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FF14 is gud, as is GW2, IMO. Just in vastly different ways. wow was never good because the whole warcraft aesthetic has been garbage since warcraft 3, and since MMOs are fashion contests first and foremost, it disqualifies itself right there.
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Jan 9, 2019 13:14
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Glenn Quebec posted:Hey is there an MMO out there that isn't hotkey driven ??? https://store.steampowered.com/app/746930/ 
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Jan 10, 2019 16:48
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GW2 definitely doesn't have that many players these days.
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Jan 13, 2019 09:15
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Megaservers was the best thing that happened to GW2's population health, yeah. e: The reason why we even know population seems to be sliding down is that they keep having to figure out ways to have wvw populated. Right now it's still "these less populated servers get matched together with a relatively bigger one" AFAIK, and now they're trying to make it completely unconnected to servers. Truga fucked around with this message at 09:44 on Jan 14, 2019 |
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Jan 14, 2019 09:40
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i'll start the wiki
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Jan 14, 2019 14:37
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mmo devs trying to cater to literally everyone is dumb though. adding fun things to do that aren't all the same is one thing, but adding an entire eve online gameplay loop into ff14 wouldn't really help because people who want to shoot idiots in the face play eve online and aren't going to grind a bunch of levels to do it in a different game, that's probably not nearly as good in that niche.
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Jan 23, 2019 00:18
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same on depression, but MMOs are definitely stale as gently caress, so if that kind of gameplay is not exactly what you're looking for, eh. i've also been kinda slow on ff14 lately been playing other poo poo with friends like path of exile or warframe. they scratch a similar itch, and are free to try out.
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Mar 18, 2019 16:28
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i've been playing a lot of path of exile this last month and as an arpg i really don't think it'll be topped any time soon. it wasn't all that good back in beta, but these days it's fuckin amazing.
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Apr 15, 2019 01:49
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Zaphod42 posted:Why? It makes sense. WoW and FFXIV still use it today and it makes sense? This little known MMO I played called d&d online had a toggle (default bind T), you pushed it and it was free look 3rd person game, you pushed it again and got your mouse cursor back. It's not exactly rocket surgery. DancingShade posted:Old school controls are CTRL, ALT, spacebar and the cursor keys. Nothing else. No mouse input or anything. First thing I did when playing doom was enter setup, set up mouse controls, and set spacebar to backwards. Along with shift for running and z and x for strafing defaults, it seemed the most comfortable. I used this setup in most first person games I played enough to bother rebinding keys in until a couple years ago lmao i moved to esdf now Truga fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Apr 29, 2019 |
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Apr 29, 2019 11:41
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Harrow posted:GW2 has this, too, as of the first expansion I think. Not everyone uses the free-look just because it can make it harder to place ground targets (you end up swinging your camera around like crazy) but I like it a lot for some classes. yeah i can't use that poo poo for staff ele, but for dagger ele it's amazing since it has no targeted aoes.
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May 3, 2019 17:08
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Ragnarok Online is basically a slightly slower paced top down arpg. That's what was so good about it, that gameplay loop is just so satisfying. You think up a stupid build, you hit level 30 on various flavours of poring, then go to underprison, and emerge a day and 30 deaths later, level 70-80, with your build online and working. And there's a couple different fun builds to just run around maps and kill poo poo with for every single class, so there was a gigantic variety of supported playstyles. This is in contrast to modern MMOs where a class will sometimes have just one viable build, and even if it does, it's pre-determined by developers exactly what skills you should pick if you want to be even remotely useful. I played RO as much as I did for as long as I did because I could do amazing bullshit like agi dps knights, dodge wizards, auto-falcon hunters, and strength rogues. All builds off-meta, all amazing fun to play. The top down + grid nature could also make positioning and aoe on any class pretty involved, especially casters who would get their spells interrupted by taking even 1 point of damage. Also the fact that you could run around a map to gather a bunch of poo poo before blowing it up with aoe skills because unless you run out of its aggro range, it'll just keep following forever. And then they started adding bullshit to the game like leveling to 99 all over again, but this time it's 3 times the xp, and I think now mobs even have a leash so you can't even get a big pack before blowing them up?
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May 4, 2019 11:56
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I'm hyped for wow classic going the wildstar route and the drama that'll produce. Unlike wildstar, it'll probably hold a few nostalgic people and their friends who pay the sub anyway, but I don't see it being successful enough for blizzard to bother too long with it, seeing how free versions of classic wow already exist and can barely hold ~10k players online.
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May 27, 2019 13:06
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L2 got fantasy open world pvp right in that there's consequences for ganking people. The factions split that got popular with wow is incredibly dumb, both from a gameplay point of view (no reason not to grief people if you're feeling bored, there's no risk to doing it it), and from a "split your playerbase" point of view. Wow was incredibly popular so it got away with the 2nd one, but the 1st one still made playing on pvp servers just plain inferior unless you had a gank squad of your own.
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May 30, 2019 11:51
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lol wow was some small poo poo compared to even lol, didn't that cap out at 60 million weekly players or somesuch? i'm sure there's mobile games with 10 times as many people playing by now
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May 31, 2019 17:42
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Zaphod42 posted:None of those mobile games really count as MMORPGs in the traditional sense though do they? They're all pretty significantly different. Its not an MMO just to have lots of players online, or else Counter-Strike is an MMO. everything that has an online lobby has been called a mmo since at least guild wars 1, that train sailed
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May 31, 2019 18:27
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yeah, having 100 people on the field in eve is easy, because the field is 300km big and doesn't exist having 100 people on the field in a normal game is just asking for trouble, and considering how much trouble even eve is with 100, let alone 1000 players, lmao I'd be extremely for a good pve/pvp mix mmo, but in a fantasy world, going full eve and letting 5k people onto the field if they all decide to show up isn't gonna work.
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Jun 14, 2019 00:18
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Groovelord Neato posted:why does every eastern mmo look the same. no point in trying to improve on perfection
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Jul 26, 2019 07:19
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yeah, that's the issue isn't it. tab combat is a tried and true problem, which is why any mmo with a budget will just use that. i think the closest to decent combat, decent mmos we got are warframe, gw2 and ddo. out of those 3, only warframe is very popular today, and it started out *real* rought and only persisted because it was the companys love child. also out of these 3 only gw2 is an actual mmo, the other two are just dungeon crawlers with a 3d lobby. gw2/tera did show you can do actual combat in an mmo tho, dunno why it won't catch on more. e: hell, i'll even take a mmo that plays like ragnarok. i stayed with that piece of poo poo game for way too long just because it didn't do tab targeting and positioning was important. Truga fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Sep 5, 2019 |
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Sep 5, 2019 22:53
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Zaphod42 posted:Strong agree that levels are a design crutch and should be done away with. I think wow is almost there, they've functionally replaced levels but still have them vestigially. Counterpoint: Levels are extremely cool and good when the levels themselves don't actually give you anything except some points to spend. See: Diablo2, path of exile (extremely path of exile ), ragnarok online, dungeons & dragons online, etc.Level ups in those things give you maybe some token hit points, and that's it. Everything else depends on what you do with the stat/skill points you're given. Letting people make their own builds is a nightmare from a balancing point of view, but as has been just established, a good balance isn't needed 99% of the time, it just needs to be good enough, and classes/builds should have some unique utilities.
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Sep 11, 2019 13:36
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sad to hear new torchlight is bad. warcraft open world pvp is terrible for a simple reason: faction split. remove that, put in a karma system, suddenly open world pvp is good since now you need an actual reason to gank someone. even a reason of "i'm bored" or "because i can" is better than no reason at all, which is what faction split encourages.
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Sep 11, 2019 14:29
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dunno, Licam mentioned it, the only thing I've seen of the game so far is that gameplay trailer video thing like half a year ago.
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Sep 11, 2019 14:44
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i literally only play ffxiv because it's the only mmo that constantly pushes out tons of fairly polished content and amazing music for my sub monies. if a non-tab-target mmo did that, i'd go play that in an instant. hell, lately path of exile has been kicking it out of the fuckin park, so i might just go to that full-time instead. it's an amazingly fun game to play.
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Sep 16, 2019 14:57
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Yeah, tab target is a big old shitbag precisely because of the accuracy. There's no input required, you just spam your attacks and that's that. I used to play a lot of DDO and my friend put it pretty nicely when he said "i saw an arrow flying at me through the door, so i moved over. the wizard behind me ate it and died lmao"
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Sep 16, 2019 17:03
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They're very related. If you want the accuracy of "targeting something in a big group will hit exactly that target", you lose the ability to dodge poo poo, for projectiles to switch targets, etc, because projectile will fly straight through other people and/or walls if the person moved behind a wall to achieve that.Zaphod42 posted:There's tab targeting systems where you don't automatically face your opponent so manual input is still required. Isn't that how FFXIV works? Been a little while since I've played.
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Sep 16, 2019 17:23
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Yeah GW2 kinda goes halfway like that, in the end it plays *exactly* like tab targeting for pve. Pvp is slightly different if you play non-melee, but still mostly feels like tab-target poo poo. e: to clarify, long range feels exactly like tab target game, melee usually play pretty well in gw2.
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Sep 16, 2019 17:27
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Minorkos posted:Warframe has always been vaguely interesting to me but personally I'd really like that persistent open world to run around in. It doesn't even need to be a dedicated MMORPG server, just stream people into my game randomly like Absolver does. I've also heard that Warframe is a little bit bad about its F2P mechanics. warframe is extremely good about f2p mechanics. the only thing you need to buy is frame/weapon slots, and if you wait for -75% sale 20 bucks will be enough to afford slots for like 80% weapons/frames, which is like 200 hours of playing before you'll spend all that. Truga fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Sep 17, 2019 |
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Sep 17, 2019 14:50
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warframe is one of the most fun up-to-4 player games you can play right now imo. the main gameplay loop is basically "go faster. no, nonononono, faster", and everything around it is there just to support that goal. weapons and skills are deadly, as are (high level) enemies, so it ends up being a game built around killing poo poo before it can hit you. also, as long as you're flying through the air or sliding or doing other acrobatics, the enemies have very bad accuracy, so your main defense is speed, too. also, since the weapons aren't procgen like borderlands, there's some real out there poo poo in there. my personal favourites are: a shotgun that shoots filings from a spinning metal wheel instead of having a clip with ammo, which cuts enemies into little chunks. also, a single reload is good for up to 245 shots depending on how hard you're holding the trigger lmao a pistol that shoots big waves of radiation that disintegrate enemies a big, rocket powered hammer that can launch enemies into space
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Sep 17, 2019 15:18
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yeah, and it owns
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Sep 23, 2019 12:10
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MMOs play like "realtime without pause" rather than turnbased tho.
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Sep 23, 2019 15:37
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Zaphod42 posted:The context of the post was "tun-based with automatic turns" so... yes? That is indeed what we were talking about, but those are some other words if you want to be pedantic and argue semantics. It's a joke wordplay about how realtime with pause combat is terrible compared to actual turn based combat, and MMOs are just that same garbo combat, but without the pause, op.
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Sep 26, 2019 09:45
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Doctor Goat posted:I miss Ragnarok Online Big  , except last time I *really* liked RO was before they did the whole "get to 99, then start at level 1 again" bullshit. I played quite a lot of 3rd class RO but it lost a lot of its charm in that transition, imo.I get my top-down farm-grind level-stupid-mage-builds fix from path of exile these days, and it's honestly amazing, but without meeting other anime sprites in the maps it's just not the same.
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Nov 17, 2019 12:33
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frajaq posted:I will never blame anyone for giving up on FFXIV due to the slog that the base game MSQ and post release patch content is, until you reach proper Heavensward content eonwe posted:id love to try FF XIV again I think if you have other games you also want to play, i suggest waiting until said patch happens and starting then.
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Dec 26, 2019 09:00
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yeah i probably won't use it, but streamlining the 1-50 experience should help fucktons with player retention
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Dec 26, 2019 13:25
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Groovelord Neato posted:Making an MMO with cutscenes and a main quest is so strange. It's really more of a single player story game where you can play the dungeons with friends, like that bioware starwars mmo. Until you hit level 50 anyway, after that there's tons of side content designed for groups of 4/8/24 people, and it's all pretty high quality too. Lube banjo posted:Where are all of the MMOJRPGs at anyway? I want a turn-based MMO with multiple characters and good writing. Like multi-boxing EQ back in the day, but officially supported Dofus/Wakfu exist, but I have no idea if they're good. I tried Dofus in... 2003? It's a turn/grid based game like xcom/disgaea, and somehow Dofus still exists 15 years later and got a sequel in Wakfu so maybe it's not terrible games? jokes posted:Sucks telling people, and truly meaning it, that FFXIV is the best Final Fantasy ever made except for the first 60 hours of the game, lol. yeah, it's bad. i almost quit the game during the titan banquet thing lol. had to take 2 weeks off. after that there's not anything really bad, because during the shittier parts of level 50 patch stories you can do a ton of new dungeons and raids and poo poo, but 1-50 has a few parts that you *need* to clear to progress and are just bad.
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Dec 30, 2019 15:09
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:As someone who almost exclusively played pvp server's on MMO's since a young age I sorta want to reply to this. a big part of this is the way wow, and then all its clones, implemented pvp, IMO. which is to say "incredibly stupidly and lazily". factions are dumb as all gently caress, and wow succeded despite them not because of them. letting people kill other players repeatedly for absolutely no repercussion just because they're bored is a problem and makes pve servers a requirement. in games like lineage, eve-o, probably some newer asian ones i haven't played, unless you specifically go to pvp open zones that are clearly marked that way, just hitting a player will have a penalty, and killing a player will cause some pretty nasty temporary drawbacks. despite this, people pvp in these games. eve-o is probably an outlier here since it's primarily considered a pvp game, but i've played a fair bit of lineage 2 too, which was by all accounts a classic "grind on field/in dungeon" pve mmo, just with the caveat that people have the ability to kill you any time outside towns. despite this, i've gotten ganked by someone who outgeared and/or outleveled me only a couple times in my hundreds of hours of play, and the reason is super simple: it's just not worth the bother. killing people roughly your own level can be worth it because they're killing poo poo on your grind spot and slowing you down. killing someone a couple levels or even just 1 gear grade lower than you is just a big ol fuckin waste of time, because you've gained nothing but some karma score which you'll have to grind down, and if you get caught while your name is red, anyone can kill you without even flagging for pvp so you can't fight back without getting even more karma.
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Jan 22, 2020 18:50
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kaffo posted:Back to combat, what's thread's thoughts on a more slower paced, strategic combat? More about character positioning, flanking and countering with the right moves/equipment than flashy action combat? none of the above prevents you from it being a fast paced game. DDO is pretty actiony for an mmo, but also contains all those things. flanking gives you extra to attack rolls, there's shittons of gear you have for different situations (i.e. deathblock amulet to prevent instant death effects, but fairly useless otherwise which you only when an enemy is using those, silver sword for killing vampires, etc)
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Jan 28, 2020 13:05
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ehh, is to hit still even a thing that matters? maybe during early levels, but later on numbers got super inflated (as mmos tend to do), and you need to build some real hosed up poo poo to not hit on a 2. i played a few quests with a friend this week after we haven't played for 6 years and even in a level 26 quest we had zero issues, even though our poo poo is probably super outdated now because when we quit the game max level content was like... 23? defenses are a lot harder to optimize tho, which is great since the game stays fairly deadly that way. e: to be clear not saying there aren't some pretty big problems with it, but to-hit specifically isn't one of them
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Jan 28, 2020 16:19
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bewilderment posted:Guild Wars 2 had a mod that was eventually turned into a proper in-game option with the first expansion to use 'Action Camera' which basically turned the cursor into a center-fixed reticle and auto-targeted whatever was highlighted. Basically making the game play like a third-person shooter. this was great, but unfortunately it released several years late. i played elementalist and early on there was a great build with daggers that was really actiony and would have played amazingly with that, but now elementalists are all about staff, and staff uses a shitton of skills that have targeting circles and it plays real bad with that Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Do you have any links about it? I've not heard of that one.
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Feb 12, 2020 13:30
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alright, i found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txiYd3lNFEM i haven't really heard about new world before but from my reading it was supposed to be a full pvp game in pretty much eve style, but medieval, as far as player interaction in the wild is concerned. but then in this video they say they've changed their mind. you'll join a faction when you're high enough level and then flag yourself for pvp, and anyone not flagged can't attack or get attacked by players, because anything else they've tried to do "didn't really fix anything". i just posted about this poo poo being solved decades ago in here in the last page or so. and now a bunch of pvp fans are bitter and the mantra of "pvp mmos suck" keeps true, because it's not here nor there lmao
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Feb 12, 2020 13:56
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Frog Act posted:I played the alpha and it was boring garbage where you scampered around samey forests gathering resources to craft into generic gear and it had no interesting mechanics whatsoever except for pvp this sounds exactly like eve-o if you replace "forests" with "roid belts" lmao
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Feb 12, 2020 19:20
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