pieces of evidence together allow us, perspicuous scholars of the movie Prometheus, to construct a consistent and believable explanation for the events of the movie. There is no need for exposition confirming this for us because we're smart enough to come up with it for ourselves and it's not actually important in the first place.
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Jul 15, 2017 22:02
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s.i.r.e. posted:No one outside of the ship has access to the map. I don't know that that's true, but furthermore, it doesn't matter. Whether or not Fifeld had full, limited, or no access to the map that his drones were drawing for the starship Prometheus, he still could have taken a wrong turn that cost him and Millburn enough time that the pair were unable to exit the alien ruin before becoming trapped there by the storm.
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Jul 15, 2017 22:54
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s.i.r.e. posted:It does matter because it feels super cheap. It's the equivalent of one of the Nostromo crew running away after the Alien immerges from Kane and trying to hide from it the whole film only to die when they find the Alien in the lower depths of the ship. The having the rest of the crew split up and search for said character only to die one by one. Why does a character being unlucky "feel cheap"?
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Jul 16, 2017 01:43
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Alien (1979): A cat avoids trouble aboard a spaceship.
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Jul 16, 2017 04:23
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s.i.r.e. posted:It's predictable and boring, save for half second shot of the helmet melting onto the dude's face which was pretty neat (but then disappears) but then he comes back as a mongoloid super zombie to thin out the cast with some lame kills. That's definitely false. If it was predictable and boring then you wouldn't get this endless furor and confusion over the mapmaker getting lost. People aren't like "oh of course the dramatically ironic thing happens  " they're like "zuhh?? bwaahhh???? but the script SAID-"
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Jul 17, 2017 07:32
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s.i.r.e. posted:Do people not discuss predictable, boring or generally bad things now? Or does discussing something make it inherently good? The Plinkett Star Wars reviews are discussions about the confusions presented in the prequel trilogy and I don't think anyone will argue that those films are good. What I'm saying is that your immediate shift from "this doesn't make any sense" to "pffft, how... boring. how... generic. how... unearned. how... cliched. how... predictable. how... simplistic. how... every other contentless mildly negative word I can come up with. how...uninspired. how... overrated. how-" is just a rhetorical tactic designed to prevent your opponents from scoring points rather than an honest attempt to describe the movie.
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Jul 17, 2017 19:03
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s.i.r.e. posted:On the SomethingAwful Forums? Do you remember what most of the posts were around the time of Prometheus' release or hell even A:C? Most were quick, "Film sucked/owned" posts. I don't think you'll be getting any of that discussion for any film in this series with this thread dying out unless it's another SMG post. I'll leave it at that though. Yes, in fact, I do remember. Primary themes were "what is the black goo" and "why are these scientists acting in this way, I don't understand." Now that people do understand, suddenly it's "predictable" or "boring" or "lazy" or whatever. But what's going on here is simply that the critic wants to be able to continue complaining irrespective of the content or substance of the complaint.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:19
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Splice is incredible, I thought Cube was just okay but who knew Natali had that in him? Splice rules!!
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Jul 25, 2017 19:19
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The takeaway is clearly that facehuggers either implant eggs much faster than we thought, or, more likely, facehuggers don't implant anything but rather persuade your body to turn against itself the same way those spores did.
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Aug 21, 2017 08:05
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The big takeaway from the Prometheus movies is that the xenomorph is this multifarious, demonic avatar of fecundity rather than a discrete species of bug with a predictable life cycle.
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Aug 21, 2017 22:28
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Xenomrph posted:I think for some people, the super-fast gestation period seems weird because of how drastically fast it seems, but really the Alien is already an impossible nightmare-creature that defies science and explanation so yeah, it doesn't seem that out of place when you step back and look at it in context. The movies have been consistent about what facehuggers do when left to their own devices, but not about what the bare minimum required to trigger alien gestation is. It's wrongheaded to conclude that just because a facehugger likes to linger that it has to linger, or that the lingering isn't just there to turn a 30% chance into a 98% chance or whatever. Furthermore, as K. Waste says, it's questionable to assume that all facehuggers across all movies work the same way and have not evolved any. Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Aug 22, 2017 |
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Aug 22, 2017 00:55
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It was unnecessary, unearned, uninspired, generic,
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Aug 22, 2017 18:23
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This makes me think of that bizarre r/writingprompts where it's like "a world like our own except with the universal iron law that if two parents get divorced the state must immediately execute their kids"
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Sep 5, 2017 01:54
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What's so insane about this is that the characters WEREN'T huge idiots, even in Prometheus. They just didn't know ahead of time that chaos demons were real. That's all.
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Sep 11, 2017 04:05
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juggalo baby coffin posted:so what I think would have made alien covenant a lot better is a couple of changes to the lore stuff. I'm just gonna spoiler it all cause whatever. Yeah but you can just shoot neomorphs down or at least drive them off. The xenomorph just deftly ran through all that gunfire. Those statues aren't contradictory with the movies we got at all, though. They just show that xenomorph-ish things are a "natural" result of the mutagen, and have been for however long.
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Oct 11, 2017 04:49
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They did scan the atmosphere and discover that there were no hazardous contaminants in the air. The air was in fact safe to breathe, and the only problem with the planet was the effectively-supernatural monster lying dormant on it. It’s like calling the explorers in The Mummy stupid for not wearing protective curse-deflecting talismans.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:54
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Covenant does not explain the origins of the alien. Imagine if someone literally watched the original movie, and was like ugh, they’re explaining its origins! They show us onscreen that it comes from a spider in an egg on a spaceship and incubates in a human and bursts out of their chest and the grows to full size! Why couldn’t it stay a mystery, perhaps by simply appearing on the Nostromo with no explanation or even by never appearing at all and leaving the viewer confused as to why crew members keep vanishing off camera??
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Oct 11, 2017 16:06
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The alien is neither unknowable nor unpredictable. In fact, prior to Prometheus, it was extremely straightforward, basically a solved problem from the perspective of the sci fi consumer. This is actually a mask for the exact opposite complaint: as of P and AC, the alien no longer fits into the neat little box that reams of comics and video games had been cramming it into, and fans no longer feel like they have mastery of the subject matter.
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Oct 11, 2017 16:22
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