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chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Gray gray blue gray

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chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Spudd posted:

But Genji sucks and *fart noises to infinity*

I mean Genji does suck, he just might also be a strong hero.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Dugong posted:

Hey Blizzard the bundles sound cool but splitting them by role probably isn't going to solve the quick match assassin fest

There is nothing that can solve that.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

I have yet to play Hanamura. Is it still the worst map?

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Boz0r posted:

Is the Probe dude any good/fun? I like playing Zagara, and it seems similar.

Probius doesn't have much in common with Zagara beyond plopping junk on the map and pushing lanes, but their skills are very different. It can be fun if you like the shock combo, but is hard to get results with and has some lame talents. It can push a lane like crazy if left alone, though.

I'd maybe say that in terms of play style it's more like Chromie with much shorter range, but nobody is really that similar to Probius.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Macaluso posted:

I would like to not play Towers of Doom for once please thank you

I see you are not a fan of Good Maps.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Macaluso posted:

I actually love that map, it's just it's been almost exclusively that and some Hanamura thrown in the past several days

My apologies for disparaging your excellent tastes then. Towers of doom is my favorite. Not too big and the map event is well paced with a valuable boss.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

To be fair, playing around Valeera is pretty unfun if you're not someone with an easy way to reveal her.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Valeera was okay for a stealth character. I'm not personally a fan of the unrevealable mechanic and would have gone after that before hitting her damage, but eh. The real dumb stealth character who needs to be sent back to the drawing board is Nova since the only thing she really has is damage, and she needs more to her than just that.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:

I played a lot of Nova in beta, and back then her deal was she could absolutely devastate individuals, but the tradeoff was that she had no laning ability and no ability to hold objectives. Did this change, because I constantly see pubby Novas trying to do both of those things.

Well now she can't really take out inidividuals, so that just leaves the other two.

Nova is not a well thought out character.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Alarak is fun but boy howdy does he have some boring rear end talents.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

The way to play around stealth characters when strong detection isn't an option is typically more passive which is boring and lame and something games generally try to avoid.

Plus the actual hard counters tend to render stealth characters nearly useless because of how much they sacrifice to have it (see Sombra and Nova). Basically it's debatable whether stealth is worthwhile as a mechanic in the first place, and it definitely needs more thought when it is added than it is typically given.

chumbler fucked around with this message at 17:39 on May 1, 2017

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

We all signed the acknowledgment that mobas are the worst genre when we started.

Also yeah, QM saves 10 minutes of drafting time with the guy who's tilted after the first pick.

chumbler fucked around with this message at 20:09 on May 1, 2017

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

AttackBacon posted:

Honestly this (with my slight edit). I think a large part of the appeal of these games is how they distill down basic game tropes. Every game I can execute a different "power fantasy", with the standard rpg progression loop compressed down to about half an hour. I get to make build choices, progress my character, and optimize my own gameplay. It's just an inconvenient fact that I have to do it in the framework of a 5v5 competitive game instead of something like a hero defense. Why no one has executed a proper PvE mode in these games is an absolute mystery to me and I suspect it would be wildly popular. The few data points I have seen in LoL and HotS have the vsAi game modes being extremely populated, even if you adjust for leveling bots.

That being said, that's not the only reason that I personally play. I'm extremely competitive but at this point in my life don't have the time to practice the mechanics I'd need to compete in an FPS or fighting game, so I derp around in MOBA's because the mechanical floor is so much lower. However if you aren't playing with friends (good friends that you can shoot the poo poo with and that won't rage or cause you to rage), the PvP in these games is often incredibly infuriating. As a result I just play a lot of vs Ai in HotS and League (even those CoOp in LoL is total garbage compared to HotS) and I just put in the bare minimum of effort to hit the ranked tiers that get me rewards.

Warcraft 3 back in the day had tons of (usually bad) rpg maps that were more or less like that. I can't think of any games that have tried to do that besides like Left 4 Dead, though. As you say, it certainly seems like there'd be a market for FARTS mechanics in that sort of format.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Some of the non-crossover skins are alright, but I still wish there were franchise crossover skins for every hero. They've generally been good, though I think Novazon's ults still don't fit the theme.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

There are already too many pandas.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Honestly I don't know wow lore past part of wrath. I just assumed the leader of the pandas would be another panda.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

My Gimmick Name posted:

Last Stand for Dawn of War was pretty dang popular. From what I understand it was a small PvE moba.

I totally forgot about that, but yeah that was a decent example. I think the way around having a pve version that is more or less solved would be having characters with a lot more build variety and an AI director of some sort to introduce some unpredictability. You wouldn't want to do just a circular arena or lane defense with the same waves every time. I'd see it more as a 30 minute dungeon crawl type of thing with a very accelerated leveling curve, and the boss being something like Cho'Gall or a team of heroes. So basically just co-op speed Diablo.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Someone tell me how to Alarak. I enjoy playing him, but I have trouble getting any results from him. Like he seems like he can sort of be treated like Thrall maybe, but I can't find that right mix.

chumbler fucked around with this message at 04:12 on May 2, 2017

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Bloody Pom posted:

Tried Nova a few times and I can definitely understand the dislike, she just doesn't contribute anything and she can't even gank well.

To be fair, this is accurate to most video game snipers.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

What did Andariel do? I remember a poison fan and a single target poison that hurt.

Also there's no way they'd make Andariel without a major redesign. Cydaea I think was on the list, though.

Adria from the D3 expansion also had a cool body horrorish design, and Urzael as an artillery mage would be cool and release more Diablo characters is my point here.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Zaodai posted:

And a charge that one shots you.

And someone on the enemy team dies immediately when everyone loads in.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Be careful with Valla, as saying she has a glass jaw would be insulting to glass. I want to say she's like third lowest health in the game not counting Murky/TLV.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Insert name here posted:

Buying and playing Sgt. Hammer when my most played hero is Raynor at 7 games back in HotS1.0 was probably not the wisest move to starting off but man it's all worth it when you get that perfect siege positioning and timing to finish like 3 or 4 enemy heroes as they try to escape

I'm currently saving up to buy the Probe hero someone please tell me why this is a horrible idea tia

If you find Hammer satisfying, get Chromie instead of Probius. Nothing better than landing the long range snipes.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Samuro pro tip: Don't pop your clones out against Sonya. I know it's tempting to smash all your buttons, but don't do it. Don't also then blame the Jaina who could've killed her if you weren't there.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

BrianBoitano posted:

I like that Uther guy haha I hit with a hammer

Blizzard please make a skin for Hammer that fires Uthers.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

I was playing Morales last night and found myself wishing she had some sort of pushing or sieging ability, like a talent to make her grenade leave a gas trail or something. I recall someone said she's on the update list, so I'm hoping they diversify her a bit more rather than just better defensive stuff. Just something to feel like you have a little more control over the match.

Also I need to pick the bus more. It's fun when it works, and the other ult often gets wasted anyway.

chumbler fucked around with this message at 19:44 on May 5, 2017

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Why are we limited to 3 loadout slots?

I say, knowing the answer is that this is Blizzard "We think more than 9 deck slots would be too confusing" Entertainment.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Kyrosiris posted:

I just want a random option. Let me randomize a skin and mount and spray. :(

But then you have no guarantee of color coordination, and that is not acceptable.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Reverend Dr posted:

but there is just something about a MOBA that makes a lot of people just do dumb poo poo when they should know better.

For example, playing a moba.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

CDW posted:

Yeah, and this definitely seems like what Blizzard is pushing as well.

Lucio, Uther, Auriel, Tassadar, Lili, and Tyrande are all supports you'd rather see paired with another one of these, or a support that isn't one of these. I guess you could also include Medivh and even Zarya with this.

I honestly wonder if Varian's Mortal Strike debuff could help counter this, I think that is unique to only him and Uther's Devotion buff makes that kind of a moot point as well. He could also obviously go anti Shield if there is enough of that on the other team. This also should boost ways to try and lock down healers to burst someone down, meaning more Zeratul/Sylvanas/ETC/Malfurion ults, and more Uther bubble/Tyrael ults to compensate.

The double warrior meta may be shifting out in the next few months, depends on what Dva and whatever is after her does. I know they are looking at reworking Morales as well.

Mortal strike debuff as a way to counter healing is always the worst fix to it.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Healers: Not even once.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Yeah the "Nobody plays support because they want MLG pro kda" argument is usually not true. Nobody wants to play support because it means losing a ton of ability to influence the outcome of the game due to how narrowly supports are typically made.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Coolness Averted posted:

I like the idea of different support characters having different niches, which for some is "strong heals and damage mitigation, but little other contribution" The whole "Make them all Tyrande or Tassadar" school of thought would make me stop playing support. I'll also admit I never play Morales unless I'm in enough of a stack that I know I'm not going to be soloing a lane.

It's deceptive to say the heal focused supports don't influence the game. I mean they rarely are the flashy playmaker, but Morales keeping say a hammer up and out of your range or making sure the fight dragged on until you ran out of mana IS a strong impact.
The whole "Make it more rare/costly" argument some bring up also leans towards the making the real source of healing the ults which is boring. I like being able to choose my ult, not always taking the heal just in case. Which with a solo support is almost always what you take because no random pub takes their survival talents if there's a support.

When we say they don't influence the game it is meant in a very direct sense. Obviously healing influences a fight, but it's not really control in any way. There is very little a Morales can do to directly affect what is happening in the game like clearing minion waves or mercs, and she contributes near zero damage or ability to reveal (outside of a talent). That being said, Morales is basically the worst case example for this and was a dumb idea, which they seem to recognize. The rest of the supports aren't in her position, and the double or triple support team is a somewhat unrelated issue.

Long story short, dedicated or close to it healers are always a bad idea and should never be added to games.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Basically forcing Varian to go tank is kind of a lovely fix as well. Best solution might be to nerf tank Varian.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

D.Va looks cool and it would be cool if they ported at least big shot to Overwatch. That being said, on paper big shot looks like the weaker of the two since it seems like you'd spend more time in the mech, but maybe it'll have high damage, who knows.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

exquisite tea posted:

Just a few games screwing around with D.Va but Bunny Hop is really good and combined with her D-Matrix talents that increase duration + give it a slowing effect she is basically impossible to retreat from.

I've been trying to think of times you wouldn't want bunny hop and about all I've got is big shot might be better for mines, hanamura, and maaaaybe spider queen. Big mobile aoe slow and damage is just too valuable compared to faster mech cooldown, unless big shot's damage is really high.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Elysium posted:

Still want Sgt. Hammer skin that is just her walking around the battlefield with a Bazooka. Siege is she sets it on the ground like a mortar launcher. W is she swings the Bazooka, Z is she jumps on it and rockets away.

This is very good and now I want it too. Or give her marine or marauder armor or something.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Varian can eat a thousand dicks.

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chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Gustav posted:

I'll be real surprised if next map isn't another Overwatch map, but goddamn Naxx map would be awesome.

Come to think of it, is there even a strictly WC3 themed map?

It'll be CTF on Warsong Gulch.

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