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Let's assume for a moment, friends, that some of the rumors about Trump and Russian involvement are false or partially a deliberate attempt by the Russians to sew mistrust in government. He's still terrible in a way that is sorta mindblowing for me. He's the worst president I've ever experienced, and save the invention of pills that cure narcissistic personality disorder and senile dementia, it looks a lock to be one of the bottom presidents in history. So I was gonna make a thread for arguing about who was the worst president, but I thought even the bad presidents your Buchanans, your Pierces, your Johnson the Firsts, it's *still not bad enough.* So feel free to compare Trump to crazy popes, Roman Emperors who thought they were Hercules, demented kings, Chinese Emperors who shat themselves, Ottoman rulers who were only fit to sit on, etc. Collateral Damage posted:I'm pretty sure the objectively worst president was Harrison who managed to give himself pneumonia during the inauguration and die less than a month into his term. mlmp08 posted:His death did less damage to the nation than some other presidents' lives did. Mortabis posted:no, worst president is a tie between Jackson and FDR. No contest. (Best was Coolidge) mlmp08 posted:FDR is pretty cool, man. MikeCrotch posted:Hahahahahahahaha How The gently caress Is Pneumonia Real Hahahaha Nigga Put On A Coat Like Nigga Just Go Inside Haha bewbies posted:what Nebakenezzer posted:I have to suggest Johnson (the first) to displace Grant, or maybe Taylor (or is it Tyler, always get those names confused.) Harrison's VP and subsequently President who's views on states rights caused him to constantly veto legeslation from his own party? If I remember correctly at one point his entire cabinet came into his office and quit? Nebakenezzer has issued a correction as of 22:20 on May 16, 2017 |
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May 16, 2017 22:14
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So I know the argument for FDR is that he overstepped his boundaries and the Japanese internment. My question for him is what makes the rest of his policies bad enough to declare him "the worst president ever".
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May 16, 2017 22:59
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chitoryu12 posted:So I know the argument for FDR is that he overstepped his boundaries and the Japanese internment. Libertarians and other associated dumbasses sometimes twist themselves into knots trying to prove that the New Deal actually made the Depression worse and/or caused it to begin with, so maybe that? Oh, and he did lead the country into fighting fascism, which many right wingers now think was a mistake.
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May 16, 2017 23:01
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Libertarians and other associated dumbasses sometimes twist themselves into knots trying to prove that the New Deal actually made the Depression worse and/or caused it to begin with, so maybe that? I'd love their justification for how the New Deal started the Great Depression in 1933, 4 years after a gigantic banking crash.
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May 16, 2017 23:11
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chitoryu12 posted:I'd love their justification for how the New Deal started the Great Depression in 1933, 4 years after a gigantic banking crash. They usually claim that 1929 - 33 was just a slightly worse than usual market correction/bubble pop, and only became a full on depression when (((Big Government))) intervened and stole all the gold, etc. Mises.org has a number of articles on this, though I'm having trouble finding the one I'm thinking of that claims it was the actual cause of the Great Depression.
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May 16, 2017 23:20
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grant was a good president and if you think he was bad you're just buying into lost causer bullshit
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May 16, 2017 23:26
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Badger of Basra posted:grant was a good president and if you think he was bad you're just buying into lost causer bullshit Well, he wasn't as bad a president as he's usually portrayed by Confederate apologists, I'll give you that much.
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May 16, 2017 23:27
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President's still probably the thing he did worst at though, other than possibly social drinker (alcoholism was not uncommon in the frontier US army prewar, it was just about the only thing to do).
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May 16, 2017 23:31
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chitoryu12 posted:I'd love their justification for how the New Deal started the Great Depression in 1933, 4 years after a gigantic banking crash. New Deal didn't start the great depression. Consensus among economists for ~40+ years has been that the great depression was caused by deflationary monetary policy, namely, the bank of France and the federal reserve buying up gold. (Scott Sumner has a very good book on this.) The stock market crash was a symptom, not a cause of the Great Depression. C.f. other stock market crashes (mid-80s for example) that didn't cause a depression. The problem with the new deal is the permanent expansion of the federal bureaucracy and regulatory state. I'm not a libertarian so I'm not fully familiar with their arguments about it. FDR had a number of excesses beyond just internment of Japanese. At no point did he really believe in limits to his own authority. He tried to pack the supreme court. He ran for office four times. He was constantly pushing against the boundaries of federal power in the constitution. He enabled J. Edgar Hoover's abuses of the FBI. And so on. The case against Jackson is pretty straight forward: trail of tears, getting rid of the national bank.
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May 16, 2017 23:34
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Badger of Basra posted:grant was a good president and if you think he was bad you're just buying into lost causer bullshit
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May 16, 2017 23:37
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Oh yeah, leaders currently in power that are worse than Trump (incomplete and unsorted list)
Off the top of my head.
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May 16, 2017 23:42
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Mortabis posted:At no point did he really believe in limits to his own authority. He tried to pack the supreme court. He ran for office four times. He was constantly pushing against the boundaries of federal power in the constitution. He enabled J. Edgar Hoover's abuses of the FBI. And so on.
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May 16, 2017 23:52
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Mortabis posted:New Deal didn't start the great depression. Consensus among economists for ~40+ years has been that the great depression was caused by deflationary monetary policy, namely, the bank of France and the federal reserve buying up gold. (Scott Sumner has a very good book on this.) The stock market crash was a symptom, not a cause of the Great Depression. C.f. other stock market crashes (mid-80s for example) that didn't cause a depression. The problem with the new deal is the permanent expansion of the federal bureaucracy and regulatory state. What negative policies did FDR implement as a result of overstepping his official authority?
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May 16, 2017 23:53
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chitoryu12 posted:I'd love their justification for how the New Deal started the Great Depression in 1933, 4 years after a gigantic banking crash.  
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May 17, 2017 00:04
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'Overstepping his authority ' is bullshit-ese for 'he had a backbone and didn't cave'. Nothing that FDR did was without historical precedent, and complaining about 'packing the supreme court ' is just crocodile tears from people who, today, throw support behind politicians who gerrymander districts. Its only under handed politics when your opponent does it, when right wing politicians do it, well, that's totally justified. If the democrats if today had the same willingness to 'overstep their authority ' (Like the GOP of today does), we wouldn't be in this mess.
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May 17, 2017 00:26
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Mortabis posted:Oh yeah, leaders currently in power that are worse than Trump (incomplete and unsorted list) please tell us what evo morales has done that makes him so bad.
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May 17, 2017 00:29
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Thanos
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May 17, 2017 01:00
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Mortabis posted:The case against Jackson is pretty straight forward: trail of tears, getting rid of the national bank. I don't think anybody gonna disagree with you that Jackson was bad. I was gonna ask you about if you thought he was better than Buchanan (sided with the south over the nation he was president of) or Franklin Pierce the lessor (there is no greater) but your top pick is Coolidge, so I'm thinking you are assessing these dudes as the less they do, the better. Maybe William Harry Henderson has finally found a defender? I've sorta lead you into the lion's den here, so I'm not gonna make a federal case out of it, but you do realize that when historians play the game of top Presidents, it's always Lincoln, Washington, FDR, right? Even Reagan was a huge admirer of FDR, even if he disagreed with the turn that politics took. Badger of Basra posted:grant was a good president and if you think he was bad you're just buying into lost causer bullshit US Grant was a fuckin' awesome dude and a great American but I think he made a poor President. Nixon in contrast was a pretty good president but was a weird neurotic dude I can't pick the worst President, as the ones at the bottom are all contestants on a reality game show, they all disgust me for different reasons. Tyler stood by his dumb, dumb principles and was soon reviled by everyone, Johnson went crazy and started trying to befriend the white house mice, Harding was like GW Bush a guy who embodied the peter principle and who's corrupt underlings were trying to sell the oil reserve of the Navy. Pierce had the midas touch in reverse: everything turned to poo poo.
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May 17, 2017 02:01
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President Mike Pence
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May 17, 2017 03:10
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chitoryu12 posted:So I know the argument for FDR is that he overstepped his boundaries and the Japanese internment. New deal staved off the proletarian uprising that would've totally instituted Full Communism Now.
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May 17, 2017 04:05
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if we're judging presidents by how much damage they did to Full Communism Now, wilson was probably the worst
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May 17, 2017 04:17
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I recall hearing on Hardcore History that Woodrow Wilson almost locked up tens of thousands of socialists in Chicago or something into some type of camp. Memory is a little fuzzy.
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May 17, 2017 04:30
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punk rebel ecks posted:I recall hearing on Hardcore History that Woodrow Wilson almost locked up tens of thousands of socialists in Chicago or something into some type of camp. Memory is a little fuzzy. Wilson was an extremely poo poo president, yes.
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May 17, 2017 04:38
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Could people elaborate what makes Wilson so lovely besides the proposed socialist camp. I looked him up on Google but all the criticisms I see come from the far right.
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May 17, 2017 04:41
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punk rebel ecks posted:Could people elaborate what makes Wilson so lovely besides the proposed socialist camp. I looked him up on Google but all the criticisms I see come from the far right. He was a staggering racist, for one. Dude screened "Birth of a Nation" in the White House, and called it "history writ with lightning," and that it was terrible that it was all so very true. On the action side, he also went out of his way to keep black people out of the civil service and segregate any who'd managed to get jobs within it previously.
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May 17, 2017 04:45
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punk rebel ecks posted:Could people elaborate what makes Wilson so lovely besides the proposed socialist camp. I looked him up on Google but all the criticisms I see come from the far right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition_Act_of_1918
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May 17, 2017 05:10
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Dude screened "Birth of a Nation" in the White House, and called it "history writ with lightning," and that it was terrible that it was all so very true This bit didn't actually happen, it was made up by the film's publicists. Doesn't make Wilson any less staggeringly racist though. Wilson also repeatedly and specifically forbade the Army and Navy to make any sort of contingency preparations in case the USA became a belligerent in the First World War and famously campaigned on his maintaining of America's neutrality. Then he jumped into the war with both feet a few weeks after his second inauguration with the country completely unprepared to actually fight the drat war. Vincent Van Goatse has issued a correction as of 05:29 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 05:26
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Badger of Basra posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917 This reminds me of when the Federalist Party put in forth laws saying it was illegal to criticize the government.
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May 17, 2017 05:33
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theresa may is about as bad as trump but the british political system is going to keep the tories there for longer than a trump-led GOP the post of current leaders worse than trump is missing Duterte, who is what trump would strive to be if a 200+ year old political system of checks and balance weren't holding him down
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May 17, 2017 07:17
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get that OUT of my face posted:theresa may is about as bad as trump but the british political system is going to keep the tories there for longer than a trump-led GOP I was under the impression that the Filipino government was designed around the United States political system. Then again I go this information from a Vice documentary...
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May 17, 2017 07:23
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definitely maduro
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May 17, 2017 07:25
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punk rebel ecks posted:I was under the impression that the Filipino government was designed around the United States political system. Then again I go this information from a Vice documentary...
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May 17, 2017 07:27
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get that OUT of my face posted:especially in the legislature where its members don't really stick with one political party and ride the wave of popular sentiment
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May 17, 2017 07:38
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May 17, 2017 07:44
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punk rebel ecks posted:What prevents this from happening in the U.S.? Serious question.
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May 17, 2017 07:48
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get that OUT of my face posted:also their presidential election system is terrible because you can get far short of 50% between a few candidates and still win outright, as duterte did
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May 17, 2017 07:53
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chitoryu12 posted:So I know the argument for FDR is that he overstepped his boundaries and the Japanese internment. FDR should have become a communist dictator for real
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May 17, 2017 11:27
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get that OUT of my face posted:theresa may is about as bad as trump but the british political system is going to keep the tories there for longer than a trump-led GOP Trump would doubtlessly be as bad as Duterte or Putin if he didn't have the restrictions that the American government puts on the president.
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May 17, 2017 11:46
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logikv9 posted:definitely maduro Open your hair.
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May 17, 2017 13:16
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Putin is a monster but if you take a completely nihilistic view of foreign and domestic politics then you can make the case that he has rebuilt a country that was on the verge of collapse when he took power. Trump by contrast is gonna leave America a lot worse for wear by the time he's done. I think Erdogan or Maduro would top the list of national leaders who are even worse for their respective countrys than the Donald. Helsing has issued a correction as of 14:42 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 14:37
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