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DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

brucio posted:

Double post, but interesting thoughts from Peter Stoffer:

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/nova-scotia/peter-stoffer-ndp-name-change-1.3289821


I think becoming the Democrat Party is a bad idea, but separate wings of the party itself could be positive.
Stoffer was a great MP with an insane office, but every one of those ideas seems actively bad and nothing to do with why the NDP lost.

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DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Chicken posted:

How do you design an MMP system where this isn't true?

Let's take a theoretical system where we doubled the number of seats and had the new seats allocated proportionally to the candidates who got the highest vote share in their riding but didn't win. In this case, Saskatchewan would have 28 seats. After this election it went 10con/3ndp/1lib for seats and roughly 50con/25ndp/25lib for vote share. So in this system, the cons would get 4 seats, the ndp 4, and the libs 6 to make the results proportional. The cons would have their four candidates who lost (all in urban ridings) get in. The 4 ndp runners up would be 2 in Saskatoon, 1 in Regina, and 1 in Prince Albert. The 6 lib runners up would be 1 in Regina, 3 in Saskatoon, and 1 in the far north. So all but two of the new MPs would be in urban areas and there wouldn't be any in rural areas south of Prince Albert (which is basically the entirety of the rural population in Saskatchewan).

Doubling the seats seems unrealistic, and with fewer seats I think the results would be just as bad. You could change the way the proportional seats are allocated, but I don't know how you can guarantee any rural representation. I guess you could make the seats go by party list instead and force the parties to have alternating rural and urban people on it? That seems overly complicated and susceptible to in-party corruption and incompetent candidates.

How do you design any system where urban and rural are fairly balanced? Right now rural is over represented. With the existing system as the baseline for the regional representation map under MMP this will still be true whether or not weird cases like Saskatchewan sometimes reverse it locally. You have pointed out to an added virtue of MMP though, in that it might actually balance each party's rural/urban split.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
Reason #768 I'm glad I don't live in Manitoba:

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
Canadians have long had a strange inferiority/superiority complex feedback loop, the dirty little secret is we're really just slightly toned down Americans (and not by much).

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

This story comes out every year, it is absurdly easy to nominate anyone for a Nobel Peace Prize, any elected official or academic can nominate anyone they like. Supposedly even the professor of modern Israel studies at Canada Christian College who nominates Harper every year (but I doubt it).

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

EvilJoven posted:

I'm still waiting for the Libs to start Libbing but so far I'm having to work really hard to keep myself from becoming more than cautiously optimistic.

It's a perfectly sensible policy but not one that limits them from spending as much on p3s as they like. They can expect more gratitude now when they do dole out p3 patronage, since it's not mandatory.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Kafka Esq. posted:

You mean 2010, and Saskatoon has drastically reduced the amount of times the procedure is performed on anyone since then.

But yeah, sounds like a pretty bad culture if they're implying women will be negligent.

Reduced it to 25% of the number of procedures they were performing before, that makes for 74 unnecessary surgeries a year prior to someone raising a stink.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Jan posted:

:psypop:

...You don't even need to understand tax brackets, just to take one minute to actually inform yourself about the loving promise!

The Liberal platform posted:

Canadians with taxable annual income between $44,700 and $89,401 will see their income tax rate fall.
oh gee i make 36k a year this is totes going to apply to me rite!??

The "loving promise" was usually stated as tax cuts for the middle class, how loving stupid of the plebs making the median income to think they qualified as the middle class.

The platform piece your quoting is misleading in itself, everyone with income between 45K and 200k will see their income tax fall.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

cowofwar posted:

The LPC campaigned to make every vote count which is an important distinction being ignored by Pinterest Mom.

Did they explicitly say that? Because ranked ballots do not even attempt to make every vote count (and Trudeau's recent statements make it pretty explicit that ranked ballots are the only reform on offer).

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
A vote for the party that comes in second place in a riding does not count any more under a ranked ballot than it does under FPTP. They'll still elect zero members of parliament and get tossed in the same recycling bin.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

eXXon posted:

All votes are counted even under FPTP. But ignore that amount of pedantry, let's not forget that there are proportional ranked ballot systems (STV) and non-proportional ones (IRV).

Yeah, I'm using "ranked ballot" as short hand for IRV since there is a zero percent chance of the Liberals introducing any sort of proportional system.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
Giving women the vote was a much more dramatic change to our electoral system and that didn't require a referendum.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
Reminder Horwath got 78% in a similar situation (where her tactical decisions were an even more obvious cause of the defeat), the difference is Tom really never had understanding of party organization if he did he`d have at least avoided this public humiliation.

DynamicSloth fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Apr 10, 2016

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Pinterest Mom posted:

So um

how's Megan's French?

I`ve heard good things, but can`t really judge myself.

It must be at least as good as Cullen`s

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Drunk Canuck posted:

The NDP Socialist Caucus is cool and good, now they have 24 months to vet a perfect leader to stop Trudeau

:ssh: The NDP Socialist "caucus" is like 12 dorks in Toronto, none of whom have actually sat in an elected caucus anywhere in Canada. They will have marginal influence on any NDP Leadership contest.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
The difference between Niki Ashton saying something dumb and Justin Trudeau throwing a manic hissy fit in front of cameras because he was late for a reception is that one of them came in seventh of seven in their party's leadership contest and the other is imbued with total control over the legislative and executive branches of government.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

bunnyofdoom posted:

Or what actually happened which was the ndp mps was blocking the conservative whip from getting to his seat.

Yeah they're the minority opposition in a Westminster Parliament pissant stalling tactics are literally the only thing they can do, not really a good excuse for the Prime Minister to lose his head.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

bunnyofdoom posted:

I was referring to the spin that it happened because trudeau was late to reception and was trying to force his way through

Why did he lose it then? The NDP had a zero percent chance of actually stopping any government business.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

PK loving SUBBAN posted:

If my wife was been dumped on unfairly in every newspaper for weeks, I might lose my temper at work too.

Just sayin'

Also, gently caress this dumb country for making me constantly defend Trudeau.

I'm not sure "Prime Minister loses it because his wife is a public figure" is much of a defence either, since she's not going anywhere and he still has to be the Prime Minister everyday.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Brannock posted:

An explanation is not a defense, please learn the difference.

He literally said he was defending Trudeau in the post I quoted.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
If you are freaking out that this will be the fall of the house of Trudeau I'd say relax you are the only one. Trudeau's handlers remains as professional as ever and the quick apology was smart.

If you don't realize why his behavior merited an apology though I can't help you.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

ZShakespeare posted:

The only behaviour that is really stupid here is the NDP blowing this up in a vain attempt to remind Canada that they still exist. Thats what we should be getting an apology for.

Then why did Trudeau apoligize?

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Dallan Invictus posted:

I'm pretty sure everybody realises why his behaviour merited an apology, and I agree with you that it won't do any lasting damage, but what I struggle to understand is why it merits the utterly insane overreaction from the entire Opposition (save Elizabeth May who, and I never dreamed I would say this, is being the model of restraint) and, to a certain extent, the media.

If my boss walked into the office kitchen, yelled at your coworker to "get the gently caress out of the way" and grabbed another coworker by the arm because he was late for a meeting, we probably wouldn't be talking about much else that day either.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Dallan Invictus posted:

I'm pretty sure everybody realises why his behaviour merited an apology,

Which thread are you reading?

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Brannock posted:

Where I'm from, inadvertently bumping into someone warrants an apology, at the very least polite if not sincere
Yeah, posts like this are what I'm talking about. He didn't accidentally bump into someone and mutter sorry under his breath, he visibly lost his cool (for seemingly no matter of import), swore at his colleagues and grabbed an opposition member and dragged him across the floor.

He's also issued at least three formal apologies (which again I agree is the right thing to do).

DynamicSloth fucked around with this message at 16:10 on May 19, 2016

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Brannock posted:


JT approaches, takes Brown by his arm (instead of GRAPPLING HIM AND NEARLY TEARING HIS SLEEVE) and guides him through the crowd.
That's still loving crazy, why in God's name would Trudeau take it upon himself to personally coral other Member's of Parliament. If he was a Liberal back bencher he'd be getting torn a new one by his House Leader right now.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Vintersorg posted:

Because Trudeau was sick of the childish bullshit Mulcair and that other fucker were causing.

The NDP were not sent to Parliament to facilitate the Liberal agenda, not sure why the opposition doing precisely what there name suggests is their job would bother you or the Prime Minister so much, the Liberals were always going to get their way at the end of the day.

Amgard posted:

How it played out is open for discussion, but if you think Trudeau's primary goal was to beat up some opposition: you're definitely drinking the kool-aid the media is mixing.

My position is precisely that of the PMO, that the Prime Minister's behavior in the house was unacceptable and warranted an apology.

Drinking the kool-aid is refusing to admit the guy did anything wrong after he's issued three formal apologies.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

BattleMaster posted:

Lol nice reasoning, "they are called 'opposition' so it's okay for them to body block people in parliament"

Taking it a little literal are we?

It's okay in the sense that every minority opposition party busy themselves with penny ante delay tactics in the face of their complete functional impotence. Which is not to suggest the Speaker wouldn't have told them to move if anyone had bothered to ask.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

BattleMaster posted:

okay please keep trying to whitewash the use of physical voter suppression

Niki's got nothing on you.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
Trudeau said he did something wrong, not sure what is desperate about agreeing with his characterization of the altercation.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
But does every party have such a pathetic, chinless excuse for a man running for its leadership?

Oh look he called for the incarceration of his party's interim leader as well:

https://twitter.com/BradTrostCPC/status/806247094398976000

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Risky Bisquick posted:

That's not how hashtags work. He's replying to Ambrose and tagging the #lockherup conversation not implying she should be locked up. I understand the confusion though, social media is awful.

Seems ambiguous to me, I'll wait for Brad to explain precisely which women he intends to imprison in his dungeon.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
Kouvalis is really earning all those puff pieces MacLeans keeps publishing about him.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
CTV has a few more details

quote:

OTTAWA -- Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is expected to give his year-old cabinet a facelift on Tuesday, shifting some weak ministers and promoting strong performers as his government braces for Donald Trump's imminent ascension to the U.S. presidency.
Sources tell The Canadian Press that the shuffle will involve at least six people.

Those expected to be moved include International Trade Minister Chrystia Freeland, who is believed likely to replace Stephane Dion at Foreign Affairs [:cry:].

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau holds a news conference with his cabinet after they were sworn-in at Rideau Hall, the official residence of Governor General David Johnston, in Ottawa Wednesday, November 4, 2015.
Freeland, a former economics journalist with extensive contacts in the United States, is credited with deftly navigating through some eleventh-hour obstacles that threatened last fall to scupper the Canada-European Union free trade agreement -- potentially valuable experience for dealing with the incoming Trump administration.

Trump, whose inauguration takes place Jan. 20, has vowed to adopt an unapologetically protectionist, America-first policy on trade, including re-opening or even tearing up the North American Free Trade Agreement.

Dion's tenure at Foreign Affairs has been a rocky one, marred by controversy over his approval of a $15-billion arms deal with Saudi Arabia. His prickly demeanour could also be ill-suited to dealing with the unpredictable Trump, who has demonstrated a tendency to easily take offence.

Rumours have swirled for months that Dion was to be named ambassador to France but he has denied any interest in the plum post.

News of the shuffle leaked out Monday, just as the Prime Minister's Office confirmed that Trudeau's two top aides, Katie Telford and Gerald Butts, have been meeting with some of Trump's senior advisers, building bridges to the incoming administration.

Also believed to be in the shuffle mix are Status of Women Minister Patty Hajdu, seen as a strong performer, and Democratic Institutions Minister Maryam Monsef -- widely criticized for her handling of Trudeau's promise to reform Canada's voting system.

Employment Minister MaryAnn Mihychuk is also expected to be moved.

Sources, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to disclose details publicly, expect at least one new face in cabinet: Francois-Philippe Champagne, parliamentary secretary to Finance Minister Bill Morneau.
In his first cabinet of 30 ministers, Trudeau famously appointed an equal number of men and women "because it's 2015." That parity was upset last fall when Hunter Tootoo resigned from cabinet and the Liberal caucus to seek treatment for alcohol addiction following what he later admitted was an inappropriate relationship with a female staffer.

The addition of Champagne would restore the gender balance, assuming Dion remains in cabinet in some capacity.

Another insider, speaking anonymously to discuss details not yet made public, said Tuesday's modest shuffle is part of a strategy to gradually renew the cabinet team, rather than conduct one massive shake-up midway through Trudeau's first mandate.
Another realignment of ministerial positions is likely in the summer before kicking off the second half on the mandate in the fall with a throne speech, said the insider.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
Someone sure wanted to take a dump on Dion's reputation on the way out. Liberals are always nastiest to their own.

Stéphane Dion’s poor communication skills led to cabinet ouster

quote:

Stéphane Dion, considered an unlikely diplomat by some fellow Liberals, was removed as foreign affairs minister after just 14 months on the job because the Trudeau government felt it needed someone more skilled at the delicate task of steering Canada-U.S. relations in the Trump era.

The veteran of more than 20 years in federal politics is now weighing a job offer from Justin Trudeau that is believed to be an ambassadorship to the European Union or other posts in Europe. If Mr. Dion takes the job, his new boss would be Chrystia Freeland, who replaced him Tuesday as foreign affairs minister in a cabinet shuffle.

Liberals who have worked with the 61-year-old Mr. Dion, a former academic, describe him as extremely intelligent and hard-working, but some say he can be idiosyncratic, prickly and, that within government, he’s not considered a master communicator.

After taking the helm at Global Affairs, Mr. Dion struggled to defend why the centre-left Trudeau government was proceeding with a deal brokered by Ottawa to sell $15-billion of combat vehicles to Saudi Arabia, a human-rights pariah. He insisted the deal, first clinched by the Harper government, was beyond the Liberals’ control before it emerged that Mr. Dion himself quietly approved the export of the military goods, despite rules that sought to restrict shipment of weapons to countries that abuse their citizens.

“I think it’s fair to say he kind of stumbled out of the starting gate with the Saudi arms deal … and he never really regained his stride,” said Fen Hampson, distinguished fellow at the Centre for International Governance Innovation.

Mr. Dion took heat last June for standing by silently as China’s foreign minister berated a Canadian journalist for asking about Beijing’s human-rights record during a press conference. Mr. Trudeau later acknowledged how inappropriate the Chinese envoy’s behaviour was and said Ottawa had complained to Beijing.

Another long-time Liberal who has worked with Mr. Dion said he lacks sufficient ability to read people – a challenge when navigating Washington under U.S. president-elect Donald Trump, a politician who has demonstrated he can be quick to take offence.

“The No. 1 job of a diplomat, especially the top diplomat, is relationships,” the Liberal said. “It’s all about relationships. [Mr. Dion] has got a bunch of strengths, but that is one area in which he was the wrong fit.”

Mr. Hampson said it’s apparent the Trudeau team chose to go with someone who’s a better schmoozer.

“Trump is the great communicator and I think [the Prime Minister’s Office has] come to the conclusion that they need a foreign minister who is also going to be an effective communicator at a time when there is a risk we could get sideswiped on a whole bunch of issues from auto trade to softwood lumber,” Mr. Hampson said.

Mr. Dion released a statement wishing Ms. Freeland luck, calling his service in Ottawa an “incredible adventure” and saying he plans to “deploy my efforts outside active politics” in the future. His office said he is “weighing a substantial offer with his family that is befitting his service and experience.”

Mr. Trudeau told reporters he’s asked Mr. Dion to take on an extremely important role internationally, but did not elaborate.

An ambassadorship would be a final coda to Mr. Dion’s career in public service that began in 1996 and saw him win the Liberal leadership in 2006, lose the 2008 election and then come close to becoming prime minister in a possible coalition government before being outmanoeuvred by Stephen Harper.

The Montreal MP may be best remembered for his work fighting separatism in the government of former Liberal prime minister Jean Chrétien following the 1995 Quebec referendum to leave Canada that was only narrowly defeated.

As Mr. Chrétien’s minister of intergovernmental affairs, Mr. Dion was an unflinching voice for federalism when it wasn’t a popular position in Quebec. He worked to counter false or misleading propositions by separatist voices. He was portrayed as a rat in some political cartoons, but he never backed down.

He sponsored the Clarity Act, which sets the terms under which Ottawa would negotiate the secession of Quebec after a Yes vote in a referendum to separate. The law says a clear question and a clear majority are required, but that Parliament will ultimately decide whether conditions have been met. Despite warnings from federalists and separatists alike, this did not feed a backlash in Quebec.

“On some very big, almost existential questions, such as the unity file … he was exactly the right guy and in his professorial, awkward persona, he kind of communicated that: that he was a guy who wasn’t going to mess around with the future of our country and was not afraid to say and do the right thing,” said Peter Donolo, who served as director of communications to Mr. Chrétien.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Furnaceface posted:

I thought he wasnt even getting a position as a diplomat and was basically being sent over to Europe to vanish from the public eye.

Scuttlebutt is that he was offered a concurrent ambassadorship to the EU and Germany a sort of super ambassadorship, but also that he was given no advanced notification.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Hal_2005 posted:

He was given notification as per The Hill vs. Globe & Mail quote.

Obviously he was informed at some point, but I think the fact that he was still making up his mind about whether to take the position yesterday indicates it wasn't like 2 weeks ago.

Very clear from the Globe story he's still got a lot of enemies in the party, though I doubt Trudeau or his brain trust were directly responsible for the smear quotes.

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Am I just old, do people actually want to watch tv shows on their smart phones?

DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
How many Canadian did we send off to die to in Afghanistan in order to honour our NATO Article 5 treaty obligation to the United States? That same United States, incidentally, whose new President just informed the world that said treaty is now obsolete.

DynamicSloth fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Jan 16, 2017

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DynamicSloth
Jul 30, 2006

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Rime posted:

Well he sucks a tremendous amount of dick in return for money, so I imagine the protein overload on top of whatever lavish meals he's buying is probably bad for the metabolism. :shrug:
I think the truth, namely that he's a 48 year old bachelor who has pledged to remain a virgin until marriage, is a tad more embarrassing.

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