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Sinteres posted:There are tons of images of people protesting against Maduro despite people showing up with guns to kill them when they do, but your picture of the fraction of the country that still supports Maduro turning out definitely means he's super popular. why don't you post them
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Jan 23, 2019 21:11
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Giggle Goose posted:I know you aren't going to answer this question because none of you ever really do, but: How is the opposition led by Guiado right-wing? How is Maduro's dictatorship left wing? Because he says that they are? because Guiado or whoever the imperialists end up installing in his stead, would follow or be forced to do whatever foreign (american) holders of venezuelan debt see as necessary to get their money from the venezuelan people
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Feb 2, 2019 00:33
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fishmech posted:You could have just said "I, Judakel, was making it up" or "I, Judakel, think an entirely different group will be flown in to replace the current Venezuela opposition" dude. err... america does that on the loving reg?
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Feb 2, 2019 00:34
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what
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Feb 2, 2019 00:41
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im looking into the future, wondering whats gonna happen, while the real smart guys are looking at the the FACTS and using REASON and LOGIC to talk about the ACTUAL REAL THINGGS THAT EXIST
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Feb 2, 2019 00:42
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but yeah, the main reason why the capitalist imperialists on wall street are supporting a Venezuelan invasion is to get those sweet debt bond interest payments back up and running again, and that money is going to get extracted from the Venezuelan people no matter who gets put in power. if they succeed in getting Maduro ousted, that is
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Feb 2, 2019 00:46
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Squalid posted:Do you really think Maduro is free to default on foreign debt if he pleases? yes, i do. i most certainly and definately believe in the right of a nation or an individual to default on their debts. it is called bankruptcy, and you using that as a cause for foreign invasion makes we want to throw up. gently caress off with that imperialist poo poo zapplez posted:Maduro is literally one of the most incompetent rulers of a country in modern history, and unless they end up electing hitler or stalin I don't see how the citizens of Venezuela end up in a worse position then they are now, because right now they have some of the worst hunger and violence in the world in a country that was prosperous only 10 years ago. the people who were prosperous 10 years ago are indeed the ones looking to overthrow Maduro, but i don't think they're the ones starving under imperialist blockade. the blockade which is also the reason why venezuela couldn't get seed grain btw. maduro might well be a fat incompetent dildo, but that doesn't make american foreign interventions good. so far, imperialist interventions in latin america have resulted in death, destruction and establishment of regimes like the ones Chavez overthrew. however could you figure them doing a pinochet on venezuela would get you to a good place i cannot fathom, but i suspect it has something to do with bond rates
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Feb 2, 2019 02:15
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zapplez posted:I really don't think you have an idea of what any of the numbers are really like. Its not a small minority that wants Maduro out. It wasn't a small minority that were doing well 10 years ago. Its not a small minority that is starving now. These are things that most people experienced. Its a big deal. Its not small fractions. The country has had near infinite inflation, coupled with shocking increases in hunger and violence. Its affecting everyone. And it'll get worse for everyone once the US takes over. That's the whole point of the blockade, to make things miserable enough for enough many people to give justification for a coup, after which lifting the blockade will just magically make things get better again. almost as if it was the blockade that was the cause of the misery and shortages of all those traded goods, not maduro... GreyjoyBastard posted:this doesn't get more true through repeating it trade embargoes are usually the cause of shortages and price inflation. if you wanna argue this isn't true in the case of venezuela, go right ahead
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Feb 2, 2019 02:42
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zapplez posted:You can't just blame everything on the USA. Its not like they would be living in this communist paradise if it wasnt for the USA meddling in their poo poo. Its Maduro that either is so retarded or arrogant he has destroyed his country, or he is just so corrupt he ruined it. He isn't some bus driving folk hero just doing whats best for his citizens. He is a thief or an idiot, or probably both. which doesn't make the US embargoes go away either. maduro might be an idiot, i don't really care. the US doesn't either, since what they're looking for isn't to oust maduro, but to oust the socialists currently in power in venezuela. the US wouldn't lift the blockades if maduro got shot in the dick and they elected bernie to replace him. the point and reason of the blockade is to cause enough misery in venezuela that a coup would look like an improvement. which isn't exactly doing whats best for the venezuelan citizens either...
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Feb 2, 2019 02:50
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Giggle Goose posted:What the hell trade embargo are you talking about? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargoes
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Feb 2, 2019 02:52
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DoctorStrangelove posted:The inflationary crisis predated any sanctions on anyone in the country by several years. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/world/americas/obama-freezes-assets-of-seven-venezuelan-officials.html i mean i can keep writing these things into google for you if you want me to but i don't know how thats going to advance the discussion
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Feb 2, 2019 02:55
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Pharohman777 posted:The most baffling thing is that maduro has explicitly given goverment positions, like running the psvda, to military generals. i think it's a thing you'll find pretty often in places under constant threat of a foreign invasion
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Feb 2, 2019 03:09
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Temaukel posted:Freezing assets of 7 individuals is an embargo now? no, but it is connected to the price controls implemented years ago. the US began loving with venezuelan economy a long time ago was the point
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Feb 2, 2019 03:10
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GreyjoyBastard posted:tldr: the 'economic blockade' wasn't clearly worse than the alternative for Venezuela as a country until recently, and sure as heck isn't the main cause of Venezuelans loving starving what alternative?
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Feb 2, 2019 03:16
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Squalid posted:I think you have misread my intentions with that post. I wasn't asking if Maduro has an abstract right to default, I was asking you to consider what kind of policy Maduro is actually likely to pursue in the future, if nobody were trying to remove him. the reason for prioritizing debt payments to russia and china was because venezuela was banned from american debt markets. as for the results being a disaster, i don't think economic sanctions imposed by the IMF on venezuela for defaulting on some century of bonds are on him, but whatever
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Feb 2, 2019 03:20
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GreyjoyBastard posted:what imf sanctions sorry, it's kinda hard to remember which US sock puppet was responsible for what at 4am. gg
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Feb 2, 2019 03:32
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Discendo Vox posted:Please find some sort of supporting evidence for the “right wing coup” framing. PT6A posted:I think it's okay, even good, to be suspicious of Guaido's actions, motivations and sources of support, and through doing so, make sure he is held to the appropriate standard: that he must continue to do what is reasonable to restore Venezuela's constitutional democracy. What's not okay is writing him off entirely at this point and sitting on our hands as we wait for the second coming of Christ to descend from the heavens and personally remove Maduro from power. lol
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Feb 2, 2019 16:02
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PT6A posted:This seems encouraging. Hopefully the police continue to do the right thing and any question of US military intervention becomes a moot point. Let us pray the Venezuelan people will coup themselves and US help in establishing a responsible government of REASON and LOGIC, will be unnecessary
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Feb 2, 2019 16:47
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PT6A posted:When the people of a country "coup themselves," we have a special word for it: democracy. lmao yes YES! that is indeed what the US calls democracy when they sponsor coups in countries they're threatening to invade looking forward to the new provisional government violently bringing all those criminals supporting PSUV to order. no doubt it will be done very democratically
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Feb 2, 2019 19:33
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Randarkman posted:The opposition, by way of the national assembly has already passed a law granting amnesty to anyone from the PSUV, military or the police who will support bringing down the PSUgovernment and facilitating new elections and resumption of democracy. oh yes, which will no doubt be interpreted very democratically after the fact keep that image of my distending anus in your mind, i'll be coming back to your face with this later. after the coup. which will be very democratic (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 2, 2019 19:47
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Presenting Nipples posted:The US is going to back political opposition which serves their geopolitical interests- which is the overthrow of the Venezuelan, Nicaraguan and Cuban governments. They will happily support a military dictatorship in Venezuela. that's just what we call democracy around here. US backed military coups always end well for the people democratically calling for a coup in US media. because they'll democratically end up on the top afterwards
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Feb 2, 2019 19:50
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Rust Martialis posted:You clearly don't care in the least about Venezuela except to use it as a prop to hit the socialists with, so spare the thread your crocodile tears and breast-beating. Your hypocrisy is nauseating.
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Feb 2, 2019 19:51
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fnox posted:The revolution, much like everything else Venezuela has, has been stolen. Whatever merit there was, it isn't there anymore. Maduro's regime is indistinguishable from a right wing dictatorship of the worst variety, militaristic, paranoid, elitist and with very little disregard for the troubles of the common people. There is nothing Venezuela stands to gain by keeping him, even for just one more day. which will be replaced by a democratically couped government of a far worse variety if the US gets its way. if you think that the Guaido coup would lead to a government that cares one bit for its citizens interest, i wanna know why. cuz there's quite a bit of material showing that every coup that US has ever backed ended up a violent oligarchic dictatorship
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Feb 2, 2019 19:57
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fnox posted:Any democratic government is better than a military dictatorship. As we've received absolutely no assistance whatsoever from enlightened individuals such as yourself, we're going with the only people who seem to give a poo poo about getting Maduro involved. If Guaido ends up being another violent oligarchic dictatorship, replacing the current one, we'll just get rid of him as well until someone stops loving up. no you won't, because the US is going to back Guaido militarily after he gets his provisional government up and running. same as they've done every other time a democratic coup they backed gets in trouble fnox posted:Don't blame people for taking the one and only lifesaver we've been thrown in this entire crisis. I loving wish you would put this energy towards actually doing anything to help Venezuelans in crisis right now. Seriously, imagine if any of the people claiming there is economic war were doing loving ANYTHING to help Venezuelans in need. I would like to challenge the C-SPAM thread: Please, organize your own charitable action to help Venezuelans. I would like any of you to at the very least try to get food aid into Venezuela, see what happens. oh yeah sure, it's true that i shouldn't be posting here at all, when i could be doing so much to help venezuelans from a closet in finland. i do admit it is hypocritical to point out what the usual results of a US backed coup have been, when i could be out there on the front line, helping venezuelans. from the other side of the world. i mean i just bought a piece of bread that i could've over there instead of deciding to buy some cheese as a celebration
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Feb 2, 2019 20:19
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fnox posted:Are you absolutely loving making GBS threads me? You're in an extremely good position to help, you live in the first world. For you, as a Finn, 5 dollars is nothing, 5 dollars could feed dozens of people in Venezuela. This mentality is just insane, it means accepting that you're fine with not doing anything but whine. I literally just had to decide whther to spend that 5 euros on cheese or ham. i chose cheese btw. so yeah, 5 dollors is something to me you elitist loving moron and no, i will not be donating to a catholic church charity to prove myself to you. eat poo poo and die (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 2, 2019 20:41
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madeintaipei posted:The coup government of Nicolas Maduro has, meanwhile, mostly refused to admit that any such problems exist, only pausing to blame external influence when they do. Maduro has repeatedly won democratic elections tho. he isn't the one doing the coup
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Feb 2, 2019 20:43
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actually, this is a fyad avatar so... gently caress you
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Feb 2, 2019 20:46
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Furia posted:Do you have anything to add to the thread or are you just here to show your true colours as you tell a person encouraging you to donate to charity to go gently caress themselves? if a guy is saying to me that me being so poor as to having to decide between cheese and ham is not a good enough reason not to donate to a catholic church charity, i usually do take that as a sign that he is an arrogant piece of poo poo who doesn't know what the gently caress he's talking about. being informed that you're actually an arrogant piece of poo poo is a valueble piece of info and
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Feb 2, 2019 20:48
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fnox posted:Do something. loving, do nothing, propose an action that would benefit a Venezuelan today. withdrawing american financial sanctions, allowing the venezuelan government access to their foreign bank accounts that the US just donated to Guaido, lifting the blockade and withdrawing the threat of military invasion would be a good list to start off with
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Feb 2, 2019 20:50
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fnox posted:A Venezuelan citizen does not have a choice between cheese or ham. A Venezuelan citizen has probably not seen cheese or ham in loving months. Your problems are in no way comparable with what life is like in Venezuela. You think what you're going through is poverty? You've got access to healthcare, access to electricity, water, education, you live in loving Finland. Furia posted:I think this might be a troll agreedo
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Feb 2, 2019 20:52
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fnox posted:Has he? If you don't have the money to donate, or if you don't like Caritas, find another charity. Simply signalboosting something helps. My point is that there is absolutely nothing of any gain whatsoever coming from that crowd. Nothing. No solutions, no worthwhile commentary, no debate, no assistance, nothing. 
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Feb 2, 2019 21:01
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i'm going to be donating to the charity so that i can have the right to post on a dead internet comedy forum that US backed democratic (my emphasis there) coups are bad
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Feb 2, 2019 21:05
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madeintaipei posted:Last chance before the end-of-the-line. last chance before a US military invasion, yes
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Feb 2, 2019 21:06
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fnox posted:Find a charity. No need to donate to it. Just link to charities that help Venezuelan citizens that are not Caritas. Can you do that? sure i can, then what? can we talk about US coups being bad after ive found some charities for you?
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Feb 2, 2019 21:10
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fnox posted:We have to, at some point, take away all political power from the Venezuelan military, as was the case in the past. Considering how ostensibly militarized the country is now, we would have to begin by cutting dozens of positions created by the Maduro government just to add bureaucracy over bureaucracy. There's currently 33 ministries, 16 of which were created by Maduro. We would have to see how many of them are actually doing anything (I'm assuming poo poo like the 'Ministry for Urban Agriculture' we can cut). 9 ministries are currently ran by military men, if that tells you something. i thought we were supposed to be talking about stuff YOU can do. why haven't you cut those ministeries btw??
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Feb 2, 2019 21:36
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fnox posted:Well, Maduro isn't out yet, that's coming.
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Feb 2, 2019 21:47
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fnox posted:Alright. Why don't you want Maduro removed? Do you believe that he's a good leader? because I do not want to see US putting another pinochet in power on their back yard is why. frankly, I don't give a gently caress about maduro, the PSUV can vote him out if they so please, but US coups do not suddenly become good and democratic just because there's an incompetent in office
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Feb 2, 2019 21:52
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fnox posted:Ok. I give a gently caress about Maduro, he took me out of my country, he forced my family out of my country, he put friends of mine in jail, and he forced me to live in fear. The PSUV can't vote him out because he runs the PSUV, he's their leader. If he's not removed, this year, then Venezuela is bound to experience it's 7th year in a row in freefall. If you do the math, you realise that the crisis has been occurring long, long before any US action was taken. none of which changes the fact that US backed coups always result in an oligarch dictatorship. I've never denied that maduro is a moron, in fact i'm p sure i said that he is a moron, but none of that makes a US backed coup a good thing tm and yeah, the PSUV can't vote him out cuz he's the party leader and they are under the threat of imminent foreign invasion. which maduro no doubt has used in his favour, for a good reason. because pinochet is in fact not an improvement over his incompetent rear end. the only difference for you is that your family gets to return to venezuela, and your friends in jail will be replaced by PSUV members. what you're going to get if Guaido succeeds in his coup is a civil war, that will be brutally suppressed by the US military so good luck and and hope your friends are ok, but replacing maduro with a US backed dictatorship is just going to change who gets to suffer
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Feb 2, 2019 22:07
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fnox posted:I do not, want, a military dictatorship. I do not want the military running anything. If anything like that results from getting rid of Maduro, then I'll be fighting to get rid of it just the same, but there is nothing to loving gain by sitting still. Venezuelans everywhere, they'd rather take a chance than keep poo poo like it is. that is what you will get as a result of a US backed coup, which is why i keep telling you that if you really do care about venezuela, you will not be helping to rid of anything except US sanctions by backing Guaido as an interim president
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Feb 2, 2019 22:20
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| # ¿ May 13, 2024 10:50 |
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fnox posted:but I'll take my chances. I'd rather try anything, than let Maduro rule. hmm
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Feb 2, 2019 22:31
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