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cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Mr. Bad Guy posted:

Is there a newbie guide for Clickpocalypse 2?

If my memory is right, a decent first party is Druid (spec for wolves) and Ranger for damage, rogue to open locks, priest or warrior for the last spot (if warrior just spec to taunt and soak damage while the wolves kill things, it doesn't matter that he dies all the time). After you defeat a castle be sure to buy farms, I think the rest is pretty standard rpg leveling/gearing. You can use scrolls in manual play to progress faster than if the party just does its own thing. Maybe you could just do 4 druids or 3 druids and a rogue, the wolves were insane.

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cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

nessin posted:

I picked up Idle Wizard again for some reason and I was looking through all the achievements I couldn't figure out before and just cheesing it with the wiki now. There is one which appears to require four days of cast time on a spell to make happen (Voidmancer's Void Prison), is there a way to intentionally reduce a cast time? I saw a tip to save/reload which interrupts the cast, as well as replacing the spell, but the times cast value doesn't increase when you do that.

If I remember right, there is some equipment and/or pet that you can use to reduce the duration of that spell type (along with not getting any upgrades that increase duration) to make that a more sane length.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

baram. posted:

give us the idle skilling tips, i'll give that game a shot until IA gets a bit further along!

Published Oct. 11, 2018... Requires Flash. :psyduck:

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Kyrosiris posted:

Yeah, I brute forced it with an overnight run and now I'm in the same boat. Working towards the suggested requirements for c11x2 now!

A little trick at this point in the game (before autochallenge/autoascend): you can do your afk runs inside C11 and get a extra 2x time multiplier from all the free Mortuus Est ants to speed up your tesseract buildings.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Vil posted:

Any advice on corruptions, challenge timers, auto-sac timer? I'm into automated ascension land now (yay) but even with the same settings run to run, it can still be (more than slightly) inconsistent.

Corruptions:
1/2: Easy
3: Very Hard, eventually can raise
4: The worst, 1 point eventually
5: 1 point not too bad, additional points eventually ok
6: By far the easiest
7: Medium
8: Medium
9: 1 point not too bad, additional points seem harder than #3

Start with diamond(6), add 1-2 levels of diamond each time you add a point in one of 1,2,5,7,8,9 as you get stronger. 1 and 2 seemed to start out relatively harder but eventually become much easier than 5/7/8/9.
The first really good timing I found was 0/.5/.7 and progressed down to 0/.2/0 eventually. For a while you'll want runs that do two challenge cycles to hit the score breakpoint for higher tier cubes, then move to one cycle once you are stronger. The runs are very inconsistent with around 30% variance and if you're going to afk a while you may want to drop a level of corruption or add .05 to your timers because you will periodically get unlucky runs that fail and get stuck forever.

The big unlocks in cube research are 3x8 and 5x8, both let you reduce the 'wait between challenges' timer significantly (and 5x8 gets you c13). I haven't been able to make a run with an ant sacrifice that was better than just never sacrificing. Make sure you have autorune and autoresearch on, it's really easy to forget when you turn them off do to a challenge.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Musluk posted:

Really?

Though my dark rituals had been mainly done when I remembered to do it so they've been all over the place, but now I'm curious. Why's that?

It's the same idea as number in early NGU (multiplier is number): reset as often as you reasonably can because you get all the currency from ritual levels (xp from killing bosses in NGU) every reset and that's what gives you long term progression, and do some longer runs if you are close to beating a boss monster so you have time to push up your renamed Advanced Training levels (similar to killing a new titan/farming a new zone).

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Pseudoscorpion posted:

Hmm, I've gotten to the point where I need to pick and choose which modules I want in Perfect Tower 2 (on the cusp of T5, just need to max out like 30 more modules).

Assuming I don't want to micromanage too much, what builds have been working for folks? I've pretty much been slotting as much multiplicative damage as I can (every touch and impetus I have) on top of the basic elemental damage modules, and what few defense modules I'm using have mostly been ones that also increase my damage (Magma Foundation, Strike Back + Defiance), which works pretty good until it doesn't (the point where I'm not one-shotting enemies anymore).

I just finished up that part. Defiance only, get the ultimate skill out of the gravity experiment (for -.5g) in the laboratory and stack the '1 defense module' and 'at least one of each module type' buffs in the headquarters to grind out the rest of the tier. Tier 5 gives you new wave skipping program that gives you +1 wave for every enemy you kill in endless mode so you can unlock the rarer, more interesting modules with that.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.
perfect tower 2 talk

pixaal posted:

The core main game is fun though so I hope they fix that up.

The game became totally uninteresting to me around tier 6/tier 7, where there is only one strategy (do %hp damage and never take an actual hit on your tower) with two difficulties (maps with enemies that have too much darkness/fire resist (that are essentially impossible) and maps without (that you can do infinitely)) and you just wait hours for your wave counter to go to whatever number it has to get to for the next reset (or run a script to auto-mine/shipyard/trade every x minutes while you are waiting). Essentially zero meaningful decisions to make.

Maybe this changes at some point in progression but glancing at the endgame channels in discord it seemed to be pretty much the same thing.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Beasteh posted:

I started FE000000 yesterday and am probably around midway through infinity, just getting to unlock challenge 3

I have to commend the developer for how finely balanced/polished it is compared to Antimatter Dimensions other clones. There has obviously been a lot of thought and effort put into making it possible to experience the game without following someone else's walkthrough.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

headfake posted:

I got to a point where all I was doing was following the guide by rote, so I decided to start over and not use it at all, and I'm back up to the beginning of the eternity challenges. It definitely seems like it's going to take way longer just winging it. It seems there are walls that you can clear easily with just the right strategy but will take a long time to just outlevel.

Based on my experiences thus far (16/32 EC completions) anytime I hit a 'wall' it's just telling me to find a new strategy. So far no ECs (other than EC3 #3, but maybe I didn't find the right strategy) have unlocked until I could reasonably do them in 30 minutes so it's just been a matter of solving the puzzle of what study combo to use (if the unlocks were not tuned to make this true then you end up in Antimatter Dimensions where you have no idea if a challenge is impossible or you don't have the correct build for it and basically have to use a guide to answer at least one of those two questions.)

My rule of thumb for studies has been 'buy the highest number of different studies you can regardless of their strength, then if you have the option buy the best bonuses you can (higher tiers usually being a bit better)'

edit: Finished all but the last couple ECs and unlocked the next tier, EC4 #4 was the only one that unlocked far before it was possible. Some of the later half of the challenge completions I was able to unlock a while before it was possible to complete them but it was pretty obvious stuff (like being 1 theorem short of being able to buy an additional study in the challenge) and testing challenges only took 30-60 seconds. Very doable/fun/fair with no walkthrough.

cyrn fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Jan 3, 2021

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Bedurndurn posted:

Progress Knight

Okay, so I got to the 'live 200 years' part and unlocked a new resource. I was underwhelmed. Poked around a bit and you need 1000 of that new resource to unlock a faster time progression, so yeah gently caress this game. Almost no content, but it will take you weeks to discover that unless you cheat.


It's not quite that bad, every 2-3 runs you unlock a new multiplier due to the power gained by getting a new multiplier. But there is nothing else, the game just starts to require even higher levels of annoying micromanagement because the auto-skill doesn't consider time per level so you have to manually train your 5 different evil skills.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Nibble posted:


There were some individual points in FE000000 that could use some tweaking, like I think you have to manually do ECs a few too many times.

Agreed, the part from first complexity to getting 'all ECs autocomplete' is what is going to keep me from doing another playthrough. Overall it's a very well thought out and balanced game and clearly a lot of thought and attention went into making it fair and fun to play without needing to look up guides or discord information, which was refreshing.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Kyrosiris posted:

Really? Early Atomic feels completely miserable and rote.

Atomic is probably the least repetitive layer in the game, but I shelved it for a while after the first Atomic couple resets that are just 'get more points on reset' too (that was before he made the QoL changes that give you +1 to the starting reset points, though). The boosts for first reset on the next layer are strong enough you never experience it again.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.
There is a really sneaky problem with the UI: by the time you go down through the layers of tech, you have absolutely no idea how much T1<thing> you actually need to run the T4 stuff you are trying to make, because there's overproduction on every component at every layer of the production tree, usually 1.2-1.5x but sometimes 5x or 10x. Since there's no slider to produce at anything other than max production the only way to reduce the error is by fiddling with beacons to try to get close (which I certainly do not have the patience to do every time I buy an upgrade).

This is probably why buying upgrades, particularly T2/T3, often feels bad. If you didn't free up any tiles, all you did was increase the error in your production tree and turn numbers red.

For example, I need 108 Rockets for my T4 juice. One rocket tile gives me 659 rockets (6.1x more than I actually need). Then one Decent Wiring gives me 1.5x more than I need to supply the overproduced rocket. Then I make 1.4x more Crappy Copper Wires than I need on that step. Then I end up with half a map covered in copper sinking all my tech into copper upgrades that aren't really helping me because the resource balance has tricked me into thinking I need 13x more copper than I actually did to supply the T4 Juice, which is the thing I actually care about making.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Ineptitude posted:

This game is getting really shat on in the steam reviews. Is it as bad as they say?

It's pretty bad, the same stupid 'annoy you into spending money by locking all automation in the cash shop' game design as in Incremental Epic Heroes, but even worse and without the interesting choices in progression.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Toshimo posted:

Yeah, this is what I do and it did not help at all.

Chrome implemented a 'check if the browser window is visible on the desktop' thing somewhat recently, so now if at least some corner of your separate window isn't actually visible on your monitor it will be treated like a background tab. My guess is this got you.

You can copy chrome://flags/#calculate-native-win-occlusion into the address bar and set it to disabled to turn off this check.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Safari Disco Lion posted:

Clicker Heroes 2, the idle game that they charged $30 for on Early Access release (it's still in EA lol), is now dead. Most of these problems were pointed out three years ago when it was first released, but I guess making a decent first game doesn't make you a good game dev or smart enough to see problems when they're pointed out.

The elephant they are trying really hard not to mention is that the deckbuilding poker game they just released on Steam Early Access went through 53 versions starting a few months after CH2 'released' (aka the update schedule you'd expect from a game a team of people are actually working on.) In this time CH2 got 1 or 2 tiny updates pitched as 'major reworks' a year.



ErIog posted:

So I'm sorry that happened to you, but what you're describing isn't something inherent to the game. It was just the way you decided to play it.

Completely disagree. The gameplay loop of corruptions is 'now that you have more stuff, different corruptions might be better, so experiment and see' and requiring hours for feedback on whether 'something else' is better is inherently in contradiction with the core design of corruptions. This slowly becomes more of a problem as you progress into corruptions but eventually you need hours of realtime per one ingame second and that feedback loop is completely broken, requiring you to run multiple instances of the game with different corruption setups to have any basis to compare things.

Tainen posted:

Corruptions 2/2/5/4/2/4/12/9/13

You are at SD5 (the 3rd number) and a few weeks away from seeing what Jhet is talking about, the problem starts to appear at SD6/7 and becomes seriously bad at SD8+. For example: I am currently testing whether SD8 or SD9 is better. I have to run two browser instances to do this and I will have absolutely no idea until I end the runs tomorrow whether the few dozen seconds of ingame time that passed in SD8 was better than 1-2 seconds of SD9.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

ErIog posted:

The game doesn't require you to do that kind of min/maxing at all.

I also don't understand why you need to run two browser instances. The game has manual save/load and extremely generous offline progress.

It's a puzzle game where figuring out strategies as you go along is the puzzle. The cool thing about the these sort of games is the progression mechanics basically automatically tune the difficulty for whatever amount of puzzleness the player wants. You want to figure out what is required to keep progressing at a reasonable pace and it is working for you. I want to figure out which of my (working) solutions to the corruption puzzle is actually better and it is not working well for me. Telling me 'you don't have to solve *that* puzzle' is basically the same as someone telling you 'you don't have to play without discord.' People find fun in these games in various ways and when a game mechanic breaks a kind of fun that has been in the game up until that point, it's fair to criticize that mechanic.

For example, you could be rightly critical if months/years into playing the game some new content forced you to get daily codes from discord in order to boost a multiplier. Someone who argued 'the game doesn't require playing without discord and it's just how you choose to play the game' would similarly not be engaging with the point.

I haven't tried the offline progress since the (very recent) switch to day-long runs with one ant sac at the end, but since offline progress ignores configured autoresets it has been essentially useless most of the game.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Sivart13 posted:

is the fear that this takes too much of the game out of the game? Implementing the complicated priority system in Increlution seems more complicated for both the dev and players

As a game that obviously attempting to iterate on the design of idle loops I think they saw how absurdly long/inflexible/tedious the queues ended up being in that game and wanted to avoid that.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

ErIog posted:

Idleon just hurts to play. Someone was asking for incremental games that have less time between interactions, and Idleon is kind of that in a bad way. This gets better when you get more inventory, but the first time I left it idle for too long and then so much poo poo dropped I couldn't sort through it all made me nuts. There were probably rare drops in the stacks. Wasn't ever going to find them because every surface was filled with stacks of common drops.

It's the usual dark patterns of mobile game design: manipulate you into spending money by having you see all the drops you 'lost' so you buy inventory space/stack size in the cash shop. Similar thing with the card drops, you can grind out daily/hourly boss spawns for months or spend a few hundred on loot boxes to instantly max them out. Certain crafting recipes were impossible to complete if you didn't buy ~$100 of inventory upgrades from the shop. The userbase tilts heavily to mobile-only players who are used to being exploited much worse than this so I think the monetization must be a breath of fresh air for them, but even something like Idle Champions of the Forgotten Realm doesn't come close to these levels of oppressive mechanics.

(Quit early last year so some things may have changed but the general pattern of development seemed pretty clear: maximal pain in new content to get invested players to spend, fix the major exploits after your whales get to use them for a bit, reduce the pain some in a balance patch, and move on to the next new content.)

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Arzaac posted:

So far I've been really enjoying it! A lot of stuff feels a lot cleaner then WAMI, and the early game also feels a lot less like a NGU clone, so that's all good stuff. If anything, it feels a lot more Path of Exile inspired.

My review from well beyond the content wall is that the start of game to around 2000 reincarnation levels is highly polished, fairly monetized and really a lot of fun. Unfortunately I suspect that a lot of people will drop the game after the first ascension (unless it's significantly different from what's been teased so far) since there's so much 'do this, but repeat it once for every class and you'll need to manually make the same tree again for each of them' that isn't going to be QoLed out until you've done multiple ascensions (probably 150-300 path challenges for example).

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Ineptitude posted:

Started FAPI this weekend.

Have reincarnated twice, for lvl 103 and 25 points.
Should i pick a new class for every reincarnation? They look very similar, but leveling more classes gain me more talent points at the start?

The early game progression is primarily from getting higher class levels. Don't rotate classes starting out, since every class starts off with a 1x multiplier to experience and gains an additional 1x (after reincarnating) every 100 levels, starting a different class mostly kills your progression until you build the multiplier back up on the new class. I'm not sure what the best fresh starting strategy is but for ascension I reincarnate out of farmer as soon as I am able and switch to freeloader for several runs before playing other classes. Cycling through classes is best delayed until later when it is much faster to get the initial levels and reset (the bonuses you get from raising reincarnation level by staying on the same class far exceed whatever 5-10 talent points per class gets you on the talent tree).

The most important non-intuitive mechanic in the game is that skull awards are per wave, not per kill. This means you almost never want to farm a zone that isn't at 5-6 potatoes/wave and .25-.3 spawn time on skulls page 3. Your progress is frequently limited not by combat power but by your ability to farm skulls. So early in a run you might stop at 1-6 to farm skulls until you can get the upgrades to farm 1-7, then farm the 1-8 upgrades in 1-7. If you just push through to some zone that's at 20 potatoes per wave you will end up with far fewer skulls (and thus fewer skull upgrades) than if you slowly work your way up.

In terms of classes, the only class nodes really worth considering are freeloader's when you are upgrading your item set. In general I avoid playing any class other than freeloader for more than quick 15-30 minute leveling/challenge runs (harvester and rancher's nodes are ok, but then you are spending a bunch of time on a class that's not freeloader). Freeloader is the pick because it gets 2-4x more item drops than other classes and therefore 2-4x more scrap from destroying those items (2x scrap is roughly +10 enchant levels).

pixaal posted:

It's not bad if you naturally hit it. People were upset because it was delayed and every bit of grinding after the point you can ascend was completely pointless and not rewarded.

It leaves a bad taste in your mouth when you were done with the content half way to the patch and basically ran the game for nothing so every oh I'll wait for this to finish it's only 15 minutes to justify watching another episode on netflix then pausing it because yes you were that tired and finishing the next morning. Just did nothing at all to help progression.

I ended up with some very significant bonuses, but they are kind of hidden. High whack score from the whack bonuses on mid area 4 items gives 20+ minute duration autowhack buffs, so you always have 3-4 buffs if you are sort of paying attention. This is probably not something you'll get via normal progression till the end of a3. There is a tiny bonus 1 RP per 50 overcapped levels that happens to work on the absurdly powerful 'weird rules' reincarnation shop perks meaning someone who played to RL5k gets bonuses as if they were 100 RL higher (until softcap). So as you progress through the ascension you'd spend significant amounts of time with 1.5x atk/def, potato, class xp, skulls, and confection when compared with someone who got to 3k and reset.



Len posted:

Wait I have to just grind resurrections until level 3000 before I can ascend? Am I missing something that stops it from just being a miserable slog to gain levels?

Possibly the class path challenges, you should be able to keep them around one area behind the zone you clear in normal runs (so if you are going to 3-8 in normal runs your 6 path challenges should be at 2-8. Skulls and potatoes being the most important). There is also a residue upgrade that reduces the experience required per level based on total residue produced that is extremely important (as well as taking residue nodes to increase your residue income in general).

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Ineptitude posted:

FAPI inventory management is dragging down an otherwise fun idler.

Having to evaluate a full inventory of loot every hour, with little correlation between item level and stat amounts nor item color/rarity and stat amounts is quite a drag.

Any tips on making this less tedious?

It's very different from NGU, you have no reason to ever look at any items that drop other than when you are making a new set to enhance.

Early game you want a maximum rolled reincarnation set from 1-9, then one or two intermediate sets (save the 1-9 set to wear when you reincarnate) from somewhere between 2-2 and 2-5, then a new max reincarnation set from 2-7 (the first time reincarnation shows back up), then new sets every time you can approximately double the base item rating. Use all the shards you have saved since your last set to upgrade your new set to whichever breakpoint of +9/19/29 you are able, then start saving shards for the next one.

As long as you have a high roll of reincarnation xp on every item and 2-3 affixes of every other stat spread across your set you're good other than some edge cases where you might want to get milk, brewing, or whack score on all pieces. Even 'good' stats like class xp and skulls need 2-10x to give .1% reincarnation exp, which is the only stat that actually gives progression--every other stat is just there to trick you into not getting as much as you can of the one good stat that is 100x better.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.
For FAPI Perks in terms of power and ignoring QoL:
A1: Doesn't matter, 5% difference
A2: milk speed > worm speed > poop counts everywhere > potato > keep poop (keep poop does little almost the entire run because you are constantly gaining more poop multipliers), maybe 8h difference from best to worst
A3: milk speed alone is 20-30% faster than anything else, expect to take an extra day if you don't pick it
A4: milk speed alone is 20-25% faster than anything else, expect to take up to a week longer if you don't pick it (not yet clear how slow the end of a4 will be but it looks glacial)

Why is milk speed so much faster? The 100 cost residue upgrade "Reduce the Reincarnation Exp required to level, based on total residue created this ascension" is an infinite progression of 40% more residue reducing xp requirements by 10%, so doubling your residue via milk speed perk gives you ~20% reduced xp per level vs. someone who doesn't have the perk. (This isn't including the stuff you can buy with this extra residue.) Everything else has to go through at least one layer of linear gains with exponential costs before it begins to affect your reincarnation xp.

The other perks aren't bad, but give the most power in the early parts of the game that by A3 are already sped up by the power increases you get via ascending. They do very little at high rl where most of your time is spent. (With poop for example: worm speed gives about 4x poop and 4x larva for 16x production on reincarnation xp, which allows you to get about 100 more levels of reincarnation xp, which is 5% increased reincarnation xp on something you have at 130%-160%, which is less than 4% more reincarnation xp.)

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Ineptitude posted:

FAPI advice?

I have all the dudes at 4000ish, have unlocked the first 4 brewings and have gotten those to ~300ish. About 2m milk, with 70% in atk/def.
I have done challenges 1-7 and gotten class challenges all to 2-4.
Reincarnation level is 1500ish.
All gear has the highest qty of reincarnation exp i have seen for that slot so far.

What is my gameplan now? Just grind for reincarnation levels until i get to 2000 and get access to more reincarnation skills?
Am i better off picking the reincarnation exp key nodes (and thus hampering progress due to less offensive stats) or will i get more gain to reincarnation exp from using those 40 points into offensive talents and being able to progress further?
Are those key nodes that increase all your stats by 1 any good? I have been picking them but it is difficult to see if it gives any immediate benefit and impossible (for me) to math out of they are any good in the long run. They certainly SOUND good.

You runs should be getting you a bit over 640 points so you can now easily get 6 reincarnation nodes and 1 residue node, which will vastly outperform anything else you can do with those points. Once you get to this point in the game you get enough random stuff pathing between reincarnation nodes that you aren't losing much power by ignoring everything else and just getting as many of these two nodes as you can.


KazigluBey posted:

Yeah I figured, although I feel like that probably gets magnified much more once I have that Ascension upgrade that lowers the time it takes for Milk to be produced. This is also one of those specialist one-off builds no? Like how you might want to do a big +Worm Drop/Amount run with Harvester just to push Cows a bit? So in this case I'd do a lengthy run where I pick all Milk Residue nodes and sit on it for a while to push the upgrades, then switch back to the previous build to reap rewards?

Actually now that I think about it my Resurrection build is almost topping off on what I currently want to pick up, so maybe just pivoting it to Milk Residue as the next target would be fine.

Residue accumulates over time and really doesn't have anything to do with milk other than sharing the timer. You absolutely cannot just do a 'residue run,' you have to get residue nodes at the beginning of the run, all the time, on all runs (other than really short/challenge runs.) It's not really that residue is amazingly good but that the tree is the only way you can get more of it Everything else on the tree (other than reinc xp nodes) is already deep into diminishing returns because you have a bunch of it from other sources so the value of their nodes on the tree is extremely low.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Edly posted:

That's been my approach too, they're way too tedious to do more than once. I got 45% in A0 and 75% in A1, will probably procrastinate as long as possible in A2 for the reason you said. Fortunately in A3 they become automated.

It's maybe the worst designed part of the game because even just +1 to all paths gives more of a progression boost than any of the ascension perks a0-a2. So you either have to cycle through them daily all through a0-a2 or just progress extremely slowly.

Sayara posted:

All in all they're nice to have, but there's no reason to sacrifice too much time for 5% more potatoes.

You are misunderstanding what they do, it's not 5% more potatoes, it's 'get +5% from everything you buy with potatoes without increasing the costs.' So 5% atk/hp/class xp/skulls/reincarnation xp while bypassing the potato diminishing returns. You can skip smasher/hoer without much loss but the other 4 are extremely strong.

My good paths were at 3-1 at the end of A1, so in comparison to Agent355's 2-4 paths:
1.56x direct reinc xp just from the one potato/skull upgrade, ignoring all the other upgrades.
2.25x item rating (~1.3x direct reinc xp multiplier)
1.8x residue income (reduces reinc xp required and directly increases reinc xp gained)

I'd roughly estimate that the end of A1 is at least 3 times faster with with 10 paths vs. 4, that's how strong they are.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Bedurndurn posted:

Waiting for reincarnation levels in FAPI loving sucks.

There's no way in hell that progression makes any sense. I'm 15 days into this current one and based on needing another 500 levels I'm still several days away from my goal.

You're basically at the point (a4) where the game goes from 'progress is ok if you just do whatever' to 'you must optimize to progress at faster than glacial speed.' We can help you figure out what's missing if you want (an optimized A4 strategy is about 2x faster).

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Bedurndurn posted:

Sure. This is what I'm mostly running as the freeloader class


For the talent tree, cut anything that's not directly pathing to a residue or reincarnation node. You can probably change that into 11 reincarnation and 6 residue nodes. If you have extra points but can't get another residue/reinc, normal class xp/skull nodes or a larva wheel are the best options.

In your earlier screenshot you were missing a bunch of 200/200 medium zone clears, so if you aren't clearing all those every time that's 10-15% extra multiplier from what you posted.

You basically have to reincarnate twice a day because runs over 12h are mostly wasted. Even if you just push the button and leave everything on autobuy/autoprogress twice a day you'll be way better than the best possible 24h runs.

It may be too late to change things, but high rarity items are another trap in the game due to losing so many materials converting to higher tiers. A mixed set of 3/2/1 starting with minimum rarity (like 3 red, 2 silver, 1 green) from the highest 4-x medium zone with the criteria 'highest reincarnation roll possible, and decent coverage on milk/class xp/skulls' will be a lot stronger because the extra stats you get from higher rarity are much worse than getting higher enhance levels to increase reinc xp.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Orvin posted:

Also, the multiplier for time is not linear. It stays at 0x until 20 or 25 minutes, then it starts ramping up to 1.0x at like 50ish minutes. This multiplier is one of the reasons why just going for super long reincarnations is not the best strategy.

Time Bonus is linear Increases of the same amount from 15 minutes to 2h, 2h to 6h, 6h to 12h, and 12h to 48h.

So a 12h run has 3x the multiplier of a 2h run, but 48h only has 4x the multiplier of a 2h run.

You hit the softcap on confection multiplier a bit before 12h and then transition to the awful 12h-48h time bonus scaling. The combination of the two really kills any runs that go beyond 12h. From 2h to 12h stays generally within 10% of whatever the 'best' point is (but keep in mind early in ascensions short runs are much better because you need to reincarnate to activate the increased passive bonuses gained from higher RL.)

cyrn fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Nov 6, 2022

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

ErIog posted:

IAnd before anyone dings me, no, it's not a real milk respec if your character isn't the one character that gets a lot more milk, same with worms, same with every other system. There is a specific character to interact with each system, and every time you don't do that, you are restricting your progress.

There are a lot of things to criticize the game about but this is... exactly the opposite of how the game works. The class system specific bonuses like milk and worms are intentionally minor to avoid this, to that point that they are all worse than just getting your equipment drop rate cap increased on freeloader.


KazigluBey posted:

Since Residue seems like the biggest deal I feel like going for 3-3 + 3-5 for the team base Residue bonus alongside 3-9 for the % Residue is best? idk, there's people with a better grasp of the game who can probably say if there's better progression load-outs. All these pets are in Zone 3 so it's probably not that bad to target them down?

The pet system actually has added far more interesting decisions into the game than I expected. There's a nice mixture of snapshot pets you don't need to equip all the time, but do need to equip to level (reinc %, item rating, whack) and stuff that accumulates over time (class xp, residue) along with the combos. I expected it to be 'farm 4 pets and ignore the rest' but was pleasantly surprised. I don't think there's going to be a simple best strategy but 3-2 class xp and 3-6 reinc xp are a good first two to farm.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

big cummers ONLY posted:

I started FAPI based on people posting about it ITT. What are the first couple major "walls" where I might be stuck until I look up a guide? This is the first clicker where I'm trying to stay relatively blind but it's hard for me to gauge when my progress is gonna reeeeeally slow down.

There aren't really any walls in the game and you can kind of do whatever before Ascension 4, at that point if you haven't figured out some of the more obtuse game mechanics it's going to be slow going.

This game is the opposite of something like a mario game that teaches you what to do, it will actively mislead you at every turn.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Ineptitude posted:

In FAPI i regret going milk for ascension 3 instead of poop + another upgradee.

Progress is glacial as i don't have any poop assigned until like 4 hours into a run. Instead i have a 28,7 second milk timer, for a whopping 4,5% increase in milk/time. Yay.

Im 4 days into the ascension now and have not yet even gotten to world 3.

Not sure how to help you, but it should take 4 or 5 runs of about 2 hours to get further than you are now (based on that milk timer). The slow progress really doesn't have anything to do with picking milk.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

MarcusSA posted:

In my search for a good cross platform game I came across Melvor Idle. Has anyone given it a shot? It’s got decent enough reviews on steam and the App Store.

This game is an afk runescape simulator, so if you have the runescape memories in your brain for it to hook onto then it's probably a lot of fun. If you don't have a bunch of runescape nostalgia to carry you through the game it's quite mediocre.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Rynoto posted:

Perfect Tower 2 is annoying because with a few balance passes and some polish it would be absolutely excellent. As it is it's still Good for a while.

I still don't understand why they intentionally kept the e308 cap from the first game (at e308 any damage taken kills you and only the few sources of percent-of-max-health damage can do damage so nearly everything in the game suddenly does absolutely nothing.)

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Klungar posted:

Farmer Against Potatoes Idle finally launched on iOS, in case you have been waiting on that. Any tips for someone just starting out?

The game will give you many systems to interact with, and none of them matter except in how they can increase your reincarnation xp. (Residue does this via the xp reduction upgrade and is thus the most valuable stat. Item rating is roughly 1/2 to 1/3 as good as reinc xp, other stats generally at best 1/40 as good as reincarnation xp. The game's stat valuations do not reflect this at all.)
Don't rotate through all the classes until you can reach level 2000ish on one. You get 10x class xp multiplier per 1000 levels and this is better than the few talent points you'd get starting out on different classes with no bonus multiplier.
Runs longer than 12h are basically dead time, and 2h runs are the optimal length until you reach Reinc level 2000 due to compounding effects of the passive RL bonuses.
If you are doing something specific involving the confection system (larva/worms/poop) it needs to give you at least 1000x increase to have a measurable impact.
The repeatable path challenges are tedious but give absurd bonuses, and getting additional completions on paths as often as possible is the key to keeping progress from stalling. This is the worst part the early game but does get automated away later.
The cryptic line on the reincarnation screen "Waves Spawned" is unique waves in every area. This means you want to fully clear every area on the hardest difficulty can you do. (A medium clear counts as an easy clear.)

That's the big stuff new players miss because the game either directly misleads them or poorly communicates. You can figure out good strategies from there.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Sivart13 posted:

I really think every boss should have 1/5 or 1/10th as much health. Enough to see all their dirty tricks, but not so long that you're bringing 70 potions and babysitting it for 10 minutes.

Agreed, once I hit the lightning dungeon first kills on bosses turned into 10-15 minutes repeating the same 30 second loop and the game went directly to 'would not recommend.'

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Malt posted:

I'm sure he doesn't care cause he made his money, but what a way to go out.

More of the same from this dev. They get a lot of players who pick the game up on mobile and a few hundred to fully whale per new content patch looks really good when compared to mobile KMMOs.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Trastion posted:

But the game is pretty bad about explaining anything. I don't have time to go read all the help files or join a discord for an "idle game".

This does not seem like a particularly fair criticism of the game. The mechanics are straightforward and all numbers are available, there's no counterintuitive strategies or out of game information needed to progress, you get popups when you unlock something new that you need to learn about, the next available unlocks are all shown in the UI, etc.

No amount of explanation is going to help people who get stuck because they just forgot about or ignored one or more major game systems (which is both of the last 'stuck in USI' posts). At worst I'd say the game moves at such a slow pace players can forget that it's been a month since they did a research run.

I find it, along with FE000000, one of the idle games most playable with only in game information.

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

CommunityEdition posted:

Ok, my partner is trying to wean off of the iOS Monopoly game because she’s spent a truly inordinate amount of money on it. Is there any idle game for iPhone you can recommend that could substitute? I’m looking for something flashy and cute that can provide a similar skinner-box dopamine rush right now. Paid, microtransactions, doesn’t matter, because I swear that thing is the most merciless exploiter of FOMO and addictive personalities I’ve ever seen and pretty much anything would be an improvement.

Egg, Inc. is one that comes to mind. Unfortunately the criteria of 'flashy and cute' gets rid of almost every game talked about here, and available on iOS hits a lot of the rest. Farmer Against Potato Idle marginally qualifies as cute, and it does have leaderboards and non-manipulative monetization, but has a lot of weird systems.

Stone Story RPG has a lot of aesthetic effort put into it and just released on mobile, but is not cute.

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cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.
Gooboo's combat after the first few resets has gotten pretty bad.

Currently I can:
1. Afk to zone 20 without buying upgrades for 35 every 4 minutes
2. Constantly click upgrades to zone 42 for roughly 200 every ~15 minutes with heirloom drops
3. Farm for hours and get to the high 40s for 300 and a few improved rolls on the last few heirlooms
(Once every 100+ runs there may be a new relic unlock that you do a long run to get.)

Has anyone found anything later that counteracts this? The mechanic at 40 seems like it could depending on future unlocks and reward scaling.

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