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This thread has been an awesome resource for me previously. Hoping to get some advice on my current situation, though I'm not sure if there's really much I can do at this point. I work in a large organisation (in Australia, for relevance) which has set pay bands similar to Government. I'm currently a level 7. About a year ago my job began gradually changing due to restructures and general changes in the way we work, and responsibilities and decision-making authority added to the point where I'm now doing level 8 duties. Also relevant here is that I really enjoy my job and am not looking to leave (more on that later). At the start of this year, I investigated the process for having the job reclassified, which involves rewriting the position description in line with the level 8 descriptors, a justification of why it's warranted and how the job came to change, having all managers above you sign it off up to C-level (three, in my case), and then it goes to HR who does the actual review and makes the decision. So I did all the work - filled out all the forms, rewrote the PD accurately, and approached my manager asking for her support to get the role reclassified, and a timeline for when this would take place. She immediately supported me and said she thought it was justified - she'd just come back from mat leave and had seen how much my role had changed while she'd been gone. I followed up with her the other day to see how she had gone taking it to the next manager up the line. Turns out, her manager immediately said "no way" and wasn't open to it at all. She managed to talk her into taking another look at it once she'd read all the documentation I put together, but it doesn't sound hopeful. Once that manager gets on board, it then needs to go to the C-level director for signoff, which is going to be an even harder sell. The approach from my manager now is that I need to write out all my objectives for the year as part of our regular performance planning, and ensure they're written in line with a level 8 role, and "go from there". At least she's keen to get it through and supports me? The problem I have here is that if the reclassification gets knocked back by either of the two managers above her, I'm still doing the work of a level 8 and not being paid for it (which this place has prior form for). They view PDs as essentially meaningless artefacts. I don't want to just sit back and refuse to do the work either, because that's not going to be a good look for me. Any advice? I'm going to keep pushing, but I feel pretty powerless. Another complicating factor: I'm pregnant (very early) and want to keep it quiet for as long as possible, because I'm concerned that once the news is out they'll definitely stonewall me as they won't want to pay me more while I'm on mat leave. I'm definitely not going to quit and lose my benefits either, so that's not an option. Unless I reveal the news and make them worry that they'll be hit with a discrimination case?!
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Jan 30, 2020 07:19
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Yeah, I have poo poo all. They really need me, but realistically I can't quit or change jobs within the organisation due to the incoming baby. If management wants to keep everyone locked into low pay structures, they have free rein to do it. I might post in the corporate thread, thanks for the direction.
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Jan 30, 2020 09:27
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Thanks guys, appreciate the reality check. If anything at least this gives me thought about whether I go back after mat leave is over or look to move then.
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Jan 30, 2020 20:43
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Kilbas posted:Alright, I may be in pretty deep poo poo here and not even know it but I'm coming to you guys to see if I can't get some experience and guidance. I'm just going to absolutely infodump since I'm too frazzled to make a coherent narrative. Currently working at a job that doesn't pay great, but is ridiculously stable and consistent. Been going through a recruiter here for a position that's been up for a little over a month or so with a start-up, they've gone through multiple candidates but none of them were a fit for the corporate culture. They've gone further with me than with any other candidate despite having comparatively less experience, about 2.5 years vs their expected 3-5. Salary range on presentation from recruiter at the start was 90k-110k and the work itself would be difficult, a lot of setting up foundation. I've not shared my salary expectation, but the recruiter has told me that their initial offer was 80k salary with a 15k one year retention bonus and four year vesting equity they estimate between 80k-100k (which call me conservative but I'm just not interested in). I've been in a similar situation early in my career where I was drastically lowballed on the initial offer, and was similarly insulted. I negotiated up to a satisfactory package but looking back, I wish I'd recognised that this was a massive red flag and found something else. They were just awful to work for and offering lovely wages was something I should have heeded.
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Aug 3, 2021 18:46
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How do I negotiate a better redundancy payout? My job is being made redundant soon, and our payouts are clearly defined in our workplace agreement and are pretty generous (6 months pay plus 2 weeks per year of working there). However HR have calculated my payout at an 80% basis because I just came back from mat leave in July, temporarily working 4 days a week before increasing to full time in January. I tried to increase to full time a few weeks ago and it was approved by HR but then they revoked it. I think this is bullshit because I'm clearly easing back into full time work, I've worked full time for the last six years, and there's $15k difference between an 80% payout and 100%. HR have said they're calculating it based on the time fraction I'm working when I leave, but considering they are restricting how much I can work, it seems blatantly unfair. I don't know if I have a legal leg to stand on, but any tips for getting a fair amount of money would be great. Edit: in Australia if that's relevant Jumpsuit fucked around with this message at 10:42 on Sep 22, 2021 |
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Sep 22, 2021 10:21
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It's not related to mat leave or me personally (which would probably make it easier to argue), it's a business wide restructure. Over 200 roles are being removed. University, if that helps. My alternative is just accepting the payout offer, but I feel like I'm leaving money on the table by not fighting for a 100% payout. The policy is indirectly discriminatory to women.
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Sep 22, 2021 12:13
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wizzardstaff posted:(Bursting into a thread I've never interacted with before but have seen in ads, thanks.) Any tips for negotiation with local government jobs? I imagine those are probably a lot less flexible. I'm in the same position, had a great interview for a government role with a set salary range and I'm hoping for an offer soon. I've worked there before and it's only a 12 month contract, so I'm going to push for being at the top step of the salary band because I don't care if it doesn't move from that point. You can definitely ask.
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Oct 8, 2021 00:11
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Recruiter placed me in an interview last week that went really well. Now at salary negotiation point. Recruiter: This role is offering $100k Me: I need $125k Recruiter: I put you forward at $110k. They can't increase from a $110k base Me: Are there any CPI or band increases down the track? Recruiter: I'll check, in the meantime the manager has asked if you'd consider $100k Wtf. I went back and said yeah I'd consider $100k but only for a 4 day week. Wonder if they'll take the bait. I really like this organisation and the role, and the location is perfect, but lowballing leaves such a bad taste in my mouth.
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Mar 8, 2022 02:52
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TheParadigm posted:I was back reading the thread and taking some notes. I think there's some relevant advice i just breezed past, here: Thanks, I pulled this one and the recruiter said that the exec would try and push for $110k but it would take a while for leadership signoff, not guaranteed, plus oh here's another role at $100k that I should strongly consider. So I said I'm done here, if they can meet the market let me know but I'm not taking that salary. She immediately texted "let's chat tomorrow? 9am?" Like, so you can talk me into accepting less money? Nah
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Mar 10, 2022 02:35
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bamhand posted:I've never quit a company that has had a ping pong table. I did, unfortunately having a ping pong table didn't make up for the rampant sexual harassment
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May 26, 2022 05:29
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Mr.Sloth posted:Hey all. Looking for some advice for a friend. What country are you in? Australia specific: generally you will be offered at the bottom of the salary band, not for any personal reasons but just because that's the policy. You can absolutely negotiate up to the top band from there though - I've done it myself multiple times using the same reasoning as your wife, and so have many colleagues. Last time when they asked my salary expectations I just told them that I expected to come in at the top bracket due to my direct experience in both the sector and a similar role, and they ticked it off with no issues. Decisions are made by the hiring manager and will depend on their staffing budget. They might escalate it to the next level if they're having difficulty negotiating (eg they don't want to lose more of their staff budget than they have to) but generally they will have discretion.
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May 27, 2022 09:38
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Eric the Mauve posted:
Quoting for truth. I wish I had seen this advice three years ago when I started pushing for a raise. My manager was (I believed) genuinely supportive and sent me down the track of having my position re-evaluated with HR, but when the time came to have it signed off by the C-suite they didn't want a bar of it. My manager would have known that the whole time. I appreciated her support but would have rather heard that the more practical solution was finding another job.
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Jul 22, 2022 10:29
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Lockback posted:Everybody's job is stupid and evil except mine. Was gonna say "same" but I work in marketing so, uh
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Aug 13, 2022 07:49
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Long story here about not only knowing your worth in dollar terms, but in seniority level. I worked for one institution for 6 years with a junior title (campaign coordinator) and average pay for the sector, but I was leading squads and successful multimillion-dollar campaigns. I went for promotions unsuccessfully, asked for a title change unsuccessfuly, and tried to have my role reclassified to a higher grade, also unsuccessfully, which meant I kept absorbing the message that I was not a senior operator. After I left at the end of last year, I was applying for jobs at a slightly higher level - I was on $99k at the previous job and would have been happy around $110k. The first job I was offered was through a recruiter and I had the guts to turn it down after reading this thread because they would not budge from $100k. But from this experience, again I had the impression reinforced that I probably wasn't worth that much more money and wasn't senior yet, but I wanted to keep trying. I was then the runner-up for a job in the same sector as job 1, where I didn't get it because I was in their words "too senior". I was really confused by this because hang on, I've been told for my entire career I'm a junior burger. I then got another job in the same sector, negotiated myself to the top of the pay band ($115k), and was told by my manager "when we saw your resume, we thought we would never have a chance at getting you - your experience is incredible". That job turned out to be a bad fit - totally different to how it was pitched - but then the last place I applied for reached out to me with a senior marketing manager role they thought I would be a good fit for. I had seen it advertised but thought no way, I'm not at that level. But I went for it, interviewed, got told again how impressive my resume is, got the job, negotiated salary and am starting on $131k in a couple of weeks. That's a 30% pay bump within a year of leaving job 1. (And the crappy current job has counteroffered me a senior role to keep me around - I'm not going to take it). The funny thing is, this exact situation has happened to all of my colleagues who have left institution 1 - we were all kept at a low title and pay level, but were obviously performing really well while we were told we were juniors. And when we came out, we were all sought after in the same sector because of our performance reputations. So yeah. Know what level you should be at, and LIST ACHIEVEMENTS IN YOUR RESUME.
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Aug 24, 2022 05:05
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Eric the Mauve posted:The Negotiation Thread: Manipulating people is awesome, if you're good at it
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Sep 18, 2022 11:12
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FMguru posted:The Negotiation Thread: Now that's some fuckin' BATNA
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May 9, 2023 00:25
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Eric the Mauve posted:The Negotiation Thread: range or gtfo
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Jul 21, 2023 06:01
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Parallelwoody posted:Yeah I got fed some line about how "You're not ready yet, but soon" to even apply for an internal position I was more qualified for than anyone in the building, and I was putting in my notice like two months later. Preach. I've posted about this before, but I spent six years in one place being told I wasn't ready to move up. Subsequently went job hunting for higher level roles, missed out on one because they thought I was too senior, and they instead offered me a senior management role. 30% pay bump. Don't let them keep you underpaid.
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Aug 31, 2023 12:12
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Chewbecca posted:Delay things. I want one confirmed before I make a decision on the other one. Both are public sector and NFP, so salary isn't negotiable anyway As another Aussie with experience in public sector and NFPs - you should absolutely be negotiating pay. While you won't get the pay elevated beyond the top of the band, you should still push to be starting at the highest step rather than coming in at the bottom of the band.
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Dec 1, 2023 09:36
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It'll depend on who the provider is, probably best to check their site directly. Some give you a card to use, others don't. Your employer should be giving you all this info. I will say, be careful if you have a HECS debt. My first job where I earned enough to be paying back HECS was at an NFP with salary packaging, and I ended up with a massive HECS bill at tax time. It was because the pre-tax deductions reduced my fortnightly income below the repayment threshold, so work didn't take any HECS repayments out. Then once EOFY hits, the ATO realises you still owe the money. Bee might know more!
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Dec 5, 2023 10:01
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I've been recruiting internally for an 18-month parental leave contract in my team and offered the role to an outstanding junior candidate who was on a 4-month contract elsewhere in the organisation. At the same time she was also offered a similar length contract role in another team alongside mine, so used that leverage with me to get to the top of the salary band. Then she went to her manager with offer in hand to resign, and her manager counter-offered her permanency and the same top-of-band salary to stay in that role. Permanency won out, so she's staying put. Proud of her for getting what she needed but drat I am devastated at a) losing her and b) having to go through recruitment hell again.
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Apr 18, 2024 02:18
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Eric the Mauve posted:Well played by her. But I'd keep my resume state of the art if I were her. She has them over a barrel now, and smartly turned her leverage into money, but they may get right to work mitigating that and then looking for someone cheaper for the long term. Unless this is outside the US and in a jurisdiction where "permanency" is contractual and not just a pinky promise.  and in a university which undergoes restructures on the professional side every few years, so having permanency is a massive plus in this environment because a) fixed-term contractors are the first to go in any restructure and b) only permanent staff are entitled to redundancy payouts.
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Apr 19, 2024 05:23
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