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Writh
Dec 31, 2008

Big D's chillin' over here, wasteland style

ice cold horchata posted:

nevermind that Arrow killed black canary to have him hook up with a tv created character

Actually she's been in comics since the 80's. She was annoying then too.

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Writh
Dec 31, 2008

Big D's chillin' over here, wasteland style

WarLocke posted:

Prediction: Flashpoint being 'fixed' in the first episode is a trick. We are actually watching the real flashpoint right now, and it will continue until the big crossover, when it'll finally get 'fixed'.

Either that or Barry just goes on with the knowledge that he has irrevocably hosed up everyone else's lives.

Until using his super speed makes him forget that anything ever happened.

Writh
Dec 31, 2008

Big D's chillin' over here, wasteland style
I didn't see it posted here but does anyone else think Dr. Alchemy gave Caitlyn her ice powers. We come back from Flashpoint and apparently these husks have been popping up with no I.D.'s (I could be miss remembering) save for the Rival. If she were drawn to him by visions of a life as Killer Frost like the Rival was and granted her powers in the same way, then Caitlyn would also have to contend with the memories and personality of KF trying to emerge (based on how the Rival got his speed and immediately started trying to be a dick). I also excuse the secret because clearly she doesn't have full control of her powers and who honestly likes to admit when they aren't in control of themselves.

Writh
Dec 31, 2008

Big D's chillin' over here, wasteland style

MiddleOne posted:

Am I operating on a different plane of reality from the rest of you? The Killer Frost diatribe was the worst written villain turn I have ever seen. The episode basically went like this,

1. I'm normal Caitlyn but oh no I have too use my poooooweeeers I'll go craaaaaazy
2. I'm Killer Frost and I'm just going to murder this Alchemy henchmen and try to kill Julian now because craaaaaaazy
3. I'm Killer Frost but I can't kill precious Barry who I horrifyingly maimed and tried to freeze to death just 10 minutes ago because who knows
4. I'm now normal Caitlyn again after a stern talking to, everything is forgotten and my personality is back where it started! Motivations? Who needs 'em.

Clearly this was a nuanced, complex and completely logical character development that could not have been done in any better way. We even have a villain this season who's entire superpower is his ability to turn anyone into a villain regardless of their character motivation, so why would they go for this? I get it, they've been teasing her turn for forever and this is something that they've really wanted to do but why can't they even try to come up with actual reasons for things happening? Oh wait no, this is a procedural which means that any character not a guest-actor can't ever lose screen-time for any reason. Can't give anyone actual motivations because then that reset button wouldn't be so easy to hit at the end of the episode.

Ah forget it. What I hate about this show is that unlike Arrow (which has been garbage masked by ok action scenes all along) and Legends of Tomorrow (which is great now that it's fully self-aware) it actually seemed like a decent show at some point instead of the garbage we've been fed since the season 1 finale. This show is on my short list of shows, like Dexter and Under the Dome, that I follow solely to see just how deep the rabbit hole goes.

Didn't they mention that her powers were messing with her brain chemistry or am I miss remembering.

Writh
Dec 31, 2008

Big D's chillin' over here, wasteland style

LinkesAuge posted:

Which only makes it worse because now superpowers are some kind of sickness that make you crazy/evil? That's opening a can of worms.

I don't recall them saying that for anyone else and they have observed other metas. I think HER powers specifically come with the added bonus of it messing with her mind. While we may talk about how evil Barry is and how murder happy he is, in the context of the story all of his violent acts were justified by those around him showing he wasn't slipping into some kind of evil persona. Seems like an inordinate amount of douchebags got powers for the most part. A lot of pre-collider footage of folks showing them already being criminals or someone directly screwing them over or hammering them, causing them to go on a rampage once they have powers.

Basically her powers are kinda like that kid that got super strength but it was making him old. She gets ice powers and it makes her more and more mentally unstable.

Writh
Dec 31, 2008

Big D's chillin' over here, wasteland style

8one6 posted:

Post-Flashpoint do they still have Black Siren locked up in the no-lunch supermax?

My wife and I were talking about this the other day. I felt like logically Black Siren should have cease to exist once flashpoint was created and subsequently undone. Since she existed on earth2 which wasn't changed by Barry's time mockery prior to coming through the breach. So when time is reset she literally has no place on earth1 where she would have existed back when Barry's mom was killed, she has no start point to go back to on this side and since Earth2 is completely unaffected she can't reappear where she should have been there, so I guess she would just stop.

Time travel is a headache enough but throwing in parallel universes and their relation to time travel and I feel like my brain is melting trying to rationalize it.

However, knowing how the writers can be, I bet she is still in the pipeline. But if she is never mentioned again I am counting that as Flashpointed out of existence.

Writh
Dec 31, 2008

Big D's chillin' over here, wasteland style
Sorry if I am misunderstanding what I saw last night or am forgetting something that might have been plainly explained but I need some clarity if it can be reached at this point.

So Savitar is pissed at Barry for throwing him into the speedforce. So Barry and Jay decide, "let's throw the rock that is clearly Savitar into the speedforce to get rid of him." So is this another time that Barry has thrown him in the speedforce or is this actually the original time Barry throws him in the speedforce that got Savitar all pissed off. And if this is to be considered his original dumping of Savitar does that mean he ends up coming out of the speedforce in the ancient past to eventually have Draco find him?

Ok, time travel discussion headache setting in better wrap this up; so since Savitar is a transformer for some reason, already hates Barry and knows everything about everyone on team Flash does that mean rather than being the first person with super speed he is just some jackass from the future that Barry sent to the past? Has Barry achieved the perfection of an infinite time loop of loving everything up?

Writh
Dec 31, 2008

Big D's chillin' over here, wasteland style

lotus circle posted:

Or they could just keep the box in Star Labs? Lock it up and throw away the key. They know now what Savitar does after all.

Barry could locate an alternate earth where the planet is a dead husk with absolutely no life and speed phase the box into the side of a mountain and go home.

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Writh
Dec 31, 2008

Big D's chillin' over here, wasteland style

Mortanis posted:

When Rip Hunter showed up he said he'd seen Men of Steel die and Knight's fall. Batman and Superman eventually exist, though they could always spin it as alternate universe versions now that the multiverse is absurdly easy to travel through.

Sounds like Nate and Ray. I know Ray doesn't call himself "The Knight" but power armor heroes are pretty much the knights of comic books and I don't doubt when they go to Camelot next week that King Arthur will knight the armor clad hero (hell he's already been a Samurai).

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