|
ADolan posted:I just received a job offer for a company where I would be making $57k/year and receive a $2500 bonus payable after 90 days employment. This would be a huge leap from my previous job where I was only making $48k/year in a much more expensive city. Well before reading this thread, when I applied for the new job I mistakenly mentioned how much I made at my previous gig and asked for $55k/year for desired salary. My question is whether it's still worth negotiating for more money since they knew how much I made at my old position, and I asked for less than what they offered. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Anecdotally, I got offered more than I asked for initially for my current job and then asked for more after getting more details on the benefits since they were substantially worse than my former employer's.
|
#
¿
Oct 18, 2016 03:28
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 9, 2024 17:59 |
|
|
Spoderman posted:I just interviewed recently and got an offer. During the interview, I mentioned a target (I know... I didn't start reading up on this stuff until after the interview...) and the offer I got is higher than my target. They know I'm between jobs right now, although I got another offer at the same time from another firm for slightly less. Even though I don't have much leverage, can I still ask for more? The job looks great, I just don't want to leave any money on the table. I completely agree with Dwight Eisenhower posted:You can. It's tactically riskier than I'd like. You don't have a job right now, and your other offer is worse by the sounds of it. They offered you more than you asked for, which will mean their first question is "We were generous and offered you more than your target. Why should we bump up even more past that?" Seeing as your other offer is worse, any answer you offer comes down to "I want more money." CarForumPoster posted:Yea this. I know there are many youtubes and some in this thread that say always negotiate but I am firmly in the camp of having an "absolute minimum" and a "just say yes price" in mind by the end of the interview just in case (which requires a lot of research before the interview). I firm these numbers up with more data and comparing responsibilities and benefits after the interview if they didnt make an offer right then. but if you have an actual reason for the ask, it doesn't always have to play as just greedy.  ANECDOTAL EVIDENCEFor my current role, I gave my just say yes number when repeatedly asked for a number by the internal recruiter before moving forward with an offer (I know...) and they came in a few thousand above it. I asked for the benefit package information as well and it was pretty terrible compared to every other company I'd been with. Because the benefits weren't great, I countered with a higher base than their offer stating that "the target I gave assumed similar benefits as my current company" and their benefits were significantly worse as my justification. It delayed the final offer a bit because apparently it had to be approved since I think I came in near the top of their range for my level, but in the end they agreed.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 22, 2016 17:45
|
|
|
drive me nuts to school posted:I work for a large grocer and they match 50% up to 3% contributions, aka 1.5%. I get 50% match up to first 6% (so 3%) with a 1 year vesting. Though the company also just automatically contributes 4% to your 401k regardless. So, 7% after everything. But the 4% replaced a pension, so...
|
|
#
¿
Feb 11, 2017 19:56
|
|
|
Gin_Rummy posted:You know what, you're right. I think those other companies do have accrual during the first year, so I might not even need to worry. Anecdotal EvidenceJust make sure to bring it up before you start/accepting the offer and, like the poster above said, don't phrase it as a question. Let them know it's already planned/paid for. Even in places with accrual, they can generally waive whatever for you if they want you in the door (or just not put it in the system as "vacation" or something like that). At my current place, I started November 30, 2015 and was then on vacation from Dec. 8th or so until Jan. 2nd. All paid. Similar situation at the employer before that.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 27, 2017 19:27
|
|
|
shame on an IGA posted:The local chevy dealership here just had 100% turnover after being sold, new owners told everyone who had been there for decades "Well you're all new hires to us so no vacation for 12 months" and was met with "Suck our dicks from the back" This is amazing. Did everyone leave within a month of each other or was it a slow trickle out?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 27, 2017 21:00
|
|
|
interrodactyl posted:Say that you consider compensation to be a whole benefits package, of which salary is one part. If they need a number to move forward, put the max allocated for the position. Tell them you're more concerned about it being a good mutual fit, and if you and the company both agree on that during the process, you're sure the numbers can be worked out. I like this quite a bit, specifically putting the max allocated if they just have to have a number.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 14, 2017 17:03
|
|
|
Need some advice on leveraging an upcoming job offer with my current employer. tl;dr I'm being poached by a former colleague from a job I really like in a city I really like for another role I'm pretty sure I would like a lot as well in a much more expensive city. Unsure if the offer will be good enough to get me to move out to the more expensive city and want to know how to leverage it at my current employer. So, I'm coming up on an odd situation and need some advice. I currently work for a management consulting company and I am an Associate (3rd level up from the bottom of the ladder). I like my job, I'm good at it, and I feel like I'm continually learning and developing with most new projects. Unfortunately, I have a manager who's not really invested in developing his direct reports and won't "go to bat" for me when it comes to it. Last year around performance review time, every senior consultant (two or three levels higher than myself) I worked with agreed that I should be promoted to Senior Associate because I greatly outperformed the expectations of a new hire at my level and have acted largely independently (at a senior associate level according to other senior consultants) to good results. Because I'd only been there a year, my manager wasn't optimistic about the promotion because "[company] doesn't promote to that level after only one year generally." I didn't get promoted. Fast forward to this year, we acquired a company and had some restructuring. I (and a portion of the team I was on) were moved into the new group that was formed due to the acquisition. I pushed to be promoted to Senior Associate again at midyear review because the reorg necessitated that I would be working even more independently and running my own projects and being at an Associate level would make that harder because people would see "Associate" next to my name and assume I'm not the one running the show on my work stream. Manager said he would try but still wasn't optimistic because midyear promotions aren't common. There were midyear promotions (within our group and adjacent groups even) and I still wasn't promoted and, like I feared, I've run into a few instances where I've had to fight and prove to senior consultants outside of our area that I know what I'm doing when it comes to my work, which just slows everything down and makes things inefficient when they won't let me do my job. Now, I'm being recruited by a former colleague of mine who left my current company to manage an analytics practice for a tech company. I'm very optimistic that I'll receive an offer as she is the hiring manager, knows what I'm capable of, and we've already discussed the role at length. I've gone through most of the interview process and the last step is flying out to meet her boss. The main issue is that the position is in SF and I live in a city with a much lower cost of living. While I think the role would be a good one for me, I don't think they'll be able to offer me the money I'd *want* to live in SF at the same level I'm currently living in my current city. For reference, I currently make $90k base + 8% - 15% bonus depending on how the company did, how I did, etc. It looks like the SF role maxes out at about $120k (maaaaaybe $130k but I think the hiring manager would have to seriously fight to get there) and I would only feel comfortable making the move out to SF if I'm offered $130k or more. So, how do I leverage the upcoming offer with my current company outside of our normal performance review/promotion schedule without laying an ultimatum down between promotion or me taking another job I may or may not want to take depending on the offer? I don't really want to leave my current city or this job yet but I am getting frustrated at being at this lower level (with the lower pay) when everyone agrees I should be at a higher level and feeling a bit underpaid for the amount of work I'm doing. The common advice seems to be that having the offer just lets you negotiate with your employer from a place of confidence rather than showing the offer and asking them to match but I'm not sure I could because I don't think the offer will be good enough that I'll want to take it AND the timing is off. Our next performance review isn't until the end of the year and this offer will most likely come in October, so I can't wait it out until it makes the most sense to bring it up during the review. For reference, if the new role is able to get to $130k or more (assuming the rest of the package is acceptable), I would probably make the move and the desire to stay at my current company would be about equal with the desire to be in the new role. Chaotic Flame fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Oct 1, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Oct 1, 2017 18:59
|
|
|
Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Figure out the cost of living increase and what percentage of your income goes to stuff that would become more expensive if you move. I realize this may be hard to tell for some things - groceries probably aren't going to change in price by the same proportion as rent but they will change. Your rent may double or whatever, but that's okay if your rent isn't a huge portion of your income. Your, say, 401k contribution "cost" isn't going to increase. Maybe you won't need a car in SF and that will save you money? (I had a similar situation where my rent would go up 2.5x and I sold my car and moved anyway and it turned out to be a fantastic decision.) Another perk of high COL/high income is that, if you want to leave, you can still take that high income with you when you negotiate for future positions regardless of where they are. I'm actually in Chicago, so equivalent major cities, with no car and better transit than SF (imo). I've done some calculations and rent is the biggest change for sure since I don't want roommates since I haven't had them for 5+ years. That's where I got the $130k figure. At that point, I'm pretty sure, financially, I'll be in a similar place as in Chicago. The other thing is I came to Chicago from NYC with the salary I have now because of COL and I'm a little reticent to jump back into an extremely expensive city again even with a 35% increase in base. I'm more worried about if the offer isn't quite good enough, how can I use it to better my situation with my current employer. Chaotic Flame fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Oct 1, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Oct 1, 2017 20:30
|
|
|
spf3million posted:I moved to the East Bay from Chicago 2 years ago and you're right. Rent is higher, especially in SF, but I didn't see a significant increase in prices of much else. Unfortunately, I can't go to his boss because his current boss isn't his actual boss anymore thanks to the reorg and we don't have a real rapport anyway. And your story sounds depressingly familiar.  EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:90% of people who leave a position do so because of the relationship with the person to whom they're a direct report. If you don't feel supported and encouraged day in and day out by your boss, directly, one of two things are true: 1) you're a bad employee or 2) he or she is a bad manager. If it's one, then hey no problem keep doing what you're doing and cash those checks, homie. If it's two, you're going to have to pull one of an increasingly disruptive series of levers to get what should be your due. LochNessMonster posted:I realize this is the negotiation thread but I'm with EAT FASTER!!!!! on this one. If your boss has no motivation to arrange anything he's not interested in you and probably can't be bothered to do so in the future. It's definitely #2. He's a bad manager. He's a great consultant who I don't think wanted or needed people management responsibilities but they were thrust on him before I came to the company and here we are. I'm always the one who initiates performance discussions, goal setting, etc. If I didn't, we'd never discuss anything related to my career. I guess I'll see where this offer comes in and just make a determination from there to jump ship or stay. I don't know if I can even leverage it with a manager like mine and that was my main fear/concern. At least it'll be a good starting point on knowing my worth as I get back on the job market.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 3, 2017 23:32
|
|
|
Dwight Eisenhower posted:From my own experience the best way to frame it is: Bringing this back up because it's relevant for me again. I went out to do my discovery and I received two job offers, both of which I ended up turning down for different reasons. Both were a decent jump from my current salary/benefits and were internal positions (I'm in consulting) but would have required me to move after I just moved (less than three months at the time of the offers) to a city I've been wanting to live in for a while or just wasn't the best fit. Is this discussion path still worth pursuing if I don't have the offers currently, since I already turned them down, when discussing compensation with my current company? I know what I'm worth on the market, even if I didn't want to take those specific positions but I'm not sure if I should bring up the fact that I've gone exploring if I'm not prepared to jump ship with an extended offer sitting in hand.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 7, 2017 18:37
|
|
|
Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Yeah you can just say "I have an offer for <amount>" even if you decided not to take it. The downside is, if they say "okay well go take that then", you won't be able to. Hopefully this doesn't affect your confidence in how you say what you have to - you have to believe you have that offer(and...it'd probably be pretty easy for you to go get another internal offer if you've already done it twice, so you kinda do.) Just had a talk with my manager and the promotion I mentioned earlier in the thread is looking much more likely as he's recommended me for the jump and his boss (partner - head of our group) supports the promotion. So, I think I'll try to line up another offer or two around the time I find out if I'm promoted (should know by January) and the pay increase that comes along with that. If it's not where I want to be, we'll revisit this conversation so I can actually leave if they don't want to play ball. Chaotic Flame fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Dec 8, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Dec 7, 2017 23:57
|
|
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:why are you saying gently caress California for a rule change that would have benefited you Glad it wasn't just me. I thought I was misreading it somehow.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 8, 2018 18:26
|
|
|
Goodpancakes posted:I made it to 4th interview as one of two candidates for a position I wasn't huge on. I've done the job before and it's okay but I'm not thrilled about it. So I know I'm gonna ask for a lot of money. I manage to get the salary range out of the HR guy and they are paying 58-72. Great! I've done this job before, know my poo poo, I ask for 70 in the job interview. Jesus. I'm not sure if it's better to tell him so he can try to fix it later or just let him think he's doing fine.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 9, 2018 23:12
|
|
|
Eric the Mauve posted:Too late to fix it now, only thing he can do is immediately start looking for a job somewhere else. Not like his new employer is going to give him a 50% pay increase if he comes back immediately and says "actually after accepting your offer I checked and it turns out I way underbid, 50% pay increase plz" I meant in the coming year or so. He can try to spin increases at review time somehow? Maybe? Who am I kidding? He's done. I'm surprised they didn't even offer him the bottom of the range.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 10, 2018 01:58
|
|
|
Goodpancakes posted:He called me asking for a reference and that's when I found out he was the other candidate. I asked him what he asked for and he told me 22 an hour. I was totally stunned. I told him then on the phone what they told me. 58-72. At that point he didn't know what they were going to offer him. His negotiation for pay would begin the next day when they officially sent a written offer. Why he didn't ask for more money then I do not know. Maybe he couldn't believe how loving terribly underpaid his previous position was. He trained me at my last position, has a few years more experience, and a certification and I negotiated to be paid more then him when we worked together. Because I was making more then 22 an hour then. I feel this entire story needs to go in the OP as a warning.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 10, 2018 02:32
|
|
|
Kudaros posted:They just called and offered me the max anyway. Start in two weeks. What an insane jump. Congrats! I always get a good tingle when goons do well with job offers.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 7, 2018 01:08
|
|
|
I think they were just trying to be helpful because someone getting their first relocation package may ask for $7K and not realize that the company is going to take that as gross, not net.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 9, 2018 21:13
|
|
|
Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I don't think PTO should be a thing that increases over time at all. A boon to a unicorn decade-long employee isn't the worst thing in the world but I think it should be the same for everyone. Completely agree. I've never understood why companies stick to the archaic more-PTO-the-longer-you-stay thing when people aren't sticking around anymore. It's never a selling point. Or accruals throughout the year. I don't get that either. People aren't allowed to travel at the beginning of the year? Our company bases it on title. Associates get X days, Senior Associates get Y, etc. All available day 1. It's better than the tenure system but still not perfect.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 6, 2018 16:29
|
|
|
bamhand posted:What's wrong with accruing hours as you work? Like you get 3 hours off per 40 hours you've worked. That seems like it would be the most fair system and is completely independent of the calendar year. Since people jump around a lot now, you can never really take a vacation depending on your timing. Also, this assumes carryover which I don't think a lot of companies do. So, you just have no one taking vacation early in the year and everyone trying to leave near the end.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 6, 2018 16:46
|
|
|
Eric the Mauve posted:You’re not going to get them a dime higher than $60K (now they know your current/last salary was significantly less than that) so probably the best plays are: Can you negotiate that? I've never heard of variable matching rates per employee before.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 25, 2018 14:27
|
|
|
bamhand posted:I just got more base salary when I negotiated because the match at my company now is bad. I did the same thing but because of their health benefits. My previous employer had really good, cheap options. Eric the Mauve posted:Of course you can! Everything is always negotiable. Ok, yeah that makes sense. I've never had a delayed match and forgot that was a thing.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 25, 2018 16:30
|
|
|
All it takes is one year of the company "not meeting its goals" (company could still be profitable for the year) and all of a sudden your bonus shrinks or disappears.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2018 15:48
|
|
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Consulting bonuses are not guaranteed but they are not anything like normal corporate bonuses. Except it is. I'm in consulting and a large portion of people got smaller bonuses this year because the company overall didn't meet goals (but was still profitable and grew). Our group got our full bonuses because we had a stellar year but not everyone else did. They didn't disappear overnight or anything but it's never guaranteed. Chaotic Flame fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Jun 14, 2018 |
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2018 23:57
|
|
|
Busy Bee posted:I really appreciate everyone's comments and advice. I already started networking and looking at other opportunities a few days after they laid off my boss. Embrace the coast while you job hunt
|
|
#
¿
Apr 6, 2019 16:10
|
|
|
Even if they do offer you more money, do you want to work there? You know raises will be crappy since they criminally underpay already and no benefits.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 23, 2019 17:21
|
|
|
I'm not sure if it's the jobs I'm applying to or maybe the companies but I've been having no issues deflecting comp stuff from recruiters this time around. I'm definitely midcareer now vs when I was last on a serious job hunt but it still seems odd.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 11, 2019 22:15
|
|
|
As I prep for this in-person job interview later this morning, I'm realizing that I'm a bit more senior than this role requires. I guess it's still interview experience and, if we get to the offer stage, I'll just use this as a chance to negotiate for better title/responsibilities/pay but I really should've paid more attention on this one. I've been apply to/getting contacted by a lot of companies that define level later in the process and job title descriptions don't reflect what level you may actually come into the organization (e.g., an advertised "Analyst" position could be a senior person or an entry-level person depending on their credentials, experience, etc.). I don't think that's the case here but we'll find out I guess!
|
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2019 14:39
|
|
|
Rex-Goliath posted:I guess I'll repost this here because I'm proud of myself for finally doing this right Nice new thread title. Also good job. Feels good, right? I've only had to do the same once because the recruiter would not stop asking. It didn't go much further after that, which I consider a bullet dodged.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2019 18:58
|
|
|
So, I've been moving through a hiring process with a tech company in the Bay (I'm in Chicago) and I put the initial salary discussion on hold in typical fashion (need to know full scope of role, benefits package, etc.). Now that they want to fly me out for a final in-person interview with the team, the recruiter wants to have a quick chat around comp again to feel me out. I've never done a separate follow up call just on comp before an offer so not sure how to play this exactly. Their benefits are actually publicly available and the recruiter gave me the link after our initial call so I have that info but still don't want to throw out a number first since Bay area and I don't want to lowball myself. Any suggestions for this scenario?
|
|
#
¿
Jun 27, 2019 15:52
|
|
|
asur posted:You can ask for the salary range of the position and they are required to give it in California. They don't need to include equity which is a pretty signficant part of your total compensation though. Not a Children gave the following in YOSPOS, "I'd like to evaluate the offer as a whole, including salary, benefits, and leave time. Please send me all available information and we can discuss after I've had a chance to review all aspects of compensation." or "I don't have a number in mind, but will consider any reasonable offer. I'm sure we can come to a mutually satisfying agreement.". I'd highly advocate continued deflection, but if you don't think you'll be able to do that then researching total compensation on levels.fyi and paysa and having a number in mind prior to the conversation is better than randomly throwing something out. Not a Children posted:To add to the post above mine: you're in a pretty good position here to deflect, the recruiter can't do poo poo because you have a reasonable excuse for putting off money talk. Thank you both! This is helpful.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 28, 2019 08:17
|
|
|
So I think I'm in a position where I think I have to know when I've won and just accept without negotiating. This is for a literal dream job. Current comp - Chicago Current base salary 15% bonus target Extremely good time off I can actually use ( > 6 weeks) 7% 401k contribution Standard health options Offer comp - NYC 1.6x current base salary 15% bonus target (theoretically higher depending on performance) 95k equity (4 year vest) 10k relocation bonus (+ one month corporate housing to look for apt once I've moved) 4 weeks PTO but unlimited sick time ~3.5% 401k contribution All medical/dental/vision paid for by company Tons of other ancillary benefits that I'll actually use I'm not even sure what I could negotiate here. This is the job I wanted in a city I really enjoy with much higher comp and WAY better benefits. Also the recruiter made very sure to emphasize that base isn't really negotiable because it's based on level and they're extremely focused on parity/pay equity. Is there anything I'm not thinking about?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 23, 2019 01:21
|
|
|
Dik Hz posted:Recruiters say that poo poo all the time to try to close deals. Don't trust them. Worst case scenario is "No". Best case scenario is that they pull the offer, telling you exactly what kind of assholes they are. Caveat: If the offer is well above market rate, you'll look out-of-touch counter-offering. How does this offer compare to the market rate in NYC? It is an internal recruiter to be fair and I do know they actually do a lot of pay equity work (this is part of my field) but I agree. But, the offer is probably a good notch above market rate for the area based on what I know. Also, I do have another offer on the table, and they were aware of that. e: changed how much above market it is and more details Chaotic Flame fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Jul 23, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Jul 23, 2019 01:35
|
|
|
Thanks all for the wake up call. Definitely going to negotiate and frame how a few people put it (I'm ready to sign if we can get to X...), with justification around loss of 401k contributions if asked.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 23, 2019 15:32
|
|
|
Yeah, I used to live in NYC and when I moved to Chicago I essentially got a pretty big raise from the tax changes alone. Not looking forward to ~ city tax ~ again.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 23, 2019 22:07
|
|
|
Asked for an 8% bump in total comp and we have a call set for later today to discuss. Thanks for all the input goons! Hopefully I'll have something to enter into the spreadsheet soon. Is that still a thing? UPDATE: no movement on the offer. It was literally their best offer for the role/level I'd be coming in, which I had a feeling was the case for a few reasons: 1) They came in above their own stated ranges (HQ is in California so they have to provide ranges if asked) for both base salary and equity 2) I had another offer on the table (which they knew) 3) I killed the interviews during the onsite 4) They're hiring really hard on this team for NYC and want people there ASAP Regardless, I've officially accepted and now we're working through paperwork. So, nothing to add to the spreadsheet but good practice in negotiating for an offer that's already really good. Chaotic Flame fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jul 25, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Jul 24, 2019 16:36
|
|
|
I just worked with the best (internal) recruiter of my life and it really makes a difference. This hiring process was a dream (if a bit long).
|
|
#
¿
Jul 30, 2019 00:22
|
|
|
Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:It probably says something to me that this doesn't register as skeezy, but it's almost quaint next to the worst things I've known third party recruiters to do. Yeah, I had a @fb.com reach out to me last year out of the blue. I wasn't looking at the time but it was a bit weird because it was a direct email and I hadn't applied for anything previously
|
|
#
¿
Jul 30, 2019 15:15
|
|
|
People are crushing it in here recently and it makes me so happy!
|
|
#
¿
Aug 8, 2019 23:38
|
|
|
Fhqwhgads posted:This thread taught me how to clearly state increases in responsibility and my new boss was able to explain that to HR who took a look at my salary and basically said "No that's not right" so now I'm practically doubling my salary on an internal transfer and I probably wouldn't have gotten anything if I didn't know to raise the issue properly. Congrats! Most times you have to leave to get this to happen (I just did).
|
|
#
¿
Aug 9, 2019 17:22
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 9, 2024 17:59 |
|
|
Rex-Goliath posted:That’s my read on it too, yeah. It's a hard lesson to learn but almost no company is "better than that"
|
|
#
¿
Aug 28, 2019 06:16
|
|