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Squashing Machine posted:This obviously isn't the dying gasp, seeing as they won. Also, it's an easy out to lay the blame at the feet of initial-capped Group I Don't Like but if we want to win future elections we probably should think a little harder. Explain it then for us idiots. Right here, right now.
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Nov 9, 2016 08:42
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Squashing Machine posted:We'll listen to these groups and their concerns. We'll tell them that their fears and pain are valid and we have strategies to help them. We won't cast mean-spirited aspersions about these groups because it feels good and we think we don't need them. We will do this or we will die. I don't want to tell them that they're valid to think my friends and family are inhuman. Now what?
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Nov 9, 2016 09:05
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Nelson Mandingo posted:While I am extremely disappointed in the Trump win, I actually am sort of proud of America honestly. Establishment, markets, wallstreet, and all the other monied interests were rooting for a Clinton win. She outspent him 15 to 1. And that didn't happen. Keep telling yourself that
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Nov 9, 2016 10:51
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Nelson Mandingo posted:You know for someone who complains about racism you seem willing to engage in it. Wow this coming from someone who is ok with the result? Who would have guessed???????
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Nov 9, 2016 13:26
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HorseRenoir posted:The only real hope is that a reverse Obama effect happens and all the whites who showed up for Trump get mad that their lives still suck after 2 years of full GOP control and get disillusioned while Dems get fired up to vote, but Dems are at a huge structural disadvantage for 2018 so prolly not Being mad at those in charge seems to only apply to dems anymore so good luck with that 
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Nov 9, 2016 13:29
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Radish posted:I'm getting the feeling this outburst of ethnic slurs and "um just because I'm allied with the kkk how can you know I'm a racist??" is a small taste of the narrative the country is going to head down soon. But it's all about economic concerns don't ya know
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Nov 9, 2016 19:11
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steinrokkan posted:I'm "hinting" that it racism is one of ways in which frustration can manifest, and that Democrats are first incompetent that they can't use the same frustration to inspire a different, more constructive emotion, second that they refuse to delve into these supposedly forever tainted waters, thuse conceding the conservatives, who have no such reservations about interfering on ideologically hostile ground, more and more territory. In other words, that they are so afraid of getting their hands dirty that they would rather lose everything. It kinda is
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Nov 9, 2016 19:32
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steinrokkan posted:Begin by reforming your own party with new talent, capable of establishing some credibility for themselves. Then you'll have the same structural advantage as they. The GOP machine is well oiled, but the Democratic has been objectively lackluster, and as long as this state of affairs is allowed to persist, there can be only minimal inroads into the GOP territory. The Democratic party needs to find a common energy to start proselytizing en masse, not rely on individuals to try and do the politicians' jobs for them. Unfortunately Clinton was emblematic of the ivory tower attitude of not engaging with people she found beneath her. Meanwhile the GOP side has so much organized energy, used for wrong purposes. The common energy is racism in america
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Nov 9, 2016 19:36
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steinrokkan posted:The common energy is hatred. It's up to politicians to channel it towards some particular object. That sure doesn't sound like the inherent goodness of people you were talking about earlier
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Nov 9, 2016 19:48
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Squashing Machine posted:Then we're lost. Absolve yourself of all responsibility, there's no point in trying to change minds because there are no minds to change. No you get accused of being elitist for daring to use facts to back up your argument
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Nov 9, 2016 19:50
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steinrokkan posted:Hatred is simply a state of elevated dissatisfaction over an imperfection in things. Too bad it is far far far easier to aim it at illusions to such an unreasonable degree
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Nov 9, 2016 19:51
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gently caress this terrible racist rear end country
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Nov 10, 2016 05:35
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Convergence posted:This is bullshit. Many are racist. Most are not, or at least that's not the main concern. She failed to communicate this message to them in a way that resonated. They didn't trust her. She called them deplorable racists even though most of them are just misinformed and jobless. The democrats will lose again and again unless they get rid of this nonsense that everything republican = racists Sorry you don't like the loving truth
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Nov 10, 2016 05:45
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Convergence posted:You can think what you want, but the bottom line is that democrats will continue to lose unless they reach these people and bring them into the fold. You have no choice but to work with them and at least have some compassion for the fact that massive swaths of industrial towns are gone. It's possible to care about both poor white people and poor minorities. gently caress them and gently caress you
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Nov 10, 2016 06:05
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Convergence posted:You can think what you want, but the bottom line is that democrats will continue to lose unless they reach these people and bring them into the fold. You have no choice but to work with them and at least have some compassion for the fact that massive swaths of industrial towns are gone. It's possible to care about both poor white people and poor minorities. these racist assholes ain't ever showed any compassion for minorities so i'll not do the same to them
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Nov 10, 2016 06:06
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Convergence posted:You can think what you want, but the bottom line is that democrats will continue to lose unless they reach these people and bring them into the fold. You have no choice but to work with them and at least have some compassion for the fact that massive swaths of industrial towns are gone. It's possible to care about both poor white people and poor minorities. THEY drew the loving line. THEY supported racism. THEY do not deserve compassion for this act
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Nov 10, 2016 06:07
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Even Glenn Beck is for BLM now. Don't be so quick to turn your back on them. they're sure quick to turn their backs on minorities so gently caress off
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Nov 10, 2016 06:07
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Convergence posted:Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you (or anyone) doesn't in some sense care about poor white people. But we basically have to look at their viewpoint- they see their communities falling apart. Drug use rampant. Massive suicide rates. No prospects at all for locals, and absolutely no path to being able to afford the skyrocketing costs of housing in the city. And what do they get from the media? Everyone screaming about white privilege. A narrative telling them that they have every possible advantage because they're white; they have no reason to complain. Naturally they're going to reject this with every fiber of their being, because there is absolutely no objective reason for them to feel privileged in their day to day life experience. Post examples of the media screaming about white privilege
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Nov 10, 2016 06:09
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"screaming about white privilege was everywhere in the media" - a fucker completely disconnected from reality
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Nov 10, 2016 06:10
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Convergence posted:I admit that I don't have a solution for you right at this moment. I just hope to convince a few people that this is more complicated than "half the country is racist", because we have to at least understand the problem first. So you have absolutely nothing and are talking from your rear end in an attempt to excuse racism
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Nov 10, 2016 06:19
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Convergence posted:I would be delighted if you offered something of substance yourself! You first.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:20
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can we at least all agree that all these democrats giving into trump and talking about putting aside their differences need to be voted out? Because gently caress them and their spinelessness
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Nov 10, 2016 06:38
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Kilroy posted:No, that is national unity stuff and it's good they're doing it especially now. They're not - at least, some of them are not - doing that as a play to siphon off some GOP votes next election. They are doing it for the sake of pretending we still have a functioning government. Like, a smooth and peaceful transition of power to Donald Trump is better for the country than, I don't know, half the Congressional Democrats just not showing up to work or something. Look, we both know how this is going down
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Nov 10, 2016 06:48
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Sir Tonk posted:I don't agree, I think they should attempt to maintain the procedural high ground until Trump does something loving insane. So about the third week of January or so. The press may not reward them, but I'm also not sure how the media will adapt after all of this either (they probably won't adapt and will pretend that Trump just another normal candidate). Who cares about the press after this election? No matter who runs, they'll try to paint you as just as bad. What actually is just as bad is giving up quickly and telling Trump to lead away
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Nov 10, 2016 06:55
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Like a lot of the 'economic concerns/bernie was right' crowd are correct we need politicians who we can trust and believe in You can't be that if you say you'll work with Trump
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Nov 10, 2016 06:59
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Trabisnikof posted:So Sanders is out, Warren is out. Who is left after the purges? There is nobody because they'll all be like loving JEB
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Nov 10, 2016 07:02
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Kilroy posted:Do we? Progressives were already ascendant in the party before this election and the perception, right or wrong, is that establishment Dems hosed them out of the nomination and that they would have won if they'd gotten their guy in. I think progressives will ultimately come out of this energized, and the DLC crew will come out of this totally discredited. It remains to be seen how that sorts itself out - we'll see how the Democratic primaries in 2018 go, and I suspect we'll start seeing the shake-ups very early next year. I have no idea how you can be optimistic anymore. Kudos to you
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Nov 10, 2016 07:10
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Trabisnikof posted:Without an actual ideology progressive will continue to eat their own like the people in this thread declaring Warren purgable due to her willingness to "work with Trump" Maybe she should've stuck up for those she claimed to represent during the election
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Nov 10, 2016 07:13
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Sir Tonk posted:Society functions because people believe that it should exist. The Congressional Dems are doing what they can to maintain that reality. As much as we'd love for them to do what McConnell did to Obama a few years ago, it wouldn't be good for the country. Trump is President-Elect ffs
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Nov 10, 2016 07:14
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Trabisnikof posted:Maybe she is by doing her job as a Senator and not taking her ball and going home because we lost. The media will crucify them no matter what as this election loving showed
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Nov 10, 2016 07:16
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Trabisnikof posted:And I'd rather them get crucified for a real reason rather than for some meaningless stand. The result will be the same: President Trump
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Nov 10, 2016 07:17
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https://twitter.com/CatherineForNV/status/796262803082350592 That is uplifting, not "I will work with Trump"
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Nov 10, 2016 07:18
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Trabisnikof posted:Right? Everyone issues the boring "yes if the people who hate me magically agree with me I will work with them" and goons see them as traitors to the cause. nice try but nope also i'm one poster you dipshit
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Nov 10, 2016 07:25
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steinrokkan posted:After decades of the right fringe making GBS threads their pants over the UN, over THE DEBT, over Agenda 21 and other conspiracies to weaken America and steal money from its citizens, Trump came and started pummeling the "globalists", whatever that means, for putting America on second track, he called out the 1% for not caring about the working man and abusing the tax code, he made some "common sense" proclamations about the debt and how America can't be in somebody else's pocket, how there need to be better deals so America isn't giving away its wealth in exchange for nothing, he pummeled past leadership on being too weak in dealing with China and on allowing the NAFTA to hurt American manufacturers, or on hurting American interests and finances by trying to be a world cop, he complained about the weakness of American military strategy... Hell, he even took credit for American companies moving some factories from Mexico back to the US, and said he would convince more to return! The willingness and depth you go to downplay and excuse racism is disgusting.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:04
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steinrokkan posted:Sorry, I'm not going to put a one sentence blanket judgement over 60 million people and pretend I'm done with election analysis. It's quite nice that only a certain section of people with a certain physical characteristic gets that from you
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Nov 10, 2016 19:11
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steinrokkan posted:gently caress off, post one example of anything racist I posted in any of the many election threads, you rear end in a top hat. All the posts you've made trying to absolve white people for voting for Trump you piece of poo poo. I will not support a Democratic Party with fuckers like you in charge
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Nov 10, 2016 19:14
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Sharkopath posted:Economics and courting white voters is all that matters now, We're no longer needed and our issues aren't wanted I guess. It's a real shame that instead of coming together to reassure minorities and poc we will instead argue the need to overlook racism
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Nov 10, 2016 19:21
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steinrokkan posted:Yes, but liberals itt are afraid that giving people a positive incentive not to act as bigots would somehow made them compromise their values? Yeah no we know all about your loving values
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Nov 10, 2016 19:24
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Deified Data posted:I agree. I had come to terms with voting for Clinton but I see no reason to apologize for her failings at this juncture. It was her election to lose and she deftly snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. People not ok with racism: disposable
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Nov 10, 2016 19:26
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Squashing Machine posted:This is the problem of Lessail's version of purity politics though. Saying "we needed to offer the white voters who went with Obama in the previous elections an incentive to come out for Hillary" is not the same as saying "we need to make nice with racists." But, in his mind, these people are racists all the way down and any attempt to court them is tantamount to throwing PoC under the bus. It's nonsense, and it's useless for building a strategy to win future elections. No there needs to be continual and intense push back against the idea so that the party can't easily decide to slip up
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Nov 10, 2016 19:38
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