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Poll: Who Should Be Leader of HM Most Loyal Opposition? This poll is closed. |
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| Jeremy Corbyn |
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95 | 18.63% |
| Dennis Skinner |
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53 | 10.39% |
| Angus Robertson |
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20 | 3.92% |
| Tim Farron |
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9 | 1.76% |
| Paul Ukips |
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7 | 1.37% |
| Robot Lenin |
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105 | 20.59% |
| Tony Blair |
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28 | 5.49% |
| Pissflaps |
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193 | 37.84% |
| Total: | 510 votes | ||
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The Taiwan comparison has to be the dumbest one yet.
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Mar 13, 2017 13:13
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Miftan posted:omnifuck autocyclic-reactive-fuckchain
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Mar 13, 2017 15:29
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forkboy84 posted:There are definitely people who pirate music. Spotify is poo poo when I'm out on the go because I live in the Scottish Highlands & mobile signals may as well not exist up in large parts of it. Including my bedroom. There's still P2P services out there like Soulseek, and certainly in the many different strains of the metal underground there are loads of blogs with links to cool poo poo. Like there's a great anarcho-punk/crust/anarcho black metal one I follow, & another for DSBM (scenes that Spotify isn't particularly good for anyway). Lots of the poo poo is demos and stuff from unsigned bands that are freely available, but some of it is undoubtedly straight up Spotify gives you the option to download your playlists to your device so you can listen offline.
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Mar 13, 2017 16:02
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jBrereton posted:... there is no real nuance to be had in a binary referendum.  An actual post made in 2017. Fangz posted:Someone should ask Corbyn how enthusiastic he is about unionism. As a number out of 10. Lots of people like me who were a 10 last time round are definitely not anymore. Lord of the Llamas fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 21:24
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big scary monsters posted:That's what they did last time so probably what they'll try again. If only, Labour made a huge mistake being seen as a part of the Westminster cabal. Cameron's face in this pic does look like he's experiencing a flashforward to 2016 though.
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Mar 13, 2017 21:38
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Taear posted:I know this happened but it really really annoys me. Of course Labour wanted the union to stay together. People seeing Labour as having betrayed them over it just totally baffled me. big scary monsters posted:I dunno, there was The Vow that was immediately shot and buried following the No vote, and there was Gordon Brown's last minute essay writing and I can barely remember what else Labour was involved in in the last referendum. Of course I was living in Scotland so probably wasn't the main focus of their campaign. Well so was I and it seemed to me that the cross-party "Better Together" campaign just played right into the "Us vs Them" mentality the SNP were trying to encourage. You don't remember a distinctive Labour involvement in the campaign exactly because there was no substantive or distinctive Labour campaign beyond Better Together which lumped them right in there with Cameron. People act as if the Scottish Tories* have played a masterstroke since the referendum taking hardcore unionist votes from Scottish Labour but the fact of the matter is that ~50%~ of Scottish Labour's vote has gone to the SNP since 2007 and any support lost since then has really been small in comparison. It's actually incredible how close the parallel between the Scot Lab and UK Lab decline has been in the months after the Indyref and Brexit referendums respectively. In both cases Labour had the misfortune of having the most divided electorate and in both cases the referendum has been an earthquake in old party political loyalties. * The Ruth Davidson Funny on HIGNFY and I'm not Sturgeon Party Lord of the Llamas fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 21:56
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Pissflaps posted:There was a 'labour for independence' campaign but everyone in it joined the SNP straight after. The SNP got 45% in Holyrood 2011 elections so it's not as if we couldn't see it coming. Edit: 67%, my prediction for the result in Indyref2. Lord of the Llamas fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 22:00
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Pissflaps posted:67%? No way. Not unless something really, really dramatic happens. It's a good nothing nothing dramatic tends to happen these days.
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Mar 13, 2017 22:40
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The Lib Dem is having a tantrum over Labour not bothering drag things out in impossible to win parliamentary battles. Given that the entire 2015 Tory manifesto that lead to Brexit was a positioning tool to another pathetic Liberal/Tory coalition I conclude this: GO gently caress YOURSELF!!!!!!
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Mar 13, 2017 23:51
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TinTower's revisionism over the 2015 GE is quite something to behold. I can only imagine there was some more interesting NUS politics going on causing great distraction.LemonDrizzle posted:I don't think you can credibly argue "they wouldn't do it" when they did it to the last majority Tory government. The thing Cameron loved about the coalition was being able to blame the LDs for every compromise, especially when it's what he wanted anyway. The (relative) nutter wing of the Tories had little leverage when their threatened rebellions were met with equal and opposite reaction from the coalition partner. The problem is that the much feted "moderates" like Ken Clarke, Soubry, or Morgan, don't have the numbers and/or guts to gently caress with the government as much. Lord of the Llamas fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 00:49
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jBrereton posted:In 1992 Labour's position looked utterly terminal. Like as bad or maybe even worse than right now. Black Wednesday turned it around. Labour crushed it in the polls from that very week and zombie Marx would've carried 1997 on that wave. It turning a page on "old Labour" was really the key then Kinnock wouldn't have done so badly. TinTower posted:Do you think the Tories really thought they could get away with ditching the EU referendum promise, after what happened to the Lib Dems? Yes because most people beyond UKIP and the Tory right didn't really want an EU referendum at that point and being shameless liars and "pragmatists" is a part of being a Tory politician. IIRC it was bacon sandwiches and the SNP "threat" that was front and centre of the 2015 GE.
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Mar 14, 2017 01:00
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Prince John posted:Reversing on the manifesto commitment for an EU referendum sounds like a good way to ensure that a certain purple coloured party became 'major' in British politics. 2015 was almost certainly "peak UKIP" in electoral terms though. Had there been a continuation of the coalition (or a Lab govt) then there would have been no referendum and they would continue to win MEPs but never win any Westminster seats. At this point we'd be bored to death over crocodile tears from Lib Dems claiming they had slightly lessened Osborne's austerity program (again) for the current parliament and we should all be oh so grateful to them.
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Mar 14, 2017 01:06
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learnincurve posted:Why do people assume people voted to leave because of racism? I'm sick of the London based media portraying the majority of the country as being ignorant racists because they want to leave Europe. Your average racist is fully aware that Asia isn't in Europe and that won't make any difference to immigration from those countries. If you want a more accurate stereotype then try " being sick of the UK paying in to prop up Eastern European countries who don't contribute poo poo" You've got this wrong on several counts: 1) A majority of the country did not vote to leave, just a majority of votes cast. 2) They are not racist because they want to leave Europe, they want to leave Europe because they are racist. 3) They'll happily get rid of all the non-European migrants too. 4) I don't live in London and this is what real Brexiters tend to be like. 5) If they're just sick of "propping up Eastern European countries" then why are they all so ignorant about how much the EU costs and what it spends its money on?
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Mar 14, 2017 13:02
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jBrereton posted:Uh the US gets about twice as much in terms of exports and about a third more in overall trade as France (http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/gbr/), which you may recall is just down the chunnel. The USA has 5 times more population than France. Why aren't you comparing the USA to the whole of the EU?
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Mar 14, 2017 14:37
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jBrereton posted:OK well let's go for another EU state smaller than France; we export more to the Netherlands than to France. I don't think it's meant to be taken literally.
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Mar 14, 2017 14:44
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Many of these countries will be open to negotiating trade deals with the UK in the same way that Wonga is open to lending people money.
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Mar 14, 2017 15:00
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Guavanaut posted:That's the one that Sinn Fein want a vote on. Well, they want Britain to be the UK.
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Mar 14, 2017 22:19
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Namtab posted:I'm going to follow pissflaps on twitter Rock bottom.
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Mar 15, 2017 00:27
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MikeCrotch posted:I always And comparing the Labour stance on Article 50 to tuition fees. Because apparently the Lib Dems lost a referendum on fees and the Tories had an absolute majority then.
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Mar 15, 2017 10:20
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about Lib Dems who think they were punished electorally for breaking a campaign promise on tuition fees, and not for propping up the Tories for 5 years and helping enact crushing austerity and cuts.
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Fangz posted:It's because you are comparing congressional favourability with presidential favourability. Congress as a whole has been less favourable than cockroaches for ages. (Gallup congressional approval averages something like 20% approve/80% disapprove?) A president gets some points just for being president. Also, everyone rates their own congressperson higher than congress as a whole. So it's always the other people's congressperson's fault.
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Mar 15, 2017 11:07
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Private Speech posted:What became of the whole war crimes thing anyway? Wasn't it supposed to be handled differently than just normal murder. War crimes are something foreigners do not are boys.
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Mar 15, 2017 12:41
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Guavanaut posted:Who would replace the Lib Dems though? If the coalition and 2015 GE taught us anything it's that Lib Dems are indistinguishably replaced by Tories.
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Mar 15, 2017 14:10
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We should all just have allotments.
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Mar 15, 2017 14:28
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Dead Goon posted:Which one is she again - the one who uses computers? No, that's Liz "4.5%" Kendall.
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Mar 15, 2017 15:45
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Shy Tories are real they're called Lib Dems.
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Mar 15, 2017 16:46
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spectralent posted:Listening to Nandy she does seem to have a reasonably good diagnosis of the issues; why's she not in the running for leadership? A case of "I've got the diagnosis right and treatment wrong" or what? She's too left wing for the Labour right and she hitched her wagon to Owen Smith in a big way in the coup and so there's some serious bad blood between her and the Labour left.
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Mar 15, 2017 18:19
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forkboy84 posted:Well that's always the risk with atm You have to remember that proper Blairites are mostly devoid of ideology so they no more like true believers on the right than they do on the left.
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Mar 15, 2017 21:36
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So the Dutch Labour party are going to lose like 75% of their seats. Probably because they were too left wing. Nothing to do with them having been in coalition with the Dutch Conservatives.
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Mar 15, 2017 22:20
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LemonDrizzle posted:And the clear demand for further left politics is demonstrated by the fact that of the 29 seats lost by PvdA, GL picked up 12 and SP picked up... -1. And -10 were picked up by the Conservative VDD  How did you miss out the gains by the "Party for the Animals" party 
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Mar 15, 2017 22:35
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Pissflaps posted:How? Empty suit centrists lost 29 seats and an actually left party gained 12?
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Mar 15, 2017 22:41
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Pissflaps posted:What happened to the other 17? Well they certainly didn't go to the ruling Conservative party that lost 10 seats. I'll leave it for you to read through the wikipedia summaries of the numerous small parties to gain seats. But as far as I can tell none of the left wing parties actually lost seats. So yes, it looks like bland pragmatic centrism was the loser of the night.
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Mar 15, 2017 22:47
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jBrereton posted:SP is a party of the left. So one left wing party lost one seat? Well ok then. Pissflaps posted:Based on those defensive reactions I don't think I need to look up what all those initials stand for to work out the majority of those centre left seats didn't go to the far left. They all went to parties that are to the left of the Dutch Labour Party. Which clearly wasn't even centre left anymore.
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Mar 15, 2017 23:00
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Cerebral Bore posted:Neoliberal Third Way parties aren't actually on the left and are also the poster children for a failed ideology, hth. Exactly; centre-right but slower isn't centre-left in my book 
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Mar 15, 2017 23:03
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Pissflaps posted:Can an expert in Dutch politics fact check this for me please I don't trust this guy. Welp according to the IPSOS exit poll.. Right wing nutters: PVV (nobody will govern with them) +4 seats Parties to the right: VDD: -10 seats CA: +6 seats CU: +1 seat. SGP: No change Net: -3 seats Parties in the "centre": PvdA: -29 seats D66: +7 Net: -22 Seats Parties to the left: SP: -1 Seat GL: +12 seats PvdD: +3 seats Net: +15 Seats I don't know what the gently caress: 50+ (pensioners party): +2 seats Others: +5 seats Clearly a great victory for the right and centre there. Lord of the Llamas fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Mar 15, 2017 |
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Mar 15, 2017 23:19
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Private Speech posted:That's one way to look at it, but then take this crosspost from the nederelection thread, from an actual dutch SP (lefties) voter: Even accepting that 50+ and some others are right wing that's somewhat cancelled out in his numbers by PvdD which are left wing. You can hardly seriously call the PvdA losses 'left losses' when they've just spent 5 years in coalition with the Conservative party though. At best such a coalition is an appeal to centrism which is why I lumped them in with D66, who appear to be the Dutch Lib Dems.
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Mar 15, 2017 23:35
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jabby posted:You can certainly do that, but then you should stick VVD with centrists too. It still demonstrates the same thing - a bad night for centrism (although worse for left-centrism) but a good night for the fringes (better for the further-left). The main lesson of the last 30 years is that "left centrism" isn't a thing because it accepts the basic tenets of neoliberalism and completely fails to deliver anything but superficial changes. Hence why "left centrism" has alienated its voters so much. I'm happy to lump the VVD in the centre - the original point I was answering was if the parties were to the left or right of the PvdA. The question is why do you think these parties are "fringe"? Or is third way centrism or near-centrism the only acceptable politics as defined by Bill Clinton and Tony Blair? Private Speech posted:It makes it considerably more likely for the resulting government to be right-wing, though. There's even enough votes to shut out the left completely, albeit it would be a stretch without PVV. The Lib Dem/Conservative coalition is a textbook example of how not to do a coalition. I fail to remember even one real concession the Lib Dems got from the Tories during the coalition? jabby posted:The problem is centre-left voters seem to abandon their parties when they are seen to co-operate with the right. See: the Lib Dems at the last election, Labour in Scotland post-indyref, and now this. Centrist coalitions might be less bad than right-wing governments, but they directly lead to right-wing governments. That and "centrist" governments don't appear to be a balance; just right-wing but slower and more polite.
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Mar 15, 2017 23:49
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What was the manifesto agreement the Tories broke in the same magnitude as the tuition fees, for example?????
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Mar 16, 2017 00:00
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So can anyone give me a single loving example where a "centre" or "centre-left" party being in coalition with a right of centre party hasn't ended in loving disaster?OwlFancier posted:Wasn't that voluntary on Clegg's part? So what? He was Mr. Centrism in action.
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Mar 16, 2017 00:05
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jBrereton posted:Does the last ten years in Germany count A curiosity indeed. The only reason Merkel (barely) needed the SPD in 2013 was because the FDP (aka the German Lib Dems) failed to reach the threshold and went from 93 to 0 seats (!!). So another crushing defeat for the hardcore centrists I guess.
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Mar 16, 2017 00:18
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jBrereton posted:Yeah SPD: Die Neue Mitte have been hardcore centrists since the 90s if you think New Labour/PdvA are centrists. I suppose it should be pointed out that "centrism" in Germany includes maintaining the 40 year old law on worker representation on boards, for example.
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Mar 16, 2017 00:24
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