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Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.

datingvolcanoes posted:

By the way, after reading the open chapter of Immune, I'm not against the new uniform based off her X-Force history and practicality (even if I prefer her as a superhero in the blue and gold,) but man I mis David Lopez doing interiors. Kirk is really doing this book no favors as a jumping-on point.

I also miss Lopez (and Marcio Takara!) but while Kirk will never be one of my favourite artists, he is very consistent and a totally solid storyteller, which the artists post-Lopez and Takara struggled with noticeably at times. (Hopefully) no more constant chopping and changing of artists will be very welcome on All-New Wolverine.

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Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.
I am so here for this: http://comicbook.com/2017/07/05/marvel-legacy-x-men-mojo-worldwide-cullen-bunn/

I read all the Mojo stuff I could find on Marvel Unlimited recently and had a great time. The original Longshot mini is so good; Ann Nocenti just wrote such a unique comic and Ricochet Rita owns.

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.

twistedmentat posted:

I have zero problem with Emma going nuts and being evil, because the one good thing in her life is gone, and she sees a chance to recapture it. It's totally a bad guy thing to do. I loved Heroic Emma a lot, but I am cool with this.

Ah yes, another strong X-woman going nuts, just like Scarlet Witch, Polaris, Jean Grey (admittedly due to Mastermind), Magik (debatable perhaps), etc but in this case it's over her ex-boyfriend. Sure, she could still have had feelings for him, but this is a very extreme, tiresome reaction to me and if she is just trying to manipulate Tykeclops to replace Scott then that's weird and bad writing though I will withhold total judgement for now since there could be more to it.

I also take umbrage with your assertion that she has nothing good in her life as she is loaded, actually does have friends among the X-Men and presumably beyond. She's also been 'heroic' for far longer than she's been a villain at this point, so it's rather an extreme backslide, which could have been cool (i.e. tying it to her previously lost classes or revealing that Cyclops helped her deal with her lovely family and having her snap), but instead was simply a contrived event flip.

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.
This is important work: http://www.xavierfiles.com/2017/07/08/which-x-men-vape/

quote:

If there is one X-Man who unequivocally vapes, it is obviously Gambit

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.

Android Blues posted:

X-Men Gold's serial killer brutally executing a bunch of teenage students in the X-Mansion really soured me on the book. For all the talk of getting back to the highs of Claremont's run on Uncanny, that's not something those stories would have done so perfunctorily.

It's just a normal dude too, right? IIRC he goes away after his daughter's death and manages to be skilled enough with weapons & hacking to cause issues for the X-Men plus he has equipment that counters the Gold team. Even if Ms. Nance was funding/training him it's still ridiculous that the flagship book was so perfunctory (not that I wanted more of it), especially compared to, say, the Purifiers blowing up a bus of depowered students.
The recent issue about the alien who showed up in the initial Brotherhood was just dire and unoriginal too. Guggenheim seems to think he has a hot new enemy on his hands here.

Interestingly, Eye-Boy losing an eye hasn't shown up yet in Gen X, but they went to the trouble of coordinating a conversation between Idie and Quentin in Gen X and Iceman. Could be a timing thing, but I'm amused they are ignoring Guggenheim's stuff thus far.

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.
This is a strong article: https://io9.gizmodo.com/its-time-for-the-x-mens-stories-about-discrimination-to-1818715399

I'd definitely like to see more intersectionality within the X-Men themselves, written by creators who can handle these topics ably. We've obviously had some passing privilege stuff with the X-Men, but a lot of recent runs have just been a super team with a PR problem facing crisis after crisis. Which reminds me that I did like Fraction/Gillen having a PR person for the X-Men in San Francisco and Gillen's Generation Hope touched on some international responses to mutants that was good stuff.

I miss the Academy X kids so much. They were so messed up by what they had to face in Messiah CompleX and afterwards with the Purifiers and Bastion, but they carried on regardless. :3: Well, those that survived.

I'd love an anthology X-book to return with shorter stories/one-shots focusing on individual mutants again, but no way is an anthology book with less action gonna work these days. Without Mutant Town, the Morlocks, a Utopia/Genosha or something, it feels like the X-Men are kind of adrift these days. Early days still since the latest relaunch, but they need to decide what they're doing regarding the direction for the X-Men because the Central Park thing hasn't really figured yet, and the Blue team in Madripoor just kind of stop by occasionally to hang out with their new buddies.

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.
I love Tom Taylor's writing, Laura Kinney is my favourite character and I of course love Gabby (who should be extra glorious with Namor as a foil) while both Jeans are interesting characters so I welcome the return of the older Jean. I trust that Taylor has a good hook for Trinary too.

But yeah, a little underwhelmed at the team because I'm not huge on Nightcrawler or Gentle, especially when we could have Anole and Rockslide. Being honest however, I think every X-Announcement will be a bit underwhelming to me until the Academy X kids make their long-overdue comeback unless the team is almost entirely my older favourites. As stated, above, I'm sure he has solid plans for Nightcrawler and Gentle so I'll shut up.

To reiterate, I am excited for this, especially with how underwhelming Astonishing, Blue and Gold have been for me (they're just... fine at best, but severely lacking in energy for me) so it would be great to have a kick-butt X-team book alongside Gen X, which is obviously a different feel but very awesome.
Looks like Gambit or Rogue are joining X-Men Red too: https://twitter.com/MarkPaniccia/status/930154241834082311

Re: the upcoming Mothervine stuff, I did see some pure speculation that Emma Frost will betray the Mothervine villains she's allying with and repower some mutants who weren't in the 198. That would be an interesting plotline if she was written well. I don't think they can make this an 'Emma was Right' situation after the poor writing in DoX/IvX for her, but it would help, potentially.

Presumably, this is for Kitty and Peter? https://www.cbr.com/marvel-teases-wedding-of-the-century/ Storm and T'Challa are consciously not doing that again despite rekindling their relationship, and I can't really think of any other significant couples (Brother Voodoo and Scarlet Witch have just started flirting while Peter and Bobbi seems unlikely...) unless Kelly Thompson has to beat up the entire X-office and get Rambit hitched! Considering how diligent her research was on Gambit and Rogue, she might have Tower of Babel'd the Editors.

EDIT: Goddammit, I forgot Hulkling and Wiccan. They're not in anything though so it'd be an odd choice unless they are due to feature heavily soon.

Metalshark fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Nov 13, 2017

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.
All-New Wolverine was huge this week, continuing what is shaping up to be a big, big arc for Laura and Daken. Fantastic drama, and Juann Cabal is clearly having fun with his background touches in his issues. The 5 framed cat pictures in a dramatic fight panel were great.

As much as I enjoyed ANW, Gen X managed to steal the show for me with the lovely gay little mutants: Bling! and Mercury being a thing makes me so happy and Nathaniel and Benjamin are just so cute. I'm loving Jubilee and Chamber too, as well as Lin Li and Trevor's aloofness/awkwardness, plus Mplate continues to be really creepy. Christina Strain is writing the hell out of the book, and the creative team are backing her up with aplomb. Even Quentin is getting some tough love and emotions, which Strain goes into here with a really interesting take on him: https://www.cbr.com/generation-x-classic-characters-marvel-legacy-christina-strain-interview/

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.

rantmo posted:

Cable repeatedly calling her X-23 in the most recent issue of his title made me so loving mad. It's like, dammit Nate, I know your book is rapidly declining in quality, particularly the art, but you will show proper respect to the best Wolverine that there ever was.

He's using mutants from the past, so she was going by X-23 at that point, hence the old costume.

Also, Malin drew Armor with goat legs at one point during that issue, so bad is his ability to draw feet. Or anything.

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.

twistedmentat posted:

I've hated Daken up until this series.

Also Gabby's awe at Laura Captain Americaning that guy. Gabby is the best. Oh that reminds me, who was at Sarah Kinney's funeral? Obvs Laura, her aunts, and Gabby, Daken, Logan, Beast, Jubilee and of course JOnathan (who has his own Tux), but who is the blond guy, and the guy with the emo hair, the guy with the black gloves. I assume the blond woman is Carol.

Laura, Megan, Debby, Gabby, Jonathan, Daken, Old Man Logan, Gambit, Jubilee, Beast, Warren, Carol Danvers, and Julian Keller. The latter of whom is quite noteworthy because Taylor hasn't gone near Hellion thus far, and the dude also popped up in Phoenix Resurrection with Laura (but nothing came of it) and now he's attending her mother's funeral. Considering how they left off in Liu's series, something must be afoot.

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.
^I think it's set in the present? Not really sure what the full deal with New Mutants is tbh.

Pleased to see that we'll be getting the Jean reunion moments that Resurrection didn't cover: https://www.newsarama.com/38656-tom-taylor-x-men-red-interview.html

Also, I'm still so hyped for Red, as it feels like a proper X-Men team book - Tom Taylor really gets it. I also wonder if the Jean/Laura connection is about rejecting 'destiny'/control over your life?

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.
^She really makes an amazing Cable, and Jay did a great job as Hope too. :3:

Rogue & Gambit #3 blew me away with the quality of the dialogue, and I'm still super-intrigued by the central mystery of the paradise resort. Pere Perez did a fantastic job on the fight scene, keeping it clear with so many involved and, as a Rambit fan, I am obviously thrilled, but Kelly Thompson has addressed their past issues in a way that doesn't diminish or handwave them while still providing a viable way forward. :allears:

X-Men: Red #2 continued it's hot start. It just feels *right*, Jean was a badass in comfortable clothes like a boss, and Gabby was an absolute scene-stealer, without being overbearing. Also want to reiterate Sentinel Red's point that Trinary seems very cool.

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.

BrianWilly posted:

The straights can keep Gambit tbh

Hard disagree. He should be the foremost X-Men bisexual dude. :allears:

(Magik, Rachel or Kitty as the foremost bisexual lady???)

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.

amigolupus posted:

So as someone who never got to read older X-Men comics, what is Kitty Pryde about? Like, what makes her a great character, and what are the stories she's been in?

I know a few things from this thread like how she's always had terrible costumes, was Wolverine's sidekick at one point and dated a bunch of Peters. But my main impression of her is from recent X-Men comics where she keeps jumping from team to team. It makes me think that she's either got wishy-washy loyalties or that she's badly emulating Wolverine's gimmick of being in every team.

She's the a smart, plucky kid who grows up over the course of memorable X-Men adventures (Uncanny & Excalibur), and a lot of the recent X-comics writers grew up with her as their POV character (Whedon's Astonishing X-Men run and Bendis' run coming to mind), which has helped keep her prominent after some lulls. She also has a pet alien dragon and notable friendships with fan-favourite X-Men and related characters, and starred in some landmark runs.
In short: interesting power, prominence in Days of Future Past and Dark Phoenix as well as Uncanny #143, where she basically does Alien, pet alien dragon, lots of queer subtext*.

*It's actually essentially text.

amigolupus posted:

Who are the other candidates for the foremost X-Men bisexual dudes? Mine would be Wolverine. Dude's been alive for a long time so there's a good chance he probably had experience playing both fields.

Definitely Logan in terms of being a Gay Icon/Bear*, and Daken is actually canonically bisexual, but he's not an A-List character. Ditto for Shatterstar, so I think Gambit wins.

* and also AU James Howlett.

I missed off Mystique, Storm and Psylocke when I was considering Bi X-Women. Psylocke is on-panel, but Storm is far bigger and Yukio is pretty obvious. Mystique and Storm definitely have the name recognition though, so I guess I'd go with Mystique since she's on-panel, and Fantomelle and Mercury are hardly close.

twistedmentat posted:

I'm pretty sure Illyana is just gay.

Yeah, I just assumed that there was a dude somewhere but actually...

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.
Sucks to see Laura go back to X-23 for marketing purposes (no way they can call her that in-universe after she rejected the name in EotS II though..?) but the creative team is fantastic, since I loved Tamaki's take on Shulkie and Cabal ruled during his ANW arc: https://news.marvel.com/comics/85712/x-23-returns-summer/ Sad to lose Taylor, but at least he's on Red still.

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.

Rhyno posted:

Let's be real, we all knew this was happening the moment they brought Logan back.

Gabby probably doesn't make it out of the current bool alive because we don't deserve fun and joy.

Tamaki makes direct reference to Gabby, so on that front we're seemingly ok at least as the Marvel article also mentions her and Jonathan before talking to Juann Cabal. I would hope for it to be a Spider-Gwen title only situation, since Taylor explicitly moved her past that (and they all knew Logan was coming back when this was approved), but it's gonna be odd if she's going by Laura, a la Jean Grey. Talon never came close to sticking, and DC have since used it plus I can't see them appending a new name to her, so perhaps they are reverting her to X-23, which would be utterly lame.

EDIT: All-New Wolverine #32 is another fantastic one-off issue, following up on the Orphans of X conclusion.

Metalshark fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Mar 14, 2018

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.

Galvanik posted:

Dropping the trigger scent was a good idea, but I think the execution was handled very badly.

I haven't read every story she's showed up in but it always seemed to me that a big part of Laura's character was her struggling to break away from other people trying to control her life or decide what she is. Her specific antagonists, even some of her allies, tend to see her as a resource to be exploited. For Kimura, that pimp, and various villains who kidnapped her, they saw her as a literal thing. For most of X-Force Logan saw her as a broken former assassin with a useful skill set that he could use. And Julian being a possessive and potentially abusive not-quite-boyfriend just deciding that she was "his" at the end of her own series.

As she moved past each of those situations she became more of a self actualized person with a sense of her own worth.

When the character was created the word hadn't yet come into popular consciousness, but I always thought it was pretty fitting that Laura could be "triggered". It's comics, so the Trigger Scent made her become an unstoppable killing machine, but the base of the idea is something I think a lot of trauma survivors have to deal with. Some small thing, unnoticeable by everyone else, could just take control at any instant. Even years after the original situation is escaped from the emotional panic still lingers.

I'd always assumed when, if ever, the writers had Laura move past the Trigger Scent it would be some big character moment. Like, in a supreme act of will she finally is able to take control of herself during a crisis. Or maybe it would have been a more subdued thing, like she's able to acknowledge the reaction, but not let it control her.

If nothing else it would be Laura herself somehow causing the change in herself. Instead it was a bunch of her friends doing something to her, against her will. She literally begs "Please don't do this"! Granted it all worked out, and it's better for Laura that she's free of it, and it was her friends and family trying to help her out of concern, not a desire to exploit her.

But narratively it was, at best, kind of meaningless for her as a character since there wasn't any choice or even visible effort on Laura's part.

And worst it affirms the motivations of most of her antagonists and negates alot of her character arc: ultimately other people are the ones who get to decide what happens to her.


edit: And even at face value it's pretty absurd. Prof X couldn't wipe that trauma from her mind? Or Emma Frost? Or the Cuckoos? It was young Jean Grey, who in story only found out she's a telepath a few months ago, and it constantly being ragged on by other telepaths as being blunt force and very unskilled. Bah.

And, like, is being hypnotised really all it takes to permanently fix PTSD? Maybe some telepath should just go sort out the Punisher. Or any of the other characters with horrible trauma they can't move past.
I agree with some of your analysis, but just want to quibble on some things:

The key change was that Jean had Laura under the trigger scent to try and help her, which made all the difference with Comic Book Science in effect. It did not remove her past trauma either, as is evidenced by her disdain for the traffickers she takes down later. Also, iirc Laura did stop herself from killing Tyger Tiger while under the trigger scent, so she did get that moment to an extent, and, moreover, she is the one to take down Kimura, who is a personal aspect of her past trauma.

Honestly, the trigger scent and Kimura had run their course in my opinion, so I was glad to see Laura move past them, though I recognise that Enemy of the State II wasn't a hit with everyone.

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.

Name aside, the upcoming X-23 costume appears to be #2 with the boots from #3, which I'm in favour of. Athleisure mixed with a goth edge works for Laura, and they're keeping the optional jacket from the latter part of ANW too. Prefer the X-Force domino mask to the cowl too, which never worked fully for me.

The neck thing is presumably a two-thirds choker?

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.

IUG posted:

Man, I read that New Mutants: Dead Souls last night. I was pretty excited to read a new New Mutants comic, but that was pretty awful. The art wasn't great in my opinion, especially the facial expressions that didn't seem to match what they were saying/reacting to. It was paced too fast, and the action didn't flow well, like there was missing panels between panels. And the whole story is just a zombie attack? Not much a story to stay interested in it. Also, my wife insists it isn't, but I could have sworn calling someone a "twink" was a slur.

A twink is just a skinny young gay man with abs, which is Wiccan to a T. It's not a slur, but could obviously offend someone for various reasons.

I didn't get on with Dead Souls #1 either, I just didn't like a lot of the characterisation (Guido was practically Lenny from Of Mice and Men) and the initial taste of the plot behind the series was not compelling. It wasn't fun/funny either and reminded me of Rosenberg's Secret Warriors, which just oscillated between humour and drama with little warning and also featured some very "aggressive" characterisation, in that he seems to pump up aspects of characters to their maximum, leaving them lacking nuance. I might give it another chance to see if it gels a bit better with issue #2, but I'm not hopeful. At least this feeling fast was a change of pace from Phoenix Resurrection, which was 3 issues stretched to 5.

(Magik's hairstyle is so bad too.)

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.

Little Mac posted:

Has anyone else been reading and enjoying Rogue and Gambit? It's really quite good.

Oh, it's ridiculously good. I'm a huge fan of both characters, and of them both being together, but I'm confident in saying that Kelly Thompson absolutely gets what makes them great, allowing Rogue to be funny, Gambit to be charming, and their chemistry is crackling. The main plot is interesting enough, but the way that flashbacks are being used to enhance their history while moving them forward is sublime, and Pere Perez and D'Armata are killing it on the art, changing from the past to present while keeping it cohesive, and featuring many, many different costumes and selling the subtle expressions to make every moment sing.

As I said, I'm 100% the target audience, but it's drat good comics regardless of your investment in Rogue and Gambit. It's also a sexy, comedic & romantic comic, which you don't see often at Marvel.

It also has the most glorious depiction of Remy's balls in a speedo you will ever see. :wiggle:

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.
Oof, token X-woman and Greg Land*: https://twitter.com/AshcanPress/status/984827070890086400 Can't say that I'm excited for the next era of Astonishing with Rosenberg's mixed track record, unless he brings it and the mystery team member is someone cool.
Don't know if Weapon X is ending, but at least Warpath is getting another appearance and I love Dazzler, but her getting Land'd again is harsh. Colossus is so dull to me and needs a rest, Beast has been better in recent Avengers than he's in the X-Books for ages and Havok has been awful since Axis so a lot of this lineup need something big to get me invested.

*Could be a mercy in light of this.

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.

pubic works project posted:

So Havok is going to be good again and get his face fixed? Cool

Yeah, that's probably a relief (not least because I'm working my way through the 90s and he's evil due to Dark Beast atm where I'm at), but I've only ever really liked Havok in an X-Factor context (mostly him with Polaris), though I've not read his older stuff yet.

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.

El Gallinero Gros posted:

Is Guido in any x books recently? I know he took over hell but I believe that ended..

He's in New Mutants: Dead Souls, but it's been a mixed portrayal for me so far. Wasn't a fan of the first issue, liked him more in the second issue personality-wise, but the way his powers were demonstrated wasn't right to me in both as he seemed to take hits and not get rid of the energy at all, and certainly not very quickly.

Otherwise, he was in Secret Warriors for an issue or two, but not in such a way it's worth seeking out. Rosenberg seems to like him, but he's very hit & miss with characters for me. He's doing great stuff in Tales of Suspense with Bucky and Clint, and his Boom Boom is great fun, but he tends to take characters to extremes so your mileage may vary depending on whether it jibes with your tastes.

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.
Stop trying to make Post-Credits scenes in comics happen, Marvel: https://news.marvel.com/comics/88824/exterminate-the-past-eliminate-the-future/

Not really feeling Extermination based on Brisson and yet another dystopian future X-struggle storyline either. All-New Wolverine's nigh-utopian future in the final arc has been such a fun change of pace.

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.

twistedmentat posted:

I'm catching up on Jay and Miles and I listened to the Kelly Thompson interview, and I'm going to have to get the trade of Rogue and Gambit because drat, they make it sound like a lot of fun. Also Gambit's balls.

I'm a huge fan of Rogue & Gambit (& them being together) so I am obviously the exact target audience, but it's the most fun & romantic X-book in a good while (shout out to Generation X). While the vast majority of it takes place at the mission location, the first half of the first issue actually makes the School feel like a central hub, and the little interactions between the team members are wonderful. :3:

It's tough waiting for Kelly Thompson's next books to be announced, though her Hawkeye-involving project should be announced before the August solicits. I hope she gets an X-book too, preferably removing Guggenheim.

P.S. Bunn ignoring a really fun fight involving loads of long-forgotten characters (Wildside, Dragoness, Unuscione & Wanderer!) to show another Magneto moment (over Polaris, no less) was peak Bunn. Blue is technically sound, and To's art was great, but it's just so bland.

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.
Taylor ended ANW on a really great note, but I have to say that X-Men Red is just so my jam that I actually preferred the fourth issue to the finale of the series of my favourite character.

Heck yeah, mermaids! :3:

Abroham Lincoln posted:

From the same issue:



Metalshark fucked around with this message at 23:24 on May 16, 2018

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.
I can't stop laughing when people refer to Guggenheim's awful Gambit writing as Remy LeBoyo. No idea why he's suddenly got the most stereotypical Welsh (or Irish, where it's actual slang) affectation but he keeps saying "Boyo" and it's the weirdest thing, even by Guggenheim's low, low standards.

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.
Was Marrow ever popular? Because I am loving her on the 1998-era X-Men team. She's so gloriously lovely to everyone and it's hilarious, plus I am a sucker for her underlying self-perception issues due to her looks and upbringing.

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.
The Good Place spoiler reaction:

Spoiler discussion, including another Guggenheim DC TV show: This is insanely rushed and hilarious considering the CW DC crossover had a wedding twist as well just last year, but I trust Kelly Thompson to spin gold out of it if she's on it. She specifically said that it's not something she said she hoping for yet on her Tumblr, for whatever that's worth, however. Seems an odd way to go about what would have been a wedding that would have been an event though by burying the lede beneath a relationship retread?

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.

Dawgstar posted:

I'd like to hope the Emma book is a start putting her back to being on the side of angels, if not Angel himself.

Well, this is the awesome lady who is writing it: https://twitter.com/i/moments/1013646989882519552

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.
How well do Excalibur, Dazzler and The New Mutants read by themselves? I'm probably gonna try reading chronologically the majority of X-Men stuff from Giant-Size X-Men until the debut of Gambit and do it "properly", but I thought I'd ask anyway in case I burn out or w/e.

For context, I'm knowledgeable about a lot of major Claremont-era stories, and I also split off X-Force and Cable from the other 90s titles on a 90s => mid-2000s X-Men chronological read I'm currently enjoying, so I thought I'd go back and get the full lead-in for Cable and X-Force before I read them (beyond the numerous 90s crossover issues I read, naturally).

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.
Thanks everyone. I'll give Dazzler a go, but I guess there was a reason I've never heard much about it, beyond it being the longest female X-solo title.

I think it will basically come down to whether the properly old X-stuff might be a bit much for me, due to Claremont's wordiness and/or just it being dated in which case I'll maybe hop forward to when Rogue first appears. I actually read Inferno on it's own since it came up in Secret Wars and I know I like the Outback team from that, and Rogue's a favourite.

If I can make it through the 90s* and have a great time... (I'm about to hit Austen's run though... but in order with New X-Men it might not be too funky, and I do like Polaris. Feel free to tut in gentle concern now at my naivete.)

*Minus X-Man, Wolverine, Cable and X-Force since that I felt that would have been too much of an undertaking in one go, hence me looping back around when I catch up to where I've read the major X-Men series from in the mid-2000s.

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.
It's interesting with the X-Men as there's no real way to get in gently, but the big stuff just becomes known to you through osmosis so I'm not gonna be too precious when things get rough. I've read most everything since Messiah CompleX, which was my mainline entry point after New Mutants Vol. 2 and Academy X were my first toe-dip, and I love Gambit so I read from just before his first appearance through the 90s where I'm at Claremont's Revolution return, which is fine enough. I definitely intend to read X-Treme X-Men, Whedon's Astonishing Run (I've read that from Ellis) and Grant Morrison's run at minimum, then I'll loop back for New Mutants, Excalibur and Uncanny, but following a chronological order online (Crushing Krisis is my go-to) unveils some interesting minis and crossovers, and seeing things like digital colouring come in was fascinating.

Claremont's issues just take so long to read, I think it depends on whether the slimmer X-Men line of the 70s and 80s balances that out enough. It's taken me about 9 months to read the 90s X-comics until 2001 (minus the extreme ones I mentioned I carved out), for reference. That said, I do respect his commitment to developing things, so I'm definitely up for trying Uncanny from Giant-Size. Maybe I'll skim the earlier stuff if need be?

Finally, I know this isn't news, but Generation X is the poo poo. I was thrilled that it lived up to the hype so well (gonna suck for Skin to die so ignominiously soonish!). AoA was the big surprise to me, I really thought it would be the worst 90s excess but I enjoyed the heck out of it, especially with how it overlaps as the titles progress. I remember The Phalanx Covenant dragging outside of the Uncanny issues with Emma and the proto-Gen X kids, but otherwise I've enjoyed it all pretty, says the big Rogue & Gambit fan. Even the failures are interesting in the 90s, to me at least.

I'll report back way down the line if Liefeld drives me spare on latter New Mutants and early X-Force, but I've heard good things about Nicieza's development of the characters, and Larry Hama's Wolverine always seemed to be at 1000% when I read the crossover issues, so that might be a fun read since Jean and the others pop up a bit from what I've seen. Jubes & Logan from earlier issues is something I might check out too.

My to-read pile is ridiculous. It includes Darkhawk, Marvel 2099, Marvel Adventures and Spider-Girl/MC2 stuff if it isn't terrible. Go big or go home, right? (I used to read non-Marvel comics ha...haha...ha.)

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.
"The focused totality of my telepathic powers." will always be my favourite. :3:

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.
I found the Astonishing Annual incredibly off-putting. The humourous parts were fun, but I just hate everything about X, and not in a fun way. I can't say it was a bad comic or anything, but I just did not care for it at all. I've been reading post-Onslaught X-Men though, so I've had a lot of unilateral acting, feelings failing Xavier recently, and I just got to New X-Men to top it off.

One thing I'm genuinely curious about, having seen numerous creators talking about how tragic the X-Men are, in that they suffer more than anyone else in the Marvel universe, is whether the X-audience still wants that. X-Men Red, Domino & Rogue and Gambit have been such a breath of fresh air by being fun/uplifting/positive amidst some good personal stakes, and there's a (probably queer) audience who wants to see these gays be happy for a bit, or at least have lower stakes personal drama. That said, X-fan trend hardcore too, with nostalgia being key basedon the team lineups of recent runs so I'm not saying that this is majority, it's just something I've been wondering about.
Obviously, the hated and feared thing is seen as fundamental, and Big Two comics need their mandated fight scene, but it would be great to get more slice of life X-stuff in my opinion.

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.

Yvonmukluk posted:

I liked him in X-Force. The fact he was the one definitively 'good' member of the killsquad was a nice juxtaposition.

I actually sort of thought for a bit that him and Laura would make a good pairing. Then I saw that Kyle tweet how he'd intended her to be gay, and that just makes 100% total sense to me. I mean, I didn't know anything about Iceman, so when Bendis made that canon I had a sort of reflexive 'they changed a thing' dislike of it (the specific circumstances didn't help), but having followed Laura's story, that just seems obvious to me. I almost feel like the Liu run was headed in that direction, actually, between her spending time with Jubilee and breaking it off with Hellion at the very end of the run. Like, looking at the issue in question (X-23 Volume 2 #19, true believers!) She explicitly says that she's has feelings and wants, but that she doesn't want Julian. Then Jubilee shows up at the apartment she's staying at, and the next issue picks up clearly some time later where they've been spending a lot of time together.

Laura/Jubilee is the new Kitty/Rachel is what I'm saying here, I think.

Sorry, we were talking about Elixir, weren't we?

I've seen people say it's kind of strange for Craig Kyle to phrase it in the way he did (it's ambiguous as to whether he meant Evolution, Comics Laura or both iirc) and the usual pushback but I'm glad it's out there because I personally can't picture any dude matching up with Laura well (I do see where you're coming from with Elixir, but that is not viable right now) but the idea of her with modern Illyana and their deadly/scary energies combining is way more exciting. Some people are really energised by the idea of Laura being Lesbian or Bi, on top of the line in X-Men Red that Gabby is exploring her sexuality too. Laura and Mercury are tight (though I like Bling and Mercury together... for background appearances only now I guess) but Laura and Pixie would be a fun contrasting pair and a riff on the Logan/Jean thing with Rachel could be interesting. Plus, Rachel could actually do something that isn't have being chumped endlessly. (I like Jubilee and Chamber, but her and Laura would rule, and I saw someone online suggest a throuple. Moody man Chamber and Laura could get on, and Gabby would love Shogo so I could see it?)

So yeah, I'm in favour of Bisexual/Lesbian Laura, though single "parent" Laura with Gabby is working very well for me in the continued excellence that is X-23. It would be further character development with regards to her sense of self, but it could also just be a matter of fact thing that she figures out (she's still young, and obviously anyone can come out at any time), and a relationship could be a welcome addition to her series down the line, especially with the Gabby factor.

Odonata posted:

I'm six months in the past on Marvel Unlimited where they just published the latest New Mutants #1. It's really bugging me that Wolfsbane and Strong Guy are on the same team without a hint of tension between them. Does the book ever acknowledge that he murdered her son?

Yeah, it comes up. Whether or not it satisfies you will depend on you but it does get some exploration.

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.

BrianWilly posted:

X-Men: Red is so good! gently caress!

It's so good! The little details in the art (probably from Taylor?) are so good, and Carnero sold the hell out of the Newsreader lady delivering that burn on her co-host*. The plot is great too (Cassandra feels like a true threat, and she's terrifyingly vindictive), but details like Laura putting her hand casually on Gambit's shoulder while they looked at the text are so wonderful to see. That's a big deal for her!!

*Helpfully posted by Site in the Marvel thread!

Metalshark fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Sep 26, 2018

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.

Abroham Lincoln posted:

I really liked Red, but there's a weird recurring trend through all the X-books of Rachel getting mindcontrolled. Again. Also in her old costume for some reason. Which I'm pretty sure happened in Gold and Extermination, all within like 3 months of each other.

I like that they're using the character but getting punked in the exact same way over and over feels oddly demeaning and just... lacks creativity.

Yeah, it's been ridiculous how hard Rachel has been punked repeatedly throughout Gold. I feel like Red is fair usage (I mean, Cassandra is a big deal), but Extermination also having her crumple at the same time is unfortunate timing after all of Guggenheim's flailing.

Blue ended well, but it highlighted the wasted potential because it showed the interesting parts of the book were the bits it couldn't focus on for long.

Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.

Alaois posted:

domino annual good

I've reached the Chuck Austen era of Uncanny X-Men, having just finished the Joe Casey stuff, and it was such a boon to see Stacy X treated with some respect and written well for once. The early 2000s misogyny and crappy attitudes towards sex workers were really draining (on top of Austen being as awful as expected) but Leah Williams will help me power through. Austen's run is an interesting failure I suppose ([Iceman is] "straight, and that's the end of it" - oh Northstar :allears: ) and New X-Men is as good as expected, which is helpful when reading chronologically.

Which reminds me, some of the miniseries from the early 2000s are worthwhile, like Muties, Morlocks and BKV's Icons minis. I am enjoying the exploration of mutants as a culture and how individual no-name mutants exist outside of the X-Men, and the Domino Annual taking a look at identity in a 2018 context is a welcome continuation.

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Metalshark
Feb 4, 2013

The seagull is essential.

Wheat Loaf posted:

Was Stacy X an Austen character? I thought she was from Joe Casey's run (which is little remembered today, probably because it ran simultaneously with New X-Men).

Yeah, she debuts in Casey's run with the wasted X-Ranch (which would be fascinating to explore by someone who understands sex work and wants to explore that alongside mutant identity, which I believe Leah Williams and Jay Edidin have both discussed on Twitter) that just gets wrecked while the Uncanny X-Men team is there. They just uselessly do very little to defend it from some Purifier types and Stacy X is frequently belittled because of her profession despite her friends dying. She gets moments, and she has pride in what choices she makes, but she is not a character who is written well or respected.

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