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This is the best I could dig up for alive aikido sparring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyCWhBlTFUc&t=40s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdy_5nrkTJY&t=30s This guy clearly knows what he's doing in terms of range and timing, though his techniques only get him so far. That first video mentions a correct application @1:17, but it ends up being a total sacrifice throw. The wrist lock to throw at 2:07 seems legit to me. The trip takedown in the 2nd video works, but you see that in any number of arts. Not to mention the aikidoka has a pretty big size and strength advantage on his partners. Against a pure striker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NinO0vGum38 So yeah, the stuff that works (catching kicks into trips) is pretty recognizable. The gloves protecting the wrists and hands seems to be a problem, as is, you know, resistance. The TKD guy hilariously gets the aikidoka into a headlock and only to get wristlocked after taking it easy. Assessing these guys, they clearly have stuff that works and aren't wilting under some real contact, but I have 0 idea if that's what most people who practice aikido idealize how the art would work in sparring. I think the big selling point of "aliveness" is that you can readily grade yourself at any given point in your progression on what's working for you and what you want to improve. The less sparring you do, the less information you have about how robust your techniques are. In conclusion, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2Jtw-3Q_qE
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Feb 22, 2017 23:07
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willie_dee posted:None of that looks real to me... the BJJ fighters are massively undersized and don't know how to strike, the TKD guy is too busy throwing stupid kicks from miles away. It doesn't look like real MMA fights because they're not. I don't think we need perfect conditions to be able to make evaluations. The BJJ vs Aikido can be regarded as grappling only -- we can give Aikido leeway in the same way that we treat BJJ as incomplete for striking. Even if you knew the TKD guy was gonna be throwing all sorts of kicks, I liked the fact that the Aikido guy had answers for those kicks that he applied outside of drills.
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Feb 22, 2017 23:53
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LionArcher and other aikido practitioners -- would you mind looking at those videos I linked and address: - does this stuff look like aikido, as you practice it? - do their overall gameplans resemble how you think aikidoka ought to approach the same situations (grappling, lots of kicks) - what if anything are they not doing that they should do, from the aikido repertoire? I gather, insofar as styles are preferences for certain moves and tactics, that aikido is even more about efficiency than (classical) judo is. But it's hard for me to understand how that works out in what little video I can find that seems like credible aikido grappling.
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Feb 23, 2017 05:07
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Siivola posted:It's been a long while since I wore that sweet skirt, but I watched the vs TKD vid and I find it pretty clearly aikido. The matwork in particular is very familiar. Tactically, I do think that's pretty much in line with what I learned: Keep a distance, wait for the opening, do a takedown, shoulder lock on the mat. Thanks, that's really helpful. Can you watch the first vs BJJ video and analyze that, too? One thing that's somewhat surprising is how rigidly karate-like the guy's guard stance is. I feel like any hands in front of body would accomplish the same thing.
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Feb 23, 2017 17:50
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Siivola, thanks for the breakdowns. That's more that I've learned about aikido than every other post on it in the history of this thread (and the previous one).KildarX posted:That said, Aikido guy did demo some pretty sound technique. He didn't work very hard to stop the shots because he didn't need to, between the poor technique and size difference. But hey, at least someone offered that completely unscripted offense. To see any wristlock/shoulder lock attacks coming off even partially successful is a hell of a lot more than the aikido demos everyone likes to denounce.
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Feb 23, 2017 19:37
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Novum posted:IMO opinion Judo and BJJ should go back to being one art. What would be the right ruleset? BJJ plus ippon?
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Feb 23, 2017 21:33
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How about 8pts for what would be ruled ippon?
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Feb 23, 2017 22:01
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LionArcher posted:Watched the videos. I know I'm late to the discussion. It looks like aikido, just sloppy. His stances between engagement indicate he looks like he's done no cross training, and indicate a lack of sparring practice. His answers are okay, execution is flawed, especially of the locks. The two I saw that were obvious if applied correctly should have taken him down. quote:The strategies look like someone who would get corrected by an instructor afterwards.
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Feb 23, 2017 22:50
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CommonShore posted:Ippon would only be awarded to clearly high-amplitude throws executed with control (ie something that would result in a KO or serious injury if done on a non-padded floor) and require positional dominance on the landing - that's a high bar. That seems like a higher bar than sport judo, even. With just scoring high amplitude throws (with ref discretion on landing with control), sacrifice throws are rewarded by the same chance to scramble and reverse position that already exists for not finishing takedowns. Rigging up different rulesets for sparring sounds really fun, and I wish it could be done safely wrt some of the more risky throws for people unfamiliar with them.
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Feb 23, 2017 22:51
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Sambo's really quick leg locks and knee attacks work like how aikido wristlocks want to.
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Feb 24, 2017 03:27
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Undeclared Eggplant posted:I studied Aikido for about 10 years and have a black belt. Also started BJJ about 5 years ago and that's all I train now, mainly because (oddly) I find it easier on my body. Starting in response to your last sentence, if you never did any sort of live exercises like that, even as a black belt, how do you know what aikido training would look in those situations? I find it interesting that the 3 aikido commenters are on a spectrum about how much engagement is shown: - Siivola: stepping right up to the point of engagement and waiting to counter/draw into a trap - LionArcher: "let them come to you, which he does" and not "moves towards them without engaging, but basically trying to bluff them into an appealing attack" - Undeclared Eggplant: not a lot of redirection, some blocking/facing head-on The thing that fatherdog always harped on, which I agree with, is that any fighting system that works will converge on the same look, with personal preferences and physical attributes informing strategic tendencies (like waiting to counter and moving off line to escape offensive motion). It's discouraging that someone who's done aikido for a long time can visualize how it might be executed in a live situation and yet not see it at all being used by another (presumed) practioner. Overall, I'm just dissatisfied that there's so little video to look at. 2 of the 3 above don't think of what I linked as good aikido, but all of the "alive" proponents in this thread have no other points of reference, available online, anyways.
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Feb 24, 2017 21:34
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In a sport context, I think it's a pretty low bar to have enough defense and just keep backing away from all offense. My take on what standing and waiting is that they're ready to snatch up the first mistake and exploit it.
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Feb 24, 2017 22:04
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willie_dee posted:Hence my wonder how an Akido player would do with a boxer simply jabbing from distance. Just parry and move, sort of like how the guy vs TKD was doing to uncommitted kicks.
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Feb 24, 2017 23:43
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willie_dee posted:Once the boxer found his range? Threatened with right hands, hooks and body shots? I'm not so sure. Hence the Kai power old dude getting smashed. The old man was a fraud and didn't know how to fight at all. That's irrelevant to whether there are non boxing techniques that could manage against a boxing offense.
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Feb 25, 2017 01:13
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willie_dee posted:that Akido man Again, he was scamming his students for all he was worth, not someone remotely serious about aikido. If aikido has anything to offer, we could never learn that from watching a video of him "fighting."
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Feb 25, 2017 22:48
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willie_dee posted:Agreed. Which is why we have 0 video of any Akido working for real ever. If you think all aikido schools are scams, that's a pretty narrow viewpoint. Also if this is a troll from your repeated misspelling of aikido, 
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Feb 26, 2017 04:50
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hi liter posted:Aikido people who want to compete should just go do Judo. While, true, I think that's not the argument being made here. It's that, if we made someone advanced in aikido compete under judo or BJJ rules, whether there are basic elements of the style (that'd be on display) that would make it effective and yet markedly different from typical gi grappling techniques.
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Feb 27, 2017 19:24
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hi liter posted:This question is similar in my mind to 'what would make a rugby player good in the NFL?'. The have to run fast, hit hard and be strong and athletic. A very good rugby player would have a huge leg up on jumping into practice and being told, ok, only tackle the guy with the ball after it's hiked. Much more so than someone who'd never played a ball-carrying contact sport before. The difference between that person and someone who doesn't "train" is huge. In the same vein, someone who does live aikido would show better than someone who'd never actually grappled in their life. I don't care if they are blind to specific tactics and keep getting owned by some basic throw; I just want to see what they try to do in a live setting. The aikido championship videos help with that, in that the ruleset is vaguely familiar and produces action that is comprehensible.
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Feb 28, 2017 16:14
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LionArcher posted:And you've got me in this thread at 6 ft and 210. (I'm cutting to 190ish starting tomorrow). Which is funny, because my head sensei is about 5.9 and would be BRUTAL in a sparing match.
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Mar 1, 2017 01:27
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CommonShore posted:even if you could hit them you couldn't hit all five of these nerves, So what you're saying is you need a five finger attack... to cause death?
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Mar 10, 2017 04:11
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Striking sports are great, but I think more people prefer not to get hit in the head. There's no way to avoid taking damage in the long term if you're sparring. I'm not saying that to discourage anyone, but to just to point out the risk that you have to accept.
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Mar 23, 2017 03:29
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willie, this vid was made for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFVkzYDNJqo
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Mar 24, 2017 21:37
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Programming is the best base for not doing MA.
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Mar 25, 2017 05:29
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This is a good discussion. Thinking to the last person to ask "why isn't there more striking chat in this thread?," I don't see nearly as many questions like this come up for striking. Likely cuz there aren't as many people practicing, but I'm sure if a similar question were asked, there'd be people to discuss it. I'll try one -- one of the moves I've been improving is a lead Brazilian/question mark kick. I usually know if it'll land and will pull it so it lands pretty gently. But part of me thinks if I want to practice it for real, I should keep pushing through, slowly. Either they'll catch my kick and push/throw me off, or they'll have their head pushed off line where I can follow up and they can't. The goal is to keep my mechanics more real to how I'd throw it if I wanted to knock them out. If I throw it like I do now, it'll never have that heavy power behind it.
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Mar 28, 2017 00:24
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JaySB posted:I know this is going to sound kind of like a stupid question but isn't that what a heavy bag is for? Practicing your techniques at 100% or close to it? A bag doesn't move enough up top. Like I have a shot at moving someone's head and swinging my leg through and planting, but not to a bag. I think pads can help with the overall combo flow for sure. I have a pretty serious case of "sparring partner mentality" where I never press hard when I see an opening, and always just show techniques. I really gotta do more for body shots.
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Mar 28, 2017 01:26
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:when you guys are old you're going to be speech-slurred retards When Junior Seau shot himself in the chest to donate his brain to science, that was my wakeup call. I was like, how long do I want to do this?
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Mar 28, 2017 02:08
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Bangkero posted:Are you thinking along the lines of whether you or your sparring partner will have anything to gain if you follow through with the kick? And if you do follow through will you have the power needed for a knock out? Or are you pulling your kick since you're being a safe sparring partner? Yeah, I'm pulling the kick so I don't hurt anyone. It probably lands with less force than a decent hook. But I do want to throw it hard for competition. And there, I need to have an answer for how to disengage or follow through from a harder kick. Trying to swing through gives a sparring partner (who presumably isn't hurt by the kick) a lot of time to catch the kick and dump me. But that motion, as I see it, is the only way to approximate the weight shift and followthrough of a hard kick.
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Mar 28, 2017 02:38
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I can hear willie_dee getting the vapors on that self-defense stuff: http://drunkcyclist.com/2017/03/28/tales-from-the-trail-getting-stompd/
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Mar 31, 2017 17:59
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Xguard86 posted:What an rear end in a top hat. I don't know if I would have done better than that poor dude, getting assaulted out of nowhere. I sometimes think about whether I would try to lead with a headbutt on someone if I had my bike helmet on. Would take it off asap to they didn't have a nice handle on my head, though. willie_dee posted:i don't know what "getting the vapors" means, quote:I would of broken this blokes arm for sure though (or at least tried and see how my BJJ works irl)
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Apr 1, 2017 21:07
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redgubbinz posted:found the ten page argument It happens every 30 pages so your odds were good.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:52
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Lol willie, fix the autocorrect on your browser.
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Apr 3, 2017 23:05
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Odddzy posted:I had an interesting conversation What did she say? My very limited experience with cardion <fightsport> classes is that they're so far removed from hypothetical fighting situations that you'd have to ask the instructor more questions if you got it into your head that you might need to fight for self defense.
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Apr 4, 2017 03:57
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I meant how did she specifically self-assess her fighting skills based on the class? That's the obvious question to ask if you suspected she might be thinking that she was getting good at fighting.
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Apr 4, 2017 17:42
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JaySB posted:Future Willie_Dee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK22F4DGAL8&t=130s
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Apr 4, 2017 18:39
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JaySB posted:Could you tone your SJW down a bit? I too desire Steroid Justice. *attempts huracana to arm bar on bike thief*
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Apr 4, 2017 21:46
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Bad technique in throwing/subduing someone: https://gma.yahoo.com/video-appears-show-colorado-police-officer-slamming-woman-134037392--abc-news-topstories.html
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Apr 12, 2017 01:52
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Hmmm, what about calf slicers?
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Apr 14, 2017 21:10
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I was able to sidekick someone off his feet today. He was like 95% there with a superman punch, but I still did it 
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Apr 21, 2017 04:43
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Bangkero posted:Plenty of really good Muay Thai schools as well - Old School Muay Thai, TKMT, Krudar Muay Thai: K1, e: I forgot Siam No. 1. Which gyms might be the cheapest/ coolest for dropping in for a day and sparring with folks?
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May 4, 2017 03:45
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Cool. I'm in a similar boat as Xguard -- might be coming up to Toronto a few days every couple months for work, and I have my big annual tournament at the end of July to train toward.
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May 4, 2017 07:36
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