uspol november: as it turns out they could not stump the trump

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > uspol november: as it turns out they could not stump the trump

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cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Quorum posted:

Obama is a loving saint and we didn't deserve him.

Oh man, has this already begun? Obama was a lock step pro corporate centrist who squandered a unified Democratic government to protect the Wall Street elites who fund the DNC. He was charismatic and made you feel good, but his legacy will end up being 8 years of distraction as the American worker suffered (just as they had suffered under Bush and Clinton before him).

# ¿ Nov 11, 2016 22:34

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 18:31

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

paranoid randroid posted:

well that's not ideal either. if only there was a middle ground between beltway flaks and ideologues all too willing to piss on core allied constituencies for the crime of "being establishment"

Where is the pissing on allied constituencies?

# ¿ Nov 11, 2016 22:53

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Majorian posted:

It helps, unfortunately, that places like Kentucky and West Virginia have as many Senators as California and New York, and subtantially more electoral votes per capita.

e: I did some quick math and WV has something like 20 times the per capita electoral votes as CA, which is...pretty loving galling.

What the sweet gently caress are you talking about? West Virginia has 1.85m people and 5 electoral votes, or one for every 370k votes. California has 38.8m people and 55 electoral votes, or one for every 705k people. They have almost double CA's per capita electoral votes (not 20 times), but then again, Texas has basically the same ratio with one electoral vote for every 709k people (and it is a red state).

The smallest states, because they receive 3 electoral votes (one of each of their senators and one for their house member) have the highest ratio, which levels off towards the 1 to 700k ratio as states get bigger.

# ¿ Nov 12, 2016 03:07

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Xae posted:

Guess what the Republicans, Health Insurers, Drug Company, Hospitals, Device Makers and the AMA are going to be running adds 24/7 calling it?

Democrats are not going to be able to out-market a 3 trillion dollar segment of the economy.

Well not with that attitude we won't! There is zero reason to cede all of that territory to the right.

# ¿ Nov 12, 2016 05:00

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Pollyanna posted:

Also literally none of this theorycrafting about how Trump will gently caress up his presidency because the 99% chance is that he will delegate his way through it and let Pence run the show. The only way that he will actually take the presidency seriously enough to set it on fire is if someone riles him up enough to do so through calling him a pussy or something.

Step one in getting a Democratic party sweep in 2018 is to troll Trump's twitter account.

# ¿ Nov 12, 2016 05:06

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Ginette Reno posted:

Identity politics suck rear end and is why Bernie would have been good. Hopefully he's not dead in four years, or someone else like him can run.

e: Which is not to say I think they're meaningless but class issues are what really need to be addressed and Obama did none of that. Neoliberalism...gently caress it

Mmmmm I'm going to choose to assume that your heart is in the right place, but dismissing the specific oppressions that people who are not straight white males like us (going out on a limb here that you are a straight white male) is not the way forward. We need a populist message that addresses the economic concerns of ALL workers, but not at the expense of tossing aside vulnerable members of society.

# ¿ Nov 12, 2016 07:34

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Nelson Mandingo posted:

Of course you'd cooperate with the president-elect. The peaceful transition of power is the point. You think they won't oppose him when he gets in office? Get real.

I was just about to reply to that comment. There is no reason to not say that you will give it a shot and then immediately declare yourself in opposition when he does insane thing on day 3.

Stereotype posted:

Bagram Airfield was just suicide bombed, killing American service members.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nbcnews.com/news/world/amp/suicide-bomber-attacks-bagram-airfield-afghanistan-n682866

Wow the base has retinal scans? Is that really a thing?

# ¿ Nov 12, 2016 07:58

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

UV_Catastrophe posted:

In my view, democrats do not need to reinvent the wheel or switch to being the party of Full Communism Now (although going a bit further left wouldn't hurt - blue dog democrats giving us stuff like the ACA over something more bold loving hurt us, imo), nor do they need to hush up about minority issues one bit. They just need to improve on 1) Communicating the merits of the party platform to white working class people, and 2) Building and maintaining trustworthiness and credibility concerning economic issues.

Obama had this stuff down pat. Build relations with working class whites like Obama did. That's it.

The problem is that there really are no merits of the party platform for white working people. Hell, one of the few issues that the majority of working class people of all colors could agree on was that health care is really expensive and the insurance system loving sucks, and the Obama led democrats bunted when they could have swung for the fences. The entire point of all of this is that the Democratic party has spent the last few decades taking boatloads of corporate money and sticking as closely as possible to the left most edge of the GOP (aka the center) while maintaining the economic status quo. Your Penn neighbors know Republican billionaire elites don't give a poo poo about them, and they have spent the last 20 years learning that the Democrat elites don't either so gently caress it, lets elect someone who is neither.

# ¿ Nov 12, 2016 18:42

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

a foolish pianist posted:

ghostbusters was actually p good, if kinda forgettable.

I mean, making white male privilege the villain was certainly a bold move, although maybe that was the villain in the original as well? Looking at you Stay Puft!

fits my needs posted:

Wow, it does sound nice to be able to create all these changes with tools that don't even exist! Nice to know you need to coddle the fragile egos of shell-shocked white people realizing they will be minorities in a couple of decades from burning everything to the ground and loving everyone else.

Your bold plan of telling every white male without a college degree to sit on it and rotate is pretty solid. I mean, that is the blueprint that created President Hillary

cheese fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Nov 12, 2016

# ¿ Nov 12, 2016 18:54

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Pollyanna posted:

Has the general public actually started to learn about how hosed up the Dems are and what we need to do to make things better for both workers and minorities, or are we just all in another echo chamber? Is anything we're saying getting through?

I think the general public is still in a state of shock.

fits my needs posted:

I don't support any of that poo poo. The protests going on now are loving stupid and pointless and will do as much as OWS and protests against the second Iraq War. gently caress Trump, and gently caress all the white people that voted for him. Things will get a lot worse as minority communities will be radicalized due to white people taking their time being about voting a man who wants to ban all Muslims and a build a wall against Mexico. A guy who will be president of the US in 2 months.

The protests going on are only stupid if people vent their anger through them and then go back to catching pokemon for the next 2 years.

# ¿ Nov 12, 2016 18:59

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Pollyanna posted:

So we're hosed, then? Because we've got the attention spans of goldfish.

Only if Trump hands the keys over to Mike Pence who quietly starts dismantling everything we know and love about this country. As long as Trump stays the villain and people can coalesce around defeating him we have hope.

# ¿ Nov 12, 2016 19:03

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

https://twitter.com/marcportermagee/status/797462124788379648

lol we're hosed

We still have 48-49 Senators depending on how that runoff goes. Not really a thing.

# ¿ Nov 12, 2016 19:05

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Lightning Knight posted:

Ok I hit the anger/acceptance stage at work. Here is my big huge pointless effort post no one will read.

8. It's time to abandon the middle class. We bought into the Republican framing of "a strong middle class," but the truth is that this is a huge dogwhistle for white suburbanites. I bet enough of us are white suburbanites to know that they vote straight R anyway regardless of how much we pander, because they care more about tax cuts than people's lives. We need working class people, not lovely FYGM suburbanites.

So after abandoning the working class in favor of trying to appease the middle class and getting utterly destroyed in almost every metric for the last 8 years, your new plan is to abandon the middle middle class to appease the working class? There is a difference between acknowledging that you just arn't going to win some suburban white voters and saying "gently caress it" to the whole middle class. Those white working class voters that went for Trump are like working class voters all over this country in one key way. They don't dream of someday having a better working class life - they dream of making it to the middle class.

If you write off the entire middle class you are making a huge mistake. Those white suburbanites have so much more in common with "the workers" and if we fail to focus on that unity as a message, then this whole project is doomed.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2016 08:23

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Lightning Knight posted:

There are a whole lot more working class and poor people than middle class people at this point. Also we didn't abandon working white people, they abandoned us for Reagan. We didn't bother trying to recapture them, which isn't much better, but that distinction is important because we didn't choose to be massive gently caress ups with a weird base, the Republicans scooped our base out from under us.

Also I personally think that the middle class people who vote for us will continue to vote for us because they tend to be motivated more by identity politics than economics. The majority of middle class white suburbanites vote Republican nowadays. The median income in America is, what, 60k? That's who we should be focusing on, because wealth inequality is so bad that the median income is approaching poor working class.

Ya, fair enough. I mean if you are a white suburbanite and you were not one of the 70m Americans who voted for Obama in 2008 (I managed to convince my NASCAR watching, bow hunting uncle in suburban Davenport Iowa to vote Obama in 2008 and I've seen pictures of him on facebook wearing a MAGA hat, although he won't say if he went Trump yet ), there is probably not much of a chance to reach you. Still, don't discount the power of the much maligned American Dream. It is what gets a lot of the working class people we need up in morning.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2016 18:55

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/797814076453879809

Pack it in folks, they are definitely the same people and there is no point in even trying this progressive poo poo. The Libya intervention - truly the purity test going forward.

Real talk though, getting sworn in on Thomas Jefferson's Quran is probably the most bad rear end thing ever.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2016 19:34

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

boner confessor posted:

a robust social safety net, subsidized education and job training, and increased union participation

being an alien who just came to earth last week and started following local politics, i can see how you may not have heard these proposals before

Job training for what? Are 5 million pipe fitters and machinists going to become CS engineers?

# ¿ Nov 13, 2016 19:46

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

At some point we will have to come to grips with the reality that we are automating, outsourcing and making redundant jobs at a rate faster than we can create them and having a social structure where the quality of your full time job is a direct indicator of your societal worth is no longer a sustainable system. I suppose that as long as there are poor brown people around the world, then there is a hope of maintaining our western standard of living, but it can't go on forever. Perhaps that is a problem for our grandchildren to solve.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 00:26

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

My Linux Rig posted:

If the future is automation, then I'm glad I have an it job

Uhhhhh....*cough*...well this is awkward...

thechosenone posted:

Since I don't do much anyway, is it alright if I just stay in the Denial Phase? I was having a bad time before that, and I don't have the time to do anything, nor can I even move myself to any where to act out against this. As for everyone else, I don't mind if you guys fight. The current battle is for control over what Trump is gonna do. If we can pressure him now, we can moderate his negative potential, which will hopefully leave only his positive potential.

If we spook him and the GOP right, we can get those crazies out, and someone else in.

This is completely untrue. Everyone can do something.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 01:37

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Combed Thunderclap posted:

My pet theory is that Trump regards Kushner as a younger version of himself he can live vicariously through/trust, and it's really gross to watch. I literally can't think of another reason why Trump trusts this random guy so much other than he's a loyal, Jewish carbon copy of Trump.

The political gossip mill's been very quiet regarding Kellyanne Conway, who seems to be literally the only publicly political woman in Trump's immediate orbit these days. (Ivanka whispers in his ear but seems to be mostly busy trying to peddle her random poo poo.) Any guesses re: her role in the administration, if at all? She might decide to take the money in run but I doubt it.

Since Trump's views on women are firmly medieval, then I can only imagine he sees himself as some 16th century Duke whose biological sons are pampered dandies unfit to rule, forced to marry his beautiful daughter off to a son-figure worthy of succeeding him on the throne.

Also, I can't believe Sessions would ever use the justice department to carryout his crusade against weed. It would be the most hilarious hill for them to die on. Legalized marijuana support is at an all time high, even among Republicans.

# ¿ Nov 19, 2016 18:15

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

speng31b posted:

Uhh, yeah, this isn't a hill it's possible to die on yet. Sure support is high, but defending it too loudly still makes you "that weed politician."

From a Justice Department perspective, I assume Sessions would go after states (like CA and Mass) that have passed state laws that are in direct conflict with Federal regulations. The success of recreational bills this election will almost certainly lead to more states attempting this in the next election cycle. Fighting tooth and nail to stop this would absolutely be a huge waste of their time and energy.

# ¿ Nov 19, 2016 18:43

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

eighty-four merc posted:

Not sure if this is the right thread for this question, but is NPI legitimately a "white nationalist" organization as I am seeing reported, or is that just more sensationalist clickbait bullshit? Or is the truth somewhere in the middle?

I only ask because I have an acquaintance from high school who has been for years a lovely libertarian blogger. He is attending the NPI conference in DC right now. His politics suck but libetarianism to nationalism is a pretty big ideological leap.

They released a report called "The State of White America", so yes.

Edit: Libertarianism is basically "I'm white and therefore privileged, and need to create reasons in my head why that is ok and not something to feel guilty about" so its basically just a hop, skip and a jump to full on master race poo poo.

cheese fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Nov 20, 2016

# ¿ Nov 20, 2016 22:03

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Lightning Knight posted:

The possibility of nuclear war, which is unlikely imo, should be less terrifying than the certainty of crippling global warming and sea level rising.

I mean, its not like we were taking bold, earth changing strides to stop global warming under Obama. We are in a car sliding on an iced out road towards a cliff at 70 mph and at best, we took our foot mostly off the gas over the last 8 years. Trump is going to put his foot back down on the gas, but we were going over that cliff either way. I'm not trying to sound fatalistic/accelerationist here but I have not see a single thing over the last few years to suggest that anything done under Obama was going to reverse or even massively slow the rate of climate change.

# ¿ Nov 21, 2016 00:02

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Fuligin posted:

Why do people hate Michelle Rhee? Honest question, I left DC right about the time she became chancellor and I missed out on whatever controversy there was

Lets see, she lied about her own personal success as an educator, possibly cheated to improve her schools test scores, provided a public face for the privatization of public education through charter schools and school vouchers (appearing on Waiting for Superman) and is deeply tied into the Teach for America program, which presumes that teaching kids is the same as digging wells in Africa and sends barely trained law school bound college grads into the most needy schools in America so they can pad their resume. poo poo bag.

# ¿ Nov 23, 2016 06:03

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

My Linux Rig posted:

How was manifest destiny racist?

How was 'It is the holy destiny of the uniquely good and civilized people of the USA (white people) to spread forth across this pristine, untouched land (native american's don't count)' racist?

# ¿ Nov 26, 2016 19:26

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Rexicon1 posted:

Sometimes I worry you tankies are as bad as the loving alt-right sometimes.

"America did a lovely thing therefore it is impossible as a citizen to think any injustice perpetrated by a dictator is perhaps not good."

Fidel was a lovely dictator who did evil things and denied his people free elections. Also, all things that America or its empowered allies have also done. Lets see if everyone reacts the same when that old poo poo bag Kissinger finally gives up the ghost.

# ¿ Nov 27, 2016 00:59

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Again to be clear, Fidel did terrible things that cannot be defended, but anyone who acts as though his crimes (and the crimes of communism in Cuba) are somehow beyond the pale when we actively and aggressively support a number of regimes around the world who do worse, in addition to our own numerous crimes as a nation, are delusional.

# ¿ Nov 27, 2016 01:19

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Zeeman posted:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/802972944532209664

This can't be real.

# ¿ Nov 27, 2016 22:17

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Fame Douglas posted:

Requiring some form of ID doesn't seem like the most onerous of requirements.

It doesn't sound like an onerous requirement to you, because you probably have a car, are not living below the poverty line and don't live an hour away from the nearest DMV office which is open once a week on Tuesdays from 8-10am.

# ¿ Nov 27, 2016 22:29

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Peven Stan posted:

White supremacists are obsessed with asian women. Any law like that would restrict a white man's freedom to choose

Hyper sexual AND submissive, just like in my animes? What is not to like!?

cravius posted:

Yeah that's one implication you can draw I guess. But that's a lot different from "explicitly limiting the ability of black people to vote." Cause that didn't happen.

Ya'll are gettin trolled by a real low effort post sequence. The ruling court used unprecedentedly explicit language to call out the law for their barely veiled targeting of racial minorities, citing the voting demographics data that the legislative committees requested before drawing up the "disenfranchise as many blacks as possible" measure. To even debate it as "well it doesn't SAY 'black people' anywhere in it, so how do you know its racist?" poo poo is futile.

# ¿ Nov 28, 2016 04:05

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

cravius posted:

Again, what's your definition of a mass shooting. Cause if it's the commonly accepted 3 or more, it's not a majority of white dudes

I would imagine the key difference is shootings where the goal is just to hurt and kill people as many people as possible (with maybe a vague idea of a target) and a shooting where you are trying to kill specific people. If you go to school or work to try to rack up a body count and punish the people there, that's a mass shooting. When you go over to your lovers house or drive by the house of the drug dealer who stole your territory with the intent to harm those people, that is just plain, good old fashioned murder.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2016 01:10

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

cravius posted:

Is one really any different than the other

Is trying to lash out at society by shooting as many people as you can at your school, with no regard for whether they have personally harmed you or not, any different than pulling out a gun in a bar fight and shooting that one person only?

# ¿ Nov 29, 2016 01:14

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Black Baby Goku posted:

Is shooting one person the same as shooting 3 or more? Or is it different?

I mean, its a different number? Is driving drunk and killing 1 person in another car different than killing 3? Or is it a different issue than killing people in a car crash because you were texting?

cravius posted:

Ask that question to the countless innocents killed in driveby shootings, robberies gone wrong, ect.

You're right, someone shooting as many anonymous children as they can until law enforcement arrives and kills them is the same thing as a gang related drive by where a stray bullet kills a neighbor. Just gun violence, amirite? loving hell, I guess I fell for it by even engaging.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2016 01:17

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Domestic Amuse posted:

So the real problem is that the left is unfairly attacking the white working class folks over in flyover country and elsewhere, calling them bigots and racists when they really should sit down, listen to their grievances, understand precisely why they voted for Trump in the first place and then work to accommodate those folks, hopefully bringing them into the fold with a blue collar-friendly platform instead of the pompous, erudite college elite liberal stuff that's been the DNC's stock and trade for the past couple of decades.

I wouldn't have any problem with this if it didn't mean:

1) Coddling the fragile egos of white people who react poorly to any action that doesn't reaffirm their primacy in the greater socioeconomic scope of things (see "anti-white," "white genocide," etc).
2) Abandoning LGBT and POC in order to facilitate 1).

If I were to promote a platform of economic populism, with the idea that all people are deserving of equal rights and security of basic material comfort at its center, what specific policies or positions would be at odds with a platform of identity politics?

# ¿ Nov 29, 2016 01:46

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Lightning Knight posted:

The argument isn't that the platform is the problem. The argument is that historically white leftists have run on economic populism and then when in power made that populism For White People Only.

See: the New Deal, the GI Bill, etc.

It's an issue of representation and implementation, more so than a grievance with class politics as a concept.

Ok so lets do that then.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2016 01:59

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

If you want economic populist programs put into place by a future administration, you need the president to believe in economic populism. The whole point of it is that Obama, while checking a lot of demographic boxes and being very charming and charismatic, was not an economic populist.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2016 02:28

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Lightning Knight posted:

I mean, I would argue that it was because they chose race over class, which is a whole other issue nobody on the left wants to talk about because the idea that people could consistently chose race over class is terrifying.

They didn't choose race over class, because class was not even an option.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2016 03:23

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Lightning Knight posted:

I see that this argument is going to keep happening in circles for the rest of time where we pretend like the Southern Strategy and backlash against desegregation never happened and that race politics aren't distinct from class politics in America.

Class politics were not an issue in this election because both candidates are members of the 1% and have their interests at heart.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2016 03:25

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

FactsAreUseless posted:

Barack Obama also moved notably rightward after his election, and when I say that I mean that rather than surround himself with the people he was expected to, such as the many young liberals on his campaign team, his White House consisted of a lot of party faithful and old members of the Clinton White House, in much the same way that W. Bush had a lot of members of the first Bush and Reagan administrations on his team.

Barrack Obama didn't really run on an economic populist message. Certainly not one anywhere near as explicit as Sanders. Go back and read his 2004 DNC speech or any of his major campaign speeches in 08. Its all about vague opportunity and this nebulous American Dream that is always just over the next hill. Its was always all feels.

Kilroy posted:

A surprisingly large number of people have managed to convince themselves that Donald J "loving" Trump is actually the candidate of the working class. They're of course wrong, but we're talking about perception here not fact.

This is absolutely true. Trump was always less specific about his economic populism than Hillary, but the things he promised were so much bigger than Hillaries incrementalist roots would allow her.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2016 03:31

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Sephyr posted:

He did dial it up a bit in the 2008 election, though, since the financial crisis was in full swing and people were sick unto death of Bush. Stuff like closing Guantanamo, pushing for single-payer. But yeah, mostly he left it vague and relied on people to fill in the blanks with their own expectations.

If he meant to pursue those things seriously but was stifled by GOP resistance or was just making pleasant noises before appointing his full-on establishment cabinet, that is left to each person's discretion.

I think you will find that he was clearly a hard left progressive based on all of the times he went to bat for truly progressive policy positions such as

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

I don't know what this means.

It means if you are poor then go gently caress yourself.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2016 03:41

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 18:31

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

I will be curious to see if they really do try to touch the pre-existing condition coverage. That was one of the really popular aspects of the ACA and if Democrats have half a brain, they will spend some real money on decent ads blasting them for it.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2016 03:49

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > uspol november: as it turns out they could not stump the trump

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