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Thoguh posted:We haven't really touched on this yet in the thread - but her campaign spent a lot of time highlighting all these republican figures that were going to be voting for her instead of Trump in an attempt to sway moderate republicans to vote for her. But at the end of the day those republicans went ahead and held their nose and voted for Trump. It also likely further galvanized conservatives who were already bitter at the establishment GOP. They may hate Obama and Hillary, but they also hate the establishment GOP for even allowing Obama to accomplish anything. If you link the two, it's just extra motivation to get to the poll.
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Nov 15, 2016 16:34
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punk rebel ecks posted:Triangulation does not work and hopefully is dead after this disastrous election. The problem isn't triangulation, it's having an actual loving candidate. Quoting myself from somewhere else: quote:Eisenhower vs Stevenson, Kennedy vs Nixon, LBJ vs Goldwater, Nixon vs McGovern, Carter vs Ford, Reagan vs Carter, Clinton vs Bush, Bush vs Cheney, Obama vs McCain, Obama vs Romney, Trump vs Clinton. Probably further back than that, honestly, but I haven't taken the time to dig into it as much as I would like. The only race I can't frame in this is Bush Sr vs Dukakis, which is basically "I'm going to continue Reagan's legacy, you all liked Reagan" vs "I'm in a tank". Every single time, the winning candidate had a better grasp of appealing to the emotion of the electorate regardless of their actual policies or ability to achieve them. Bill absolutely triangulated, but he has charisma and ran on a message. "It's the economy, stupid" worked really well against a guy who had to walk back on the "No new taxes" pledge even if Perot played spoiler. Hillary ran as simply not being Trump and hoping the massive unfavorability of Trump would buoy her. It might have, if she had given anyone a reason to vote for her besides "I'm not Donald Trump".
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Nov 15, 2016 16:41
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Abrasive Obelisk posted:What about Reagan/Mondale and Nixon/McGovern? What about those? I mentioned Nixon/McGovern. Reagan/Mondale and Nixon/Humphrey were so forgettable in my mind that I didn't even mention it. Nixon won against Humphrey as the law and order candidate while pointing to Vietnam as a debacle. He won against McGovern by a combination of the DNC being fractured and painting McGovern as too extreme for middle America. If Reagan's margin of victory against Mondale isn't proof enough that sounding folksy and taking advantage of good feelings works, I don't know what to say.
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Nov 15, 2016 17:14
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:If by offset you mean "win elections in spite of", then yes. If you mean "reach crazy people" then no. Democrats lose by putting up candidates that suck and run against their opponent rather than for something. This isn't to say that the power of the conservative media apparatus should be discounted. Talk radio, Breitbart, etc, all distort actual media and reporting. When Facebook can't properly filter out right-wing bullshit from actual news because conservatives start screaming that the big evil liberal media is trying to silence their right to vomit bullshit everywhere, there's a problem. The media isn't entirely blameless in this -- they're the ones who gave Trump all the free advertising he could have ever wanted because it was good ratings and money. Yes, the hardcore right-wing lives in a reality-proof bubble where facts have no sway. The issue isn't in reaching them because they're not going to vote for Democrats. The issue is in preventing their bullshit from infecting the information that the rest of the country gets.
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Nov 15, 2016 19:10
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Tatum Girlparts posted:lol if anyone actually tries to push 'no no we need BIDEN and guys like him'. Like, that would just straight up be an admission that the only issue they had with Clinton was gender based then. It's not about gender, it's about authenticity in connecting to people. Biden has it, Hillary doesn't. Biden's authentic as gently caress, comparatively broke as gently caress for a politician, and doesn't give off the robotic controlled air that Hillary does, even if he's more centrist than both Clintons combined. Biden tears up talking about his son, gets visibly angry talking about the troops he's visited who got blown up, calls things a big loving deal. Hillary would never do that, and I realize that Hillary wanted to moderate herself to avoid the crazy woman card. Seriously, more genuine "Hillary talking about going to space, freaking out at balloons and brushing her shoulder during a bullshit Congressional hearing", less focus tested "dangerous Donald" bullshit and paling around with celebrities. Given the choice between Trump and the most centrist that ever centered a center, it would still be a win for Democrats because it's not Trump.
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Nov 15, 2016 19:28
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Nonsense posted:His son died, and all that went out the window because he was a literal wreck. Understandably. Biden's been through far more poo poo than anyone else in Washington, and he's still an optimistic hopeful guy at the end of it. I want him to go out, help people, and do sick burnouts without the weight of the world on his shoulders because if anyone's earned it, he has. I'm just saying that saying that Biden could have won against Trump is not a misogynistic attack on Hillary.
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Nov 15, 2016 19:34
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loquacius posted:I don't like Biden on the issues, but I think he would have had a better shot at winning the general because he (a) came off as a human being and (b) didn't have the exact perfect baggage for Donald Trump to exploit like Hillary did Also, you see, he is a man and misogyny would not be a factor, which was the main reason Hillary lost.
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Nov 15, 2016 20:02
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:what if the dem leadership is embracing progressives so they can blame them for a bad election in 2018 and purge them again? Im just having a hard time accepting all these ancient neoliberal third way shits who have dominated the party for a generation are just surrendering this easily to a takeover by the progressive wing well, they can't blame vince foster any more...
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Nov 16, 2016 03:01
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The Oldest Man posted:"Senate Democrats’ Surprising Strategy: Trying to Align With Trump" Why the hell not. Play parliamentary games on anything the Republicans actually want, work with Trump on the populist poo poo he promised. At best, you get some populist nonsense pushed through and alienate Trump from the GOP. At worst, the Republicans nuclear option and ram everything they want through anyway so who the gently caress cares might as well dodge some of the "WAH WAH DEMOCRATS ARE BEING MEAN AND NOT LETTING US DO ANYTHING" Republican screams.
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Nov 17, 2016 03:14
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docbeard posted:She made a point of talking about policy in the debates, too, but it was all ultimately in venues that only the people who were already kind of tuned in were likely to see. The policy was just to contrast herself and Trump and make her seem like the adult in the room. Notable presidents elected by this strategy were
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Nov 19, 2016 23:24
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Tatum Girlparts posted:the biggest problem there is how do you argue it? You run a candidate who doesn't have the public perception of being Nixon in drag and who can counter that prosperity gospel bullshit by actually harping on the fact that he's a terrible business man who's only out for himself, just like the CEO of the corporation that closed the factory you and your family worked at for generations.
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Nov 22, 2016 17:33
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Trump's message was identity too! God drat man why is it only 'identity politics' when minorities do it? Trump's entire message was identity! We'll be one America under one god blah blah blah, for gently caress's sake the retard ran for like a straight week saying 'we'll be saying merry christmas again'! He constantly talked about how those bad hombres and Muslims weren't integrating into America and how others were constantly trying to gently caress with our identity (as straight white guys). False promises are still hope if you buy into them. Trump blaming the problems of the lower class on nebulous others and promising to do something about them is still a message of hope to his audience. Trump deriding current politicians whose policies and actions have done nothing to help rural America and promising to 'drain the swamp' is still a message of hope. It doesn't matter if it's delivered in hateful and spiteful tones: Trump sold his audience the hope that electing him would make things better for them. Clinton did no such thing.
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Nov 22, 2016 19:13
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Tatum Girlparts posted:right but how many of the kinds of people who's hope comes in terms of 'the goddamn chinamen are conspiring' would support someone who's message of hope would be something like 'we need to improve our social programs so people don't go hungry' and poo poo? The hope wasn't "the goddamn chinamen are conspiring", the hope was "Trump will do something to stop the chinamen because Obama and Washington sure as gently caress aren't going to, they didn't even bother helping me get my blue collar job back and also now I have to pay Obamacare taxes, Trump said he'd get rid of those too". Stop conflating Trump's actual words and the understood message. Taking him literally but not seriously is exactly why Clinton hosed up and didn't do poo poo for Michigan/Wisconsin.
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Nov 22, 2016 19:16
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Fullhouse posted:just check my website be sure to tweet your response in three emojis
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Nov 22, 2016 19:29
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GlyphGryph posted:You talk about the messages of hope you have offered people in the past. For example: You promised gay people a better life, where they could get married to the person they loved, and you loving delivered it. They had hope, and that hope was realized. And you can do the same for the hopes and dreams of your target audience, just like you did for them. Before Tatum gets their underwear in a tizzy, please note that the people who are going to be pissed and horrified that you acknowledged gay people as people aren't the people you're trying to inspire. Those people wouldn't vote for a Democrat even if the election was Jesus Christ-D and Satan-R and you know it.
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Nov 22, 2016 20:08
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Baloogan posted:that begs the question: what is language? what does it mean when we say english evolves naturally? English was intelligently designed by King James, the author of the Bible.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:03
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Trump seems like he's changing the game just fine he changed the game from monopoly to calvinball it's not exactly a step forward
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Nov 28, 2016 17:28
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:It's huge (yuge, if you will) for Trump and Republicans. It could have been huge for a Dem candidate and the Democrats. no, because the republicans would still control the house and state legislatures and the democrats would still be spineless incrementalists monopoly is apt because once someone starts winning, they continue to win and the rest of the game is just a slow painful slog towards the inevitable end in the current hypermajority game of calvinball that the republicans have, they can just go ahead and rewrite all of the rules to 'trump and the republicans win, everyone else can suck it'
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Nov 28, 2016 17:33
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GlyphGryph posted:Since this thread has largely become about arguing and sharing arguments now that the initial wave of criticisms has passed, would people like to see a dedicated "Getting Involved and Staring Involved" thread? There's an activism thread, but I think that's more for particular causes rather than helping the Democrats unfuck themselves. Go for it. At worst, nobody posts in it or it gets gassed.
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Nov 28, 2016 17:41
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it's a good thing you're getting me all hyped up to vote for <insert democrat here>, steve i don't know how your policies are gonna affect me and my blue collar, but i sure am glad you have this platform of "vote for us, we're not them"
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Dec 5, 2016 14:43
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Nameless_Steve posted:I don't need to water the flowers before a rainstorm. i don't need to spend money in michigan and wisconsin i need to go be on stage with lena dunham, that will endear me to voters
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Dec 5, 2016 15:00
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Nameless_Steve posted:If Trump doesn't turn dictator and rig the elections and we win in 2018–– I.E. we gain a ton of governorships and we don't lose seats in the Senate–– then 2020 will be a cakewalk no matter who we nominate. It could be loving Lieberman and all the progressives will be knocking doors out there in full force. once again, the democrats are going to define themselves by their opponent, and they're going to lose because the GOP gets to say "well, yeah, we have to undo eight years of OBAMA" do you have any thoughts on trader joe's, steve?
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Dec 5, 2016 16:40
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:A 74-year-old Trump who clearly didn't even want to be president will not go for a second term he wanted the title and authority, not the position nor responsibility he'll run again if he's healthy enough and continues to have pence there to do all the actual work Serf posted:The man has an ego roughly the size of Jupiter. He will not turn down the chance to continue being the most famous and talked-about person in the world. also this
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Dec 5, 2016 16:59
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comingafteryouall posted:yeah, and that is why Republicans suck and Dems should be campaigning on hating the banks and wall street and actually following through. but how can cory booker hate the bankers when he himself is made of bankers? 
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Dec 5, 2016 17:07
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Nerses IV posted:I just don't get it. Didn't they understand that it was her loving turn??? this is us pol thread wish we were cool thread clutchin' at pearls thread i'm postin' right now if hillary don't win i'll be dead i'll post in us pol thread and i don't really care if nobody else believes because i'm a goon on the spectrum per the dsm-v
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Dec 6, 2016 14:42
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paranoid randroid posted:hello i wish to learn more about smashy-smashy. do you have some sort of newsletter we were going to print one, but amanda got a bit overzealous and smashy-smashy'd the printing press
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Dec 6, 2016 23:12
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Concerned Citizen posted:i know we're all nihilists here but she was right, the last thing louisiana needed was a presidential campaign. but of course trump got the W there because he didn't give a poo poo if the security for his event disrupted the actual process of rescuing people, but that's how it goes. louisiana didn't need it but her campaign sure did
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Dec 7, 2016 15:49
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Yinlock posted:or we could try to see trump as he actually is rather than play directly into his cult of personality img-parksandreclookingshocked.gif
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Dec 7, 2016 16:30
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docbeard posted:I seriously cannot wait until a presidential candidate is asked about their participation in something called 'Nite Crew'. it'd be like choom gang we go play cspam l a t e r s
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Dec 21, 2016 15:36
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freckle posted:We need to run a center-right candidate in 2020 to take down Donald Trump, idiot. but they can't have unpaid parking tickets or have talked to people who aren't republicans we just need to run republicans
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Dec 21, 2016 17:00
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Al! posted:heres my list of class enemies so far you know sometimes those rich people do us favors like donating to charities that benefit everyone, like the susan komen foundation sometimes they create us jobs too maybe we should just take them off the list
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Dec 21, 2016 17:07
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Bolton Hairy-Bore posted:class enemies: great, more concessions to AIPAC 
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Dec 21, 2016 17:14
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paranoid randroid posted:nah im afraid we're booked solid for the next fifty years with appointments to claw bloody runnels into our own faces while screaming about liberals ughhh i hate this socialized obamacare making me wait fifty years for an appointment its just like canada
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Dec 21, 2016 17:57
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Al! posted:as if you could ever get the leftists to agree to line up in a circle like that paranoid randroid posted:lets just sort of mill around and shoot each other in the head at random intervals then tbf the left does this with more precision and determined motions than i've seen at the tomb of the unknown soldier
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Dec 21, 2016 18:05
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Al! posted:ideological purging is like the one thing the left is better at than the right, let us have this please that's not true we have better comedians and celebrities, look at them, look at how great they are lena dunham understands my pain as a blue collar white dude
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Dec 21, 2016 18:10
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Democrazy posted:What points, what values, unite the Democratic coalition that we already have? Without striving to at least understand our own coalition, I don't see how we can hope to expand it. uhhhhhh we're not republicans
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Dec 21, 2016 18:13
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Democrazy posted:Bernie Sanders wasn't the only person to find resonance with that message. Barack Obama's 2012 campaign (and to a lesser extent, 2008) was built on that, and he's one of the most popular Democrats alive. Don't sell economic populism short. economic populism works the issue is in electing an actual economic populist
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Dec 21, 2016 18:31
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Lastgirl posted:lets just keep going back and back to the drawing board before we can even think of doing anything. the drawing board is white, this upsets me 
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Dec 21, 2016 19:29
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Keith Ellison is a muslim from Detroit, Michigan i don't know if we can appeal to disaffected republicans with this pick, maybe we should reconsider
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Dec 21, 2016 19:43
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paranoid randroid posted:Gavin Newsom is basically Mitt Romney with better taste in religions how does he feel about trees are they the right height?
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Dec 21, 2016 19:52
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