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Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Coming back to this after a while, is there a mod to change the iron sights zoom back to the pre crimefest way and is HUDList completely hosed or do I need to keep fiddling with it?

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Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Are people still fartforcing? What's the preferred use of points above and beyond farting and fatsuit? I don't think there's enough for inspire.

Also for new page

Tulip posted:

Coming back to this after a while, is there a mod to change the iron sights zoom back to the pre crimefest way and is HUDList completely hosed or do I need to keep fiddling with it?

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Psion posted:

I have a grinder inspire/suppressor build which is superior in my opinion because you get Inspire+farts (medbag deployable), but if you want ICTV, Inspire, and silencer skills you should look into Pirate Perfection :v:

With the LMGs being incredibly good these days it's both fun and effective. Take a Buzzsaw.

Didn't say I wanted all of them. My typical grindr uses feedback so not that much of a change to grab silencer skills instead.

What's the selling point on the buzzsaw?

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


SCAR is part of Weapon Pack 01.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


So you want the flamethrower?

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Finally did overdrill. We nearly ran out of medical supplies but it was actually pretty doable.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


BillmasterCozb posted:

$24.99

this is a dating sim video game that is twenty four ninety nine

i am mad at lovely video games

Over 375,000 words. That's like 150 words a penny!

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


lol there's a negative accuracy boost for the steakout

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Dr Cheeto posted:

I put one on a well done flamethrower, which with fully loaded basic brings total ammo up to 600.

But this conflicts with piling on more damage.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


I've personally thought about doing an LP, but I have no idea what the best way to show poo poo off would be. Just start with XXV-100 folks and just go through heists? Just let the thread vote on heists to show off until interest drops off / shadow raid wins?

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Literal Nazi Furry posted:

I will ruthlessly troll and flame the jp36 defenders in this thread till my last breath

The JP36 was never a bad gun.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Discendo Vox posted:

edit: I just realized: this is probably the closest we are going to get to an undertale crossover.

I'm not the only one who thought of that.

Kikas posted:

So we've finally arrived at this moment.

this is the Payday 2 GOAT Edition.

GOAT Of All Time.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


We need somebody to make a mod replicating that bug just like we did with infinite corpses.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Puistokemisti posted:

It's ok to hate RPG if you think that it trivializes Winters, Dozers and turrets but those are pretty much only targets it's worth using on. So if you make them immune to RPG, the weapon either needs a rework or should be just disabled.

Wait since when was the RPG good against turrets?

BillmasterCozb posted:

He called me a retard for spending money on it :v:

:aslol:

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good





Kikas posted:

Well poo poo's it's Muffet.


Manuel Calavera posted:

I need to know the specifics. Couldn't find that pattern.

This is the important stuff c'mon man.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Probably. With the current environment Death Wish is a nice difficulty level.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Coolguye posted:

boy goddamn howdy these last couple pages were a right joy to read except that they made me want to disfigure my face

Well yes they are probably the worst, least productive pages the thread has had to date, on the plus side I actually kind of like this mask:

Psion posted:

Let's post mask roulettes instead.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


I think discussing C4 in such terms is kind of mistaken. We all know the reason people use technician is for bulletproof, so we may as well consider bulletproof a 40 point skill with some stupid drill bonuses along for the ride. C4 should be considered in terms of how much it pushes you over 40 (which is 3) and how it competes with other ways of climbing technician (specifically Shockproof, which can get you up with no wastage), and what those points might be better spent on. So if you're making a techforcer, you're giving up 3 points and Shockproof to get C4. I'm not sure how much mileage you actually get out of those 3 points, since this build has Bulletproof, Ironman, and Swan Song. So you'd be giving up Fast Hands and Cat Burglar I guess?

But really you're giving them up for very marginal gain. It's useful a handful of times (AT is the strong one, but it's useful on BB if you can't find both keycards, good for Firestarter days 1 & 2, and uh I dunno probably something), but shockproof is kind of always great.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


John Murdoch posted:

Also they made Sharpshooter, which was originally a pretty decent filler skill, basically worthless. I'm actually left wondering if they completely hosed up their math on that, rather than intentionally nerfing it.

Sharpshooter screws up your loco etc., making it worse than useless imho.

Fellis posted:

Somewhere in the explosives skill tree (no change in points invested) should be 50% faster reload with things that go boom incl HE shotgun (stacks with shotgun reload) and HE arrows/crossbow bolts. Also explosive resistance for danger close operations.

This would be a great idea.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


I can't remember pre-courier well, but post courier the '16 was critical since it could hit 50, aka the "i don't need the techshot bonus" breakpoint.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


I am a conscientious objector to Guessing Game.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good




Who the gently caress designed this goddamn water fountain.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Discendo Vox posted:

What's wrong with it? The faucet on the left is for filling bottles, and has clearance sufficient that you won't hit your head on it while using the drinking component.

The faucet on the right is at the back of the fountain.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Discendo Vox posted:

So? It's a common design. the relative position of the fountain only becomes an issue if the fountain is recessed.

First, drat, I've never seen one like that but I'm not exactly a water fountain expert. Second, either your google fu is incredible or you know a lot about water fountains.

LuciferMorningstar posted:

This is the weirdest tangent.

I can think of weirder but I don't want to bring them up.

Unpopular opinion: I like locking mods behind achievements. The problem with the sniper achievements was that several were painful and grindy.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Two guaranteed on Hotline 2 and you don't need to finish the mission to do it. So you average about 0.5 dozers a minute on that heist. Still, that one is also on the naughty list.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Crabtree posted:

Locked part achievements immediately hit rock bottom on Assault Pack's Not Today. I remember being really happy getting that on accident like maybe a few days in after its release and then feeling sorry for all the people wanting to catch a cloaker jumping, only for them to hit them running or being the one jumped.

Remember that it wasn't jump kicking, it was jumping, like it does to get over cars.

God I'd totally blacked that one out.

Looking back, the Sniper ones are a mixed bag (Surprise Motherfucker is a good example, Last Action Villian a bad one). Big Bank was generally fine. Shotgun ones were fun even if 50 shields with slugs was probably a little much. Assault was also a mixed bag, though I'd lean towards bad just because of Not Today. Hotline was fun other than Overdose being a little stupid (and the names not matching up to the masks :mad:). Historical was mostly fun. AK/CAR was almost entirely fun. Bomb Heists was also OK.

So there weren't even a lot of achievements doing this, and probably 5 of them were bad (the ziplining Sniper ones, 25 dozers and jumping cloaker for assault, and maybe Shotgun 101). Still, Not Today is so memorably bad as to sort of taint the whole pool.

Discendo Vox posted:

Turns out I asked the long guide author about this:

"There are 5 different events that can occur after the door is gone: Bulldozers, 2 Cloakers, smoke grenades, ordinary SWATs, nothing. The game picks 4 out of 5 on OK+DW and 3 out of 5 on H+VH (but additionally evaluates a 45% chance for Bulldozers and does nothing otherwise)."

So 80% odds. Good enough!

Thanks for looking that up, that's pretty cool.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Aced Uppers looks Ace.

Does Aced Uppers trigger Aced Quick Fix?

I have this feeling like this is going to be like the big gun rebalance - we all hate it at first and after a month we think it's rad.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


I like the new trees, they look fun to use.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


LuciferMorningstar posted:

Shotguns are very usable, even without skills. With all the skills, they're basically the best weapons in the game.

Pretty much yeah.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


I'd rather have Feedback than have unused ammo bags tbh.

swims posted:

I pretty much never open atms with them but off the top of my head these jobs have atms

Diamond shop
Election Day bank
Four stores
Big bank has the lockpick one. Can't remember if regular atm
Street escape
Mall
Big oil 1
Regular and firestarter banks
Hoxton 1

Goat day 1 has a few.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


swims posted:

Of all the stuff that's left over to get Kilmer it's the most... Intriguing I guess? I don't use medpacks. Don't need zip ties. Hand guns and the band aid skills don't apply to me.

Here's my build if you wanna see an xbox1 plebe build. I use a JP and Mac 10. Rogue/ occasional infiltrator.

http://pd2skills.com/#/v3/mnkmhJEfGDa:eiGDa:tJEGbDa:grNOlHIjeFGCDa:fda:ibcdea:::

Have you ever had SS trigger properly? I don't know that I've ever seen it actually work.

Anyevent, I'm not sure what the goal of your spec is.

This gets you Aced Feedback, Aced Kilmer, Aced Stun Resistance, and Aced Inspire for good measure, mostly by dropping drill skills and cleaning up Ghost a little bit. I modded out the guns, not sure if that's to your liking but they should do. I don't have strong enough opinions about SMGs and bullethose ARs to give much insight.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


S o this is premature cuz we haven't seen fugitive, but my insomnia is killing me so here are some thoughts so far about the skill revamp. Just for easy reference, here are links to the four skill trees







My tl;dr is that we're going to see a lot of medic+commando and medic+armorer.

  • Unless I'm misunderstanding something dramatically, there's no real difference between a “class” and a “tree,” and the whole “tree” / “subtree” thing seems purely academic, so that means we're sitting on 15 classes/trees, which I'll just call trees.

  • It takes 28 skill points to cap out a tree, 42 to get everything in it. You can, with efficiency, get 3 top tier skills (28*3=94<100). So we can get triple classes. Cool. Ignoring the possibility of maxing out one tree, I think that means 42 potential combinations?

  • If you take 3 cap skills, you'll have 10 points leftover to play with, which allows you to take one aced tier 2 skill, or two aced tier 1 skills + two basic tier 1 skills.

  • My first instinct is that, like now, the most important use of skills is to get defensive skills. Unless the CTV is closer to the ICTV in quality or you're running LBV grindr, you're going to want to cap out Armorer or get at least Sneaky Bastard in Commando. So as a rule that's one of three down. The two don't synergize well so there's not much reason to take both, meaning we're probably looking at the same fat man / little boy divide we have now.

  • One of the skill trees has Ace Inspire, so that feels like a no-brainer. So now we're picking 1 Defensive + Medic + 1 Other.

  • I don't feel like getting into a slap fight over whether or not ECM Feedback is useful loud (I think it is) so let's strike out Covert Ops for the moment.

  • Assuming that my math skills haven't completely failed me, 1 Defensive + Medic + 1 Other leads to 22 builds that will generally see the light of day.

In our current environment, there are 9 possible dual-builds (14 if you count going deep in one tree), of which three really get any use (Masterforcer, Fugimind, Techforcer). Most of the new builds, on the face of it, seem pretty good, so we'll basically have Heavy/Light Engineer/Breacher/Oppressor. This is a huge increase in variety.

It also looks like we're not really going to see a lot of deployables that aren't medical, since if you want to bring any decent amount of deployable, you pretty much need to take Engineer, Breacher, Ammo Specialist, or Covert Ops, which are some of the less sexy trees when you put them next to Silent Killer and Oppressor. While the likely lack of Ammo Specialist means little for most weapons due to the ammo pick up changes, it does give a slight stealth nerf to the RPG.

One interesting switch up is that instead of needing 2 Techforcers (meaning 2 people without Inspire Ace) for Armored Transport, you want 2 Breachers + 1 person with Portable Saw (which can be one of the Breachers), with all four players having Inspire Ace. Overall the Saw is much more accessible.

I really, really hope they add more skill build slots.

Tulip fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Apr 11, 2016

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


LuciferMorningstar posted:

I'd argue, however, that it's moderately plausible that we could see people stop short of Inspire, since you could maybe create passive "inspire fields" with clever FAK placement. You'd save yourself 10 points by going that route, and if you're really scrimping and saving, well...

So this got me thinking. You can get most of the benefit of Ace Inspire for 18 points, and you can get basic Sneaky Bastard for 13 points, which is 25 points shaved off. Which, combined with the leftover points anyway, gets you enough for a 4th tree. I was thinking something like semi-Medic, semi-Commando, Silent Killer, and Shotguner with silenced Raven and Loco gets you to detection 4 aka max dodge. Or swap out Shotguner for Oppressor and take a Clarion and Krinkov for 7 detection risk (19 dodge rather than 20) or a CAR-4 will push you down to 3.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


RandallODim posted:

If you can't get behind the Payday gang using their now-supervillain-esque resources to do some petty crime, I don't know what to tell you besides 'try sending an RPG into the vase shop'.

:agreed:

Four Stores is actually one of my favorites.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


My thoughts so far:

  • Medic: Ace Inspire remains in the game, so this will likely be among if not the most commonly picked tree. Both medical deployables are here, so that also means a TON of medical deployables will be around.
  • Controller: Hostage Taker is an excellent skill for dodge builds, we all know that. Endurance also synergizes with dodge, so that's cool. I've never been impressed with Joker, and Stockholm Syndrome is Stockholm Syndrome, so filling out the middle of the tree seems a little painful. Good tree for a splash in for Endurance.
  • Sharpshooter: Feels pretty weak, especially compared to the other weapon trees. Ammo Efficiency is nice but doubt I'd want to spend 28 points for it, though I don't use the Thanatos much. Marksman has potential with the Uzi and Krinkov.


  • Shotguner[sic]: Ace Overkill remains dumb, so that frees up 6 points, and unless you're using the Izhma/Steakout regular Overkill is eh so that's another 4, allowing another possibility for multitree shenanigans. Close By is the real stand out here, holy poo poo. I've seen some people poo poo on Far Away, but those of us who like to run all shotguns know the pain of snipers. It's 32 points to get everything but Overkill, which is kind of tempting since these are some tasty skills.
  • Armorer: Unless CTV changes dramatically, Aced Ironman is going to be one of the most important skills to pick up. Bulletproof feels like a no-brainer over Bullseye. I'd rather have Die Hard than Transporter, but seems like either is a good pick and a good choice for a splash. The confusingly named Oppressor is going to be the splash choice du jour for non Armored builds.
  • Ammunition Specialist: Oof. First of all, another confusingly named skill in Ammunition Specialist. Aced Fully Loaded is a mouthful of a skill, but pretty loving cool. Being able to saw through shields seems cool for me, perennial saw bitch that I am. Still, an incredibly unsexy tree. I expect to see a lot of demand unfulfilled, though I could be proven wrong by grenade enthusiasts.


  • Engineer: Sentries are a lot better but still sentries. Jack of All trades is much better and opens up some possibilities, and Engineering Aced deals with sentries most critical failing. I'm still skeptical.
  • Breacher: Making it so trip mines aren't used for C4 is a loving great move. I foresee a decent amount of splash to pick up Drill Sawgeant. Not sure if Fire Trap will be enough to make one-use trip mines seem like a good deployable to bring.
  • Oppressor: Jesus Christ. This tree is monstrous. The enormity of getting 50% of the Bulldozer's headshot bonus applied for body shots is...words fail. Fast Fire is a clear choice over Shock & Awe, and Shock & Awe isn't bad. Both of the Tier 2s are worth splashing for, and Steady Grip basic has got to be one of the best uses of 1 point for non-Sharpshooters out there. If I were to make a guess on what build is going to replace the ubiquitous Masterforcer, it's Medic + Armorer + Oppressor.


  • Covert Ops: The stealth tree. Not terribly interesting to me, though I can think of multiple times where near-wipes were averted by well-timed feedbacks. Of course, it looks like you can now feedback with no skills invested, so for a lot of applications that's enough. Cleaner being the source for all assets makes it a potential 5 point splash for Expert Driver.
  • Commando: Sneaky Bastard is probably the most important skill here. I'm sure most of us have worked out a <5 concealment loadout, so Low Blow Aced is a little overkill, freeing up 6 points. I'd probably re invest it back into the tree. Aced Duck & Cover, Aced Evasion, Basic Thick Skin, Basic Sneaky Bastard, Aced Shockproof, Basic Lowblow clocks in at 26 points.
  • Silent Killer: This whole goddamn tree is nuts. You know something's gone crazy when +30% damage is probably the least appealing skill. Optic Illusions [sic] is fantastic for Commando builds (remember, most silencers are only a 2 concealment penalty in the first place), but the Professional alone is good enough to justify things like silenced KSPs.


  • Gunslinger: I'm not excited about Trigger Happy, and given the current weapon damage breakpoints and status of pistols I don't see much reason to take Gun Play, but everything else here is great.
  • Relentless: Swan Song - still a thing. I like this whole tree. I like everything about it. I don't think it's good enough to count as a substitution for Armorer or Commando, but it's some pretty significant increases to survivability. Up You Go looks particularly important for Grinder builds.
  • Brawler: Probably the most mixed bag. Never was a fan of Berserker, and Frenzy seems to be built around Berserking. Bloodthirst looks like it has good synergy with Sociopath, so that might be a thing. Other than that, as much as I might enjoy melee, we're fundamentally playing a shooter.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Dr Cheeto posted:

I'm pretty confident frenzy will be worthwhile for regeneration decks even without picking up berserker.

Yeah, the infiltrator synergy that got pointed out kind of goes above my analysis. It's especially good as a 10 point splash. If it was higher in the tree then eh, since after Medic + Armorer/Commando I'd rather have Oppressor or Shotguner[sic] or Silent Killer.


John Murdoch posted:

Well and presumably Up You Go will help with that. I'd be more concerned with getting tagged by Tasers/Cloakers right as you get back up.

I'm personally quite enthusiastic about that skill, since it's wipe-preventing. I'll almost certainly try a gimmick that maxes out that tree.

watho posted:

make the piglet usable even more betterer.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Dialing back gun damage would make sense, given that they have a bunch of +damage skills that really don't seem like they'd help weapons hit new breakpoints.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Cue "who cares about balance in a coop game!"

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


This is my personal prediction for boiler-plate boring Masterforcer.

And a stupid Grinder dodge gimmick.

And this gimmick I call Grenadier. Saw so you can do the gimmick of both sawing and exploding everything on the map.

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Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


I'm enjoying theorycrafting new builds. Even when they're boring. Flamethrower+RPG Infiltrator spec I don't know if Berserker does/will apply to Flamethrower. If it doesn't, swap out Berserker for Fully Loaded.

To make up for that, enjoy this build built entirely around the Stryc.

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