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Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Shinjobi posted:

I'm gonna go ahead and say it: I can't stand the worship for the Black Tri-Stars. For whatever reason the fan base has made them out to be more than just villains of the week, and I don't get it.

It doesn't help (for me, anyway) that the dub had them played as rednecks.

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Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

What exactly was the point of Twilight Axis, besides selling more models and making a mediocre attempt at linking Unicorn to F91? Nothing I've read really seems to explain the plot that well, and I can't find it to watch properly anywhere.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

EthanSteele posted:

To be fair Kira's entire deal is pretty much not killing unless he has to.

I'm not sure the show ever bothered to explain why he "had to" cut two warships in half in the first series' last episode. Among the multitude of reasons the CE series have soured on me, lazyass writing like that is a huge reason.

(What powers all these warships without reactors being another dumb but major reason)

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

A pair of random observations while rewatching CCA:

-Older Gundam in general seems to have a really hard time remembering how zero gravity works onboard ships.

-Why the hell are there giant tires lashed to the sides of the Ra Cailum?

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Taintrunner posted:

Texas in Origin is like a Wild West theme too iirc

It's depicted that way in MSG as well, looking pretty much like Texas.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Reading through background material on the OYW, I'm left with a question- is it ever explained why Zeon would gas a bunch of other colonies? Operation British I get, that at least seems like it was directly aimed at attacking the Federation military.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

DamnGlitch posted:

The manga clarifies pretty much all of this and is basically an apology for the jankiness of the ova.

The recent one that includes a G-Fighter for some inexplicable reason?

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

drrockso20 posted:

The G-Fighter is canon, it's just whether or not the White Base had one of those or a Core Booster that is up for debate

I know it's considered canon, it's just that it's next to the Zakrello on my list of "stupid super robot leftovers that are best forgotten."

(That and the weird rainbow colors. Why that didn't stop once Zeta came around I'll never grasp.)

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Having never watched (much) of 0079 subbed, were the Black Tri-Stars voiced as "rednecks" or something similar in Japanese, or was that just a weird directing decision someone at Ocean made when they dubbed it?

Still kind of a shame that they couldn't get Michael Kopsa to reprise the role of Char, though, I have a bit of a hard time hearing him as anyone else in English.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007


A new dub can never replicate the glorious insanity of Mark Oliver's Rau.

https://youtu.be/0Awfq95GSSo

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Arcsquad12 posted:

I wanna get the chance.

'Cause I'm never gonna stop streak my dream.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Mimir posted:

I think Unicorn used the Main Unicorn Theme one or two too many times without enough variation.

Repeating variations on the same tune seems to be a thing that Hiroyuki Sawano just does a lot. It's happened in Kabaneri and Seraph of the End, that I've noticed.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

ManSedan posted:

I can’t believe they called him Pang Hercury.

Edit: at least they kept Bring Stabity.

Because Hank Hercules was better?

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

chiasaur11 posted:

Considering how some of the Titans went forward with their lives, that actually looks good.

By joining Neo Zeon, according to the most recent Advance of Zeta story.

How that makes any sense is beyond me, but then most of Advance of Zeta is weird unexplainable nonsense.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

The BBC posted:

Charles Aznavour, French singing star, dies at 94

https://bbc.in/2Ne80Ku

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Midjack posted:

The manga tells a somewhat abridged version of the story. The video game has the full plot.

The "new" manga they started recently or the original one?

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

RillAkBea posted:

The new one is the full plot in excruciating detail. They're up to chapter 30 something and Efreet and BD-1 are still in play.

But with bonus unnecessary new GM variants, because the OYW wasn't ludicrous enough already.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

AtheistMantis posted:

I really started to think differently about Acguys after reading that manga about these two Zeon pilots stranded after the failed Jaburo attack. They had to walk across 2250 miles of North America, and did crazy things like break dancing, bowling, and whack-a-mole.

Which manga is this :psyduck:

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Gripweed posted:

There's also the issue of where do they expand? Their partnership with Rightstuf is working at a pretty good clip towards getting all Gundam series on bluray in America. And there's a ton of Gundam available on the Gundamofficial Youtube channel. It seems like most comic shops sell Gundam models, and Barnes and Noble carries Gundam models at most of their locations. I'd certainly like to see Barnes and Noble carry a wider range of Gundam models, but I assume that mainly up to Barnes and Noble, not Bandai.

The real criticism I have is how few Gundam manga series get US releases. Since Tokyopop collapsed there's only been three Gundam manga released here. But I think maybe the blame for that lies at least a little on me, I didn't buy the Origin manga because they were thirty dollars a volume.

Bandai itself actually released most, if not all of the 00 related manga (and novels, even) until they went under, so it wasn't just Tokyopop.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

"Oh by the way there was a second Sinanju they also stole" was dumb enough, but really, "oh and also we built a second Neo Zeong?"

I was able to stomach most of Unicorn's weird plot ideas, but this is stretching things a bit further.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

SEED strikes me now as something that was trying way too hard to be "deep and interesting" and it failed miserably at it. Where before we might see decent people on each side, instead we get a few sane people and hordes of crazed people nursing insane murderboners for each other. Which completely undoes any message about discrimination they might have had.

Evidence 01 could have been used as a springboard for something interesting, but instead it's a random background detail that never gets mentioned again, except to make the random, pointless claim that after we found an alien skeleton, religion suddenly stopped being important.

Also how exactly do the PLANTs have any gravity at all?

Plastic_Gargoyle fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Dec 5, 2018

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

The weirdest part of Astray (well, one of them) I that it's used as a vehicle to explain an event in SEED that the show itself never bothers to actually elaborate on namely how Kira survived having the Aegis blow up in his face.

Which, I mean, you have to have some draw for your manga, but this is Halo novels level of not explaining things except in the ancillary material, and the writers for SEED weren't nearly good enough for that to work well.

Once the later sequels started going into the really absurd stuff I rapidly lost interest. (I'm looking at you, Frame Astrays)

Astray R is ugly, but it's not in the same universe of gently caress-ugly as the main SEED and Destiny manga by Iwase. Those have some of the worst art I have ever seen, bar none.

Plastic_Gargoyle fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Feb 19, 2019

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

taichara posted:

If Frame Astrays was the dealbreaker for you, you missed a bullet and you are a lucky soul. VS Astray is some bullshit and this is coming from someone who thinks Gundam Wing Frozen Teardrop is a grand romp.

Got my wacky sidestories mixed up, VS Astray is the one I meant. "Let's move parts around," what brilliant design work.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Warmachine posted:

Have there really been bad dubs of Gundam though? Except for the dubs of the 0079 movie trilogy holy poo poo. Gundam "came of age" in the United States just as anime was hitting the mainstream, so I can't really remember anything that had obnoxiously bad English dubbing. This might all be nostalgia though.

Some of them have janky moments that were probably mandated by need to fit flaps, but I can't recall any that were unwatchable or anything.

Even the bad moments are balanced out by the amazing ones.

Plus, you know, Mark Oliver as Rau Le Creuset:

https://youtu.be/0Awfq95GSSo

I never get tired of that performance, even after I decided I didn't like SEED anymore.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Caros posted:

Also, reading through that LP has introduced me to my new favorite thing:



Almost as dumb as Kondo's love of putting zimmerit on everything Zeon he can draw.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

jackhunter64 posted:

See also Ippei Gyoubu's unfortunate habit of putting sieg runes on a bunch of his mecha designs.

Uh...do you have examples of this? I'd never noticed it before.

Also, Kondo's obsession with comically oversized skirt armor.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Kanos posted:

Devil's advocate here.

It's pretty easy to logically connect/handwave away the first point if you want to, since a big part of the climax of Turn A was the revelation of the Black History to the cast at large and it's very easy to assume that they might try the tack of "okay trying to suppress it ultimately didn't work so maybe we should try to learn from it instead" instead. "We fought one last war and now there is a permanent peace" is about as implausible a conclusion as you can get, even in a show as fundamentally optimistic as Turn A.

The ending to Turn A is fantastic but there's absolutely nothing in it to suggest that humanity has permanently solved human conflict and that mobile suits will never be used to fight again. Hell, the entire plot of G-Reco is nominally peaceful people relearning what war is in real time, because it's been so drat long since a real war was fought that no one remembers how to do it - and yet they're still ready and rarin' to fight.

The UC is treated as ancient, partially-remembered history in the show, not a recent memory. Klim Nick refers to Jahannam like you and I would refer to Gilgamesh, and as said above a central point of the entire show is that war has been gone for so many generations that people don't even know what it means.

Turn A and G-Reco both trip each other up because both of them profess an ending that is an end to conflict. The bad guy warmongers get killed or marginalized and the good guys manage to stuff the warfare genie back in the bottle, at least for the time being. If Turn A takes place after G-Reco, then war began again after the fact. If G-Reco takes place after Turn A, then war began after the fact. You can't escape either series stepping on the other's toes.

That said, I'll agree that Turn A feels like a better bookend than G-Reco does, even though I love both shows.

Edit: For an example of an in-franchise "war is over, forever" ending that is immediately shown to be ephemeral and fleeting, see Gundam Wing, where the TV show ends with a declaration of permanent peace and has the protagonists send their mobile suits off to the sun to melt and then Endless Waltz features them having to chase down their mobile suits because whoops there's a new conflict almost immediately because humans are bastards.

Or Endless Waltz' ending, which says mobile suits are no more forever, and then Frozen Teardrop happens.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Monaghan posted:

that was such a bizarre addition. Wing was decently popular, so I'm really surprised the writer included the " no more sequels ever, gently caress you" at the end of the ova/movie.

I mean, when the guiding philosophy of one of the main characters is "total pacifism" then there's only so many ways you can go with it.

And that's another reason I don't like Wing in retrospect, even as someone who sometimes thinks of myself as a pacifist, Relena's philosophy was dumb as hell.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

tsob posted:

Christ, I hope not; Kondo and Kobayashi's proportions are pretty fugly. Kind of out there for adoption by a mainstream project too. I'm assuming you mean more the inclusion of zimmerit and other such details that increase the verisimilitude of the designs, but even those look out of place on a lot of the designs and take away from the more fantastical element of giant robots as war machines in my opinion. That and I just think it tends to look like rear end. Izubuchi is cool though, so I'd be more than happy to see them take design cues from him.

Zimmerit in no way increases verisimilitude, if anything it does the exact opposite. Some of Kondo's stuff is solid, at least the art for the 0079 manga he did was. It's when he starts doing weird things with giant-rear end skirts, or giving the Sazabi a straight up MG42 that it goes off the rails.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Kingtheninja posted:

Yeah there's that episode where rain pilots the shining gundam and she's getting crippled by the suit being applied.

Edit: although I remember the depiction of that being weirdly sexual so maybe she was the animators were having a good time.

Ftfy. I just assume it's horny animators by default with this stuff.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Tythas posted:

I always thought the idea of the Core fighter was dumb, if you are in a situation where you need to use the corefighters cockpit and not the Gundam's actual cockpit the Gundam is likely to be so hosed up it's not worth the time to try and use it

They're the same cockpit.

E:beaten.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

The learning computer comes up at least once in dialogue in the show, as best I can recall.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

HitTheTargets posted:

I know this is fake because there’s no way they’d make something starring a girl in 2019. If Ecole du Ciel is still going, no one at Sunrise knows about it.

I had to check this and gently caress me, it's still going. They must have gone up through the first Neo Zeon war at that rate.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

NikkolasKing posted:

Is the Glory of Losers manga worth looking into? What does it change from the Wing anime?

It uses the Katoki redesigns.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Tulalip Tulips posted:

I also now want to see AGE. I need to know if it's as bad as you all say it is and at heart I am a completist.

Good luck. I bailed after one episode. Having seen the terrible, terrible character designs was enough.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Gihren's speech is more memorable both because it was actually animated, and, for me at least, the dub actor pretty much nailed it.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Wark Say posted:

I don't know if you're referring to the OG Japanese or to Doug Stone, but the crazy thing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTlmbcxEV0k

... even if the years have certainly done a number on his voice, old man Banjo Ginga still can sound fairly hot-blooded
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaCpbwkNR0w

Funnily enough, the guy who voiced Gihren in the Ocean dub is actually a Japanese guy who does English voiceover, Hiro Kanagawa. As with Michael Kopsa's Char, it's really a shame we couldn't get them in more than just 0079 and CCA for the latter, as they're both excellent.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Omnicrom posted:

The arrows around the base suggest they might finally have decided what the Snow White is supposed to look like. The Snow White's Buster Rifle is called "The Seven Dwarves" and has an array of 7 magic arrows that fire different elements, so the numbers check out at least.

So on the basis of this insanity I checked the Gundam Wiki entry for FT.

:psyduck:

It is as though they looked at the parts of Wing that made very little sense and decided to see if they could top that. It doesn't even sound particularly entertaining, just completely batfuck.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Another casualty of the "what if they used mobile suits for fuckin' everything" fallacy.

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Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

ImpAtom posted:

It is a mobile field hospital. It doesn't carry people inside while moving. It is a MS because it can use the MS as a power source.

Which would make sense if the Zaku in this case wasn't battery powered.

Given the timeline it would still make more sense to use a GINN for that, you don't use the new frontline stuff in rear-echelon roles, particularly in wartime.

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