|
What is the best flav... you all know what this question is: This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| Labour |
|
907 | 49.92% |
| Theresa May Team (Conservative) |
|
48 | 2.64% |
| Liberal Democrats |
|
31 | 1.71% |
| UKIP |
|
13 | 0.72% |
| Plaid Cymru |
|
25 | 1.38% |
| Green |
|
22 | 1.21% |
| Scottish Socialist Party |
|
12 | 0.66% |
| Scottish Conservative Party |
|
1 | 0.06% |
| Scottish National Party |
|
59 | 3.25% |
| Some Kind of Irish Unionist |
|
4 | 0.22% |
| Alliance / Irish Nonsectarian |
|
3 | 0.17% |
| Some Kind of Irish Nationalist |
|
36 | 1.98% |
| Misc. Far Left Trots |
|
35 | 1.93% |
| Misc. Far Right Fash |
|
8 | 0.44% |
| Monster Raving Loony |
|
49 | 2.70% |
| Space Navies Party |
|
39 | 2.15% |
| Independent / Single Issue |
|
2 | 0.11% |
| Can't Vote |
|
188 | 10.35% |
| Won't Vote |
|
8 | 0.44% |
| Spoiled Ballot |
|
15 | 0.83% |
| Pissflaps |
|
312 | 17.17% |
| Total: | 1817 votes | ||
|
ISeeCuckedPeople posted:
it wasn't, that is literally the whole discussion of british politics in 2017 not involving brexit.
|
#
¿
Jun 1, 2017 02:06
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 6, 2024 22:19 |
|
|
the republicans have that religious bent which gives them a socially regressive stance that's only really matched by specific individuals, like most tories, or tim farron
|
|
#
¿
Jun 1, 2017 02:14
|
|
|
ISeeCuckedPeople posted:
Our secret services were russian spies for the entire cold war
|
|
#
¿
Jun 1, 2017 02:29
|
|
|
Entropy238 posted:Just to be clear, I did say if tangible evidence was available - I haven't stated I believe that it actually exists. the result doesn't matter. It never meant anything. Article 50 has been triggered, and it would be nearly impossible to establish a democratic consensus to reverse this within two years.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 1, 2017 16:27
|
|
|
jBrereton posted:Article 50 cannot be untriggered as written. it can't, but the EU were until very recently extremely amenable to giving leeway to a legal article they didn't expect or want to ever be used
|
|
#
¿
Jun 1, 2017 16:50
|
|
|
vodkat posted:Funny how the UK isn't important enough for the ruskies to hack our emails. the french dumps were on voting day and anyone involved enough to arrange a hack will know how short the UK political cycle is. If there's going to be a hack, it'll be on the 7th or 8th. The odds of Russia actually caring or devoting major resources aren't too high.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 1, 2017 16:53
|
|
|
kustomkarkommando posted:Brexit is happening, realign your epistemes. it'd be interesting to see if the EU decide to care about strictly interpreting rules towards the UK, I can't imagine corporate infrastructure competition is too high on the agenda tbh. Although Germany get a shitload of money from the trains, don't they?
|
|
#
¿
Jun 1, 2017 16:56
|
|
|
there's absolutely nothing wrong with underhanded tactics against right wing political or propaganda outlets sorry but don't be a bunch of fuckwits who want to run the country as a hellscape
|
|
#
¿
Jun 2, 2017 19:33
|
|
|
Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:Violence should not be used on either side the consequences of saying things can include violence. You don't get to be protected from that. That's not a slippery slope, free speech was literally never implemented to be what you appear to want it to be. Nor should it be. The government can't round you up for saying dumb poo poo. That's it. That's all it should be.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 2, 2017 19:59
|
|
|
Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:Both sides are wrong as they both seek to curtail my freedom the thing is you can't actually say this and not get called on it because you transparently don't have a clue
|
|
#
¿
Jun 2, 2017 20:11
|
|
|
ronya posted:. focus groups mainly ridicule the man. has it really been long enough that you've felt safe to revert to focus grouping an election as a good thing
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2017 14:02
|
|
|
if we're being realistic then yeah the IRA claims will have hit home for a fair few voters, especially since it's the door to door goto. Whether that effect will actually transfer votes to the tories isn't yet known. But it's kinda hard to argue that his reputation is incredibly solid given that the best Crosby can throw at him includes giving media coverage to dating site registration
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2017 14:09
|
|
|
The issue again is why do the british public dislike corbyn, and whether these descrepancies are something the Labour party need to fix. There is no need for the entire party to lurch rightward, or far left, to justify the day to day reactions to a guy they don't want to keep around e; to say the Labour party has absolutely no reason to stick its own political dick into any debate about the IRA when Corbyn is actually capable of taking flak endlessly without turning into a gurning android like May
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2017 14:11
|
|
|
hell if jeremy corbyn binded Labour into an eternal agreement to pursue full anime communism I'm entirely willing to bet they could play a leftist as a centrist reform candidate afterwards. The public is getting burnt on the old communism man thing.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2017 14:14
|
|
|
Mr. Flunchy posted:If there was a hypothetical Labour/SNP coalition, is it to be taken for granted that the SNP would demand a guaranteed Indyref 2? Don't they already have this from the tories? Pre-election the debate was about whether May would try to stall until after Brexit, which would make Scotland being in the wilderness wrt EU much more likely Raeg posted:The problem for Big Nicky Fish is a Labour government, particularly one under Corbyn, makes Independence a lot less likely and I think she's tactical enough to know that. They've already said they would support Corbyn's labour, presumably to bash anyone thinking of a corbyn-motivated Scotlab vote (lol) in the head. I think she's tactical enough to know that jeremy corbyn's going to raise the poo poo out of taxes so she'll have money to spend without needing to be the person raising taxes. That's free political capital, too.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2017 14:48
|
|
|
Gyro Zeppeli posted:I'm surprised you didn't tear something reaching that far, holy poo poo. What does that analogy even mean?! I'm going to guess it means "utterly discredit them as a political party and take back all their seats"
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2017 15:25
|
|
|
Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:seems legit I really can't stand dirty poo poo like this. "here are some bigger numbers, please forget we've somehow broken each of these services while apparently spending more". It's meaningless.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2017 15:32
|
|
|
ronya posted:well - in the UK the failure of vote secrecy was traditionally used by landlords on tenants. you could voluntarily give up proof. or you could pay more rent. y'know, your choice. the best response is putting landlords that do that inside for life and seizing their assets because they've attempted to use capital to directly manipulate people
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2017 17:13
|
|
|
jabby posted:Pretty sure they weren't this wrong, and most of them predicted something close to each other. Now you have 9 point differences between pollsters. Mandelson still owes us him eating a hat, it was pretty jaw-dropping
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2017 18:22
|
|
|
it was paddy after all I think that holds the point that the polls were suggesting it was a close race for the hung parliament plurality, and then the tories somehow found a majority pretty sure I remember many in the thread pointing out that tory complacency was going to do for them right there and then, too. A better call than the polsters made.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2017 18:33
|
|
|
ronya posted:there's also item (d), but that lands banksy in trouble rather than the voter or the vote so "Banksy arrested for calling young to vote against tory" is being completely ignored as the possible motivation for a performance artist here?
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2017 18:34
|
|
|
ronya posted:then why the ineffectual disclaimer though I'm not saying he's playing nth dimensional chess and is actively trying to be incarcerated for something dumb as gently caress, I'm saying that's kinda the risk of anything provocative and if there was any contact with a lawyer at all then it's probably going to have come up that the artist is the one in the poo poo, not those who are going to actually be sending vote selfies namesake posted:Since it would presumably reveal who Banksy is that's probably not the angle. it's not Gunningham?
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2017 18:42
|
|
|
Hoops posted:What's with the "BBC presenter tries to..." angle? The tweet comes off like it's celebrating Paul Mason winning an argument, but a) she was quoting what Amber Rudd as a discursive point, it didn't seem to me like she was pushing any agenda at all, and b) Paul Mason was a BBC journalist for like 10 years, he only moved to Channel 4 a few years ago. it's bollocks impartial journalists should not only be able but be required to not present utter bollocks as a legitimate point Hoops posted:Two professional journalists, not party politicians, who were almost certainly colleagues for years, on a discussion panel, going over party claims, during election season. That's how these conversations work. Anyone who reads that as the renegade Mason owning the biased MSM doesn't understand what they're looking at. you're right on this tho
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2017 19:17
|
|
|
ISeeCuckedPeople posted:The reality is extreme leftist revolutionary policies involving taking on the established vested elite has never ever loving worked and always made things worse for everyone involved; from China to the USSR to Brazil to Bolivia, Venezuela, Cuba and beyond. the reality is you are woefully undereducated on the issue and your hot take is worthless thanks
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2017 20:37
|
|
|
ronya posted:it's essays like that which doom their authors to being roundly bashed for being insufficiently revolutionary once they stumble at the ballot box Mason's hardly going to have any politically naive disaffecteds rounding him up imo, I think the bloodbath would occur if Labour actually win, which would lead to one hell of a What Now problem for campaigners. ISeeCuckedPeople posted:I am quiet well educated on the issue I grew up in South America in a country in the middle of a civil war between right wing deathsquads and communist guerrilas and one of the most complex political scenes on earth. If your argument is "everything everywhere is poo poo now" and you think this is somehow condemning of leftist politics and the history of their governments then lol
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2017 20:40
|
|
|
ISeeCuckedPeople posted:That's not my argument. My argument is that extreme forms of leftism cause tension, possibly war, and make things worse for everyone. You only have to look at Venezuela, which was historically one of the richest countries on earth and now people are dying in the streets. Venezuala's problem is not leftism and you cannot in good faith acknowledge the complexity of south america wrt bourgeoise influence and then say "well oil got hosed and a recession happened, this was The Left". Who the gently caress do you think made the place wealthy? Venture capitalists? You only need to look at welfare standards and quality of life and notice the really loving extreme bent towards leftist influence, social democracy, welfare and marxist thought correlating with higher standards and, by those metrics, a better world. Murderous yanks don't somehow dismiss the nature of the fact they were poo poo scared because socialism was working and popular You have assumed a whole set of cultural and intellectual biases upon your audience when you expect them to "know what you mean". You haven't defined jack, you've cited the left as a source of political instability and not the inevitable result. You haven't given me terms to respond here; I just don't agree with you that socialism somehow causes wars and death camps. You're going to need a better argument for a lot of the thread, too. I'd say the leftist projects in Colombia, Venezuala and Chile alone, during their successes, demonstrate the inherent inclusive drive to provide a better world for all that is the nature of leftist thought. You might feel that "all the good ones got murdered and America'd" is a copout, I'm saying it's an effect produced by the inherent threat of socialism.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2017 20:52
|
|
|
I really wish student unions had a coordinated response to high voter registration (and credibility in general) because shock wins in Sheff Hallam, Cornwall and the home county uni towns aren't going to add up to a majorityRaeg posted:People are replying saying they can't see that figure. brexit was 63% if that helps
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2017 21:24
|
|
|
Jose posted:student unions and everone else involved in student politics deserve dissolving in a vat of acid imagine if they'd bothered to do anything about a general election and coordianted to win at least one "away" seat unexpectedly they could live off that for years
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2017 21:28
|
|
|
it's also worth remembering that another 20% of 18-25 turnout is not going to swing the election on its own, nor does knowing that it could be higher really help get useable information out of any models that still looks like a labour win. It's p much massive russia hack or bust, but it's that faint glimmering possibility
|
|
#
¿
Jun 3, 2017 21:34
|
|
|
ronya posted:"british values" talk is not the most obnoxious way the multiculturalism debate could have evolved, really. remember the multiculturalism debate? that used to be a thing, y'know. but the conservatives don't have any of those values. It's a whistle from one pack of dogs to another.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 4, 2017 13:02
|
|
|
ronya posted:the actually-existing four point educational template seems to be I'll agree it's something. I'd say it rather comes across as more a deliberate denial of history than quaint ignorance, but then I've seen Michael Gove talk about these things so I'm biased.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 4, 2017 13:14
|
|
|
Farage is dogwhistling like a madman there but I've read the Pilger article and I definitely have a lot of questions about why the gently caress the bomber managed to dodge arrest and how his involvement in an mi5 affiliated extremist group influenced this if there's 3000 people walking around on a terror list, presumably under control orders, I think the government now need to say how many of them are affiliated with extremist groups funded by britain, how many of them are affiliated with extremist groups funded by countries we send arms to, and how many of them are affiliated with mi5
|
|
#
¿
Jun 4, 2017 17:21
|
|
|
ronya posted:it's a huge shitshow, to borrow a phrase, but is it really unexpected given a Cold War standard of funding anticommunists who turn out to be uncontrollable fascist terrorists that go around bombing critical Western regional partners, or funding antiimperialists who turn out to be uncontrollable ethnonationalists who go around bombing critical Soviet or PRC regional partners? I mean we could always not do these things, and it's very frustrating when those doing it constantly pretend that it's not their fault and get away with it. GaussianCopula posted:I'm sure the police officer or Blue Thunder soldier who wounded the civilian did so because he was careless and not because he was in a very chaotic situation. I think it's safe to assume that the police/soldiers did the best they could to not harm civilians and it's insulting to think that they acted careless. actually it's insulting to ignore the police officers who've spent quite some time saying that they are unable to function properly, and our responses should not look like this, and there is blame to be laid at the government, you horrid nazi little oval office
|
|
#
¿
Jun 4, 2017 17:51
|
|
|
ronya posted:mr 7/10 "actually, I've never approved of the bombings" can gently caress off about his principles, because if you believe that a london politician, any london politician, has principles then I'm going to sell the actual London Bridge to you this is one of those times where your entrenched cynicism is raging at the dying of the light rejoice friend, in the love of corbyn ronya posted:time and coaching could solve this problem. if you ever think Corbyn is a muppet on TV you should contemplate the days when Labour was led by Michael Foot. but does he have the time? do you think coaching matters as much as just how uncoachable the PM is? This was always the conservative's election to lose. The idea labour wouldn't get landslided was laughable two months ago. If it's close he's done as well as he could and I can't see how soundbyte control would've helped. It detracts too much from his character to avoid these attacks that aren't having an impact on his popularity Spangly A fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Jun 4, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Jun 4, 2017 18:41
|
|
|
goddamnedtwisto posted:The 3,000 number comes from a speech by Dame Eliza Mannigham-Buller when she was leaving the role of Director-General of MI5, and refers to the amount of people who were under active investigation by MI5 (and certainly given in the context of "we need a lot more money to do this" so take it with a pinch of salt). As nobody else has ever volunteered a number that's sort of been settled on since then. The 20k number - for those who have been investigated but are not under active investigation - came from the Met after the Westminster attack, and nobody really knows the provenance of it. There can't be serious public debate about what the security services and police are doing with the reactionary rhetoric making GBS threads the whole place up, true. But I think it's getting pretty public interest to ask if mi5 have any other radicalised assets laying about that they aren't able to keep check on, especially since their risk assessment appears to still be based in PREVENT and, in action, total shite.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 4, 2017 18:53
|
|
|
spud posted:Hey something really bad just happened in the UK, I will head over to DnD to see wha........nah......Still not working on reality like ordinary people. we're all pretty mad our PM seems to provide material support for terrorism in exchange for getting a day away from questions on the policies that cause it
|
|
#
¿
Jun 4, 2017 18:56
|
|
|
Skinty McEdger posted:I believe the Met's response with three days notice will be "gently caress the gently caress off." Surely the American services will go "lol nope" anyway.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 4, 2017 19:05
|
|
|
isn't this exactly what paul mason warned about doing although I think the circumstances kinda allow
|
|
#
¿
Jun 4, 2017 19:17
|
|
|
Pollyanna posted:Uh, this seems huge. If I understand correctly, he's saying that the Manchester bomber was part of a group that Theresa May and her party explicitly cultivated in the UK? Isn't that loving massive? no editor in the country will touch it
|
|
#
¿
Jun 4, 2017 20:07
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 6, 2024 22:19 |
|
|
The Insect Court posted:It's not that I disagree with this stance but I do find it an amusing irony that the thread consensus has moved from "It's the fault of our foreign policy, innit?" no it hasn't in fact we're discussing the smoking gun of the bomber's connections to mi5 you horrid little fuckstain
|
|
#
¿
Jun 4, 2017 20:24
|
|
to "They're apocalyptic genocidal cultists who can't be reasoned with, only destroyed!