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joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.
Maybe we could start a pool for when the size of the list of banned current events in the current events thread equals the list of Homeland Security terror threat search terms.

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joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.
Is there any evidence out there to support the theory that Trump had to turn to Russia for investment money because he had burned all his bridges with U.S. sources of money?

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

CHICKEN SHOES posted:

DFAC chicken is about on par with a microwaved banquet tv dinner from 1992 :barf:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-6mI708yWc


Zeris posted:

Not saying that I'm rooting for Russia, but I would kill to see Putin clown on the 71 year old obese man with dementia.

edit: The only thing close to a fair match would be gay chicken

Putin could walk out with a couple straps of $100 bills sticking out of the fly of his trousers.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Reverand maynard posted:

correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there is actually any law that allows news papers to protect their sources

The feds and most of the states have some form of newspaperman's privilege.

e: here's a guide by (U.S.) jurisdiction

joat mon fucked around with this message at 10:37 on Jul 7, 2017

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Reverand maynard posted:

how solid is it though? My understanding is that its more of an unwritten rule than actual laws.
On the federal side, it is "unwritten law," which is to say, common law, which has the same force as written law.
That said, it's not solid, particularly on the Fed side. At best, it's a soft
balancing test between the benefits of a free press and and the ability of the government to investigate crimes.
Again, on the Fed side, the respect given to the privilege has mostly been driven by the unwillingness of the executive to wreck an understanding and relationship with the press that's always more or less worked. If you have an executive that does not know or care how things work and doesn't know or doesn't care that actions have consequences or effects, things can get really ... interesting.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

What's with the flying holes?

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

The [what?] will fly out of the police soon?

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Casimir Radon posted:

In her case it's just plain stupidity. Now if Bannon or Ghorka wrote it you can be sure it was a dogwhistle.

If it was her ignorance, what were the 14 words she actually had in mind?

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.
I guess the 14 word save is,
“Let us all fight like the Poles. For family, freedom, for country, for God.”
http://www.youngcons.com/while-overseas-trump-hails-populist-poland-declares-west-must-defend-civilization-and-faith/?ref=FacebookPost

Which wasn't quite what Trump said,
So, together, let us all fight like the Poles -- for family, for freedom, for country, and for God.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/06/politics/trump-speech-poland-transcript/
Which just makes clearer the intent of the dogwhistle and less plausible the "oh, no, we certainly didn't mean that." (teeheehee)

joat mon fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Jul 7, 2017

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

facialimpediment posted:

I think the intent was to spotlight the notable quotes, but the formatting doesn't work right on mobile (at a minimum). Sort of like when a notable sentence is pulled from a long rant as a preview to the answer in the article.

I mean, it's still a high school paper and a high school website. Sort of jarring to remember that, considering the quality of the interview is so high.

From the 'how we got the interview' article:

quote:

“I’d like to begin by asking some questions directed to our high school audience,” Teddy said. Mattis’ response set the tone for the rest of the interview.

“I speak the same to high schoolers, college grads, or congressmen,” he said. “I’ve found high schoolers to be plenty bright.”

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Mr. Nice! posted:

These emails are actual hard evidence of multiple crimes

Which ones?

accepting/ soliciting aid from foreign nationals?
Neither Jr's release or the NYT article get there.

accepting/ soliciting Russian hacking?
Neither Jr's release or the NYT article get there.

foreign agent registration act?
Neither Jr's release or the NYT article get there.


As for the drug analogy,
according to the NYT article / Jr's release,

:britain: Hey! I've got something that will make you feel good!
:baby: Cool! lets meet, I'll bring some friends!
:ussr: Do you want some ginko biloba? Maybe some four loco!
:baby: uhhh....
:ussr: But what I really want to talk about is my scentsy business!

So far as I can tell, there's nothing out there to contradict Jr.'s account of the meeting.

Not fire, still smoke.

CHICKEN SHOES posted:

am I allowed to get my hopes up this time because uhhhh this seems crazy
No, yes. It's definitely some more quality data points, but not independently actionable.

joat mon fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jul 11, 2017

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

BUG JUG posted:

Reposting this in full for when you go back and edit it.

I would LOVE to be wrong.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

TBeats posted:

Fox News anchor just said this exact thing, and maybe someone can check the accuracy of the claim: "Collusion is not a crime so be that it is not being held in exchange for favors, especially during a political election."

Collusion is not a crime in this context, though it can be in an antitrust context. Regarding 2016's presidential campaign issues, 'collusion' is being used colloquially, not legally.

Collusion is a less culturally and less legally loaded term than conspiracy, which I guess is why its being used.

The solicitation angle comes from Title 52, section 30121 of the U.S. Code which has to do with Contributions and donations by foreign nationals. For trump purposes, there are two different crimes here:

quote:

It shall be unlawful for—
a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make—
(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election; or
(B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or
(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title);
and

quote:

It shall be unlawful for—
a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) [of the above quote] from a foreign national.

Title 11, section 110.20 of the Combined Federal Register (Federal regulations) lays out what definitions are to be used in this context - in this case, at 11 CFR 300.2.

quote:

To solicit. For the purposes of part 300, to solicit means to ask, request, or recommend, explicitly or implicitly, that another person make a contribution, donation, transfer of funds, or otherwise provide anything of value. A solicitation is an oral or written communication that, construed as reasonably understood in the context in which it is made, contains a clear message asking, requesting, or recommending that another person make a contribution, donation, transfer of funds, or otherwise provide anything of value. A solicitation may be made directly or indirectly. The context includes the conduct of persons involved in the communication. A solicitation does not include mere statements of political support or mere guidance as to the applicability of a particular law or regulation.
It goes on to give some guidance and examples:

quote:

(1) The following types of communications constitute solicitations:
(i) A communication that provides a method of making a contribution or donation, regardless of the communication. This includes, but is not limited to, providing a separate card, envelope, or reply device that contains an address to which funds may be sent and allows contributors or donors to indicate the dollar amount of their contribution or donation to the candidate, political committee, or other organization.
(ii) A communication that provides instructions on how or where to send contributions or donations, including providing a phone number specifically dedicated to facilitating the making of contributions or donations. However, a communication does not, in and of itself, satisfy the definition of “to solicit” merely because it includes a mailing address or phone number that is not specifically dedicated to facilitating the making of contributions or donations.
(iii) A communication that identifies a Web address where the Web page displayed is specifically dedicated to facilitating the making of a contribution or donation, or automatically redirects the Internet user to such a page, or exclusively displays a link to such a page. However, a communication does not, in and of itself, satisfy the definition of “to solicit” merely because it includes the address of a Web page that is not specifically dedicated to facilitating the making of a contribution or donation.

(2) The following statements constitute solicitations:
(i) “Please give $100,000 to Group X.”
(ii) “It is important for our State party to receive at least $100,000 from each of you in this election.”
(iii) “Group X has always helped me financially in my elections. Keep them in mind this fall.”
(iv) “X is an effective State party organization; it needs to obtain as many $100,000 donations as possible.”
(v) “Giving $100,000 to Group X would be a very smart idea.”
(vi) “Send all contributions to the following address * * *.”
(vii) “I am not permitted to ask for contributions, but unsolicited contributions will be accepted at the following address * * *.”
(viii) “Group X is having a fundraiser this week; you should go.”
(ix) “You have reached the limit of what you may contribute directly to my campaign, but you can further help my campaign by assisting the State party.”
(x) A candidate hands a potential donor a list of people who have contributed to a group and the amounts of their contributions. The candidate says, “I see you are not on the list.”
(xi) “I will not forget those who contribute at this crucial stage.”
(xii) “The candidate will be very pleased if we can count on you for $10,000.”
(xiii) “Your contribution to this campaign would mean a great deal to the entire party and to me personally.”
(xiv) Candidate says to potential donor: “The money you will help us raise will allow us to communicate our message to the voters through Labor Day.”
(xv) “I appreciate all you've done in the past for our party in this State. Looking ahead, we face some tough elections. I'd be very happy if you could maintain the same level of financial support for our State party this year.”
(xvi) The head of Group X solicits a contribution from a potential donor in the presence of a candidate. The donor asks the candidate if the contribution to Group X would be a good idea and would help the candidate's campaign. The candidate nods affirmatively.

(3) The following statements do not constitute solicitations:
(i) During a policy speech, the candidate says: “Thank you for your support of the Democratic Party.”
(ii) At a ticket-wide rally, the candidate says: “Thank you for your support of my campaign.”
(iii) At a Labor Day rally, the candidate says: “Thank you for your past financial support of the Republican Party.”
(iv) At a GOTV rally, the candidate says: “Thank you for your continuing support.”
(v) At a ticket-wide rally, the candidate says: “It is critical that we support the entire Democratic ticket in November.”
(vi) A Federal officeholder says: “Our Senator has done a great job for us this year. The policies she has vigorously promoted in the Senate have really helped the economy of the State.”
(vii) A candidate says: “Thanks to your contributions we have been able to support our President, Senator and Representative during the past election cycle.”

So, back to 52 USC 30121.
1) No foreign national gave or promised to give Clinton opposition research to Trump or anyone connected to the campaign. Opposition research could be a thing of value that could constitute a donation.

2) No Trump person solicited the opposition research - Goldstone solicited Trump Jr. I don't think Jr. agreeing to a meeting set up by Goldstone can transfer Goldstone's solicitation of Jr. to a solicitation by Jr, but I haven't researched it.

e: for the masochists, further comments on the definition of solicit as used in the contributions and donations by foreign nationals statute. Start at page 69942. Short answer: solicit was meant to be narrowly construed as a specific asking, and not broadly construed as a suggestion. What was envisioned was "a palpable communication intended to, and reasonably understood to, convey a request for some [donation]."

joat mon fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Jul 11, 2017

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

psydude posted:

I think Richard Painter actually does a good job of boiling all of this down:

quote:

“I don’t care if you’re Republican, as I am, or a Democrat. You call the FBI. The last thing you do is go meet with the Russians to try and get the derogatory information," he went on. "They’re only trying do that in order to use you to accomplish some purpose. And we know what that is — it is undermining our system of representative democracy.”


http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/11/donald-trump-jr-treason-buzzword-240406

drat straight.

BTW, that's Richard Painter, GWB's Ethics Lawyer. :irony: (maybe not in 2017)

quote:

In the Bush administration we could have had him in custody for questioning by now.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

CHICKEN SHOES posted:

sorry for a tweet but I dont care if this was the most ~liberal president~ or anything this poo poo just makes me mad and freaks me the gently caress out

https://twitter.com/JohnnieM/status/884942560439009281

If it's any consolation, it probably freaked Trump out, too.
Interestingly, I'd imagine his narcissism provided the framework to process it pretty quickly.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Nostalgia4Butts posted:

Opinions on Wray? Feinstein announced she's voting for his confirmation

Second tier, but not a bad choice. He said all the right words in his confirmation hearing.
Franken has signaled his support as well.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Two Finger posted:

Does that apply for impeachment?

At least on the federal side, absolutely not.

Two Finger posted:

So if trump Jr goes down for this does that tar retard dad with the same brush?
Goes down politically? Sure, but not in this timeline.
Criminally? It depends on what the additional evidence is that allows them to get Jr. If it also implicates dad in a crime, why not?

joat mon fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Jul 13, 2017

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

pick up the pace posted:

I feel bad for the poor public defender who eventually gets assigned this case

The only lawyers who can't refuse a case.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

MA-Horus posted:

With a 5-alarm hangover.

One of my canoe trip buddies was a public defender down in New Orleans. When I first heard that, I remember saying something like

"Wow, that must be really difficult. How do you deal with the stress from that?"

His answer was pretty blunt.

"I drink a lot, and smoke a lot of weed. We all do."

Being a PD in New Orleans is about as tough as it gets for PDs.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Godholio posted:

Is...is this a real quote? :stare:

From the White House transcript of the conversation.

This was the 'off-the-record' conversation that Trump was upset about because it wasn't mentioned by the press.

e: awaiting word that it will be transparent gold, 12,000 stadia long, and 144 cubits thick.

joat mon fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Jul 13, 2017

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Duzzy Funlop posted:

This is one of the names that rings the biggest of bells, but I couldn't name a single loving movie of his to save my life.

Space 1999 was all I could remember.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

No, he's not fit.
On the other hand, that article is the journalistic equivalent of cotton candy.
(If cotton candy tasted like salt free saltines)

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Smiling Jack posted:

Every case this guy has ever touched is 100% done unless you have other officers as witnesses, and even then the defense is gonna get this guy on the stand an destroy him.


This is pretty much how it ends up working in red flyover county, too.
e: unless the guy pled guilty, then his convictions stands.

joat mon fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Jul 19, 2017

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

TBeats posted:

from Meuller's perspective, does he have a strategy for giving the committee the green light on Jr and Manafort testifying? or is it irrelevant to his case?

Irrelevant unless they plead the 5th and Congress grants them immunity to force them to speak.

Other than that, the more times you can get them to talk is more chances for them to give a slightly different story, which can be prosecuted as making a false statement.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

TBeats posted:

His attorneys are just trying to be well informed of the law!! Like good attorneys. And a president has the right to know all the powers he is afforded!! Nothing to see here :downs:
Given how gob-smackingly ignorant this administration has been about the basic functions of government, I'm willing to give them that.

orange juche posted:

The question though remains, in the eyes of the Supreme Court, is it legal or illegal to pardon yourself as president, and what follow-on effects might occur from such a pardon? Can you be impeached by the Senate for a crime which you pardoned yourself from, seeing as you have judged yourself not guilty?

Also, Donnie Dumbfuck is not most people, the dude is rotten to the core, if there's an angle he can use to get out of something he will use it.
The Constitution specifically says that impeachments cannot be pardoned. (It's the only offense that cannot be pardoned)
A pardon doesn't mean you're not guilty, just that you've been let off the hook by the grace of the president. One of the Supreme Court cases on pardons made the comment that a pardon "carries [with it] an imputation of guilt and acceptance of a confession".
Whether a president can pardon himself is still an open question.

CommieGIR posted:

You still have to be convicted to be pardoned, right?
You don't even have to be charged. (e.g., Nixon)

e:

CommieGIR posted:

Its still basically an admission of guilt.
It's arguably an implicit admission of guilt. Ford certainly felt that way with regard to his pardon of Nixon (but did not condition his pardon on any such admission)

joat mon fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Jul 21, 2017

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Kawasaki Nun posted:

Shouldn't I/P stuff go in probation Honeypot thread with cop shooting and gun rights discussions?

It's perhaps even more of a 'turn off brain, fling poo' trigger than the others.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

How bad is it? So bad that this thoroughly red state for whom oil production is practically the sole industry voluntarily shut down the offending injection wells (after a couple years of denials and scientist silencing a large climate change denial)
It actually worked, pretty much instantly.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

BigDave posted:

Worse, it makes you a Über-Nazi!

Now go strap on this Pepe The Frog mask and threaten to rape female reporters, while screaming 'cuck' every 30 seconds.

But do it ironically in case you get called out for it.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

tastefully arranged labia posted:

Fun fact: having a medical weed card in CA legally makes you a "drug addict" and you will fail the NICS checks when purchasing a firearm. I wonder how that's going to come up when the public dispensaries open next year.

It will still be illegal, just as it has been:

It shall be unlawful for any person—
who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance
to ... possess ... any firearm or ammunition.
18 USC 922(g)(3)

I wouldn't think public dispensaries would require registration, so that would make it harder for the feds to get the evidence that a person is a marijuana user.

Whether it makes any difference will depend on how much effort the feds want to put into it, either on the ATF side or the DEA side.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

not caring here posted:

Probably a little.

I mean, watching poo poo like that is not going to ruin you as a person, but you would probably do better in life not watching it.

Reported for username/post conflict.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Smiling Jack posted:

okay can we stop with the video descriptions please

I think it's nice, the number of people whose 'worst' is a voluntary, abstracted viewing of something on the internet.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Two Finger posted:

If Saturday night massacre part two goes through I hope you are proven wrong.

If the NYT ruminations that genocide tendencies posted come to pass, there won't be a Saturday Night Massacre. I wonder if the GOP would give enough of a crap about Russia to block a recess appointment.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.
Advocating nihilism to deal with political discord is like advocating suicide to deal with emotional or mental discord.
Sure, your body doesn't die, but you and your ilk slowly kill the body politic and leave it bereft of the exact same people it must have in order to improve.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Prop Wash posted:

Where did this insane poo poo about Ukraine come from? I remember some idiot Fox News story about an ethnic Ukraine DNC dude, but it is hilarious that anyone would try and hold one up to the other

next-level conspiracy poo poo: did Russia come up with this to pit Trump against Ukraine, or is this an incredible own goal

An American (an important distinction vis a vis accepting campaign contributions from foreign nationals) from Ukraine. Her name is Chalupa.
I think this article from Politico (from January) was the genesis of the Ukraine angle.


redneck nazgul posted:

It's akin to someone trying to stay in the military to move up to the senior ranks in order to try and correct the institutional failings and poo poo leadership they experience.

Except you're facing a much larger, more diverse population without the common unity of purpose in the oath of enlistment/commissioning.

Oh, and both halves of the population openly call for the death of the other half for being a blight against God/humanity, and neither major party apparatus is concerned with anything but their own pay checks.
There are intermediate steps between full quixotic engagement (which is exhausting) and nihilism.

redneck nazgul posted:

You can keep your optimism about changing the system. I want Mueller to rip this government to shreds so that something approaching reform can be passed. Until then, every new story is nothing but entertainment.
Neither of these two desires are in any way nihilistic. Nor are they contradictory.

joat mon fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Jul 25, 2017

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

That's really good. The next two paragraphs are pretty amazing too, if a bit more niche. The sentiment applies to faith in democratic institutions as well - or perhaps especially, since the impact and effects of those institutions are more concrete and apparent.
It's a good start on looking at the existential dread people have about putting faith and energy into imperfect and fallible institutions - but the alternatives are brainless loyalty (The first kind of loyalty) or nihilism.
But like the first part said; it's ok to take some time off.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.
I've got some questions about whether a Twitter pronouncement is legally binding.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.
I wonder if Mattis has an orange phone dedicated to letting him know immediately what stupid poo poo Trump has done now so he can start trying to unfuck it.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Duzzy Funlop posted:

Is this the guy that aimed at the feds from a bridge and kept saying poo poo like "do I have a green light?", and I have a shot"?

no, this guy is in his 50s.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Two Finger posted:

I want to be clear here because I just woke up. Are the GOP turning on trump?

They're just making sure he won't fire Sessions and appoint Barron as AG while Congress is on vacation.

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joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

facialimpediment posted:

The Mooch: “I’m not Steve Bannon, I’m not trying to suck my own cock."

Direct quote.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/ryan-...teve-bannon/amp

It's like Lord of the Flies and Trump is the Conch.
I guess Spicey was Piggy?


Vasudus posted:

It really is a testament to the strength of the government that we're basically putting this poo poo on cruise control and making a sandwich in the back. Will we flip into a ditch? I dunno, we haven't so far!
Yep.

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