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The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

LGD posted:

I swear to god no one actually bothered to read that article, it does not remotely demonstrate what the URL implies it does

I wonder if this is a "headline not written by writer" thing, because yeah the substance is not what I expected going in.

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The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YttscNOoAjA

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.
I'm sincerely curious what cognitive sorting takes place that the comic book people lean bizarrely strong in that direction, and video fake people are bizarrely strong in the other direction. I'm generalizing but that seems generally true and not only on SA.

Someone get some social psychologists on this.

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

Hot take: Nate deserved all the scorn for the primary (where he pundited his way around the data that was in front of him, in a brutal self-own), but his general election modeling was really not that bad. HuffPost literally attacked him for saying Trump was not the favorite but had a real shot.

HILLARY BOOK CONTENT: http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/328405-clinton-campaign-plagued-by-bickering

quote:

Hillary was so mad she couldn’t think straight. She was supposed to be focused on the prep session for that night’s Univision debate in Miami, but a potent mix of exhaustion and exasperation bubbled up inside.

She’d been humiliated in the Michigan primary the night before, a loss that not only robbed her of a prime opportunity to put Bernie Sanders down for good but also exposed several of her weaknesses. How could she have been left so vulnerable? She knew — or at least she thought she did. The blame belonged to her campaign team, she believed, for failing to hone her message, energize important constituencies and take care of business in getting voters to the polls. And now, Jake Sullivan, her de facto chief strategist, was giving her lip about the last answer she’d delivered in the prep session.

“That’s not very good,” Sullivan corrected.

“Really?” Hillary snapped back.

The room fell silent.

“Why don’t you do it?”

The comment was pointed and sarcastic, but she meant it. So for the next 30 minutes, there he was, pretending to be Hillary while she critiqued his performance.

Every time the Yale lawyer and former high school debate champ opened his mouth, Hillary cut him off. “That isn’t very good,” she’d say. “You can do better.” Then she’d hammer him with a Bernie line.

It wasn’t just Sullivan in her crosshairs. She let everyone on her team have it that day. “We haven’t made our case,” she fumed. “We haven’t framed the choice. We haven’t done the politics.”

“She was visibly, unflinchingly pissed off at us as a group,” said one aide who was in the room for the humiliating scene. “And she let us know she felt that way.”

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.
Late, but: part of the reason I liked Obama in the first place in '08 was he represented a break from the Democratic Leadership Council style elements of the party. Particularly at the beginning - when he was outside the establishment and these people were on Hillary's team - they actively went for a contrasting style and a bolder message than what Mark Penn was offering. Even in 2012, a part of me wonders if Hillary Clinton's team would've been so direct on Bain Capital.

I think that's a legitimate differentiation in the Obama campaigns that wouldn't hold as true for Gore/Kerry/Clinton - though no doubt people do the "you lost therefore everything was a mess" thing, and yeah, liberalism lost.

(tho +1 Kerry is a good man who probably would've made a good president)

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

Panzeh posted:

Mook had more money than his opponent and his response was to pinch pennies as much as possible.
This post reminded me of this:

quote:

But there also were millions approved for transfer from Clinton’s campaign for use by the DNC — which, under a plan devised by Brazile to drum up urban turnout out of fear that Trump would win the popular vote while losing the electoral vote, got dumped into Chicago and New Orleans, far from anywhere that would have made a difference in the election.

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.
^^^ I suppose technically they got that popular vote


I think the flag should only have stars for the good states (New York, Montana, New Mexico, etc.) so people can remember it easier.

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.
What was the phrase "America is great because America is good" intended to imply? I've never even understood what they were going for with that.

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

Sebastien Lenorman posted:

Its worse than that actually. Newspapers now have whole staffs of people who find offensive poo poo, call up buisiness partners and higher ups and say "We're printing this story which is basically slander tomarrow, care to comment slash fire the person"? Watergate broke journalism, journalists no longer even pretend to report the facts, they are ***watchdogs*** out to improve society. Make america better, spend a quarter or two at the newspaper machine, take them all out, and whip them in the trash.

My favorite needless media drive by was that Ken Bone guy when they found his old weird Reddit posts.

The New York Times printed an article on this fact, and despite not caring about him to that point, it made me like Ken Bone and hope he can prove this rear end in a top hat wrong.

Then I kind of intrinsically got Trump's appeal a bit - though I don't want Ken Bone trying to run the country to make a point.

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

NomChompsky posted:

In much the same way that the New deal/Roosevelt political order that drove the US through to the Carter administration failed and fell apart, Trump might just be the final defender of that Reagan order that replaced it. People were frustrated at the end of the 70s because neither party was offering up anything different or something they thought would benefit them any longer, Reagan changed that. Whoever won this election was going to find themselves quickly becoming unpopular and facing a problem that really transcends what either party can offer given their current wisdom.

Yeah I think this is exactly right. Stephen Skowroneks' "Presidents in Political Time" gives a framework for how this works, and Trump is a classic disjunctive president. An outsider to the system, running to uphold the values of a vision of America which doesn't actually make sense anymore, immediately facing internal divisions from his own party, it's all there.

It's also why - and you have to ignore some issues of personal character for this - Obama's presidential equivalent in the New Deal era was probably Richard Nixon. The reason Nixon did stuff like the EPA wasn't out of the goodness of his heart (lol), it was because the New Deal consensus was still strong in Congress and he wanted to secure his own power.


Now, the trick is not winding up in the nativist vs. woke corporatist paradigm mentioned above, but we probably will. =(

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

Fushigi Yuugi fansub posted:

since the definition of the political right seems to be isolationist/nationalist nowadays, and the definition of the left is cosmopolitan/globalist, does it, then, follow that a capital globalist, who opposes any and all restrictions on the movement of capital and people (i.e. workforce), is in fact a leftist?

Here's the easiest answer to your question:

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.
dasharez0ne is right on the merits but Wendy's girl is an ok meme and funny account.

Maybe they should have a Heineken and discuss their differences.

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.
Maybe the Democratic autopsy will provide some needed clarit-

quote:

Why won’t the DCCC release its autopsy report?

Good news: The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee has prepared a thorough autopsy report about its flaws. Bad news: You can’t read it. According to Politico, the report is the long-awaited result of Rep. Sean Patrick Maloney’s investigation into the DCCC’s weaknesses, which were evident in the disaster that was the 2016 election. Those weaknesses allegedly revolve around the ways the DCCC raises and spends money but, again, who really knows:

"Only about two-dozen lawmakers showed up for the presentation, which sources described as “dense but thorough.” But members were not allowed to have copies of the report and may view it only under the watchful eyes of DCCC staff."
(from here)

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

nigga crab pollock posted:

*jerks massive, turgid dick*

*cums massive, huge loads all over my keyboard, repeatedly*

*the tremendous weight of my jism slapping against the keys begins typing words*

In this framework, taking money from an investment bank in the form of a speaking fee is not immoral, it is eminently reasonable. Investment bankers are smart. They allocate resources. That’s why they have power. That’s who elites should be associating with.

firebeats posted:

Yes, the power to set nuclear policy poses as much threat as the power to run a webcrawler on a computer. :downs:
I think you're both misreading what he's actually arguing in this piece. He's not advocating for these positions but giving (what he perceives to be) a rundown of the framework that Obama utilized during his presidency. This is the same guy who wrote this: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/how-democrats-killed-their-populist-soul/504710/

Agree or disagree, but the sections you both seem to be responding to aren't his positions, they're his conception of a neoliberal worldview.

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

quote:

As a policy leader, Obama’s Presidency was largely defined by the financial crisis. The government’s response, organized first by Bush and then Obama, had a moral core. This moral core framed concentrations of financial power not as threats to liberty and democracy, but as vehicles to deliver efficiency and social justice. You don’t, for instance, want random protesters setting nuclear policy, you want generals and experts doing that. You don’t want anyone to be able to organize a search engine, you want the best technologists in the business doing that, doing it well, and doing it for everyone. That’s not just power, it’s the right way to run a society.
The "you" is the theoretical leader using the Bush/Obama moral core, hence the "for instance".

He's not advocating for this moral core or suggesting that as policy, he's describing a neoliberal mindset and approach to policy.

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:

I've said it before but the biggest shock I've ever received from Something Awful was the realization that more posters supported Hillary than Bernie.

That moment was when I realized America is hosed for the long haul.
There was a fascinating element to this where D&D bought wholeheartedly into the Buzzfeed golden age of "social justice" clickbait, roughly 2013-2015. And when they emerged on the other end, there was a sincere antipathy to "Bernie Bros" - my favorite post was when a guy quite sincerely claimed Bernie was losing the African-American vote because of obnoxious Redditors - and a sudden interest in assuring that the neoliberals took their rightful place in the party. Against Bernie Sanders' presumably reactionary movement for single-payer health care and labor policy.

Funny how that works out.

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

Blue Train posted:

Presidency should be determined by a fight to the death between the two candidates

It wasn't for the presidency but Hamilton and Burr had the right idea, really

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

FisheyStix posted:

When the gay flag is reversed, it represents the taking on of a burden, rather than being freed from one as the upright flag suggests. Of course, it's place in the drawing provides context for this burden, and so the prediction in this picture is rather hard to determine without knowing what other major/minor arcana might have come up for Trump.
See, I think you've put more thought into this than Trump has put thought into the entirety of his foreign policy, much less however much thought he put into picking up that flag.

(also as an admitted Straight I don't think Trump holding a flag is very meaningful if he otherwise supports materially bad policies, and this is part of the problem with the hyper-focus on symbolism and optics and stuff)

(also I like your avatar and always watch a loop or two when you post, good work)

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

spacetoaster posted:

I'd say trump's long standing comments (including a lot of written blogs) about his support for gays would stand up better than Obama/Clinton's fast reversal from hating gays just a few years ago.
I still think the mere act of putting Mike Pence in a VP position (who, some hysteria aside, was a few steps above standard-grade Republican homophobe) and the gestures towards 'religious liberty' make me suspicious of where Trump will try to go on this. So these material things can coexist even if Trump's personal opinions might be 100% "gay people are the best".

Also, Obama didn't support gay marriage when he could've in 2008, sure, but he was never exactly pounding the table over this stuff in the way that Trump's inner people did, either. Slow-tracking DADT repeal, where I understood the moral arguments against Obama, also had the impact of getting the (old, bureaucratic, document-oriented) military leadership on board with the idea in a way that signing an executive order might not have.

My understanding is that the Trump admin currently they haven't done much on the gay rights front, either direction, and the religious liberty order was a photo op. But it seems like spin to say Trump is fine on LGBT stuff because he held up a flag and may not have personal animus. It's not "Hillary likes hot sauce" but it's the same universe.

FisheyStix posted:

Thanks! A friend on these very forums helped me out with it, and she did a great job! :)
My hope is one day on a random loop they will overcome their shyness, and perhaps enjoy a movie or social event, together.

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

spacetoaster posted:

I'm gonna need some evidence of this (not being a douche, I honestly want to know). I've heard it said a lot, but I haven't found anything that puts him up above the noise level.
Well, here's a fairly standard-issue laundry listing of his positions: http://time.com/4406337/mike-pence-gay-rights-lgbt-religious-freedom/ or http://www.ontheissues.org/IN/Mike_Pence.htm#Civil_Rights

Honestly, my gut on saying he goes a step more involves the post-Bush reelection, and his chairmanship of the Republican Study Commission. The RSC was basically the tea party before the tea party, and after the Republicans figured they won 2004 based on Bush's "moral values", they pushed a lot of evangelical right material - including the gay marriage amendment , pro-life angles, keeping Terri Schiavo in a state of prolonged animation, etc. And Pence was among the biggest faces in the party hawking this stuff at the time, usually quite straightforward with his language and leaning into the role.

I think this implicit appeal to evangelicals (+ the fact Pence was a warm body willing to do it) was the biggest calculation in him winding up in the VP slot.

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.
Lol I forgot that Hillary dreamily mentioned Henry Kissinger in the primary debate

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCjQbTEuoDU

Bernie probably didn't win a single vote off this (and a bunch of hack pundits laughed at him for bringing this up) but this was among the better callouts in the primary.

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

Toadvine posted:

God dammit. For someone who supposedly prepared day and night for debates she still has to let loose a petty retort when she absolutely needed to keep that kind of behavior bottled up.
Yeah, she kind of deflected to the wider claim they were pursuing that Bernie lacked any meaningful foreign policy advisors (which was true - the Clinton team rounded up just about every Dem foreign policy person way back in like 2015).

It's almost as if she avoided the substantive criticism being lobbed at her by making a vague claim to the effect her opponent was not as qualified and prepared as she was.

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.
While we're on the topic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC_dSYn2gtQ

"I think massive political donations are done to influence politicians"
"You're impugning my character"

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

nigga crab pollock posted:

all the way down the line, it's like a fractal of insane incredible fuckups where sheer hubris allowed democrats to keep acting directly in the best interests of their opponent because they have completely and wholeheartedly lost every aspect of direction and sense of purpose beyond the thin vaneer of identity machined out of what their sponsors want them to say.

> DISTILLING POST INTO VIDEO FORMAT ...

...

...

COMPLETE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRp1CK_X_Yw

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.
https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/862407300413362179

So, between this census info and exit polls, minority turnout was down ('even' at best), and minorities voted for Trump more than they did Romney.

Old news by this point, but man, that strategy didn't work.

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

A Wizard of Goatse posted:

don't know what you're talking about clearly that taco bowl bit was just a risky gambit that paid off

"He said he loves Hispanics....the media has lied to me..."

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

phasmid posted:

I didn't keep a list. IIRC anybody could join and get paid for going around and toeing the line. There was always a signature aggression, a certain kind of tack. Maybe I'm wrong and they were just more angry posters spilling over fron D&D. But considering that it was going on on other forums in a near identical fashion, I think it possible there was direct action from the propaganda arm (which is basically what correct the record was) of the Clinton campaign. Lots of people got called out for being from ctr right here in GBS and in CSPAM.

Just as a note, there's a Hillary supporter equivalent to this, that anybody tweeting pro-Trump stuff is (obviously) a Russian bot. And they can similarly point to Russia's giant online operation and their admitted trolling.

The true horror is, there's a lot of people in this world, and a lot of them have dumb opinions, and that's probably most of the people who disagree with you on line no matter what.

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

fruit on the bottom posted:

Some things are universal across political lines.

These are usually the worst, most embarrassing things.

The Landstander fucked around with this message at 01:05 on May 12, 2017

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.
It's easy to not know about, but there is still is a rabid pro-Hillary #Resistance Twitter presence which hates Bernie.

Start with one of the dumbest people on Daily Kos, look at the replies, and jump into another world:
https://twitter.com/armandodkos/status/863140602501902337

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.
Keep in mind that Kaine was selected right around the same time this Chuck Schumer quote was made:

quote:

For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin
Kaine makes sense if this + Trump unacceptable is the (bad) plan.

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

Accretionist posted:

Yeah. There's a lot of HIll Folk on another message board I use. The personality cult is real and it's vaguely totalitarian.
"I am a strong, passionate, fierce believer in...whatever it is the Clintons have deemed politically convenient at this time"

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

new phone who dis posted:

Twitter is fun to watch but heaven help you if you post there.
The correct way to use political Twitter is to follow a wide swath of people from the whole political spectrum, including ones you dislike, and gradually realize that 90% of online controversies are functionally the exact same thing with the roles switched around.

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

pushpins posted:

You should only follow Da Share z0ne and nothing else

dasharez0ne and the Wendy's twitter getting into a fight was peak Twitter

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

A Wizard of Goatse posted:

'virtue signaling' is what you say when you can't spell 'sanctimony', p sure
Yeah it basically means this.

I think it's a real phenomenon to a point, but as mentioned, there's a bit of a inkblot test element to it, since it's hard to discern from "people expressing their beliefs".

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

Il Federale posted:

wtf why

didnt he go out of his way to defend bain capital in 2012?

Yeah. At the end he compares the Bain Capital ads that Obama ran to Reverend Wright attacks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXpALlY4SVU

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

Groovelord Neato posted:

lol i still can't imagine how she thought that was a valid defense.
Well,

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.
Speaking of Corbyn I think this thread might appreciate how baller he was at getting out the youth vote:


Alternatively, maybe this shows that the UK still has some serious problems with misogyny, as the youth found it impossible to vote for a woman.

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The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

I'VE NEVER MET YOU

PROBABLY WON'T NOW

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