The Tenth Life of BSS X-Thread: Get in, Loser! We're Going to Therapy!

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Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

I like the idea of teams just being whoever was nearby with a relevant power and willing to go on whatever cockamamie adventure the person asking has cooked up.

# ¿ Nov 1, 2019 00:21

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 13:36

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

Side note: I really do want the reason Cable is in Fallen Angels to be that he woke up one night, heard what Cyclops, Wolverine, and Jean get up to, and slowly backed away all the way into the nearest portal.

# ¿ Nov 3, 2019 02:45

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

(X-Force) I'm waiting for The twist to be: "Psychic barriers against two of the four most powerful Earth-born telepaths in the universe? You thought.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2019 17:20

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

Eh, they're the government covert foreign intelligence Agency for Krakoa. That makes them a mutant equivalent to the US covert foreign intelligence agency. That being the CIA. It's a statement of function, not morality. Not like anyone but Kurt would know what anyone was talking about if they said the Mutant BND. Mutant MI6, maybe.

# ¿ Dec 19, 2019 19:17

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

Gologle posted:

It's very weird that they're marketing it as a horror movie, though. How the gently caress can you have a horror movie where your protagonists have superpowers? Part of what makes horror works is how powerless the protags are against the threat. Like, the people in The Grudge can't do poo poo against ghosts, but Magik has a magic sword and spells and stuff.

Characters having powers but being unable to just power their way through the horror scenario makes the horror more intense. It's why some horror movies throw in people who can fight, or people who are armed. Their being no less victimized than the unarmed non-fighters raises the stakes.

# ¿ Jan 9, 2020 05:11

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

I like the idea of current X-Men training up young mutants with similar powers. Not so big on sidekicks in the traditional sense for the kind of thing currently happening in X-Books. And I hope the kids' powers aren't carbon copies so that maybe they get to have several mentors for different aspects of their abilities.

# ¿ Jan 17, 2020 22:33

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

Happy Noodle Boy posted:

Half of the council are former X villains. Hell Shaw isn’t even the worst!

Yeah, but only he and Mr. Sinister always have to be such dicks about it.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2020 23:01

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

twistedmentat posted:

-:A:- is totally behaving.

He's getting everything he's always wanted. Shaw isn't. But if he wasn't, he wouldn't be a dick about misbehaving. Unlike Shaw.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2020 23:38

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

She can control it in Excalibur. Think it's a state of mind thing at this point. If she's feeling alright she can flip a switch.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2020 21:51

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

DivineCoffeeBinge posted:

Comics have always been about the illusion of change, it's baked into the business model by now.

Less illusion of change, I would argue, and more genuine change, but only selectively. The status quo advances, it's just that for every 2 dozen changes, only 1 sticks long term.

# ¿ Jan 31, 2020 05:27

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

Make Juggs a mutant with a super mundane power that has nothing to do with his usual power set.

"Why didn't I ever know before?"

"Cytorrak's magic masked it any time you had it and it's not like anyone was checking just in case when you didn't. Perfect accent comprehension and mimicry doesn't exactly stand out."

Adder Moray fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Feb 9, 2020

# ¿ Feb 9, 2020 02:21

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

Goa Tse-tung posted:

how did Moira convince literally everyone in the leadership that Destiny has to stay dead? just tell that to Mystique

Mystique would not give a poo poo. That os just not who she has ever been. She only cares about the bigger picture insofar as that picture benefits her.

# ¿ Feb 13, 2020 15:06

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

Happy Noodle Boy posted:

It’s cool that they’re addressing the de powered mutants but jesus loving Christ there has got to be a better way.

To quote myself from elsewhere:

quote:

You say that, and then you look over at X-Force where Colossus is contemplating double suicide with Domino to escape his psychological scars.

Aero is no less scarred psychologically. And physiologically she's been violated in a way far deeper and far more permanent than what Colossus has been through. And there are a million other mutants just as scarred, just as violated as she has been. Would you rather they all choose the option of living with that violation when they don't have to if they don't want to? Would you prefer they just line up to be impaled, or hung, or shot, or killed in some way where they are sufficiently helpless to make it seem less like a choice they have made and more like an execution? Or would it be better if they took matters into their own hands privately?

Those are the questions that they are faced with. It's not illegal for any of them to do it themselves. Nor are they barred from Krakoa if they don't have their powers. It's an option for those who want to feel in control of their fate. And without the permanence of actual suicide.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2020 17:27

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

Kingtheninja posted:

I was a little confused about the "will's" part, Are they saying people are asking to be brought back as magneto in some instances? Stuff like that?

Yes. People are putting requests in their wills that are raising a whole bunch of difficult to answer questions.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2020 18:39

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

Rand Brittain posted:

So, looking at Fantastic Four versus X-Men, it's kind of hard to avoid the conclusion that Reed had to dip into being a dick (not that he needs the excuse) because otherwise he'd be obviously in the right?

I mean, giving Reed the benefit of the doubt, he is unable to fix his child's power loss and it's having a profoundly negative effect on Franklin. Meanwhile, Franklin wants to go to Krakoa and is always a gate away from home. They have no reason to suspect them of wanting to hold Franklin against his will and if anyone that isn't Doom or Reed can solve Franklin's problem it's going to be someone on that island.

"But they have a timetable, they could have waited until he was eighteen and went on his own!"

He is losing his powers as we speak, unless Reed WANTS that to happen it makes perfect sense that mutants would be worried about one of their own rapidly growing weaker and it would probably be a good idea to figure out the problem before it has years to metastasize and leave him completely depleted, possibly irrevocably. Whether you think they have an ulterior motive for wanting Franklin to come or not, unless you think they're going to keep him there against his will (and it's not like that's something they even could do if they successfully restore him) then you've got no reason to object to him going if he wants to.

Again, unless you don't want him to have his powers.

# ¿ Feb 27, 2020 03:29

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

Rand Brittain posted:

Or if you think they're a weirdo cult who can't be trusted not to brainwash your child.

Not having powers won't kill him even if you accept that only the X-Men can help, which honestly Reed probably doesn't have to do.

Of course the supposed heroes who sat idly by for a decade while mutants suffered crisis after crisis after crisis, not lifting a finger to help even when their son turned out to be a mutant himself, would think mutants finally getting their own constitutes a "weirdo cult".

Sue's "they're not heroes anymore" really drives the point home. "They're not freely doing for us anymore so they can no longer be trusted." Meanwhile Reed just had that whole spiel about his family not coming back for so long because they were tired of being heroes.

Reed is either incapable and unwilling to seek anyone else's help, or Reed is deliberately intending for Franklin to lose his powers.

Your child losing the use of their legs isn't going to kill them either, you still don't let whatever degenerative disease is causing it to linger.

And yes, that is equivalent. This is a part of who Franklin is that he is slowly losing. Not some extra thing. Not for him.

# ¿ Feb 27, 2020 03:48

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

DivineCoffeeBinge posted:

Saw a remark on Twitter to the effect of "Sue in this miniseries has been written like she wants to speak to the manager of Krakoa" and I found that fairly apt

Perfect description

# ¿ Feb 28, 2020 00:06

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

BrianWilly posted:

Oh it's so unfair to Sue 'cuz I still heart her but...yeah. Pretty much that exactly. And then it turns out her kids aren't there, just like Cyclops said, so, whoopsies Susan! vv Guess you just snuck into someone's house for nothing! But mutants are creeps so it's okay to be creeps at them, right?

I'm a little bit more surprised at Reed's reaction to everything tbh. Back in AvX -- which Hickman also wrote, but I don't blame anyone for trying to forget of course -- Reed had the remarkable mindset that he'd been waiting for...not the mutant takeover exactly, but this sociopolitical forward-shift in society for a while now. It was one of the interesting parts of AvX, that he actually didn't like the rotten society they'd lived in and would welcome someone dragging it kicking and screaming to the future. But now he's like, oh no the mutants are selling medicine! Bich!...do you give out your poo poo for free? I think not!

To continue the theme: If Sue would like to see the manager, Reed would have voted for Obama a third time.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2020 02:59

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

Nessus posted:

You're also getting an interesting sort of nuance with the construction of a mutant identity, or its reconstruction.

Being a mutant means you have the x-gene powers, but then you get people like Aero who lost the power without, presumably, having their genes changed. These people are still considered mutants by Krakoa's rules, but Apocalypse here is also presenting another route of affirmation: "are you willing to fight and die for the sake of being a full-fledged mutant?" She could've stopped at any time, and presumably there are a number of mutants whose "powers" boil down to a disability.

What I thought reading that was, "could a person without the X-gene challenge Apocalypse to 1v1 them to be recognized as a mutant," although that's a pretty long term angle. Presumably you would have to be willing to die and be reborn, possibly with your x-gene activated. But (for instance) Brian Braddock, who has a long term connection to many mutants, a mutant sister and a mutant wife, might give it a go. Though Brian in particular might be able to actually win that fight, so maybe he's not the best example

This is actually an interesting notion. Something I said elsewhere:

quote:

I'd also like to point out the fact that the willingness to fight and die defending Krakoa and your fellow mutants from humans seeking to harm them isn't someone unfounded fear mongering or xenophobia. Humans have been trying to "solve the mutant problem" for years. As individual private organizations and as government funded entities. It took exactly one month before an extermination squad attacked Krakoa, murdered dozens, and assassinated Xavier. Being willing and able to fight for what you are is important, because whether you're prepared or not, you're eventually going to have to.

Taking that idea, it would be interesting to apply it to non-mutants who are family to mutants. Do you love your family enough that you're willing to fight and die for mutantkind? Unlike mutants undertaking the Crucible, there's no benefit for a human except the right to live amongst and be accepted by mutants.

Even more interesting is if humans aren't actually given the right to come back. Stopping just before killing them, healing them back to good health (maybe even better than they were), but immortality is for mutants only.

# ¿ Feb 29, 2020 00:37

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

Clearly Apocalypse built this whole idea for unarmed combat and they were a vote short of approval.

"Swords," says Kurt.

"What?"

"I will vote for Crucible if we do it with swords."

# ¿ Feb 29, 2020 01:12

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

Rand Brittain posted:

I think the main issue with that metaphor is that most Fantastic Four books that are not crossovers with the X-Men are not really written with the idea that there's a huge amount of anti-mutant supervillainy that the Fantastic Four are ignoring.

I mean, you wouldn't write about the tjings your characters aren't paying attention to unless you plan on having them pay attention to those things.

You want to write the FF as a family that cares about mutant rights then you write about them getting involved in that every few years outside of an X-Men crossover. Hell, you just have them mention having gotten involved in it as an off hand comment or background info. A newspaper on a page that's never directly addressed with "Reed Richards Speaks Out on Mutants on Capitol Hill" emblazoned across the headline. Otherwise your characters are ignoring this ongoing problem in their world, even if they aren't doing so maliciously.

Just like in reality.

# ¿ Feb 29, 2020 03:27

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

Update: Vulcan never died

That's some good poo poo and, as long as the documents can continue to be trusted, sets aside that speculation Krakoa did something to him (which I always hated as a notion). He had a traumatic experience, came home, found his brothers ready to welcome him with open arms, despite everything, and now spends half his time being a member of the family and half his time blasted out of his mind with his old team.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2020 01:03

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

amigolupus posted:

I'm still waiting for Kitty's terrible costumes to make an appearance.

Turns out this is why Krakoa is rejecting her. Even it never wants to have to see Sprite again.

# ¿ Mar 25, 2020 06:37

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

TwoPair posted:

A discussion in another thread reminded me that Nightcrawler has been to actual literal heaven so it's weird that he's planning to start a new religion. I mean yeah it's hard to see Jesus' resurrection as anything miraculous when you and all your buddies have basically made death a joke and you can go to the post-resurrection orgy every Friday, but Kurt knows for a fact that Christianity leads to heaven.

Though granted, in Marvel apparently all religions, along with all their heavens and hells, exist and are equally valid.

Kurt's sold on Catholicism, but what good is a faith that promises an eternal reward after death to a people who no longer have to face it?

# ¿ Mar 27, 2020 01:03

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

danbanana posted:

But that's not what Hickman is pushing here. He's saying that resurrection process changed it for Kurt and that's dumb.

That's neither what Hickman is saying nor what Nightcrawler is saying.

Nightcrawler is saying that in the face of their new realities mutants are, culturally, in need of a faith to guide their philosophy and it falls to him, as someone who is both a leader of mutantkind and faithful, to form that faith. It has little to do with Kurt's own beliefs.

# ¿ Mar 27, 2020 14:11

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

danbanana posted:

This is worse! This is like the Pope showing up on Krakoa and being like, "Hey, I'm religious! How about I start a new religion for you guys?"

When the Pope has irrefutable evidence that his faith is not the only valid one, and that it is inapplicable to a large percentage, if not tha majority, of an entire people searching for answers, it'd be pretty irresponsible of him to bang the same gong over and over.

Mutants aren't looking for answers about their eternal souls after death. What does Catholicism have to say about the nature of your memories and astral self being placed inside of a new body? What does it say about your personhood. What does it say about the morality of committing "suicide" when it isn't actually suicide. When you know for a fact that, barring extreme unforseen circumstances, you're going to continue to draw breath on this Earth?

These are questions mutants, as a people, need to grapple with and not questions that Catholicism addresses.

# ¿ Mar 27, 2020 18:21

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

danbanana posted:

Then the best character to address it probably isn't the one with a long-established, particular belief system.

My issue isn't with a "mutant religion" (though I still think that's a weird thing to just start out of the air) but that it's lazy writing to suggest that the person developing it also happens to be the one character who has been most open about his personal religious beliefs. It's out of character for Kurt to suddenly want to be Mutant Mark and put down a Gospel of some sort.

Why not Dani, who has been part of a religious pantheon before? Why not Forge, who has spanned spiritualism and technology in ways that would better fit into Hickman's theme of mutants vs. tech? Why not loving Boom Boom, given the hedonism of Krakoa? There's hundreds of more interesting characters but instead they just went "well, this guy's talked about God before so lets do that!"

The answer to this is

gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

whether or not kurt is the most suitable person, he's definitely the one who would step up and do it. that's just who he is.

this, and specifically because the alternative is

How Wonderful! posted:

Or Exodus, the pre-existing head of.... mutant religion.

Something like this.

# ¿ Mar 27, 2020 18:58

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

jng2058 posted:

That's literally the point. They don't WANT it to be easy. They're trying to DISCOURAGE people dying frivolously.

"You want to skip to the front of the line? Fine, but you have to do something awful and painful. If you just slug down some pills and booze, you go to back of the line and wait for however long it takes us to get through millions of dead Genoshans. If you're not willing to fight for your right to die, maybe you should look into continuing to live as you are."

I think a lot of you are missing an additional point here, or simply choosing to ignore it:

It's an opportunity to die on your feet in a show of determination surrounded by people who care about you. It's meant to feel like a triumph. That you have been tested and have overcome. As opposed to dying feeling weak and alone when you choose to overdose in your room and wait in line until someone in your cohort further ahead in the line of 16,000,000 waiting for resurrection has their number called up and is in need of a companion.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2020 06:54

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

How Wonderful! posted:

Look I've dealt with depression for a long time and I've turned it over in my head all sorts of ways, and I am 99% sure I would rather overdose in my room feeling weak and alone than get chopped apart with a sword by an eight foot tall blue monster man. If the people in the crowd really cared they'd run down and put a stop to the whole farce.

But Melody Guthrie, isn't, as far as we can tell, depressed. She's missing a piece of herself that she wants back. She isn't suicidal, she just wants to be whole again and she's not going to actually die on the other end of this. And she's not trying to become powerful, she's trying to reclaim her identity that was stolen from her against her will. So why would the people in the crowd stop it? To tell her she's not allowed to do it? That she either has to live out the rest of her life until the time of her natural death, to endure her violation unnecessarily, and then be brought back before she's allowed to be her whole self again? That she has to instead go home and down a bottle of pills and go through that instead, that that's the only right way? Lethal injection that isn't actually painless, it just looks that way to outside observers? Maybe you'd prefer that instead of a fight, Apoc or some other mutant just kill her outright?

Which of these is the moral option for someone who wishes to be their whole selves again?

# ¿ Mar 28, 2020 07:34

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

galagazombie posted:

I think you're missing the point. Yes you can "choose" to do this, but it's a false choice when you're offered no alternatives besides "Eat poo poo and wait behind several million Genoshans or live in a society that has open contempt for you now that you can't shoot lasers out your rear end".

I mean, firstly, the back end of this is entirely bullshit. And secondly, you didn't actually address the question. What is the moral option here. Also, how the hell is it a "false" choice?

galagazombie posted:

Saying humans are all the same who are all irredeemable seems pretty racist to me. Almost like saying all mutants are the same is racist.

"No, you see, saying the group that has stood by and let our people suffer multiple genocides without so much as a mass protest are bad is just like them saying we all deserve to die. Both sides!"

# ¿ Mar 28, 2020 10:51

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

How Wonderful! posted:

Let's imagine this scenario without the grandiosity of death being on the line, or the peculiar position that this storyline makes us re-evaluate death in. If there was a story where depowered mutants could get their powers back only after a brutal hazing ritual in which they were mercilessly beaten, wouldn't that seem like naked cruelty?

But it's not hazing. The entire point of hazing is the humiliation and the inability to lash out against those doing the hazing under penalty of being denied the thing you're after.

The point of hazing is the cruelty. And despite Crucible being cruel, I don't think you can argue in good faith that the point of it is cruelty.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2020 11:27

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

People make the mistake of deciding characters who can and will do whatever they want whenever they want with 0 moral compunction factoring into their actions are all interested in being skeevy sex criminals and murderers in the first place.

Give me a character completely lacking in conscience who's still pretty nice to be around until you see what they do to someone they both despise and wouldn't be in trouble for harming. Don't have then enjoy what they do to the person, maybe even have them find it unpleasant, but also show they have no moral qualms about doing it.

# ¿ Apr 6, 2020 09:06

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

"Candied commemoration of Christ's birth!"

# ¿ Apr 8, 2020 17:03

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

I really hope there aren't two Vulcans. I like the idea that, To quote myself:

Adder Moray posted:

He had a traumatic experience, came home, found his brothers ready to welcome him with open arms, despite everything, and now spends half his time being a member of the family and half his time blasted out of his mind with his old team.

# ¿ May 24, 2020 07:49

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

Edge & Christian posted:

I realize I'm not a Summers brother but Vulcan staged a coup and then had Havok imprisoned and tortured for a couple of years and spent his time torturting/mocking him about how much mutants suck while he was blazing a path of genocidal imperialism across the galaxy, that feels like something that's a little hard to hug out off-panel.

I'm just gonna go ahead and point at Apocalypse standing in the corner over there and shrug.

# ¿ May 24, 2020 08:57

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

So a friend of mine is reading HoX/PoX and is doing a write up. She has no more than a surfave level, general population knowledge of X-Men and I am providing next to no context outside of what's in the books. This is a part of the... i don't want to call it an experiment, but experiment. She's done all of HoX #1 so far and I suggested she turn her document into a blog.

Would any of y'all be interested in reading that?

# ¿ Jul 16, 2020 02:57

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

Open Marriage Night posted:

It’d be fun to hear the thoughts of someone that hasn’t been reading X-Men for almost thirty years, or all of Hickman’s Marvel work.

First question is: What brought HoX/PoX to her attention?

I did. Expressly for the purpose of fresh eyes giving it a read and seeing what they got from it.

Anyways, here it is.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2020 13:55

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

Open Marriage Night posted:

This was a fun read. I�ll definitely read more of your friend is inclined to do another page by page write up.

Happening as we speak. She's planning on doing a handful of pages every other day.

# ¿ Jul 20, 2020 01:28

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

It's entirely possible that this is Amahl Farouk sans the Shadow King entity. I was making the argument elsewhere that we know trauma can change the nature of mutant powers. Could be that whatever Amahl's were sans Shadow King they now manifest with the Shadow King effects when he uses them.

(This may or may not be me calling a shot like with Vulcan.)

# ¿ Aug 6, 2020 20:24

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 13:36

Adder Moray: Nov 18, 2010

Skwirl posted:

How many loving times has he died since the reboot?

Every other issue of X-Force I'm pretty sure.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2020 00:05

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > The Tenth Life of BSS X-Thread: Get in, Loser! We're Going to Therapy!

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