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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

If a costume shows any skin they painted over it with chrome paint (look up the wedding dress)

This is hilariously untrue if you've actually played the game. They changed a few costumes but not remotely all.

Edit: Like, hell, Maiko and her giant-rear end improbably-wobbling boobs alone should disprove that.

ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

There's a subplot of a demonic photographer that got altered somewhat and now all his photos are more tasteful, the character he kidnaps is also no longer in distress and is just sitting in the background bored

This is also untrue. The character is being forced into a 'stylish' pose and looks distinctly uncomfortable when they snap out of it.

I can't speak for the others but those two in particular are just straight-up huge exaggerations at best.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Jun 25, 2016

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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

I'll be honest and say that, based off what I heard about the Japanese version vs what I've played of the localization, the photographer plot honestly makes a lot more sense and comes across better in the US version. It goes from being embarrassed about bikini photos to being more about general photography, which in turn makes the sympathetic elements come across better. The change to focus on 'communicating intent through photos' and from bikinis to stylish (or 'stylish') clothing helps sell what the scene is going for better than bikini photos would to an English-speaking audience i suspect.

To be honest before it came out people talked a lot about how 'inexplicable' the change is but in context the bikini photo thing isn't really relevant. It isn't a plotline about being embarrassed, it's a plotline about communicating meaning through body language and the embarrassment is kinda secondary to the character just having trouble doing that until she realizes how important it is. (And while I know they changed the dialogue I'm pretty comfortable saying that this was the intent of the Japanese plotline too, though I may have to go look it up.)

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Jun 25, 2016

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Cake Attack posted:

what are the exact mechanics behind first strikes again? I feel like I don't always get one when I should

You should always get one if you knock an enemy down with your sword and then walk into them.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Regy Rusty posted:

Nah it's random. Knocking them down is just what makes it possible to do one.

I guess I've just been lucky then.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007


ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Dunban posted:

Is the clerk at Anzu supposed to be Cath from FE6?

I am pretty sure most/all the clerks are supposed to be Fire Emblem characters, yeah.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Ma-spells with your high magic damage characters are pretty great as it makes it much easier to burn down large groups of enemies before they get a turn, but if you really need the skill slot then just stick with single.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

So far I've honestly found the Slayer skills a bit too situational to really be worth a slot. That may change later on but usually it's more sensible to swap to someone with the elemental or weapon weakness than to try to force one. I'm sure there will be a bonus boss or something that requires it but eh.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

That said you get ways around that later. Once you can do Sub-Sessions you'll gain a bunch of weapon mastery from that and your protagonist gets a skill which gives 20% of all weapon mastery exp to the sub-characters. There's also a Watchfulness skill for back-lane EXP gain.

Cake Attack posted:

hmm

for those who've beaten the game, is this a pick a party and stick with it game, or is it the kind of game where you get enough out of diversification to make it worth rotating

I haven't finished it but diversification is a must. Your team just can't cover everything on its own and having a fully-equipped party means your sessions get a lot more powerful.

Class Change allows you to pick what the character diversifies into though.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

LibbyM posted:

Since the side stories are tied into characters stage levels, I take it it requires quite a bit of extra grinding if I wanted to see everyone's side stories? Or is there a way to quickly rank up someones stage levels late in the game?

Any character who is behind the curve seems to gain enhanced everything. I had a character start at 2 star power and they were gaining points really quickly as I used them.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Infinity Gaia posted:

Can I get a version that just fixes the wedding dress to not be appallingly ugly?

Edit: But for real tho, good for them. Isn't it better this way, that everyone can enjoy the game? It might not matter to us, but for the people it matters it seems undeniably like a good thing.

The people who it matters to are upset they can't masturbate to a teenage in a bikini so to be honest I don't have a ton of sympathy for them.

That or I guess they're very very very big enthusiasts of a very specific wedding dress but I'm not particularly jumping to give benefit of the doubt to the mysteriously large group of wedding dress enthusiasts who can't enjoy a game without it.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Infinity Gaia posted:

That's the thing though, they aren't even asking for sympathy at this point, they just went and edited the game to their tastes. If they were demanding Nintendo change stuff back, then sure, but I don't feel them developing their own version is worthy of mockery, just let them do their own thing. Besides, you know that you're being a little reductionist, I have some friends (massive weebs) who just hate any form of change from the original. While I believe change can be for the best, who am I to judge if someone disagrees to the point of going into the game and replacing stuff themselves?

When we're talking about a niche title that sold poorly in Japan and is probably not selling well in the US, it actually isn't a 'live and let live' thing. If they decide to pirate the game (as is pretty likely because most people really upset about this aren't going to be patching their legally purchased copy on a homebrew Wii U and the censorship bullshit makes them feel 'justified' for doing so) then it actually has a negative impact rather than being neutral.

They also did demand Nintendo change stuff back, Nintendo just ignored them.

They absolutely deserve to be mocked. They're not interested in censorship or localization, most of them probably don't actually know what was changed except for misleading videos. If they were they'd probably be playing the Japanese version because the localized version of the game has a number of edits that I'm willing to bet the patch doesn't catch because they're not women in bikinis. (Or they're using the exact same script in which case they don't care about any dialogue edits, just women in bikinis.)

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Jun 26, 2016

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

xedo posted:

I think savage enemies are based on your party level, not the dungeon you are in. I doubled back from the chapter 2 dungeon to the 106 idolsphere and the savage enemies had changed from a trio of lvl 11s to a quartet of lvl 26s.

This actually makes for really easy powerlevelling if you're prepared. At any point in the game go to 106 and activate Touma's skill... I think Estoma? And the only enemy spawns will be occasional savage enemies that will give you a boatload of xp. I felt like I got much better xp gains fighting a few savage enemies than mowing down waves of mooks in the current dungeon. This will probably also help with powerlevelling somebody who had been benched.

I missed this earlier but it's not always good to do that. You'll need a fair bit of Prestige later on once you have a large party and Radiant Unities are costing 5 or more each, so it's worthwhile fighting a lot of weaker enemies to build that up.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

This is the dumbest thing I've heard you say jfc.

Not everyone wants to uncensor a game to jerk it (though those people do exist). Maybe some people just find the changes really unnecessary and just want the original game? Like come on dude, I'd probably do it myself if A: I knew how in the first place and B: It let me keep Tsubasa's outfit from Chapter 2.

If people want to remove boob smoke or whatever then let them :shrug:.

The changes are almost universally to things made for people to jerk it to. The "I want the original game" argument doesn't work when you're playing the translated version which by definition isn't the original version and (barring a full retranslation which I really doubt) isn't even a literal translation of the Japanese version.

If you want the original version you would be importing the Japanese release. You don't. You want a translated version and are okay with all the dialogue changes and localization that comes with that, just as long as it has titties.

I hate the dumb "I just want the original" argument because it isn't true. The original is in Japanese. You don't want that. You want a translation that suits your specific desires which would either be terrible (not localizing any jokes or references which would make a lot of dialogue completely incoherent) or as different from the original as the version you dislike just in a different way.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jun 26, 2016

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

The thing is people can understand the english script- they most likely can't understand the Japanese script. I wouldn't want to import a long JRPG that I couldn't understand to get around censors- but if you told me all I had to do was download a file and that's literally it and I can turn my legal English copy to the Japanese version but I get to keep the script readable then sure why not? What's wrong with giving people a choice in what they want?

It's literally saying that you should default to being happy about literally any change made dude.

You're fine with not being happy with changes but the patch isn't resolving those changes. It's just putting anime tits back in. That is where the "I just want the original" argument falls apart unless literally the only part of the original you care about is an underage girl in a bikini.

ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

E: Actually you do realize all the patch does is put the original Japanese content back in and keeps the English NoA script right (It just changes Aversa's cutscene, the wedding dress, etc)? It kind of sounds like you think it's a entire re-translation or something.

No. I said literally the exact opposite in fact. The fact that it keeps the English script is why the "I just want the original" argument fails, because the English script is heavily localized.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Rexroom posted:

I think most sensible people object to the changes because they remember the horrors committed in the name of localization.

"Someone did a bad thing, ergo we should never ever localize ever" is not an argument made by any sensible person ever.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

Why was the game edited so heavily in the first place then? Like originally it was "chill all they're doing is giving the characters new outfits instead of just bikini's or whatever". Now it's "They've rewritten entire plots/subplots of the game so it's impossible to toggle a version you want without it being silly."

The game was not actually edited that heavily. Most of it was stuff that is commonly done in localization because conveying jokes, character voice and personality involves some rewriting because otherwise it comes across either flat and dry or awkward as hell. The other changes amounted to "we're erring on the side of caution when it comes to sexualzing teenagers" which really shouldn't be a controversial thing.

Chapter 2 got a lot of 'rewriting' but the writing doesn't actually change the core plotline. (And I looked up the drat Japanese version to confirm this.) It rewrites the dialogue to change the fact that it went from gravure photography to general photography which is a fairly minor change that doesn't change the themes of the plotline.

Like the "they changed SO MUCH! It's a completely different plotline" thing isn't true. The core idea of the plotline is the same and the only meaningful difference is that it goes from gravure to general modeling which basically conveys the exact same idea without the distraction of "wait, this dude is being creepy about teenagers in bikinis" which is not what the plot is going for.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Jun 26, 2016

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

The bulk of my problem with this argument is basically this:

Localization can contain a lot of changes, some of which are legitimately bad. However the actual discussion about localization has been entirely coopted by people upset about anime tits. Rather than discussion the localization as a whole almost every single one of these recent conversations has sparked from "they removed something fanservicy" and walked backwards from there.

Even here, with TMS, we can't actually discuss Chapter 2 because people are more interested in the change to bikini pictures than they are to the themes, dialogue and context of the chapter. Rather than discussion the localization and if it properly coveys what the original went for it's "they took out bikini photos, everything is ruined, I want the ORIGINAL." Which is not only reductive and annoying but sours things for localizations that DO have to go outside the norm in order to properly convey ideas that don't properly translate.

It poisons the well for actual discussion of localization or even arguments over what constitutes genuinely bad localization because it's always starting from a position of tits first. Nobody is demanding that Alexander O. Smith's translation of Final Fantasy 12 be completely removed for the English release of FF12 despite it being a significantly bigger change to the game than anything in TMS and an arguably more interesting thing to discuss because it's a case of "does heavy changes that suit the tone qualify as good or bad localization?"

It's fine to discuss why a localization is bad but if the begging of your conversation is "it's a bad localization because teenagers in bikinis" then it's not going anywhere good.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Regy Rusty posted:



I love this game

The best part is that it changes her combat quotes.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Rexroom posted:

By the way, I read in a review that the bikini Tsubasa in the "uncensored" Japanese version appears as an ad-lib performance during battles.

Tsubasa in a bikini appears in other scenes in the game. It was that particular chapter that was changed, not "bikinis are removed from the game entirely" and a good portion of it probably had to do with the fact that gravure stuff is honestly pretty goddamn creepy.

Ibram Gaunt posted:

I'm upset they didn't translate the battle dialogue but I can't think of any sub only game that does that so Im guessing it has to do with the hassle of injecting subs where there weren't any even in the jp rather than laziness though.

There are some that do. I said this in the RPG thread but I suspect it was a case of not being worth it because none of the combat dialogue is really meaningful.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Regy Rusty posted:

Why do the costumes have to be so expensiiiiive

You'll have ways to get hilariously absurd amounts of money very shortly if you don't already, largely through Session chains.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

I'll be honest and say that as far as I am the DLC cheat dungeons feel like they would be useless. EXP is plentiful unless you're super-overleveled, master points get easier and easier to get as the game progresses to the point I'm frequently out of new stuff to get unless I'm going for +1 weapons and I'm usually sitting on enough cash to buy every costume + fully upgrade my armor every chapter.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

I have to finish TMS ASAP because Super Robot Wars, the VLR sequel and Star Ocean all come out this week!!!!!

I have too many obscenely anime game to play, it's a real problem.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Cake Attack posted:

star ocean looks bad at least, so that'll clear up some time

It is my lowest priority, yes.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Oxxidation posted:

I'm not sure why this game's designs look ok to me whereas Star Ocean's look like something I'd see crawling up my leg during a bad salvia trip.

Eye/face ratio, maybe.

Just much better art design. Star Ocean tries to straddle realistic and anime and the end result is horrifying. It uses realistic texture, weird character design and in general doesn't just embrace the drat anime look.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

It's sort of weird but I'm honestly impressed at how many vocal songs this game has. Usually when a game (especially a JRPG) has an 'idol' character or theme they get like two songs tops while here they've had an original song for basically every other sidequest.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Oxxidation posted:

So I've got an issue and the Wii U general is closed so I'll ask here - I got this off the eShop and cleared enough space to run it, but the console won't recognize that the biggest file (specifically the Xenosaga HD patch) was deleted, so it's effectively locking me out of being able to download the game.

Where do I go from here? I'll reformat the drive if I have do, I barely ever play on this console anyway.

I assume you've tried a full hard reboot and everything?

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

DrPaper posted:

They probably would be playing the Japanese version except Nintendo are the only ones still doing the backwards, archaic and anti-consumer practice of region locking their hardware.

Not even an iota of a chance. There are plenty of censored/changed games on non-Nintendo systems which nobody mass-imports when a change is made, because they like being able to actually read the text (and don't care about the text being localized or changed unless it is one of their personal anime titty bugbears.)


DrPaper posted:

I don't know why you have such a chip on your shoulder over what people do to their game, to be perfectly honest.

Because I'm comfortably convinced (and looking at forums backs this up) and they're pirating the gaming instead of buying it and using the censorship to 'justify' it, and for a niche game that can really use sales that's actually pretty lovely.

If I have a chip on my shoulder it is because I like JRPGs and I enjoy discussing JRPG localizations. I think there's a lot of interesting elements to it and times where severely bad choices have been made. However for the past year or two any conversation about it has been co-opeted by the Angry Anime Titty Brigade who are more interested in making sure they get their uncensored tits than discussing actual localization and its pros and cons.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Jun 27, 2016

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

DrPaper posted:

Except historically you are wrong. There have been several ATLUS titles specifically that have been mass-imported due to changes, since the PSP days. Many of these games also have English text built in due to English speakers in the Asian market, primarily in Hong Kong. Doesn't even matter because many games aren't always largely imported from Japan. The Inazuma games have been imported from the EU, and Southpark form the US, and neither of these were done for anime tittys.

There is a reason consumers despise region locking, and why Phil Spencer stepped up and removed it from the Xbox One.

You're talking about games with English-Asian versions which are not remotely the same thing, and those are mass-imported because they have Asian-English text, not because of 'changes.' I'm not even 100% clear what Atlus titles with Asian-English text and massive localization changes you're talking about in fact. Inazuma 11 and Tingle's Rosie Rupeeland or whatever are imported because they have existing English versions that are not available. (South Park was a massive censorship thing though, that is true, but also a case where it's a fully-translated game censored rather than the Japanese version.)

Region locking sucks but it has absolutely nothing to do with this. Even if the Wii U wasn't region locked people wouldn't be mass-importing the Japanese version of TMS.

DrPaper posted:

And this is pretty reasonable. I personally don't feel it's just anime titties that are part of the problem in Tokyo Mirage Sessions subpar localization. Out of sync, overlapping and orphaned audio dialogue, DLC content not coming over -

I haven't encountered anything remotely significant in terms of out of sync or overlapping dialogue. I found one or two places but in one case it was in the original Japanese version. Being upset about the DLC content not coming over is fine but treating it like it's an exceptionally subpar translation is silly.

What would you call a good JRPG localization? It certainly can't be any of the other Atlus titles which frequently have things like mistranslated or straight-up untranslated text in places among other issues. Not anything from XSEED either for the same reason. NISA obviously not because they frequently add bugs into their games. Square-Enix is all over the place and while they usually translate everything the actual localization quality is frequently quite bad.

This is part of why I have a chip on my shoulder. Actual criticism is fine and any bugs or mistakes are fine criticism. Trying to use that criticism to go "See, it's actually a terrible translation" is excessive.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Jun 27, 2016

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

DrPaper posted:

I've had to wait 7 months to play this game on my Wii U due to region locking. Waiting for them to localize it. 6 months for Japanese only audio, dialogue inconsistencies between the text and audio, and less content, when if this were coming out for my PS4 or Xbox One I could have already played it.

On top of that it's also going to objectively have less content, that I can't play because I can't import #FE and play it on my Wii U.

It's not the end of the world, but dismissing it as just being people who want to jerk off to anime titties is retarded, because jerking off to anime titties isn't some limited venue that I can only get from Wii U games.

Well, I agree region locking sucks, but this patch stuff isn't about region locking and I think it's a bit disingenuous to pretend it is. It's about the changes to the game. If it had been brought over without the so-called censorship, even if it had every other complaint you said, I can promise you that you wouldn't have people stressing about patching it.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Sorbocules posted:

So, I've beaten chapter 2, and it's telling me I can do Kiria's 2nd side quest when she stage levels up. But She's already rank 7. Am I really supposed to be bringing that out, or is it a case where there just isn't a story gate in the way, but it's supposed to be done in chapter 3? Cause I spent a long time killing dudes in the 2nd dungeon, and emptied her mana bar twice with her cheapest spells and no rank up. So like 90 some casts, and factoring in sessions, thats also 90-100 kills. At least it's letting other Cain catch up on weapon skills, but I'm thinking they don't want me to have that rank yet, but didn't gate it.

It's really not worth trying to grind stage rank. The way the game is designed you'll hit your milestones just playing. I think it's hard-coded to not let you go above a certain level.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

SylvainMustach posted:

Is Tharja this creepy/weird/cool in fire emblem?

Yes, that's pretty much her defining trait. She's a weird crazy witch who likes hexing people and being strange.

She also likes helping orphans and is actually not a bad person beneath the surface-level batshit crazy.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Rorus Raz posted:

Is there any reason to hang onto light attacks instead of going for the medium version of it? I mean yes the EP cost, but that doesn't seem like a concern.

The only ones worth hanging on to are the one that inflict debuffs because those are crazy good. Otherwise upgrade.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Big Coffin Hunter posted:

I don't care about J-Pop or SMT but I love JRPGs and like Fire Emblem. Should I buy this?

Do you not like SMT or have you just never played it?

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Infinity Gaia posted:

So uhh I finally got to class change and the game told me I had 3 new Carnage Fusions available but they don't seem to be there? Do they only show up when I get out of intermission or what?

Those Carnage Fusions are available in the future, not right off the bat. It just means you can eventually create them.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Infinity Gaia posted:

I see. By the way, I did my first one pretty casually but now I'm wondering, how many master orbs are there in the game? I assume there's at least enough to class change each character, but maybe not to get everyone both classes? Of course, I'd rather hope there were precisely 14 orbs in the game (It's pretty drat obvious HETEROCHROMIA LONE WOLF will join eventually) but you never know with this stuff.

I think there's enough for both but I'm not sure. You get one for every character sidestory you finish at least

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

I really don't mind the lack of dub after seeing how many vocal songs there are. Getting an entire team of trained voice actors and actresses who all will need to do at least one J-Pop number each would be kind of insane.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Ibram Gaunt posted:

This is probably more a personal problem than anything but I dislike feeling like I constantly have to run out of a dungeon to get my new radiant skills/make new weapons ASAP. Makes it take a long time to get through dungeons.

Back out every time you open a shortcut. That makes the pacing fine.

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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Also it uses the FE weapon triangle so you can pretty reliably figure out their weapon weakness at least.

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