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valentinus was right
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Sep 20, 2016 20:20
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With respect, a fully good God wouldn't need to grant wishes in the first place. Prosperity Gospel is repugnant, to be sure, but it's repugnant for saying that we live in the world we wish it were, not for the wishing itself.
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Sep 21, 2016 04:09
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Paramemetic posted:That's the thing for me too. If your religion leads to your feeling at peace, happy, contented, and acting as a moral person, then that is the best possible religion for you and you should do it as much or as little as you need. If your religion leads to your feeling disturbed, upset, saddened, suffering, or acting as an immoral person, then maybe consider something else. There are loads of options! If my beliefs can make me happy or make me moral, but not both, which matters more?
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Sep 21, 2016 18:15
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Shaddak posted:I think the whole idea behind the sect was to take some of the beliefs of primitive Christianity and, reframe them in scientific terms. What I obviously didn't realize as a kid was the beliefs are actually kind of Matrixy. The idea that physical world is an illusion and, when you know the truth, you can accomplish anything. The Matrix (especially the first movie) is almost explicitly Gnostic -- the material world is a prison and its very existence is the result of a horrifying cosmic error that separated the divine spark in man from its source. (And Christ / Neo's purpose is to come into the material world and retrieve it, not through faith so much as by knowledge -- hence the emphasis on knowing the truth.) Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Sep 21, 2016 |
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Sep 21, 2016 18:39
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Paramemetic posted:Trick question, the path to true and enduring happiness comes through being moral, whereas being immoral can only give transient pleasure that is ultimately unfulfilling and only creates more misery. It's only a trick question if you already subscribe to that belief, and we're talking about choice of belief, here.  It seems patently obvious to me that being a moral person, at least in this world, is a path of thorns. The world isn't made for us, so ensuring the well-being of human beings means coming into conflict with the world -- a conflict that does not favor us in the long term. If you underestimate the world in order to maintain your own happiness, you'll waste your efforts fighting things that can't be fought, or assume victories you haven't actually achieved. Shaddak posted:As I've read more about Gnostic Christianity, I've realized that Christian Science borrowed alot of it's ideas. The major difference being that instead of an evil god creating the physical world as a prison, it's an illusion created by an error in our understanding of our true relationship with God. Christian Science is big on the concept of error. Most Gnostic traditions are pretty big on error to begin with. The Demiurge doesn't create maliciously -- it's an arrogant, prideful creature that sincerely believes itself to be God. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Sep 21, 2016 |
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Sep 21, 2016 18:52
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That poem is especially disingenuous given that Chesterton constantly gave Oscar Wilde poo poo for being a fun-loving pessimist.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:40
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I went to non-denominational preschool under a Catholic church.
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Sep 23, 2016 19:55
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is it gonna be quantitative or qualitative because i'd be very interested to know which religions and/or denominations revolt the most
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Sep 25, 2016 18:17
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can't god just be intersex / transcend gender completely without needing to be two additional people, male and female, to do it?
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Sep 28, 2016 20:15
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HEY GAL posted:http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/religious-tradition/catholic/#beliefs-and-practices more than that i'm an atheist, i wasn't raised religious, i'm a generation removed from anyone who was religious on my father's side and probably like three generations removed on my mother's i probably still think like a Protestant because that poo poo's just endemic in the American cultural consciousness (of course i've also spent the better part of a year trying to learn to think more like a Catholic for personal reasons and because as a high functioning autist the idea that the universe operates according to strict legalistic rules that i don't understand and which violently disagree with me makes perfect sense and actually has a perverse sort of appeal, but that's neither here nor there)
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Oct 3, 2016 20:22
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AmyL posted:What does liberal or conservative have to do with anything regarding not following the tenets of your faith? Why would it not?
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Oct 4, 2016 15:36
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my dad posted:Why, whyyyyy do so many Paradox games players believe that the mechanics of Paradox games are how the world actually works? Because they're filthy Simulationists.
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Oct 4, 2016 17:15
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I've heard from several different anecdotal sources that there's one gospel of Jews, one for gentiles, one for Greeks, etc -- it's about conveying the message of Christ in different cultural and historical contexts, and emphasizing things that would be important to that audience, not just to the writer.
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Oct 6, 2016 19:08
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i wanna make peace with my mortality through superior firepower
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Oct 11, 2016 03:08
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*drives by HEY GAL'S motte and bailey blasting the 9th symphony on speaker*
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Oct 13, 2016 21:05
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Thirteen Orphans posted:I was thinking it might be fun to do a Christianity Thread Secret Santa for Christmas. Unfortunately, the very first thing we'd have to do is decide when Christmas is and that's going to be difficult. as one of the secular gremlins who has taken over the holiday and made it about crass consumerism, it's on the 25th of December
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Oct 13, 2016 21:28
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Lutha Mahtin posted:god became a better DM over time still uses 3d6 in order most egregrious DMPC in history game rules as physics he's got a ways to go
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Oct 20, 2016 13:48
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HEY GAL posted:society works better if everyone is humble and tries to help others. it's in your rational self interest to foster such a world. I would say society works better if people are happy, and people are happier if they help and care for each other but fall short of Augustinian "contempt for self." One helps others because they have the same dignity and ability to experience suffering that you do, and don't like it any more than you do. To help others out of contempt for yourself and your own needs/desires is both bizarre and unsustainable.
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Oct 21, 2016 01:06
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I like the tax collector as the ultimate example of a sinner, though, it lacks that too-clean division between religious and political life. 
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Oct 21, 2016 01:06
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HEY GAL posted:where did i say contempt for self? i said humility You didn't, I was using your post as a springboard to address this: Disinterested posted:And it's worth remembering that self-love is, for Augustine, really the true origin of sin; there are two cities, one of the contempt of god and the love of self, the other of the contempt for self and the love of god.
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Oct 21, 2016 01:10
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Can't say I'm surprised. You could look at it as an expression of human pride, but you could also look at it as faith in God's workmanship; he couldn't possibly have made human beings that defective.
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Oct 24, 2016 07:56
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The Phlegmatist posted:Clearly God does not protect you from suffering; I mean crack open a random hagiography and it's probably gonna be like "was holy, lived in a world of poo poo, was brutally murdered." What matters though is not avoidance of suffering but how religion allows you to suffer well. I'm glad you said this because I was trying to think of how I could say it without sounding like an rear end in a top hat.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:44
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Deteriorata posted:He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. - Matt 5:45 Although of course I take the position that a fully Good God would protect you from suffering, that the fact that He does not implicitly gives us the right and duty to master the material world for ourselves, and that when suffering cannot be avoided the appropriate reaction is scorn for the cause of your suffering; "I suffer but will not be bowed!" Still, the core of all of this is that you will suffer, and any stable source of endurance against suffering is probably for the best.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:51
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Deteriorata posted:I'm not so sure that protecting us from suffering would actually be to our benefit, and thus not something a Good God would want to do. "Irresponsibility" as a vice only makes sense in a world where the risk of needs going unfilled exists; it's a circular argument. If your needs are met, and the needs of everyone who might otherwise have relied on you are met, you are free to create, discover, observe, and evaluate; to participate in the world in the mode of an artist instead of the mode of at best a repairman or soldier, and at worst, a prisoner. Being able to fix broken things is a virtue in a broken world, being able to fight is a virtue in a world that oppresses you, and the will to protest is a virtue in a broken, oppressive world that cannot be fixed or fought. But all of those things are contingent on the sad state of the world. e: Basically, selfishness comes from unmet needs. If the only unmet needs you have left are those that depend on the will and happiness of others, you'd have no reason to think only of yourself. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 19:23
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Deteriorata posted:By that logic, the wealthy aristocracy should be the most creative, loving, giving, altruistic people on earth since they and everyone they know have no needs unmet. If you follow the news at all, that seems not to be the case. Creativity and altruism do not seem to have any relationship to whether or not peoples' needs are being met. No one on this Earth is without unmet needs, which is to say, my thesis can't be tested. I just think Heaven is a cool idea. The wealthy aren't safe from mortality or hunger or loss, they just have more to lose. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 22:39
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Deteriorata posted:I misunderstood your point then. I thought you were arguing that people would be creative and virtuous if only they had all their needs met. I think a sentient mind not bound by hunger, exhaustion, and mortality would be good by default because it has no reason not to be. That's not you misunderstanding me, if there's any misunderstanding it happens a couple of inferences later. What I'm saying is more -- a universe of scarcity and need creates selfishness in any mind that has self-interest and is subject to the rules of that universe. It's not that we're too selfish to handle Heaven, it's that selflessness will always be a temporary aberration (or just simple mutualism) as long as we're in a universe where need constantly whips our heels. If you design a machine to destroy anything that lacks certain qualities, you don't get to judge what's left for possessing those qualities. The world we live in is a machine that selects for self-preservation and in the long term doesn't have enough resources for everyone. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 23:11
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Lutha Mahtin posted:so people who receive food stamps are lost causes? harsh Maybe he needs a saint for himself and his job, not his clients. Alternatively, this prayer seems to shed a little light on the definition and fuzzy edges of "lost" causes: quote:O most holy apostle, Saint Jude, faithful servant and friend of Jesus, the Church honoureth and invoketh thee universally, as the patron of hopeless cases, and of things almost despaired of. Pray for me, who am so miserable. Make use, I implore thee, of that particular privilege accorded to thee, to bring visible and speedy help where help was almost despaired of. Come to mine assistance in this great need, that I may receive the consolation and succor of Heaven in all my necessities, tribulations, and sufferings, particularly (here make your request) and that I may praise God with thee and all the elect throughout eternity. I promise thee, O blessed Jude, to be ever mindful of this great favour, to always honour thee as my special and powerful patron, and to gratefully encourage devotion to thee. Amen. (emphasis mine) Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Oct 28, 2016 |
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Oct 28, 2016 19:21
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System Metternich posted:Gray claims that the teleological rationalism of the New Atheism movement is now confronted with a resurgence of religion and religiously-motivated politics throughout the world. Looking at the Western world, this obviously rings false; What? That doesn't ring false at all. I can't speak for Europe or Latin America but US politics is intensely driven by religious concerns (and competing secular ones.) Keep in mind also that it might have more to do with visibility than actual demographics. The religious right as a voting bloc might be disintegrating, but that just makes them louder.
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Nov 1, 2016 22:01
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Mo Tzu posted:also fun fact; the guy who wrote trigun is catholic this is pretty much the least surprising thing ever though
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Nov 7, 2016 05:30
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pidan posted:Congrats HEGEL! Love your enemy doesn't preclude acknowledging that they're your enemy.
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Nov 9, 2016 19:49
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Mo Tzu posted:i don't personally see people who voted trump political opponents. i see them as threats to my health, safety, and my ability to thrive within the country i was born in. You're right, but I would argue that that's what a political opponent is. The American right wing's totalized understanding of faith, politics, and personal morality as a single arena isn't a blunder or a disease. They're right, and understanding this works to their benefit. They approach politics with a conviction that we should aspire to. I'm on board with the Christian notion of not hating other human beings and even having love for them, but sometimes loving someone means letting them know how angry and disappointed you are and, more importantly, not letting them destroy others and degrade themselves in the process. StashAugustine posted:They're not all fascists, just fellow travelers The fascists are your fellow travelers too. This is not a dichotomy. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 22:29
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Mo Tzu posted:also, the only good fascist continues to be a dead fascist. this is known I was raised by fascists. Barring the urge to lie or evade the question for fear of the consequences, I would have described myself as a National Socialist until I was about 20 years old. It is obviously not who I am today. But let's not even worry about my well-being for the moment; it's honestly kind of secondary. Would you be better off if I were dead, Mo Tzu?
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Nov 9, 2016 22:58
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StashAugustine posted:I think there is a distinction but agree that they're still responsible for what they did I wouldn't even worry about their responsibility. The state of their conscience (or their soul, if you want to think about it in those terms) is up to them. I don't say "hatred is unjustified when directed towards human beings" I say it's wasted, i.e. it's pointless from a utilitarian point of view. What matters is -- protecting the people they threaten, and removing their power to threaten in the first place. In the worst case scenario this could very well mean killing fascists. My question to Mo Tzu was not completely rhetorical. It's possible that my being dead would be such a powerful warning to others that it would outweigh any good I might do in what's left of my life, or that so few fascists reform that the outliers aren't worth considering. But do it out of overflowing love for the oppressed and anger at the condition of the world, because that will lead you to better ends than doing it out of spite. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 23:05
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Mo Tzu posted:don't try to make me take off the socialist mask and reveal I'm actually a liberal who would prefer no one die and instead awaken to compassion and work for people who are different from them Liberals don't have a monopoly on compassion, as much as they would like to pretend they do. Mo Tzu posted:like short term sure any time alt-right fuckheads gather grab masks and bats and beat them down but also try to encourage compassion in people who seem so closed off from it you'd have an easier time wringing blood from a stone We're on the same page, I think. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 23:18
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Mo Tzu posted:i don't disagree but i've gone from "i really should get around to updating my passport and birth certificate" to "if I don't update this before January I may not be able to update it for up to eight years" so right now I'm not looking for the silver lining in the trump voters Most people don't, although it's a close thing. Hillary won the popular vote. Democracy, in an dismally ironic twist, works.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:02
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the entire material world works on monkey's paw principles, dehumanize yourself and face to gnosticism
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Nov 10, 2016 01:20
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The Phlegmatist posted:e2: And also is the greater left just going to ignore the nascent movement within evangelical Christianity to do just that? The answer to your question is in the article. quote:Increasingly, that is what “evangelical” means to large numbers of Americans. With apologies to Tias, it's like trying to rehabilitate "skinhead." Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 19:54
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JcDent posted:I don't think I fully understood what you are saying. Could you please expand? My English might be failing me here. "INO" usually means "in name only." He's saying that their faith isn't real because he finds it distasteful. I also find it distasteful, but to get from there to it being fake seems awfully facile to me.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:35
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Maintaining your capacity for fury is healthy when your friends are dying and the thing that's killing them is trying to make itself the new normal.
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Nov 11, 2016 22:27
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| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 04:50 |
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KataMary DaMercy.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:45
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