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chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

https://twitter.com/bcfrpio/status/1198275123117248512?s=21

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chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

https://twitter.com/unarabegentille/status/1198204876448305152?s=21

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Squalid posted:

safety wasn't much of a priority in the film industry for a long time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbNnYpxbGTk

In this clip Buster Keaton broke his neck while swinging down and opening the spout of a large water tank over his head. They hadn't tested the stunt before and the force of the water was much stronger than expected, smashing Keaton into the ground. Keaton was kind of like Jackie Chan in that he insisted on doing all of his own stunts, and also like Jackie Chan, would severely injure himself repeatedly in the process.


Bonus unrelated clip
https://i.imgur.com/sBi9a2E.mp4

These guys got together with a stuntman friend of theirs to cover some Jackie Chan stunts. Even his most minor fight scenes and stunts involve him brutally abusing himself and taking legit hits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxnWH7zNZpY

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

In high school I did a scene where I was supposed to be thrown onto a small table. We rehearsed it with me going onto it backwards so I could lift myself onto it and roll off safely (in most throws and lifts in film/stage or wrestling, the victim is actually throwing themselves and aiding with the lift). When the time came to perform, he forgot most of his blocking and just hurled me headfirst. I ended up doing the best stunt fall in my life to avoid breaking my arm or neck on that one.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

wheatpuppy posted:

Yes this is actually fairly common. Source: I used to watch a lot of those Extreme Surgery shows.

Yeah, one of the instructors at work has one. They did it decades ago because he's in his 80s and it happened when he was younger.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014


For my new company it was proposed that we do scaffolding training and certification as well. I immediately suggested the Asian market.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014


The perspective really hosed me up on this one at first.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

It should be noted that it is possible to hit targets at greater distances with smoothbore muskets. The problem is you need to use a tightly fitting bullet exactly sized to the bore, and black powder is extremely inefficient and coats the bore with soot after just a few shots. It gets progressively harder and harder to ram the balls down unless you use intentionally undersized bullets. The Brown Bess is nominally .75 caliber but used bullets of .69 caliber that would easily slide through a filthy barrel, at the cost of being completely incapable of hitting a man past 100 yards.

This is also why rifles didn't become a big thing before the Minie ball and breechloaders. Rifling requires that tightly fitting bullet, which for a muzzleloader requires you to keep the barrel scrupulously clean. They could only be issued to small, specialized skirmisher units for precision use. Loading from the breech lets you avoid the problem of muzzleloading, but the technology of the time simply couldn't reliably and cheaply seal the breech against the hot combustion gases. Revolvers were the first solution, but they spray hot gas and possibly lead shavings from the front of the cylinder and you can't really grasp a revolver rifle properly. The Minie ball was the solution: an undersized lead bullet with a hollow base that would expand to grip the rifling when fired, allowing for rifles that were as fast to load as smoothbore muskets.

The final innovation was the metal cartridge case, which expanded to seal the breech during combustion but relaxed afterward to let it be easily extracted. We could have had this in use faster, but at least for revolvers Rollin White patented the bored-through cylinder design and gave Smith & Wesson exclusive permission to use it. He aggressively fought any patent infringement even during the Civil War, which annoyed the gently caress out of the Union. His extension in 1869 got denied because he was needlessly hamstringing the army to protect his profits.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Fallom posted:

No amount of training is going to keep bloodthirsty cops from becoming excited and trigger happy at the thought of doing some kills

That sort of thing has to be addressed during the hiring process, not after

The training does affect it a lot. Police training is infamously antagonistic toward civilians; it emphasizes that not only must cops maintain control of a situation and be the source of power in every single incident without giving any of it up, they get shown videos of people randomly attempting to kill cops during things like traffic stops to tell them "This can happen at any time. Any single person you interact with can just decide to shoot you in the face for no reason." Even the cops who aren't coming into the force as bloodthirsty sociopaths are conditioned to turn into them by making them treat every situation as one where they need to push people around and be ready to kill on the spot, while negotiation more complex than "PUT THE KNIFE ON THE GROUND!!!!!" is pretty much non-existent.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

I think it was Toledo or Cincinnati where the cops were using militarized language in their protocols and teaching officers that police stations are essentially FOBs in hostile occupied territory.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Uthor posted:

I'm not a fan of shaming as punishment, but this seems harmless and funny enough to get a pass.

(also, man up and wear the pink, it's fine, it's just a color)

Having to wear those clods over my shoes when I forget my steel toes is enough for me.

I’ve become a fan of pale pink and lavender shirts lately. Florida is the land of perpetual summer so they fit in well with some gray slacks and desert boots.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

https://twitter.com/Guruleaks1/status/1203754579864825857

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014


Looks like someone didn’t do any calculations before lifting!

If you do end up in a situation where you’re lowering the boom and feel the crane tipping, yank that boom back up. The closer you are to horizontal, the farther out your center of gravity and the less you can hold without tipping over. It’s exactly like trying to pick up a 50 pound weight with a fully outstretched arm vs. lifting straight up with a nearly vertical arm.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Kith posted:

There was a goon claiming to be a crane operator in either the previous OSHA thread or the one prior to that who bragged about how he would either go right up to the weight limits of the cranes he operated on and/or bypass them if he happened to think that the weight limits were purposefully set low to inconvenience experienced experts like himself and (IIRC) said that such behavior regarding weight limits was commonplace.

So maybe the operator in the clip just had a bad case of The Big loving Stupid.

Fun fact: load charts really are often set to about 80% of the actual maximum specifically in case a dumbass like him tries to dance right on the line. That behavior is commonplace because construction is an industry full of toxic masculinity.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

BMan posted:

Hmm, yes, so what you're saying is I can go 25% higher than what it says on the chart

They stopped printing that notice on load charts because that's exactly what happened when people read it.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

EKDS5k posted:

Hot Karl Marx! I remember arguing with him about it right before he got shouted out of the thread. Safety factors on cranes and rigging aren't necessarily even about macho operators. It's for stuff like someone made an honest mistake, like assembled something and forgot to account for the weight of 300 bolts or something. Or maybe your line is starting to wear out or is slightly damaged but it hasn't been noticed yet. Then the macho guy comes along and what used to have 25% more strength than listed only has 10% more, but he knows about the safety factor, and he's definitely smart enough to ignore what it says on the crane!

The macho stuff is still a problem for inexperienced people making honest mistakes because there's a lot of institutional inertia of ignorance. Take a guess when OSHA began requiring accredited certification for crane operators. Same standard as a driver's license.

November 2018. With a few months' delay before enforcement begins to let everyone finish up getting certified. There are still companies over a year later trying to finish certification. Keep that in mind whenever you drive near working cranes.

Before this, at its most strict, it was up to the employer to verify that the operator knew what they were doing. This could mean a lot of things, as nobody was actually required to go to a quality provider that would provide legitimate credentials. As long as you could document it, nobody would really question your provider until an accident occurred and investigations happened, and it turns out you got your qualification from the equivalent of a diploma mill where you paid $80 and did a 4-hour online class.

And the reason all of that happened is because, within maybe two generations, it was common for you to become a crane operator by having an older guy teach you on the job. And that older guy probably learned by having his older guy teach him on the job, and so on back to the Industrial Revolution. It was a complete toss-up if the guy with 30 years of operating experience that you hired actually had any knowledge that wasn't something half-remembered from years ago and was just operating by the seat of his pants, using years of experience on the sticks and a lot of luck to avoid killing himself or others. They tended to be fiercely competitive and protective of their position, which could mean hazing or harassment toward younger operators (especially if those younger operators wanted to follow procedures or pointed out where they were doing something unsafe).

Now OSHA is suddenly requiring certification (only sudden if you paid literally no attention to legislation moving through the industry, because they started work in 1991 on this) and you're being told that your experience ain't no good no more! You have to actually go somewhere and prove that you know what you're doing! If you fail the tests because you've never looked at a load chart in your life and don't know how close OSHA says you're allowed to get to power lines, it's easier to just blame The Man for gouging money out of you or say that the people who made the tests have no clue what they're talking about. The only difference between now and a decade ago is that now they can't just grumble and go back to the job without a certification.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

snugglz posted:

my friend is going to Crane School in February. $9,000, 28 days. it is only the first certification (mobile cranes up to 50k lbs I believe). just the test is $2,000 by itself.

Here's the real secret: virtually all of that is upcharge by the school. The actual cost of certification, depending on which accredited company you go to, is usually around $200-250 for one and then additional exams are a smaller charge to that. You do have to pay practical examiners for their time and equipment and a test site may charge a fee anywhere from $10 a test to $75 a seat, but the actual money going to the certification company is more likely going to be $300 or less per person.

As far as a 28-day course, that sounds like something intended for a person who's a 100% beginner, never touched a crane in their life. A class intended for someone who already knows the basics and just needs additional training to pass certification exams is more likely to be a week long and $700-1000 depending on where you go.

Edit: I should also clarify that training is not a requirement to get certified. If you already think you know everything about what you're doing, you can pay the certification company and then pay the practical examiner whatever to do your little obstacle course. You can have everything done in a few days depending on how you set it up and how good you are.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

The schools are where the real scamming comes in. We're always staying vigilant for places that are trying to outright steal exams, but in general almost all of them are really scummy with how much they charge. You'll find a professional company with two dozen employees in the office that sends trainers all over the world that charges $995 per person as long as they don't have to come to you, and then you'll have a business that's two rednecks running it out of their home office and a garage who rent space in a hotel room or warehouse to teach and charge $1600 per person. Or they'll charge different prices for each person depending on if they like them and add on hundreds in fees for every little thing.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Mistle posted:

A lot of the crane tip videos seem to involve not only weight out beyond lifting points, but also some degree of lateral shift, like in that video the load is at a diagonal to the boom.

Exactly how much does the side-to-side add to the tipping factor?I know extended loads are multiplicative, but what are the ratings on off-centered loads?

The load going diagonal is not supposed to happen and will completely gently caress up any calculations you did. You want to have all of your rigging positioned relative to the center of gravity of the load to ensure that it's stable and centered when lifted and optionally have lines for people on the ground to pull it in the right direction in case it starts twisting. In cases of extreme weights, you can lift with multiple cranes but you're not supposed to let either crane reach over 75% of its net capacity in that case. Cranes also have greater capacity in certain quadrants depending on their configuration and how level they are. Suddenly applying the swing brake, dragging the load on the ground, or operating when not level can all apply sideways force to the boom.

The whole reason we have a certification requirement now is because operating a crane in a way that's 100% guaranteed to never have an accident is really hard. There's a ton of factors involved and a lot of math on the part of the operator and the riggers and lift planners who actually calculate how to safely lift the load and rig it up.

It's hard to judge who's to blame on this one but you'll notice that the crane isn't doing anything but slowly lowering it to the ground. While it does stabilize a little when the wall touches the ground, the wall just keeps falling regardless of the boom trying to keep it up. That means that section of wall was absolutely way too heavy for the crane to be hoisting at that boom length and angle. They probably rigged up the top to the crane while it was flat on the ground to have it lift from horizontal before placing it and the load would partially support itself while it was on the ground, but once the crane had to support 100% of the weight it was too much. When the crane started tipping and the bottom of the wall hit the ground, inertia kept it going.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

twistedmentat posted:

It's absolutely amazing the Soviets didn't realize the deathtrap they were creating, and the fact it was used for 20+ years worth of tanks. I think even the T-90s don't have a much better system.

They probably realized it but figured making a shorter tank with a smaller turret was worth the risk. The goal was to make the smallest target possible that could easily go hull-down behind cover.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

And yes, the USSR generally designed all of their equipment and tactics around WW3. This is why they had a ton of issues in Afghanistan: motorized infantry and tank charges following behind artillery and air strikes across the rolling fields and forests (with soldiers carrying only 3 magazines and staying within 100 meters of reloading in an APC) don’t work as well when the enemy is in the mountains.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Front-discharge are nearly the only ones I see in Florida.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

poo poo POST MALONE posted:

An escape room where you have to throw axes to get out.

I actually did an escape room where you had to reveal a code by shooting targets with a BB gun. Unfortunately it was chained down.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

CRUSTY MINGE posted:

I shucked them in Tennessee when I cooked in a titstaurant. They were... not the freshest.

Fun fact: oysters and lobster were super cheap food for the coastal poor until cheap ice and refrigeration let them be transported across the country. When an Arizona mining town saloon could put out oysters on ice, they became a rich person’s luxury good.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

PHIZ KALIFA posted:

school's closed for an extra week cuz some engineering student who hid in the dorms over xmas break did a YouTube Science Experiment and burned up a microwave trying to make grape plasma

Failed surgery on a grape?

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014


Is it just me or does it somehow feel like the hits are coming even faster now that the bridge is raised?

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Shut up Meg posted:

Everytime I think about getting a bike, I see a video like this and it reminds me that it's not just myself that could kill me, but all those morons in cars.

There's a helmet cam death video on YT (biker's mum gave police permission to release it) and the biker's final breath sound haunts me still.

I still want a bike, but only for short commutes or going into the city. I currently live about 6.5 miles from work and 20 miles from the nearest major city, both accessible by suburban back roads and standard roads through urban sprawl rather than needing to go on the interstate, so having something small and inexpensive would be suitable for most of my driving around with a minimum of dangerous traffic to deal with.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Shut up Meg posted:

I've oft wondered what would happen in the real world if someone did that.

With guns? Depends. If it’s a pistol most holsters cover the trigger so nothing can snag it, so it’s technically safe as long as you don’t do a Tex Grebner. With a rifle? Hope you’re not walking through a jungle getting stuck on branches and vines.

I play airsoft and I do keep the safety off on my pistols on the field, as I use safe holsters and the consequences of accidentally shooting someone with an airsoft pistol are annoyance rather than murder.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Shut up Meg posted:

Specifically this scene and what the captain would do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb5quj6ZhJM

Depends on the branch difference and branches involved. I think that was a Delta operator mocking a Ranger officer? There’s stories of SEALs having a regular officer try to chew them out for being out of regs (long hair, etc.) and basically telling them to gently caress off and complain to their direct superior.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

https://i.imgur.com/SFYhfk6.gifv

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

brugroffil posted:

really struggling to understand the thought process here

You know how squirrels and deer get hit by cars because they instinctively try to cut across a predator's path to confuse them and cars are just way too fast for them?

I think it's that, but really slowly.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Grem posted:

How come they never light poo poo on fire in bars anymore?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8NLgxnVg6U

They still do if you go to the right place. Existing Conditions in NYC by Dave Arnold has electric hot pokers of his own design that they use to stir hot drinks, which also spectacularly burns the alcohol vapors off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MEUjhft7u0

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

https://twitter.com/mugrimm/status/1219314471014936578

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

https://twitter.com/brother_dag/status/1219020371430531072

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

So because my current crane operator certification company is owned by lunatics jeopardizing its continued existence, I've been developing my own company with some of our board members and customers to expand outward into all other equipment. In particular, we're looking at providing forklift certification that requires more serious knowledge and skill (including a practical operating exam) to hopefully push back against all the 4-hour certification courses that people keep marketing. If all goes well we should start getting some safer people out there who don't provide us with amusing/horrifying videos of avoidable accidents.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

PHIZ KALIFA posted:

chitoryu you're an expert, what would be the Sickest Stunts Possible to accomplish with a crane?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy4EUdStL4U

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Shut up Meg posted:

So your business plan relies on companies that will pay more to safeguard their employees, rather than do the bare, legal minimum?

We're doing a wide variety of equipment certification (including scaffolding, diggers, pile drivers, etc.) but there actually is a market for that. Employers will often do the bare legal minimum, but not all of them. Insurance companies in particular are pressing for verifiable certification instead of just 30 minutes of instruction to a kid right out of high school, due to the obviously liability issues when they crash into something or someone and fingers get pointed. There's likely to also be a push in coming years for OSHA to start regulating it more strictly like they do with cranes now, and it'll be better if we're ahead of the curve.

We're also going to be taking advantage of this by forming an association that trainers can join to get access to resources and workshops. Ideally we'll expand into every piece of industrial equipment we can get subject matter experts for.

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chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uQHBIU9Foo

I want to be the guys in charge of setting up all the accident reenactments, because they look suspiciously like they just put a guy on a forklift and told him "gently caress up on purpose and try not to die."

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