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Fulchrum posted:I only need to know one thing before I decide if I'm taking the plunge on this.
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Aug 24, 2015 20:05
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superh posted:So the new trailer, seems a LOT like Big Boss is Skullface? Time travel? Tyler Durden Fight Club stuff? If I had to guess, I think it would go down like this: Skull Face is real and is the real villain of the main game, but dies at the end as suggested in the guide leaks (crushed by rubble, left to die by Boss/Kaz, finished off by Huey). Then he just starts showing up again in the postgame stuff, at which point he's very clearly a Venom hallucination or something. If the spoilers about Venom are true, this is when the story starts breaking down his sense of identity and Skull Face becomes the demon on his shoulder. Perhaps because he's primed Venom to some extent with his dialogue while still alive. Also worth noting the Outer Heaven logo is a skull with a big hole in it, right where Venom's shrapnel would be.  Also also worth noting, the MGS1 part of the trailer focuses on Liquid and Mantis (who we know are in the game as kids), Sniper Wolf (sorta reflected in Quiet), and... Gray Fox.
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Aug 25, 2015 17:27
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Obvious huge spoiler in the following URL: NeoGAF spoiler guy now claiming he has proof of the game's ending and stuff. Allegedly, Venom Snake is indeed not Big Boss, and is the one who goes on to establish Outer Heaven and get killed by Solid Snake in MG1. The actual Big Boss is the one "killed" in MG2. No, I don't know why the real Big Boss is a cyborg in that case. Dunno if any of this is true but there's pictures so make of that whatever you will.
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Aug 25, 2015 20:28
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There's some contradictory information that needs to get cleared up though. One spoiler claims Big Boss set up Outer Heaven on his own, but then for some reason sent Solid Snake to kill his phantom, while another insinuates that Venom decides to continue being Big Boss and sets up Outer Heaven himself. In the former case, what was Big Boss's actual objective? In the latter, I guess that means Gray Fox was ACTUALLY captured in Outer Heaven, and held prisoner by the Fake Big Boss? It raises so many more questions about the first two Metal Gear games than it answers. 
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Aug 25, 2015 20:40
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RatHat posted:Er, where did you hear the first spoiler? Cause that makes no sense. This implies that either Big Boss and Venom continue to work together, the former as FOXHOUND commander and the latter as the Big Boss of Outer Heaven, OR Big Boss establishes Outer Heaven and Venom fucks it up by posing as him and taking command, OR the "true" Big Boss wasn't the one who set up Outer Heaven (Venom was) and the timeline is weirdly worded.
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Aug 25, 2015 20:47
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The timeline could easily be faked if somebody wanted to, so maybe. I do wonder about the first image though, like where it comes from and if it's not real then how'd they make it. Could be swiped promo stuff? But I've never seen it before. EDIT: That said there are a lot of details in the leaked scenes and missions strongly suggesting Venom isn't Big Boss, so even if the rest is bullshit maybe that part really is true?
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Aug 25, 2015 20:55
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For example one thing that really jumps out at me is some of the flashbacks to the Mother Base attack are from angles that are slightly different from the ending of Ground Zeroes and appear to be from the POV of an individual who clearly isn't Big Boss because he's looking at Big Boss and Kaz. In the hospital thing, you go to all this trouble to create a face and then the doctor says "this is you" and shows you a mirror of Big Boss and then gets killed so it didn't matter what you put as your face because you're "supposed" to be Big Boss. If true, we're essentially playing as one of our S-Rank soldiers from Peace Walker.
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Aug 25, 2015 21:01
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RatHat posted:You're playing as the medic. He's not special or anything, he just happened to be in the right place and the right time(or wrong time). I think him being voiced by Keifer in Ground Zeroes is just an easter egg that hints at the twist.
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Aug 25, 2015 21:16
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I won't scatter your sorrow to the heartless sea. The spirit of the warrior will always be with you. Unless I'm actually not and some other guy is there in my place rubbing you all over his face.
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Aug 25, 2015 21:57
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Also does this mean Liquid's daddy issues are because Venom treated him like poo poo, or because he found out Venom wasn't even his real dad and his real dad couldn't be assed to even hang out with him? In six days we'll know!
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Aug 25, 2015 22:38
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the wildest rear end posted:The old Outer Heaven logo in that one screenshot is really messing with me. Also it's perfectly centered, even though presumably the credits would be scrolling. I'm in full on denial mode, at least about the part where Venom is the Big Boss in MG1 Not me.
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Aug 25, 2015 23:33
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According to the text dump, Kaz becomes pissed at Big Boss for playing him like a drat fiddle and decides that he'll turn Big Boss's sons against him and throw in with Venom even though he knows Venom is a phantom. He was probably collaborating with Venom in MG1 so Big Boss sent Solid Snake in to take out Venom and/or die. Then in MG2 when it's the real Big Boss he's overtly helping Snake against Big Boss because he hates him. Essentially Kaz and Ocelot take opposite sides when everything comes out: Ocelot is eternally loyal to the true Big Boss, but Kaz knowingly chooses the fake to gently caress over Big Boss. Ocelot eventually wins by turning Liquid against Miller enough to murder him, but by then Kaz has gotten his revenge via Solid Snake (at least as far as Kaz knows by the time of MGS1). EDIT: So basically the cycle of revenge is carried on by Ocelot and Kaz and ended by Solid Snake in MGS4 when he saves the world and takes out Ocelot then decides to die/disappear. Except this still kinda means Big Boss is a huge douchebag so the ending of MGS4 is slightly less good, isn't it? Nakar fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Aug 28, 2015 |
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Aug 28, 2015 19:27
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Also according to the text dump, Ocelot does not know that Venom isn't Big Boss because he uses self-hypnosis to forget about it after discussing the matter with the real Big Boss until some later point in the story, because what could be more   than that? So the leak suggesting Ocelot and Kaz both know the whole time is false, because Ocelot makes himself forget and Kaz gets pissed off enough to throw in with Venom intentionally once he finds out.
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Aug 28, 2015 19:34
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MEGA SPOILERS FOR VENOM & STUFF [Ocelot] We'll have to wake up your "neighbor," too. [Big Boss] So he's not- He seems awake now. [Ocelot] No - well, he's not actively conscious yet at least. [Big Boss] He was a doctor too. [Ocelot] In his mind, that past no longer exists. Your past is his past now. He's going to be your phantom. Not some simple diversion - he'll act as the new Big Boss. And the act isn't just for Cipher - he'll be your face on the world stage. Until the time comes for your resurgence. [Big Boss] You make it sound easy. [Ocelot] We've been busy over the last nine years. His altered state of consciousness has helped us implant powerful suggestions through induced hypnagogia. $He's experienced all your missions on record, and shares all your knowledge and experience. To make him believe that he is the one true Big Boss. No one around him will doubt that he's the Big Boss they know. So is he the real Big Boss, or a stand-in? What does that mean to him? Nothing. The human brain is capable of many illusions. Of pain, of the future. What happens from here depends on his skill. But you can vouch for that. [Big Boss] He was always the best man we had. But... [Ocelot] Nine years ago, in that helicopter, he threw himself between you and the blast. In that moment, the man you knew died... He died protecting you, and now, by becoming you, he protects you again. This is just a detour in his journey to Hell. And don't forget - it's what he wanted. MEGA SPOILERS FOR KAZ/OCELOT [Ocelot] Big Boss is building a nation. But until it's complete, we support the other Big Boss. The phantom who carries on his legend... his meme. That, is Big Boss's plan. [Kaz] So that's the way it is. 9 years ago, I thought everything had been taken from me. But now, I really have lost it all. The Boss, and the future we were building together. [Ocelot] One day, the age of Big Boss's sons will arrive. They'll likely want to settle the score with him. We have to shape that age. We'll each have roles to play. Building the foundation for a revolution led by both Big Bosses - the true one, and the phantom. [Kaz] No... Big Boss can go to hell. I'll make the phantom and his sons stronger, to send him there. For that... I'll keep playing my role. Huh. You know... Sooner or later there will be only one Boss. There's only room for one Boss. His sons are fated to face each other someday too. If the day ever comes that you go back to Cipher, I'll aid the other son. And then you and I will be enemies, too. One of us will have to kill the other. [Ocelot] Fine by me. I'll be ready for the new age. Until then, we'd better get used to coexisting. There are also only a handful of references to Solid Snake: Every now and then the tapes mention "the boys" with respect to the LET project, and one tape while discussing Eli says "David has never left the States". Specifically in the following exchange ( SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY ):[Big Boss] What's up? [Ocelot] About the 1972 project. Les... Enfants... Terribles... [Big Boss] You never did like the French. [Ocelot] All that Catherine the Great aristocratic pompousness gets to me, that's all. Palace talk... they can keep it. [Big Boss] Les enfants terribles... "the terrible children." [Ocelot] That madness Zero started... or the start of his madness. [Big Boss]Y ou found out something new? [Ocelot] The plan itself was abandoned in '76. ATGC dismantled the project, and their account with DARPA was closed. So I was worried about what happened to you- Your sons. [Big Boss] They're no sons of mine - and they're sure as hell not me. [Ocelot] Just a bunch of cells grown in a lab? [Big Boss] What they are is much sicker than that. [Ocelot] Well, Zero doesn't think so. EVA doesn't either. To them, those boys are your clones - they're you, down to the last hair. [Big Boss] And? [Ocelot] The first boys were raised... "free range," like we thought. Both of them. David has never left the States. But the other, Eli, has disappeared. Might as well call it "abandoned" - they're through with him. [Big Boss] Where is he? [Ocelot] He was in England, Zero's home ground. Apparently he traveled to Africa after that, but... That's where he escaped from Zero's care. [Big Boss] Just like that? Why? [Ocelot] Who knows? Maybe he found out about his "birth." If he's alive, he'd be 11 or 12 by now. Source for all of this is the alleged text dump.
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Aug 28, 2015 20:12
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Broseph Brostar posted:This is the part that doesn't make sense. Eventually in MG, Big Boss starts giving Snake false intel on his codec, like leading him into traps. I think the most logical conclusion is that the two continue to work together, because if Snake was supposed to succeed in Outer Heaven then he'd inevitably have to confront Venom and the whole "oh oops Big Boss runs Outer Heaven" thing would get out. If Big Boss was concerned about clearing up the loose end of a double he'd just tell Snake "Be careful, the guy behind Outer Heaven has had himself modified to look like me and exploit my legend, but you'll know he's not me because he has a cyborg left arm and a huge scar/horn on his forehead." So I get the sense Snake was never supposed to succeed, as Metal Gear 1 implied, meaning Big Boss fully intended to keep the secret of his double.
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Aug 28, 2015 22:25
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Yeah I don't know, hopefully the endgame fleshes out his motives a bit. If he was legitimately turning on Big Boss then it makes sense Grey Fox would be captured (since Venom actually isn't Big Boss and therefore has every reason to hold his man) and why he'd try to kill Snake, but if that's all true it makes no sense Big Boss would take the risk of Snake being successful and discovering that "Big Boss" is running Outer Heaven. And since he basically flees and forms Zanzibar Land after MG1, it's clear that Snake did expose the whole "Big Boss was, um, behind Outer Heaven apparently?" thing. So did he want Snake to succeed or not, and if he did why the gently caress did he not mention the body double and bullshit around it?
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Aug 28, 2015 22:44
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Maybe he's getting tired of it because he's been playing it almost nonstop? I get tired of good games if I play them for too long too many days in a row. Also if there is a grinding issue the PC version can fix it so I'm not too worried there.
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Aug 29, 2015 04:09
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It looks pretty fun to me. There are some huge complicated-looking areas in Africa from the look of things. Afghanistan looks more simplistic; maybe it's supposed to be that way to be easier early on? There's definitely large swathes of the open world that don't have much in them but that's to allow you to make an approach to the denser mission areas. If the Mother Base teams are leveled enough they alert you if anything of interest is nearby, otherwise you can just pass through.
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Aug 29, 2015 06:27
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Important stream confirmation: You can in fact get Quiet some drat clothes, but in the strangest manner possible: You can't put the clothes on buddy Quiet, but you can play as her as a skin. And yes, she can still be a buddy to herself. EDIT: Wow she even has voice acting for the player version and I'm pretty sure it's Stephanie Joosten with all the gameplay lines recorded like buddy orders and interrogations and stuff. EDIT EDIT: Actually I might be mistaken, it might be a Quiet XOF Fatigues outfit for female Mother Base personnel and his character is just similar-looking to Quiet. However he's also developing the same thing so it might be that buddy Quiet can also equip her XOF fatigues from the hospital intro, which should satisfy anyone who wants her to look cool. Mother Base personnel seem to have all the same camo options as Snake, though I don't know if they can go shirtless like him. Nakar fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Aug 29, 2015 |
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Aug 29, 2015 07:34
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Capn Beeb posted:What stream are you watching? The Quiet grenade deflect is actually pretty generous and useful and seems to track larger targets well. The streamer used it to down a helicopter by deflecting 3-4 frag grenades.
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Aug 29, 2015 08:19
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SyntheticPolygon posted:So that big plot twist seems cool and all but is there any really goofy stuff in this game?
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Aug 29, 2015 08:26
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a cop posted:Is MGS finally the game that lets you kill kids? I can't remember the last game that let you kill kids. Its always something they go to absurd lengths to avoid. They will however be trying to kill you.
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Aug 29, 2015 08:41
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Anime Paz is one of the things you can put on the cardboard box, incidentally.
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Aug 29, 2015 08:45
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One of the loading screen tips says soldiers can perform above their ratings if staff morale is high. How that works specifically I don't know.
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Aug 30, 2015 02:51
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Mokinokaro posted:That stream also confirmed something about postgame Though I bet PC hackers will figure out a patch to flag it.
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Aug 30, 2015 17:09
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Tapes are 90% Kaz and Ocelot. RAD and Baker put in the overwhelming share of the game's voicework. Code Talker is also fairly prominent later, and Huey and Skull Face also talk a decent bit on them. For the most part when Big Boss talks it's short sentences or questions, and then Kaz/Ocelot do all the elaborating.
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Aug 30, 2015 21:12
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Spermando posted:The tapes seem to imply that Code Talker got the parasites from The End's remains.
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Aug 31, 2015 22:22
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The official guide explains voluminously how to get Heroism and Demon Points, and what Demon Points do, but not what Heroism's actual function is other than "at 150k+ you get the Hero achievement and can invade nuclear-equipped FOBs." I'm pretty sure it also influences the stats of volunteers and possibly also of enemies, but no one can confirm this and the only official documentation for whatever reason didn't think it important to explain what actually makes recruitable enemies have higher base stats even though they clearly go up over time in all areas based on something. I don't think it's just mission/story progress, but I don't know what else it could be other than Heroism. I almost never see anybody less than a C-B now in stats even in Free Roam in Afghanistan. There seems to be no quality distinction except that on some missions high-value targets might have better stats, up to A++ or so. I'm assuming eventually S or better ranked soldiers will start appearing as volunteers and enemies, but what makes them so?
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Sep 4, 2015 16:42
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Vikar Jerome posted:Heroism in peace walker would just get you volunteers and the higher the heroism the more quality volunteers you get plus better moral for all staff. I figured its just the same for tpp. I think the way that works is if the mission reward is full (white number under GMP) then special characters also have the best stats, while they otherwise don't, and those stats are scaled to your Heroism (so redoing A Hero's Way every time it's white and extracting the commander should produce a superior recruit). In any event, the ranks of volunteers and free roam characters seem to be based on Heroism. I just ground out C2W* to max my buddy affections and bumped my Heroism from ~100k to ~150k, so I'll report back if I find anybody better than A++ (or find A++ more often) in Free Roam. If that's indeed what happens, with the rare S, then my guess is every ~50k Heroism or so bumps the max possible rank for soldiers you can acquire by one, and if you ever want to see S++ guys outside of rare mission enemies you probably need around 250k Heroism. If not, then maybe it's related to story progress somehow (except I'm only on Mission 18, so I'm not that far in I'd think). * Bomb the anti-air radar and then keep doing C2W using the chopper minigun to complete the mission in <2min. 1600 Heroism and a Foxhound codename every time, plus D-Dog and Quiet will rank up (it doesn't seem to work for D-Horse, probably because you're only getting the "extracts on the chopper with you" boost and D-Horse can't get that). It also seems to refresh other missions back up to their max reward state, while lowering C2W down to like 200 GMP reward (but you still get 50k from the S Rank so if you equip cheap guns and a Battle Dress you won't die and will not go broke).
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Sep 4, 2015 19:24
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:So could someone explain the heroism system? As far as I can tell, higher heroism gets you better volunteers, (and you can invade nuke-equipped FOBs?) but you can "become a demon" too by doing stuff like murdering people in FOBs and developing nukes (how do you even do this, by the way? I see the counter for how many nukes I've built / disarmed, but I don't see an option to actually do that), and that apparently makes your shrapnel horn grow? Do you get any other benefits to offset the loss of better recruits? Heroism appears to affect both the quality of volunteers and of random enemy soldiers. I suspect it also plays in with the "freshness" of mission status in terms of whether you can get elite recruits by extracting high-profile targets, but I need to test it. It goes up from achievements/trophies (max out your buddies for several big bumps) and good behavior and such, and since Demon Points are separate you can do something that gives you Demon Points (kill everyone in an outpost) and still earn Heroism (from liberating the outpost). I think Combat Team ops also give you Heroism with no Demon Points since Snake's not doing anything personally there. If you hit 150k or so Heroism after Episode 31 you earn the "Hero" title and achievement/trophy which is itself a big Heroism bump and also allows you to invade FOBs that have nuclear deterrents. You lose Hero status if your Heroism falls below 100k. As far as I can tell you always want high Heroism so building a nuke is a really dumb idea unless you want the achievement/trophy as it docks you for like 50k Heroism. The demon thing is strictly cosmetic and hell you might even want it, and I don't know why you'd want nobody attacking your FOB.
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Sep 4, 2015 21:32
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Rabid Snake posted:The only thing I dislike about this game is the amount of traveling you have to do on foot. Yes, you have Diamond Horse but you can't have Diamond Horse and your other buddy at the same time. And it's a pain to switch out buddies since it takes a long time for the air drops to happen. It's no fun to run 2 minutes to the next location. Also I don't think Heroism itself directly affects your staff rank after all, or there's a combination of Heroism and story progress gating it. Increasing Heroism significantly without doing any new missions didn't net me any better recruits than before, still stuck in the A+/A++ range. It's possible you need to be in Part 2 or something, I have no idea.
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Sep 4, 2015 22:45
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I like that boss fights are escapable, it makes sense for an open world game. To be honest I also like how I have no ready counter to the Skulls and bosses that never lose you once they've spotted you at least makes sense as a gimmick. I'm sure there's better ways to handle them but outside of homing weapons I have no idea how. Man on Fire was a pretty good fight, if a little too easy. Sahelanthropus is OK. Nothing super memorable but I wouldn't say totally awful either.
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Sep 5, 2015 21:55
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randombattle posted:He also used his son as a test pilot in a dangerous experiment and betrayed every single group that ever helped him. Funky Valentine posted:It's cool that this game reconciles "rear end in a top hat who tried to drown his stepdaughter" from MGS2 and "literally Otacon in a wheelchair" from Peace Walker in a pretty perfect way. Funky Britches posted:It's great because you expect him to be all bro with Snake like Otacon is and he turns out to be a big piece of poo poo.
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Sep 6, 2015 01:42
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lovely Wizard posted:I guess if he knew Big Boss woke up and came to him when he woke up instead of the weird Body Double plan, he'd still have his arm/leg/eyesight. Basically he was exploited for his anger and drive and leadership, which Big Boss used to form Outer Heaven around his own image in Venom. Miller built MSF and DD but Big Boss is who the soldiers idolize, so Big Boss can take it away from him. That's why he decides to shut his mouth and train Solid to surpass the original, Big Boss still considers him a friend and doesn't realize how pissed he is.
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Sep 6, 2015 20:27
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Every time you pass another stage toward becoming a demon the number of points in each "range" increases such that it's really hard to get back down. In theory if you did it'd be really hard to ever go back up though. You can lose Demon Points by maxing out your buddies (-5000 each one time), rescuing all animal species (-10000 once), disposing of ten nukes (-30000 for 10, beware that building one nuke is +50000), Fultoning child soldiers (-120 per), or visiting the Animal Conservation Platform (-300 each time, and the guide claims it's repeatable). So if you wanted to shed Demon Snake status redoing Mission 23 or spamming visits to the zoo could do it.
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Sep 7, 2015 07:57
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I almost wish the ending of MGS5 had been that Venom killed the real Big Boss outright because it would make several things in the earlier games even funnier. Like Liquid's entire plan in MGS1 would've been pointless from the start because the "Big Boss" whose remains he needed wouldn't be genetically related to him and his men, and the body in MGS4 actually being Solidus would've ironically meant the remains were closer to Big Boss's than if they'd actually been "Big Boss." And the epilogue of MGS4 is just Venom stitched together with Solidus bullshitting Solid Snake because he's just as tired of this bullshit as Snake is at that point. Ocelot would know all of this and, as Zero was the only other person who knew and couldn't tell anyone, would take this secret to his grave because it's too hilarious that neither David nor Eli actually met their real father and they and the world got all hosed up because of some AIs and the guy Cool Soldier-Dad Big Boss turned into an angry brain-damaged version of himself. Full Battle Rattle posted:Really I wish there was some kind of way to reset the soldiers down to the base levels. Even doing the storage shed things there's still a zillion dudes in riot suits everywhere. And helmets, oh my god helmets. When every little outpost is packed with super difficult dudes it starts to impact how fun the game is, imo. Most armored guards can be taken out with nut shots (seriously, shoot them below the belt). Riot suit guys are a bitch but an underbarrel sleep grenade launcher is a good cure. Until they start handing out gas masks.
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Sep 7, 2015 23:19
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Ekusukariba posted:So how do I unlock Hand of Jehuty and wormhole fultons?
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Sep 8, 2015 00:29
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:You can make every single mission in the game a "subsistence" mission by choosing to bring no weapons, items, or buddies. The enemies are even harder when you go back and replay missions. Turn off reflex mode and make every single mission OSP. Hell, you can get yourself injured and dirty for a 25% health penalty if you want it to be even harder.
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Sep 8, 2015 06:48
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If a materials container is spawned, starting a mission that has that container present can allow you to farm it. Start the mission, Fulton the container, force a checkpoint, and then abort the mission and start it again. This apparently resets the world state and respawns the cargo container. Normally if you steal something during a mission or free roam it takes time for it to come back. I dunno why you'd do this exactly as eventually you have more resources than you know what to do with as long as you steal them when you can, but it might be useful for Precious Metals farming for GMP or something; there's a Precious Metals container right at the start of Mission 30 and I think a checkpoint right up the road. Das Butterbrot posted:why are they not possible to self enforce? dont use any weapons until you picked one up, or is your willpower that low? It really should've just been a mission modifier, but I guess they needed padding? The fact you can't stack them sucks too, I'm sure the super experts would be all over Extreme+Subsistence+Perfect Stealth.
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Sep 8, 2015 09:10
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If that becomes a concern there's probably a couple missions where you can get a lot of Fuel using that trick. Anything that sends you to the Airport should let you steal the NE container stack and flee to checkpoint, and if you start Mission 13 and run up the river you can mail yourself right to the Oilfield, which might let you swipe the 15000 Fuel there and quit out.
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Sep 8, 2015 09:21
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