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Braggart: Nov 10, 2011; always thank the rock hider

Theresa May has made a sterling effort, but what we really need is the return of Margaret Thatcher. That's a leader I would happily call mummy.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2019 09:19

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# ¿ May 20, 2024 11:13

Braggart: Nov 10, 2011; always thank the rock hider

Jose posted:

if you want a non-paywalled version

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1112437466655608835

We get it Tony, you're a Tory. Now please gently caress off back to your crypt.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2019 11:34

Braggart: Nov 10, 2011; always thank the rock hider

Junior G-man posted:

Also, why didn't Tony learn his lesson

Because hubris

# ¿ Apr 1, 2019 11:43

Braggart: Nov 10, 2011; always thank the rock hider

Hooray I've caught up with the thread after spending the last 2 weeks 20-30 posts behind. You fuckers and your derails

Do we have a clear idea of how Labour deselections are going/going to go? IIRC the 2017 snap election led to a load of poo poo MPs staying on because there wasn't time to replace them (Kate Hoey I'm looking at you). Are CLPs required to wait until an election is called to deselect their MPs? If not I can still understand waiting because it would distract from the Tory shitshow when the press jumps on the Corbyn Purge (more so than they already do I mean). I know that's inevitable and therefore the CLPs should try to coordinate it to minimise the time it's in the news, and logically it would make sense to do that in the runup to an election. But in the case of another snap election, could we be stuck with the fuckers again? If so I wonder if calling an election with the minimum of notice could be of long term benefit to the Tory party by hamstringing a Corbyn government with a large number of rebels. This would be very bad because getting nothing done would discredit Corbyn's politics in the eyes of the average voter.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2019 10:07

Braggart: Nov 10, 2011; always thank the rock hider

Miftan posted:

Really don't like that video. For one, it does its best to hide to little bump at the end there which overall doesn't matter obviously, but is disingenuous. I can forgive that but Holy poo poo do I not like Labour going on about how more cops are important. I know we've had this discussion here before but acab. The police need to be majorly overhauled before they do more harm than good.

I'm okay with it in the context of trying to win the next election. It's attacking a traditional strength of the Tory Party - they are perceived to be the party of law and order - and discrediting them hugely. It's also shoring up a commonly perceived weakness of the Labour Party, as they are often painted as permissive and encouraging of crime. Both of these are bullshit, but are widely believed in the current political and media landscape. Additionally, funding the police force properly would by itself be an improvement on the current situation. Obviously the police need reform too, but having overworked, underpaid staff encourages corruption and chasing targets over actually helping victims of crime and doing socially beneficial work. I would be surprised if some reform were not attempted by the next Labour government, and if they don't I'll be among those shouting for them to loving do so. In fact I think it would be pretty amazing if Labour attained something of a reputation for being better on law and order and then reformed the police to be less awful, violent and racist, thus reinforcing that reputation in a genuinely positive, leftist way. It's also worth remembering that Diane Abbott is Shadow Home Secretary. I think she's unlikely to go fash.

As for abolishing the police force as we know it (which has been mentioned by some - not suggesting that's you

), I may agree with that in the long term but I don't think it's at all practical at present. And I think rhetoric to that effect would only harm Labour's electoral chances because it would immediately be seized on by our godawful media to take pressure off the Tories and demonise Labour.

# ¿ Apr 15, 2019 09:49

Braggart: Nov 10, 2011; always thank the rock hider

Late reply because I've been busy, and I'm still in a hurry so it's a quick one.

Miftan posted:

Bolded the part about this that I think is good, but I really don't like relying on my perception of people obviously being good enough to not be shits as opposed to stated policy. It's partly to do with the fact that ironic racism get turned into real racism. Abbott and Corbyn are less likely to fall down this rabbit hole than most, but it's a profoundly human thing and I have Legitimate Concerns about it.

Yeah I know, it's a poo poo thing to have to do, but it's very clear which party is the best option available right now, and even with the flaws it's better than anything we've seen for decades. We can't influence them very much right now, and they have a strategy that I think is generally good, and winning the next election is spectacularly important IMO. Get it won, try not to compromise too much in doing so, and get the important work done to change the hellworld this country is right now. Implement press reform, fix the benefits system, build social housing and expand tenants' rights and various other things that aren't coming to mind right this second. We can badger them to be better on immigration and minority rights and protections at that point. And anything else they're backsliding on. Take a tip from the right: always push further and further left. Nothing will ever be left-wing enough!

quote:

Obviously I don't wanna abolish the police over night, but maybe you're both right in that the way to make the police better is an injection of cash and numbers in the short term. I just hope the other reforms will be there right along with them.

I don't know the subject well, but in this thread I've heard good things about how Singapore reformed its police force. Big penalties for corruption combined with amnesty and early retirement for those who want it. Seems like a good way to bypass the inevitable sandbagging and sabotage that a corrupt institution will respond to attempted reform with, while also overwhelming the old culture with new personnel so it can't poison the new culture.

Obviously I don't favour the insane laws and punishments of Singapore, but those are beside the point of police reform.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2019 16:43