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Mango Polo posted:Keep in mind a couple of things about that ability to incorporate another legion-specific units: Going off what I'm reading, doesn't Coils also forbid traitor units from taking any of their home legion's unique wargear, and swap their home legion's rules for the Alpha's? So Imperial Fists terminators (something he mentioned as something he wanted to grab) would just be bog standard Alpha Legion terminators - what makes Fist terminators really good is their legion's rules and equipment.
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Nov 9, 2015 01:08
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Well there was a chunk of loyalist EC led by Saul Tarvitz. Don't know if any made it off Isstvan but since they've been so cagey about Saul's death they might be saving it for a novel with him getting off planet. Rylanor was also a loyalist and he disappeared on Istvaan, no word on his fate either way. Hell, there was a loyalist Word Bearer in one of the books. Would also be easy to justify some loyalist as EC as a company that was off in the rear end-end of the galaxy and is now very confused as they're trying to come back and reestablish contact with the Imperium. That's how a bunch of loyalist Iron Warriors show up in the books - just companies and detachments who completely missed the corruption of their legion and are siding with the Imperial loyalists because what the gently caress happened to their legion.
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Nov 9, 2015 03:58
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OhDearGodNo posted:I'm sure I even read about the most steadfast legions like the SW/UM/IF having some parts break away. One of the preview images for Shattered Legions in the next HH book included a traitor Space Wolf tank, so yep.
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Nov 9, 2015 04:06
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For Alpha Legion stolen units chatter, I don't actually play the tabletop myself ($$$ reasons mainly), but I run a Rogue Trader campaign and all of my players do play the strategy game as well. One plays Alpha Legion in 30k, so I asked her out of curiosity what she usually takes as her stolen unit. She says the Iron Warrior super terminators combined with the Alphas' mutable tactics have never let her down, though lately she's been trying borrowed Invictarus Suzerains (from the Ultramarines) for a melee-oriented list.
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Nov 9, 2015 19:37
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AndyElusive posted:I would even suggest reading Know No Fear if you're interested in knowing just how much fuckery the Word Bearers started by going all in at Calth and the reaction it gets out of the Ultramarines. It's also about the best book out there for the Ultramarines. It shows them and especially Guilliman at their most human, fallible, and interesting.
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Nov 9, 2015 20:51
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krushgroove posted:Thanks for that, good info! I'll put it in a Google Doc file I keep for notes. According to my friend, the main value of bringing Tyrant Siege Terminators in an Alpha Legion list is the assumption that your Mutable Tactics is going to be Tank Hunters - something the Tyrants themselves can't typically get as part of an Iron Warriors list that makes them a lot more useful (and, incidentally, solves that Tyrants vs Fulmentari debate once and for all). Likewise with Invictarus Suzerains, bring them when you're intending to use Mutable Tactics to give them a trait they can't normally get that will improve their functionality significantly. She says that's basically the key to maximizing Rewards of Treason's unique benefit: you can get Scout, Infiltrate, Tank Hunters, Counter Attack, Move Through Cover, or Adamantium Will on a unit that normally can't get that. Don't think of it as a special extra part of your army, think about "What can I get that's going to fill a role better than the mundane options I have for that task?"
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Nov 10, 2015 00:04
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The Sisko posted:As stated earlier I know very little about chaos demons and after much thought I thought I think the Cult lists make for better ally than demons and would probably be a lot more fun for the opponent. Basically, what's your tolerance for randomness and what exactly do you want out of your allies? What do you want them to bring that you do not have, either due to the limitations of your codex in general or your army's particular construction?
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Nov 10, 2015 01:16
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panascope posted:After Horus shithouses Sanguinius I'm going to smash your models with a hammer. I'm guessing Horus will stay king poo poo of primarch mountain, though I could see Sanguinius being able to give him a run for his money. Sanguinius will probably be much more mobile to boot, comparable to Corax. Maybe a more straight-up fighting oriented version of Corax in general. Leman Russ is probably going to be a beatstick with some buffs to the army, and Magnus is obviously going to be a monstrous psyker, but I'm wondering how the Khan and Lion are going to shake out. In the books neither seem to be anything special in combat, though the Lion could be a support-oriented primarch.
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Nov 10, 2015 02:41
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serious gaylord posted:Russ and especially Khan will be setup to kill other Primarchs I think. Sanguinius will be the Loyal sides version of Horus, as in able to kick the poo poo out of any other Primarch they come across, but he will of course lose against him. I don't get why Khan would be set up to kill other primarchs. In the story so far, he's fought exactly one and that one was a draw (against Mortarion). They aren't going to release rules for the Emperor. Ever.
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Nov 10, 2015 16:07
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Eh, just say it's a clone by Fabius Bile or a duplicate due to Warp fuckery from an alternate timeline or whatever. I don't think most people are going to care that much whether you're ostensibly loyalist or traitor on the tabletop.
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Nov 10, 2015 17:41
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serious gaylord posted:Khan is described as a very very very good fighter, and routinely mentioned as at the top of the pile by the other Primarchs. Eh... every primarch gets hyped up, and Khan says himself in Scars that his only particular strength versus other primarchs is that none of them have ever seen him fight and so don't know what to expect. I'd expect him to be very hit-and-run oriented. I really, really don't think they're going to release rules for the Emperor unless they're "You lose."
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Nov 10, 2015 19:05
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serious gaylord posted:Yeah they will. You go back less than 5 years and you'd have said that about Primarchs too. Nah, once the Horus Heresy books started rolling out I figured it was only a matter of time until rules started appearing in some form for the Legions and Primarchs.
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Nov 10, 2015 20:23
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ijyt posted:Started reading False Gods, interested to see how Horus, after seeing the poo poo going on on the moon, decides "yep this is my cup of tea". Blame Lorgar. No, seriously, blame Lorgar.
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Nov 10, 2015 23:04
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BirdieBedtime posted:Phobos is the fancy-schmancy way to refer to the standard Land Raider during the Heresy, since there's a gazillion variants running around in the standard lists. And Mechanicum gets a build-a-raider kit that lets the player make almost any raider version in 30k or 40k, or even unique examples that don't obey the standard versions.
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Nov 12, 2015 02:58
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Hauki posted:As a hypothetical aside, I've been looking for tough/shooty traitor legions, anything I should look into besides Death Guard and Iron Warriors? Neither excite me much aesthetically, although I sorta like the fluff of death guard at least. Those two are the tough/shooty legions among the traitors, unfortunately. World Eaters, Night Lords, and Emperor's Children are all very melee-oriented. Sons of Horus and Alpha Legion can go either way.
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Nov 13, 2015 00:30
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A couple of friends are playing a round of tabletop 3/40k while my gaming group plays a session of Rogue Trader in the same room. Ultramarines legion list vs. 40k-era Cult Mechanicus/Skitarii list. Was hilarious to see Roboute accomplish little of note before getting vaporized by the skitarii shooting.
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Nov 14, 2015 00:23
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:roboute was nearly killed by 10 schmucks what do you expect To say nothing of radium jezzails and whatever the gently caress those AdMech spiderbots were carrying. 
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Nov 14, 2015 00:53
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nopantsjack posted:Anybody know anything about White Scars? I'd probably play them if I could learn to paint white right because then I'd be a proper special snowflake and good guy Mongol marines are the best. They're scheduled to be in the next book, I believe. Right now they just have a relic. I'd expect lots of [jet]bikes for their Rite of War.
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Nov 14, 2015 13:43
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DeadGame posted:The FW staff's lore writing is better than GW's. Emperor's Children embracing perfection to offset the near total loss of their geneseed makes a lot of sense. They believed they couldn't spare any mistakes in battle because the loss of a single life was more costly to them than the other Legions. Eventually this value set became warped towards perfection for perfection's sake and let Slaanesh in. I could definitely see building and painting EC. You can credit Graham McNeil with that, actually. It's how he characterized the EC in the Horus Heresy novel Fulgrim, which I think was before the 30k tabletop stuff started. The key to Fulgrim's damnation was his fear of failure and inability to admit mistakes.
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Nov 16, 2015 00:45
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ijyt posted:So about as long a time as my stuff usually goes unpainted, cool. Supposedly the next book is Dark Angels, Blood Angels, White Scars, and Shattered Legions, then the next after that is Space Wolves, Thousand Sons, Adeptus Custodes, and Sisters of Silence.
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Nov 17, 2015 00:36
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DeadGame posted:What are Shattered Legions? All the loyalist joes who survived Istvaan and don't have a home? I thought they got absorbed into the Ultramarines or became grey knights or something. Shattered Legions are groups of who the gently caress knows which legions bound together by circumstance - say, some Raven Guard and Salamanders grabbed a Thunderhawk and got off Istvaan, then scooted on an Alpha Legion strike cruiser which had also picked up some loyalist Death Guard fleeing the purge of their legion, or some Iron Hands who gave up after Ferrus' death and fell in with some Night Lords who were also playing host to a squad of Emperor's Children that had fallen out of Fulgrim's favor.
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Nov 17, 2015 04:11
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SteelMentor posted:Go Alpha Legion, and steal all the other Legions' poo poo Play a good legion, don't need to steal all the other Legions' poo poo.
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Nov 18, 2015 01:49
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Recoome posted:Ughhh can Garviel Loken actually take the Black Reaving rite of war? I think it's pretty weird because I thought that was a Traitor RoW for after Istvaan V. I don't think any of the Rites are affiliation-restricted except for The Dark Brethren. Other than the Word Bearers, Rites seem to be for how that legion particularly fought, pre-Heresy or during.
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Nov 19, 2015 01:47
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BaconCopter posted:List building in 30k seems infinitely more strategic then in 40k. It's quite a shame that Thousand Suns have always been my favorite Pre/Heresy-era legion, here's hoping they won't be a giant turd. For what it's worth, FW said they'll be getting their own psychic discipline. I wonder if it will be something like every sergeant is an ML1 psyker.
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Nov 20, 2015 22:10
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BULBASAUR posted:Some of them do, yeah. It was FAQed or added into LACAL, I don't remember how it happened exactly. Tyrants as troops is a pretty popular choice. Tyrants are also a very popular choice for Rewards of Treason, incidentally, from what I've been reading various places online. Tank Hunters really helps them out and gives the Alphas a very nice heavy-duty shooting unit.
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Nov 21, 2015 01:43
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DO IT TO IT posted:Tyrants don't come with Tank Hunters, right? I thought they only come with Wrecker and you had to put a Siege Breaker with them to get Tank Hunters. Correct, which is why they're popular for the Alpha Legion to grab, since Rewards of Treason means you can bestow Tank Hunters on Tyrants if you choose that for the Alphas' Mutable Tactics.
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Nov 21, 2015 03:28
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I'm expecting a book to come out sooner or later that's nothing but named characters for the legions, myself. Add game stats for legion personalities from the books and other media, like Torgaddon and Little Horus for the Sons, Acerbus Krieg and Zso Sahaal for the Night Lords, etc.
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Nov 21, 2015 22:01
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BULBASAUR posted:There's a whole thread on B&C about IF players bitching about Dron's chainsword. Poor guys. 1d4chan did some math work, and Dorn sadly enough comes out near the bottom of the primarch heap. I'm not bothered myself. Dorn's got Sigismund for when real killing needs to be done.
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Nov 28, 2015 20:33
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Recoome posted:The stars are really weird, and I don't think the chests actually suit Mk 2 armour, but the helmets are cool as hell. I don't think the designers really had a clear outline on what they wanted the Iron Warriors to be, and didn't really have an aesthetic for them, which has resulted in this bizarro mix between clean/futuristic chestpieces with stars and the helmets which are in the more traditional Iron Warriors style (one of the helmets is really close to the GW IW upgrade helmet, except sans horns). Angel Exterminatus was a meh book in general, but it gave the Iron Warriors an Ottoman vibe in places. That would be an interesting aesthetic to run with for them, and pretty distinct from any other legion's current motif.
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Nov 29, 2015 03:44
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SRM posted:I liked that it made Perturabo a huge nerd who built models and played tabletop wargames In all seriousness war games are a long-established and respected part of the real-world military, and the book shows Perturabo and friends using them for their intended purpose. None of the other books have shown Astartes sitting down to actually plan their war campaigns and rehearse plans and strategies for battles they expect to fight. Excusable in some cases like the World Eaters, but you'd think the Ultramarines would have made a point of war gaming beyond some simple chatter in Know No Fear about the best way to kill orks.
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Nov 29, 2015 18:38
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Recoome posted:I think the Dork Angels scheme is actually a bit lazy. As if there aren't enough black armoured Loyalist space marines around. Unfortunately, that's been established as their pre-Heresy scheme for a long time.
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Dec 6, 2015 00:38
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Recoome posted:Space Wolves are so Khornate it's not even funny. Right down to the hatred of psykers But not rune priests. Who are totally not psykers, no sir.
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Dec 6, 2015 04:04
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I hope there's a loyalist Word Bearers Rite. Out of all the rogue members of loyalist legions and loyal members of rogue legions, I find the idea of loyalist Word Bearers the most interesting because the pre-Monarchia Word Bearers would fit in perfectly in the 40k Imperium and indeed be highly lauded for it. Loyalist Word Bearer legionnaires would be an amazingly smug bunch of I-told-you-so.
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Dec 6, 2015 10:33
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SteelMentor posted:Yeah, thought the fluff always stated that every single Word Bearer was converted to Chaos or murdered before the Heresy, hence their Chaplains becoming Dark Apostles and whatnot. An interesting idea but there probably wouldn't be enough of them to fill a Rhino never-mind a fighting force. Would be the smuggest Rhino going though. There's already been a loyalist Word Bearer in one of the Horus Heresy novels. According to him, while most of the legion did convert the Emperor-worshipers simply went underground with their cult.
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Dec 7, 2015 02:07
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:because they are also really, really, really good, and probably a reason why people are choosing to play word bearers Helps that they have a pretty neat story in one of the Horus Heresy novels, one of the very few legion-specific units to have actual fluff and story role in any of the books.
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Dec 7, 2015 07:13
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DeadGame posted:If you need the army list rules, get the red "Legiones Astartes" book from forge world. It also has an affordable price. (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/The-Horus-Heresy-Legiones-Astartes-Crusade-Army-List) Also note that some legions don't have rules or units yet. If you want to play Dark Angels, Blood Angels, White Scars, Space Wolves, or Thousand Sons you still have to wait for full rules and whatnot. There's also a few non-Marine armies that are designed for the 30k environment: the Mechanicum, Solar Auxilia, and Imperial Militia.
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Dec 10, 2015 06:03
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AndyElusive posted:The only thing about him I question is where the gently caress is his crazy whip? I think it's because the books and artwork can never agree what the hell Corax uses to fight with, so they just call it "Panoply of the Raven Lord." He's usually twin lightning claws, but sometimes he's shredding people with his razor-sharp wings, burning stuff to death with his jetpack exhaust, sometimes he has one or two power whips, his tabletop stats make him dual-wield pistols, etc.
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Dec 24, 2015 21:38
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Mango Polo posted:Off hand, Power Daggers are a cheap way of giving models an extra attack depending on their other weapon(s) and Coils is very restrictive but allows for a pretty shocking army. Typically they don't do any one thing amazingly, they just have a lot of neat ways to use everything else. But Lernaean Terminators are kinda bizarre and hard to use and Headhunters don't distinguish themselves from the generic unit they are based on. The signature weird thing about the Alphas is a perk of Coils: they can steal a unique unit from another Legion, substituting the Alphas' rules in place of its home legion's rules. Not only does this mean the Alphas have access to a wide variety of powerful units (just one for the list, mind) that can fill in any holes the list is otherwise lacking, the Alphas' rules can potentially make said units much stronger than they are in their home legion. Tyrant Siege Terminators gaining Tank Hunters, for example.
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Jan 12, 2016 22:58
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LordAba posted:Eldar direavenger exarch has a power armor scale spear. Good luck finding it at a decent price? Scavenge fantasy bits boxes?
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Jan 13, 2016 01:34
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Safety Factor posted:This though? This is totally workable. A giant armored fist that unloads at short range. Isn't their legion-specific wargear really good, though?
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Feb 6, 2016 22:56
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Too bad about the legion rules though.