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Tibalt posted:All the reporting I've read so far say that the other committees investigating other crimes are going to keep on trucking, but a consensus may be forming around sending articles of impeachment narrowly focused on Ukraine. I disagree about shooting your shot so 'soon'. I think it's less so about removing Trump from office and more so about exposing his co-conspirators to legal liabilities. Impeachment hearings are going to open his people up to so many legal liabilities that it will effectively hamstring him during the election cycle. Also, many are going to think twice about helping Trump commit more crimes if they continue to see him get away with it and his people in court catching cases. For the sake of your job you are going to hitch your cart to Trump during an election year, but are you prepared to back Guilliani to the hilt as he is getting exposed in a court of law? The smart ones will get out(as some already have) and collect easy money in the private sector doing shady things away from the prying eyes of the public. The idiots/co-conspirators will fall the way of the band on the titanic.
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Sep 26, 2019 03:38
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Rabble posted:Haha I’m still at least 75% convinced that Putin manipulated Trump into believing that Biden stole money from Ukraine. That Trump honestly thinks he’s doing the country a favor by “exposing” such an obviously false story. And that Trump blundered his way into extorting Ukraine in a way that makes it look like he’s trying to dig up dirt on his political rivals. Please stop doing this dumb poo poo. I mean every loving time he does some dumb poo poo, people have these same dumb thoughts.
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Sep 26, 2019 22:58
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i think the party does sorta have a narrative, you saw it with nunes and other House chuds. but i think the smarter house chuds and the senate GOP realize that the house of cards is gonna crash down at some point. and now is that point. who knows what will happen but i feel like this might be different. also rudy is basically screaming and going nuts and will probably spill most of the stuff out at some point. hes going to bomb something to distract from this. They can't spin it so they will try to distract people.
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Sep 26, 2019 23:09
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i think at best its gonna be trump, barr and maybe pompeo. volker too. id love miller to be involved. Are you ignoring Trump pointing at Pence and going "but look at what he did!"
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Sep 27, 2019 00:50
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ImpAtom posted:I really genuinely like the idea that we're supposed to worry about Joe Biden dirt and not be like "Yes please, get him out of the race, that'd be awesome." In the same vain this is why Trump is President and he is still in office. Dems will let him skate as he steers the narrative back on whoever his opponent is. Take the popular predictions of "Trump will be impeached but not removed" and follow his likely behavior and its likely conclusions. Trump's situation doesn't really change and Biden (his biggest oppo currently) does. His only problem is that he will sacrifice some of his political allies in the process. Trump will still run for a second term. Trump will still exploit his office for political and personal gain. Republicans by and large will still go to the mat for him. In turn Biden will be 'investigated' in the media in an attempt to flip the narrative. 2020 Dem candidates will definitely see this opportunity and bring it up during the 2020 election cycle causing them to cannibalize each other once again. Which then will aid the 'flip the narrative' strategy until we are no longer talking about Trump's obvious crimes we are talking about Biden's 'maybe' crimes.
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Sep 27, 2019 01:20
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Dapper_Swindler posted:lol. no one cares about biden anymore goon friend. trump keeps digging and for once the dems are shoveling dirt back in and its an insane shitshow. that makes better news than some stupid failson poo poo. How long do you think this last? I mean I hope it does, but I mean the dude obstructed justice and admitted it on national television and yea...
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Sep 27, 2019 01:30
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pacerhimself posted:The only reason people should care about Biden getting dragged up in this is that it's truly a distraction from the real story (for the one time that actually means something) Exactly and folks going "HEY GO AHEAD AND BRING UP BIDEN, gently caress HIM TOO" is stupid.
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Sep 27, 2019 01:34
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Skex posted:I just listened to Gym Jordan get drug live on NPR, poo poo has changed. I also listened to NPR talking about the 'Biden scandal' on my 30 min drive home... I don't know.
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Sep 27, 2019 01:35
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ImpAtom posted:Why? Because you are willingly allowing them to distract the electorate. Keeping the focus on their very real and serious crimes should be of the upmost importance. Like the poo poo they are doing is 'muddying the water' 101. Stop letting them do that.
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Sep 27, 2019 01:37
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ImpAtom posted:No it isn't. If every time they bring up Ukraine and Trump's crimes, you allow them to pivot to Biden and let the discussion devolved into "Is what Joe Biden did a crime?" you are allowing them to do exactly what they want to do.
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Sep 27, 2019 01:43
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ImpAtom posted:So what exactly is your strategy? Keep talking about Trump's criminal activities???
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Sep 27, 2019 01:45
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ImpAtom posted:Oh. They are trying to either force the Whistleblower-s name out or muddy the waters as to how trustworthy they are. That-s depressingly gross. They are doing the same thing they did during the Russia investigation. Like line for line the same exact thing.
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Sep 27, 2019 15:18
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Don't know if this has been posted yet, but I think they got the marching orders. https://twitter.com/GeorgePapa19/status/1177676723594227712 https://twitter.com/GeorgePapa19/status/1177739588250427392
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Sep 28, 2019 14:38
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mdemone posted:Yeah and he chugged while rolling his eyes. That poo poo was classic and I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for that idiot motherfucker. Jonah Hill should play him in the movie.
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Oct 1, 2019 03:26
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Zotix posted:Anyone else feel like Moscow Mitch sees the writing on the table at this point and almost wants to get the impeachment over so that if need be they can get an actual strong Republican candidate on the ticket instead of those that are primarying Trump right now. With Mitch allowing schumers resolution to go through last week with no objection, and then today saying he'd allow an impeachment trial to commence without objection. It almost is as if he knows this info is pretty damning and he's all for getting Trump out, letting whomever takeover for 12 months(Pence or Pelosi) and then getting a real RNC backed candidate up front and center to rival the Dems starting at the beginning of the year. You do know he is squarely in the middle of the Russia poo poo right? Like Deripaska opened an aluminum plant in his state tied to it.
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Oct 1, 2019 04:35
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empty whippet box posted:That seems like a bit of a long shot, obviously the base will "believe" anything they say in the sense that they're just waiting to hear what the thing they're supposed to pretend they believe any time it's brought up is, but other than that type of person, nobody is gonna buy that. There are alot of those types of people in this country, sadly.
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Oct 1, 2019 05:16
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https://twitter.com/leahmcelrath/status/704031610488778753 drat that thread is pretty spot on. Wasnt hard to call however.
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Oct 2, 2019 02:08
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CommieGIR posted:He's only effective at it because he's president. If he wasn't, he'd not have the power or platform to do so. Its a part of the office, not part of him. That was before he was president. He has been doing it forever. Just think about the Trump brand and gold toilet and poo poo. "Trump is what poor people think rich people are" is what was said before his election...
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Oct 2, 2019 02:13
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I still can't grasp after all this poo poo these idiots pulled, this Ukraine poo poo is somehow the thing that is sticking. I mean I understand why, but these folks have done waaaaay worse poo poo.
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Oct 3, 2019 02:20
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ReliableSand posted:So... having observed the utter blatant insanity of the last few days I can’t help but recall some documentaries I saw about Putin’s rise to power that detailed how Putin employed a strategy to secure power that involved more or less overloading the Russian government and general public with blatantly obvious corruption. I need to find the documentary to elaborate on it, but seeing all the insanity with Giuliani I can’t help but wonder if a similar playbook is being run here. TBH, Trump has been doing this since day 1. This is where the 'nothing matters' poo poo comes from. That is also why people hate the 'nothing matters' folks. This is also why I support the 'nothing matters' movement. It gives you a gauge on where we are in this poo poo. If it continues to some individuals off it let's you know that there is still hope. When, it stops pissing people off then it let's you know we are too far gone.
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Oct 3, 2019 04:19
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Rabble posted:Their line of attack is that the whistleblower is a partisan hack, but Trump has already admitted to what the whistleblower alleges. It’s 100% muddying the waters and an attempt to split people into their partisan camps. Atleast the Dems learned to move quick from the Mueller investigation. If the Dems had moved this quick after the Mueller report dropped or when he testified to congress, I think it would have had similar results. Letting them spray their firehose of bullshit lets them and their supporters rationalize their reason for backing Trump. Like you literally keep pressing this dude and watch him crack. He is terrible on defense and the 'counterpuncher' narrative is bullshit .
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Oct 3, 2019 23:11
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There Bias Two posted:I'm so sick of being gaslit by Republicans day in and day out. They continue to spout nonsense so unhinged from reality that you can't establish a common basis for conversation with most people. How the hell do you even try to refute any of this when their reality bubble diverged years ago. You don't. You just trigger them back by talking about the next president being a woman that will take their guns away from them. Just instill into them how hard the pendulum will swing once Trump is out of office.
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Oct 3, 2019 23:15
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Dinosaurs! posted:I get that it’s suspicious and obviously you can do presidential crimes at any hour, but the time stamps were 12:45am -> 1:20am. Yeah the NYT article says the response came after speaking to Trump, but I can’t find anything attributing that to a text elsewhere or Volker’s testimony. I’d hope the NYT has some way to back that up. This is really what gets me with this Presidency. Like, everyone ever reporting/investigating Trump and his crimes needs to be exact and have all their eyes dotted and t's crossed. Yet, Trump doesn't maintain that same responsibility. I mean it is obvious as gently caress that he did what he did. He's admitted to as loving much. Yet, hoping that NYT or an investigator is super thorough with their poo poo is a concern for people. I mean you have multiple witnesses/whistleblowers corroborating what went down and the accused is a known liar and charlatan, but the focus needs to be on the thoroughness of the people reporting on this poo poo.
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Oct 4, 2019 05:21
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Delthalaz posted:Yeah this really seems to be it. Asking foreign countries to involve themselves in US domestic politics is just what the president does now. And if only like 20% of republicans oppose it... uh, I guess it’s going to be a brutal slog until November 2020 if every intelligence agency in the world is digging up poo poo against Biden, Warren, Bernie, whoever. How can you fight back against that? Offer them better stuff? I mean if this is where we are at and Trump says its not a crime, then it should apply to all. Instead of simply targetting Trump, target his congressional allies and do it openly, preferably near the election.
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Oct 4, 2019 05:26
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theflyingorc posted:It might keep Trump in office, but having a plurality think the president should be impeached is not how you win an election. What if he gets a foreign country to rig the vote in the election? What do you do then?
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Oct 4, 2019 05:47
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theflyingorc posted:Good luck changing paper ballots on non-networked machines in Ohio or wherever, I guess? Stuffing a ballot box and obstructing any attempt at an audit is a time-tested method that has proven to work .They just were caught rigging the election in GA and nothing was done about it. The person serving the longest sentence in regards to election interference in 2016 is the person who basically told the public that voting software manufacturers were hacked and they were sending phishing e-mails from their accounts to local election officials.
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Oct 4, 2019 06:00
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theflyingorc posted:They weren't caught, though there is reason to be suspicious. "Suspicious" "Concerns" . Get real my dude, they are literally falling in line behind a guy that has admitted to multiple felonies on national television multiple times. But, rigging voting machines in select precincts in select states is beyond the pale and isn't feasible when you consider state actors? Whatever im going to sleep.
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Oct 4, 2019 06:17
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empty whippet box posted:So on the 19th when the white house refuses to comply with the subpoena for documents, which we absolutely 100% definitely already know is going to happen, at that point is it the DOJ that would have to act to arrest people for it? Or is it someone else? I am totally sure that whoever is supposed to enforce the subpoena is going to toadie out for trump but I don't know if it's barr or what. sgt at arms?
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Oct 6, 2019 22:20
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 Real or fake?
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Oct 7, 2019 00:20
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Mendrian posted:Something I don't understand about the Ukraine call: The whistleblower was a CIA operative....
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Oct 7, 2019 00:34
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CommieGIR posted:It being over is why it's a constitutional crisis because if it's over already because the Congress is powerless then that is a constitutional crisis It isn't a constitutional crisis because there is still checks and balances. The congress is currently choosing not to enforce them.(McConnell is in Congress).
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Oct 8, 2019 22:31
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Celexi posted:How is the congress going to enforce anything? the Sargent at arms will start arresting people single-handily? Impeaching and removal.
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Oct 8, 2019 22:33
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CommieGIR posted:No it is because the Department of Justice will not uphold the checks and balances that it's supposed to be upholding independent from the executive and McConnell is in the Senate not Congress McConnell is a senator. The senate is considered apart of congress...WTF
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Oct 8, 2019 22:34
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Celexi posted:The senate isn't going to convict so there isn't any removal to happen. Yes, but that doesn't mean there is a constitutional crisis.
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Oct 8, 2019 22:35
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CommieGIR posted:You know what I meant the Connell is not the Speaker of the House wording it the way you did frames it all wrong Look man, this concept isn't hard to grasp. Congress still has the ability to impeach and remove members of the executive and the judicial. They are currently refusing to do this. This is a dereliction of their constitutional duties. That power still resides with Congress should they choose to use it. Now, if Trump had been impeached and removed from office and he refused to leave and noone made him leave, that would be a constitutional crisis.
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Oct 8, 2019 22:41
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Aramis posted:What do you think a constitutional crisis is, exactly, if the president getting away with obstruction of justice isn't one? I don't think you understand what constitutional crisis means. Google that poo poo and explain how this constitutes one
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Oct 8, 2019 22:44
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CommieGIR posted:What the f*** do you think this investigation of is about So the solution to a criminal President committing crimes is impeachment and removal. Congress still has that authority but they have currently not elected to invoke that authority. How is this a situation that the constitution is unable to solve?
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Oct 8, 2019 22:47
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CommieGIR posted:I see you're under the pretense that you have to hold a floor vote for an impeachment actually happen rather than an investigation which is really the dumbest hot take of this thread No im of the opinion that this isn't a constitutional crisis and that you just recently learned that the Senate is one of the houses of Congress.
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Oct 8, 2019 22:49
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Lemming posted:You're making a distinction between "a mechanism exists, so there is no crisis" and "there is no possibility for this mechanism to be used, so there's nothing that can be done, which is a crisis" which isn't meaningful or useful. You're just arguing semantics which is pointless. Yes, only one of those is a constitutional crisis. The other is a crisis of character.
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Oct 8, 2019 22:55
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Lemming posted:What are you using as the definition of "constitutional crisis"? The constitution lacking a mechanism to deal with a specific situation.
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Oct 8, 2019 23:00
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