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oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

Barry moved this fast before in like the 3rd episode when he had an entire conversation with frozen Iris.

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oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

nine-gear crow posted:

It also costs less money to have one actor playing your villain than like 12.

An aspiring actor in Vancouver would probably pay the CW for the exposure.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

I appreciate Ralph referencing that he was declared dead by particle accelerator in Season 1.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

The Lord Bude posted:

Why can't you guys hold your elections on weekends like normal countries? Like what the hell was going through people's heads when they decided on Tuesday, instead of say Saturday?

quote:

In 1845, the United States was largely an agrarian society. Farmers often needed a full day to travel by horse-drawn vehicles to the county seat to vote. Tuesday was established as election day because it did not interfere with the Biblical Sabbath or with market day, which was on Wednesday in many towns.

Could probably use some updating though.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

"I saw this in a comic book"

The day after Stan Lee dies too...

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

muscles like this! posted:

So I guess they're just not going to address why Thawne looks like Wells?

In Crisis on Earth X, it was "because he felt like it". I guess that still stands?

Also did Thawne only have FIFTY-TWO minutes left?

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

I think my brain refused to acknowledge it as first, but holy poo poo that Borat Bruno joke.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

howe_sam posted:

Didn't Barry already give Nora this talk?

Real Jay gave Barry that talk! Almost word for word and I thought it was really cool!

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

Phylodox posted:

Jabbing them with a needle is a medical procedure, one you can’t do to just anyone without their express consent. Just because someone was a victim of an industrial accident doesn’t invalidate their right to bodily integrity.

What if it were a laser beam? Or what if it were Melting Point's power? Nothing medical about it.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

Phylodox posted:

You can qualify all you like, it’s still permanently altering their biologies. It’s a violation of bodily autonomy.

So "biology" is where you draw the line? Because exactly some of the time, the technobabble explanation for superpowers is just "energy". Is okay to take away these people's powers?

Or, I guess that Cicada is actually Meta now, but his knife is very much a part of him now, psychic connection and all. Would taking his knife away from him be like forcibly amputating a limb?

oh jay fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Mar 8, 2019

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

The thing is within the show, until very recently powers were like clothes, people would take them on and off flippantly. I never would have even considered it "bodily integrity" until recently.

Like, that guy that got Fire powers from Melting Point and then immediately started doing crime. I guess they locked him in Iron Heights, but I think they would have been completely justified in taking his powers away, because it really seemed like a "thing he has" not a "thing he is".

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

Phylodox posted:

...

You can’t just say “No” to that, man. It’s not a personally held belief. No society can be said to be free where a man does not hold dominion over his own body. The Flash is ridiculous hyperbole, yes, but it’s not so fundamentally different that this no longer applies. Cisco’s ethical stance on this is 100% valid.

I don't think anyone understands exactly what mean by "Dominion over your own body" and you aren't explaining it well. Treat me like an idiot and explain what is "body" very slowly.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

I don't think we're using it to generalize. I think the question at hand, is in the specific instance that is definitely going to happen in the season finale, should the Flash kill or cure Cicada?

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

The Lord Bude posted:

They could have timed the start of the season relative to the production schedule in such a way that they could show the season start to finish with either no break or just a single hiatus for the holiday season. I'd rather the show started airing a month later than have random multi week gaps in the airing.

Unfortunately, "could" in this case doesn't mean "is literally possible", but more tied to the idea of "would advertisers pay the same or more in this case". The mere existence of sweeps weeks or whatever suggests otherwise.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

What has she changed? I don't remember this.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

Phenotype posted:

Even though it happened before she arrived, it was her time travel itself that caused the ripples that changed the past. They confirmed that in an episode in the last couple months, time travel changes a bunch of poo poo that isn't always direct cause and effect from the stuff you personally do in the past. That's how Barry managed to change the sex of Diggle's baby a couple seasons ago.

In the first few episodes they decided that for basically no reason it would be okay to keep Nora around and it wouldn't hurt anything, but the ripples from the time travel she'd already done had already made some things different.

I know they mentioned that kind of stuff with Flashpoint and all, but I literally cannot remember a single time they mentioned Nora doing it. Everything she changed that I remember was the direct result of punching the satellite, and flowed forwards not backwards in time.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

Weird that Nora kept referencing 2019 as home, which it clearly isn't. A lot of the "drama" came with this weird undertone, that I guess Nora was planning on permanently moving to the past or something?

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

The Lord Bude posted:

Actors act to the Brief. Her job was to portray an adult toddler and by golly she did her job really, really, well.

Sometimes I wonder if the writers even knew how old she was supposed to be, since they seemed to purposely not address it. Like they were just waiting for the footage to come back and how it felt before committing to an exact age and backstory.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

I just realized the Violett Beane (Jessie Quick) is in God Friended Me, so they weren't just making fun of the name of a show with a terrible concept, they were referencing the show of an old costar that has a terrible concept.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

It also makes no more sense than him just staying at Star Labs.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

nine-gear crow posted:

As cool as it would be to have an Oops, All Wellses! season, it’s kind of cruel to Tom Cavanaugh to make him play every role on the show at the same time.

Legends spoilers

They wouldn't even let there be 2 Zaris in the next season because it's too exhausting to fiddle with the same actor as 2 characters long term. It's obviously completely off the table.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

Crisis on Infinite Lucy Hales.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

muscles like this! posted:

They've really just kind of made Allegra's powers just kind of generic, haven't they? Her thing was supposed to just be like light, not just energy. Although I guess they do that for everyone. (See also Caitlin's ability to heal because of... cold?)

In this very episode, they made feeling emotions the same power as vertigo, or something like that. Everything involving the Top's scenes was confounding.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

I want to say that they had like 90% of this episode done and half of the next. Grant mentioned on Twitter that we'll see swole Barry in episode 2 or 3. He isn't even sure how they salvaged the existing footage.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

I liked Ralph's character because of the surprisingly good performance of the actor whose name I won't even bother to look up. You don't really catch lightning in a bottle like that two times in a row in these CW shows.

Just dump the character and move on.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

The Lord Bude posted:

I feel like you guys are massively overthinking it. He broke the artificial speed force; and a bunch of lightning burst out of him. The artificial speed force was Harrison Wells powered. Seems to me that all the escaping Wells Particles just found a convenient Wells particle receptacle and recreated Harrison Wells.

I know Crisis can explain anything, but they dug up that body in season one, and it was kind of an important plot point. That was either a flashback, or Wells coalesced over an empty mound of dirt.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

Robot Hobo posted:

They showed a "Once upon a time..." message before we saw Wells being facejacked and killed by Thawne, so that part was a flashback to the year 2000. Did I miss something, or was it unclear when in the 21-ish years after his death the resurrection happened? Did he just get green-sparkled back to life today, or did he come back to life ten minutes after he died, and has been hiding out this entire time?

I now accept the reality that Real-Well has been slightly off camera the entire time.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

Abra Kadabra was the coolest dude.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

The twist is that Diggle did it. He never really forgave Barry for turning his daughter into his son.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

howe_sam posted:

But thanks to Crisis Dig got both!

That just proves that Oliver is the best friend, much better than time criminal Barry Allen.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

There was an Earth 2 Killer Frost right? I can't even remember if the current one has anything to do with that one.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

I thought the episode overall was really, really bad. The editing, direction, and acting in Chester's whole story just did not land. The only good part of it was when everyone showed off their costumes.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

Yeah, I feel like there's was a draft of this episode with at least two more loops in it, where Cisco slowly figures out why Chester doesn't want to go to his grandma's, maybe where the guy in the pink shirt that Chester stared and for way, way too long does something. Some other running gags like you want from this kind of episode.

But if the payoff is still talking down Deon with a poorly written speech delivered by an actor that's not up to the job, to an actor not up to the job, it was still going to suck.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

howe_sam posted:

They backed themselves into a corner with the whole unless you hold the Maguffin you revert back to your mental state in that era when the loop resets thing.

They didn't have to break the device after one loop. During "the montage" they could have had a fun sequence of Chester yelling pop culture stuff at Cisco and him getting increasingly irate at their poor quality.

"Powerpuff Girls? Really? That's what you wake me up with?"

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

twistedmentat posted:

Yea I'm watching it now and I was thinking that no one dressed like that in 1998. Honestly Cisco and Chester's starter outfits fit in fine for the era.

Seinfeld season 8 is the precise moment that fashion switches from 80s/early 90s, to modern. So this all tracks.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

DoctorWhat posted:

What do I have to do to get y'all watching some real tokusatsu.

An episode where they watch a Japanese adaption of themselves would be magical.

Vibe-kun kakkoii~~~

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

Sentence Killer Frost to death and maybe in Season 21, we can see if they do it.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

I know that there's a rotating set of writers for episodes, but this whole dilemma about it being immoral to take away the Forces from people is like an exact parallel to the taking away meta powers from the previous episode (and previous seasons) and they didn't even reference it at all. We've established that Team Flash is extremely anti-taking away powers so many times already!

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

Fear tentacles. It's like someone wrote that Psych has to fight Fuerza to a standstill and they chose a superpower randomly from a hat.

We are approaching hate-watch territory, which I never did even when Arrow was at its worst.

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oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

I feel like a bad episode of Batwoman still at least a few good scenes from Alice hamming it up.

I genuinely don't think there was a single scene in this last episode that was good. Bad characterization, low stakes, retreading old character beats, cheesy dialog, hokey action. Bad all around.

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