Tree of Savior: More Hats Than Players - RANK 8 IS OUT!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > The MMO HMO > Tree of Savior: More Hats Than Players - RANK 8 IS OUT!

Khorne: May 1, 2002

If you turn off FXAA you get good fps provided you have an okay system. I have an i7 3770k with a gtx 670 and my fps hasn't dipped below 40-50. It seems almost random what the fps is at, though. I'll get 80 in crowded towns with ridiculous chat bubbles and spam everywhere, and then standing in the middle of nowhere with nothing but my character and a tiny bit of terrain being rendered it will be a steady 50. Or there will be a ton of monsters/players/spells on screen and I'll have 100+ fps no problem. On the positive, there's no difference between 40 and 140 fps in this game due to how it controls and plays.

I'm pretty convinced it doesn't hit the hard drive because I was too lazy to clear out 16gb on my too small ssd for it and I have no stuttering running it from a 5400 rpm drive I never run games from. The load times also seem alright, I can't take a drink from a water bottle during the load time that's how short it is. Checking a few vods, once in-game the map load times seem almost identical to ssds which is kinda funny.

Does the game run fine on modern laptops with integrated gpus? I've been assuming no even though lots of modern titles do.

I don't even know why a mouse control scheme exists in this game. At least with how it's currently implemented. I'm sure most people think the keyboard scheme is kind of awkward, swap to mouse expecting ro/arpg, notice all the hotkeys change to bafflingly stupid things for no apparent reason because it's not like the keyboard hotkeys would interfere with mouse movement, then try to move and play with the mouse and go "holy poo poo this is unbelievably awful even ignoring the hotkey thing", switch back to keyboard, and then never look back.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Apr 19, 2016

# ¿ Apr 19, 2016 07:51

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# ¿ May 18, 2024 05:07

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Elentor posted:

Your CPU vastly outperforms your GPU by a gigantic margin. I know the first Kepler-based GPUs suffered a 3-10 FPS drop with FXAA but that went mostly away afterwards, so while there's a small impact in the 670, to any Maxwell GPU FXAA shouldn't do anything to the FPS. I imagine a lot of people have FXAA disabled anyway, I sure as hell do. It's very easy to cap the GPU bottleneck, the fact you somehow have 140 fps at some places show that.

My fps more than doubled by turning fxaa off in ToS. It's weird as hell because the fps gain in other titles is nowhere near that and closer to what you said.

quote:

The performance problems everyone is complaining stems from how the game utilizes the memory/cpu very poorly with frequent hangs. Sometimes the game freezes for 2-5 seconds, I've seen people complaining about it freezing randomly for up to 10 seconds even when the spammers were going ham. There are severe slowdowns to 5-15 FPS at some places depending on your rig.

I've never had this at all. Not even once. Is there anything in common with those people's systems?

The client does completely lack optimization and has to be doing some really stupid things to have such poor performance.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 09:38 on Apr 19, 2016

# ¿ Apr 19, 2016 09:08

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Elentor posted:

They're mostly gone after the hardcore ban waves and limitation of using megaphones after level 40, but that's just a band-aid over the underlying issues of the game.

If you can see any megaphone messages at all you're doing it wrong. The first thing I did at level 1 was ensure I never saw another one of those things again.

Step 1, turn off the ticker.
Step 2, click on any chat type that doesn't show global messages.

It had nothing to do with fps and everything to do with megaphones being a really dumb idea in any community larger than a few hundred people.

At least ToS doesn't use a naive clientside filter for spam that has somewhere between 10,000 and 100,000 entries of repetitive garbage that causes the client to grind to a halt if anyone spams. Ragnarok Online did.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Apr 19, 2016

# ¿ Apr 19, 2016 09:53

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Do they really still get drawn? That's pretty ridiculous.

Elentor seems to be describing a different issue entirely, especially if it still happens to some people but not most when the person is blocked. For it to happen when they are blocked, assuming bubbles are not drawn in that case, it has to do with how they are parsing incoming packets and would primarily effect people with some combination of poor bandwidth, poor latency, or packet loss to the server. And a quick survey of people complaining shows lots of broken english and lots of SEA players.

Although I had lots of trouble imagining how you'd write the netcode and rendering in such a way that the game functions fine when you disconnect and doesn't even realize you've disconnected from the server but also locks up on chat spam. I came up with a few ways, but maybe it just renders chat bubbles even for blocked people then doesn't show them. That's probably the simplest answer.

The HotS comparison is unfair because its issues come from the monumentally stupid decision to use an RTS engine/netcode for a MOBA. Which has nothing to do with how ToS works.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Apr 19, 2016

# ¿ Apr 19, 2016 10:55

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Should I use my vubbe fighter blood to make some gloves or should I sell it?

And what price do people actually pay for it? Because all the ones on the auction house are the same price as arde dagger.

# ¿ Apr 25, 2016 08:06

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Darius099 posted:

Okay so I was totally obsessed with Ragnarok Online for awhile when I was younger and thought this game looked really awesome.

Is there anything I should know before I go in blind playing for the first time?

Some of the shittiest, confusing quests (mines) are in the low level zones (mines) and the hardest to explore maps are generally the starter maps so don't assume the game will continue to be that confusing. They really need to work on their new player experience.

Stat and job choices are permanent. The good news is the min-maxing of stats is pretty much irrelevant for pve. The other good news is most intuitive stat placement works out just fine. As far as class choices go, if you want to look it up in advance go ahead. If not look up the skills at least so you pick things that have synergy. Or just do what you want, honestly the pve tuning and game seems so ridiculously lenient that everything is good and viable as long as there is some thought behind it.

Only other real advice would be everyone is either a dps or a support. There is no need for a "tank" because swordsman classes are inherently tanky. Going Peltasta 1 is all you need to be a "tank". You need something like 50? con tops for current endgame pve stuff, if that.

Oh, and clerics are not only good healers/group characters but also really easy to play and efficient killing machines solo.

Everything is fun and good in tree of savior.

edit: To be clear, there are peltasta3 tank builds and they are good, but they are highly specialized and require a group.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Apr 26, 2016

# ¿ Apr 26, 2016 19:02

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Silento posted:

And that's why you should get Vubbe Fighter Gloves. Even low level characters can use them!

Any silver making tips?

At this point I'd settle for "grind for 8 hours" to get enough to get an arde dagger. I've been debating soloing the 50 dungeon because supposedly you get around 100k per run (no idea if it's true) and it should be easy for me to do.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2016 20:29

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Bashez posted:

Level as fast as possible because higher level stuff gives you massively more money.

I basically solo'd/duo'd my way to 130 and then decided to do dungeons after that and basically went broke after having pretty impressive cash flow. If you're not a shithead and actually buy potions for instanced dungeons they're very bad money. The best money areas are the non instanced dungeons because they drop a lot of sellable items, but the enemies tend to be harder.

There's no need to buy pots for dungeons because the game drowns you in sp pots.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2016 10:47

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Red Red Blue posted:

I saw a ton of gold spam last night after the maintenance ended and I was rubberbanding like crazy today so maybe it's just you?

Some of the lag is not exactly their fault. They host with amazon in virginia and they have been getting ddosd like crazy or there's a routing issue or something, because pinging their servers has resulted in a ping anywhere from 28ms to 2000ms+ for me since saturday or so. Not "their" like ToS explicitly but their like amazon. Prior to maint it would take over 5s to use exp cards and because there is no queuing at all it literally meant I pretty much couldn't use exp cards because I had 500+ to use. After maint it has been much better, and earlier today I had a stable ping to the servers of about 28.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 10:25 on May 5, 2016

# ¿ May 5, 2016 10:21

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Blazing Zero posted:

highly, highly recommend this map. if you follow it and eat cards to stay about 5 levels lower than the map level you cant go wrong. also do dungeons and the merc missions once you hit fedimian at lvl 100

Someone made this spreadsheet in this thread. It's that map but in an actual human readable format.

# ¿ May 9, 2016 00:15

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Scoss posted:

Is this game as much of a tire fire as the steam reviews and official forums / subreddit would lead me to believe, or is this a histrionic community of hyperfans just crying and making GBS threads themselves over launch hiccups?

It depends what you want it to be.

Serious and complete game? Tire fire.
Fun with potential for great future updates? Fun.

Ragnarok was a worse tire fire prior to comodo, arguably prior to turtle island/war of emperium. They've laid the groundwork for some potentially good stuff, but some of the groundwork is also flawed. So play it until it's not fun and don't expect instant updates fixing everything.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 23:55 on May 9, 2016

# ¿ May 9, 2016 23:47

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Scoss posted:

I know there's a lot of trap choices in the game, so someone give me a suggestion for solid no-nonsense character builds for each archetype as starter characters. Ideally something that solos effectively. I'd like to start with and archer or wizard type character since I've played them the least.

For pve the current fad classes are:

wizard: wizard3/elementalist3/warlock is very popular right now. There are other builds they just aren't so popular, probably because archer/cleric are seen as stronger dps this patch.
cleric: support cleric2/priest3/?/plague doctor the ? is chaplain generally, and it's common to go cleric1/priest3/chaplain/cleric2/plague doc I think
dps cleric2/diev3/druid/either druid2 or plague doctor - one of the highest dps characters in the end game, dominates world bosses, can support in dungeons into the 200s, dps is immobile though because its owl statues require pulls around them
archer: archer3/quarrel shooter3/cannoneer is the fad right now I think, but there are fletcher and archer2/qs3/scout or falconer/musketeer builds as well
swordsman: this class is pretty bad right now relative to the other 3 in pve. If you grab pelt1 can tank and at least off tank in earth tower and some people run full con pelt3s who literally just tank. But pelt3 is awful to level. If you are going a pve build dopple is supposed to be the most competitive rank7 choice, but I don't know the ideal build up to it.

Stat wise most of those do the same thing: enough con to not die (so ~20k-22k hp with gear) and then whatever primary stat for the build. Pelt3 generally goes full con because its damage is irrelevant, but I recommend against going that route unless you have a really good reason. Archer may do something a bit different with dex I'm not 100% clear on archer builds, but swordsman doesn't really want dex for pve because you always hit, evasion is not very good at all, and in order for crit to be better than just going straight str you need an obscenely high attack or some baked in crit rate that swordsman just don't have access to right now.

There are tons more viable combinations, and the game is going to have balance patches and new content that might invalidate popular builds or boost up other builds. It's also likely not completely figured out.

With all that said, almost every class can level fine. And there are a few more strong meta builds than the ones I listed above. Things like support wizard, wiz1/cryo1/linker2/chrono3 for pure pve, wiz1/cryo3/chrono3 is also popular and supposed to be decent in pvp, both of those generally go full con, and a bunch of other builds. Also, for pvp things change drastically. If you don't care about playing class combination of the patch then almost everything is viable.

Also, releveling kind of sucks if you choose something awful. I have a cleric2/krivis3 and that class is straight garbage. You can support fine but you're left wondering why you're just not a priest because priests buffs do the same thing but better and the things you get as Krivis aren't good. Zaibas has a fixed area attack ratio of 1 and too long of a cooldown for the damage it does relative to diev3's stuff. Daino is completely invalidated by pardoner scrolls that give it.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 18:44 on May 10, 2016

# ¿ May 10, 2016 17:55

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Scoss posted:

I'm following this Fletcher guide from TOSbase just to get me rolling http://www.tosbase.com/tools/skill-simulator/build/xdsm1mvlbx/

He's advising 4 STR: 2DEX: 1CON, is that bad? Should I go full STR instead?

Probably not. Archer is different because they actually have high enough attack abilities where dex could be good, and they get bonus crit rate. I don't know the math for archer stuff, but it looks like fletcher has abilities that might pass up ~3200 attack which is the threshold for dex surpassing str at the current max level stuff. There is this spreadsheet for crit stuff if you want to be a big nerd. I didn't check the math but no one has really disputed it yet.

Fletcher is also decent from what I have heard, but I haven't seen any.

There are a few classes that are really bad, but most classes are decent in this game. Even swordsman do fine in the current content. My next character will likely be some kind of swordsman or a pvp wizard with a weird build.

edit: vv Boss killer stuff is pretty cool. Those dailies are a slog with most random groups.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 18:42 on May 10, 2016

# ¿ May 10, 2016 18:15

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Scoss posted:

Is spirit basically a total dump stat? Even on casters?

It's decent for priest type builds because it boosts their buffs.

It's worse than int, an arguably already kind of garbage stat (that you should still get as a damaging caster focused on pve), for casters.

Silento posted:

Evasion is actually very good, even with -79 evade from Finestra I still evade very often with only like 140-50 dex at nearly 230. Also, crit is awesome and Hoplite gets tons, which goes good with Dragoon if you aren't forced to go Templar like me. Also also, I don't think swordys do that much less damage than the average other class. Their main problem is they do that damage from melee range, which opens them up to taking tons of damage from high level monsters, damage which their once-substantial hp boost does not scale to match.

Built in crit is fine. The issue is str gives better returns than dex for damage, even with crit, unless you pass a really high amount of attack. Depending on lots of things you don't lose much damage getting some dex, and dex owns in pvp supposedly.

The issue with evasion is that it's not necessary or that useful for endgame pve stuff. Just due to how everything that isn't evasion works rather than evasion itself. It's not actually a bad thing at all, it's just a completely unnecessary thing with how pve works right now.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 00:15 on May 11, 2016

# ¿ May 11, 2016 00:07

Khorne: May 1, 2002

YoshiOfYellow posted:

So do I just not want to invest INT at all as a caster? I think I've put 2 points into it on the very small amount of time I've gotten to mess around but I figure that's not really going to break a build. What I've read is basically just pump a bunch of CON and be a beef wizard.

I'm pretty sure the dps casters who are pve focused get int. I'd just check a guide for whatever build you are.

PVP focused people tend to get pretty much no int. I know cryo3/chrono3 goes loads of con, and the support builds go loads of con.

# ¿ May 11, 2016 00:19

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Voted Worst Mom posted:

I don't think spirit is a dump stat honestly but I'm a SPR only chaplain so maybe I'm just insane

Priest/chaplain is like the only class I can think of that likes spirit.

# ¿ May 11, 2016 08:25

Khorne: May 1, 2002

YoshiOfYellow posted:

I think I've finally decided on my first trial run being a C3 Cryo/C3 Psychokino. I know it's more a PVP build than a PVE one but it looked fun to me and having excessive amounts of CC and enemy placement skills seems cool.

I still wanna figure out some kinda Cleric build at some point too though since there's some interesting concepts going on. Particularly Bokor, Sadhu, Oracle, and Kabbalist.

I'm enjoying myself so far though with the barest amount of playtime.

They nerfed cryo+psycho in pvp on kToS. It didn't make its way to international yet, but it should pretty soon.

# ¿ May 11, 2016 09:11

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Mikemo Tyson posted:

So I'm trying to buy TP but can't seem to find where to do it at. From what I googled it says that TP will be purchasable once the game leaves early access. Isn't it out of early access? I want to add a token for that sweet sweet 30% more xp from monster slaying.

On lots of maps it works to be far less than +30% exp because it's additive with a bunch of other bonuses you get just for existing.

I guess it's close enough to +30% in instances.

# ¿ May 15, 2016 16:42

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Maha posted:

Would I regret burning a bunch of exp cards to get me from 25 to 30? Wiz2 sucks and I'm feeling very underpowered. Should I be buying NPC gear?

You shouldn't be buying npc gear, and you mostly use exp cards to be in a good level range for the current zone. There's no point in hoarding them until way later, and even then hoarding them just effects what grind areas you have access to in the 200s.

Nothing is underpowered at that level because auto attacks kill things in a few hits generally.

# ¿ May 29, 2016 07:56

Khorne: May 1, 2002

If you plug in a slow usb thumb drive (that has nothing to do with windows/the game on it) the fps will tank and the game will even crash sometimes at random.

No, I am not joking. I can plug in a thumb drive and have 0.75-2 fps steady, unplug it and have 14 fps in the same crowded town channel. I can also leave it plugged in and have 0.75-2 fps for 20+ minutes.

I hope their optimizations also fix whatever ridiculous call they are making that would have that influence framerate on a frame by frame basis.

quote:

draw calls

The actual quantity of their draw calls is no big deal on modern hardware. The issue is they are sending data to the gpu each time, and they are doing it with piddly amounts of data on top of that. Glad they're fixing it somewhat.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 22:13 on May 30, 2016

# ¿ May 30, 2016 22:01

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Kuhmondo posted:

To IMC's credit the server lag has been reduced greatly from my experience. My charged skills actually match their charge bar now. At least they're making good progress for the re-opening!

Does it still lag like hell on sunday/monday until maintenance? I guess this week we won't know because they had a bunch of maints even later into the week.

# ¿ Jun 6, 2016 00:11

Khorne: May 1, 2002

SSH IT ZOMBIE posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbApQOzAyoU
What do you people make of this?

It's well known and has been used since the closed betas.

# ¿ Nov 2, 2016 03:33

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# ¿ May 18, 2024 05:07

Khorne: May 1, 2002

I have been kind of tempted to finish leveling my linker/chrono/sage, but at the same time I feel like there's no point at all to playing this game.

Noted ToS players, why do I want to level up.

also, it being real chill will probably be nice because my life is about to pick up and I will need a chill out activity

# ¿ Jan 12, 2017 08:18

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