FFVII Remake SPOILER THREAD - Pizzagate and Wall Market Street

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FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

so the sephiroth fight was kind of a pushover if you realized early on you could counter his ground melee attack and dodge through his jumping one, and also that heartless angel was an AOE so all you had to do was tag over to your healer occasionally and keep them backed up during that phase. Everything else you can just roll away from often enough that you can heal through the damage of the stuff you don't.

I guess if you didn't have one of the ranged characters in the final battle its way harder though :rip:

# ¿ Apr 27, 2020 11:50

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 14:03

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

BisbyWorl posted:

I actually beefed Heartless Angel and everyone got hit by it, but through sheer chance I queued up a Magnified Curaga right before he started it up and the heal went through after everyone's HP got dropped.

drat that's a stroke of luck right there

# ¿ Apr 27, 2020 14:13

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

I'm imagining they can do something cool with it like they've done with nearly every other track in the game

# ¿ Apr 27, 2020 14:26

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

multijoe posted:

I think it would be good if there's no Sephiroth fight or One Winged Angel in part 2. I understand they wanted to give people a full FFVII experience in this game but they're going to seriously run it into the ground if you have three climactic fights against him at the end of every part.

it's probably gonna be a flashback tbh

# ¿ Apr 27, 2020 14:55

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Ainsley McTree posted:

Maybe. But how many times do you fight Jenova in FFVII throughout the game? They could do the same thing with Sephiroth and have it work. They'd have to do something creative with the music, but you know what, I think I trust them at this point

What, like 4 I think?

Oddly I caught a weird whiff of 8's time-fuckery story in the way they handled the fight against the big purple manifestation of fate itself. They said the three elemental enemies were the will of a (presumably bad) future timeline fighting to ensure it came to pass. What they were fighting was clearly a future in which Jenova, via Sephiroth, won, it clearly involves a meteor wiping out humanity, and that purple thing is probably some godlike manifestation of Jenova once she gets a hold of that sweet sweet lifestream juice.

That's clearly not the plan the planet has for itself, and the game might be taking the story in a direction that leans on a bunch of parallel storyline stuff (e.g. Zack) to set up encounters with Jenova either indirectly or directly so that you're fighting around plot points you already know the outcomes of but in such a way that avoids the doom timeline from winning. Chances are the next game is a flashback that covers Cloud's story from Kalm to Midgar with Zack being either a narrator or the player while Cloud narrates. It's obvious they parted ways with Shinra by that point and in the original story Kalm is where Sephiroth turns villain so it's probably going to be Zack and Cloud vs Sephiroth, they fight him off to save Tifa, and get chased back to Midgar as traitors by Shinra regulars.

# ¿ Apr 27, 2020 16:18

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Oxxidation posted:

nnnno, they were very obviously fighting for the canon timeline of the original FF7, hence why the big-boy whisper kept jamming images of it into the party's heads every time it took a severe injury

Didn't they explicitly say the "500 years later" bit in Red's head was what would happen if they lost?

# ¿ Apr 27, 2020 16:33

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Oxxidation posted:

yes, if the whispers won the fight then that would mean the canon timeline (and by extension the epilogue with red encountering the decayed midgar) would be preserved

the whispers aren't fighting for a "bad" future, just for a known one

None of the meteor scenes show the lifestream/holy shielding the planet.

# ¿ Apr 27, 2020 17:02

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

lol if the game just makes you kill off two decades of fan service content one boss at a time

# ¿ Apr 27, 2020 19:14

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Zarin posted:

Yeah, my first encounter with them and hitting them with the Assess Materia was very much "Holy poo poo, that's basically a mirror-match of this party; are we literally fighting our future selves?" I'm wasn't sure WHY, though; were they satisfied with how things turned out, and are unwilling to risk us/them taking another stab at it, in case things end way worse?

I also guess I need to re-watch Advent Children, because I don't remember poo poo about the three except that they were basically a walking proto-Sephiroth waiting to be able to merge or whatever.

What I find interesting about the ending scene is the timing - my original take was that Zack sees the whispers covering the entire hemisphere of Midgar airspace; ergo, Destiny was intending to deny him entry. Right as he should have been dead, though, they all explode and that's not necessarily on the table anymore. Confusingly, though, the same gold snow falling on Zack is falling on the party and also on the residents trying to rebuild the slums - incidents that should be separated by a week or more, at the very least.

I definitely got FFVIII vibes from the end, where it opens the possibility for the two timelines to work towards each other. (I never actually beat FFVIII, and gave up on it somewhere around the point where I was forced to either finish farming and doing sidequests, or moving on to the final disc; I recall that the whole Laguna arc was very confusing but that they ended up meeting or something?)

FF8 had an evil sorceress (Ultimecia) in the future who was basically able to send a person's mind through time in order to change things in her favor - this involved a succession of sorceresses running the world and iirc they were all basically mind-puppets of the future sorceress. Laguna was squall's dad, and something something it turned out Squall had a sister who could do the time traveling mind poo poo and it was her sending squall's mind back into Laguna's body to try and break the future sorceress's control over the world early on. In the future that sister's brain pattern got turned into a machine that let the sorceress Ultimecia do it too.

Basically it was some Vex poo poo where the future sorceress was wanting to ensure all timelines led to her absolute rule over the universe including some time compression poo poo where she's supposed to basically consolidate all time into a single eternal moment where she's in charge and is also everything.

# ¿ Apr 27, 2020 19:34

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Sapozhnik posted:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3484538&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=2115#post476087312

e: repost for people without archives

aeris being the japanese version of sesame street's mr hooper is a twist I didn't see coming

For reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NjFbz6vGU8

# ¿ Apr 27, 2020 20:10

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Rhonne posted:

Can the next game end with us preventing the Dirge of Cerberus timeline?

monkey's paw curls and now vincent takes the stab meant for aerith

# ¿ Apr 27, 2020 21:21

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Mordiceius posted:

Cannons, however, are real and can hurt you.

pffff naaaaah

*boldly emerges from the sea to stomp towards Midgar*

# ¿ Apr 27, 2020 21:40

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Clarste posted:

Heartless Angel just sets everyone to 1 HP, doesn't it? And he stops attacking for a short while afterward. It doesn't even matter if you've got Magnify-Heal. It's like his least dangerous attack?

He followed Heartless Angel up with some relatively strong projectiles in my experience.

# ¿ Apr 27, 2020 22:46

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

cheetah7071 posted:

Dio is a casino owner who runs a private prison and conscripts labor from it for (at least) chocobo jockeys. Corneo is also bourgeoisie, albeit a big fish in a small pond

One of the running themes in disc 1 of FF7 is you run into town after town that used to have an independent local identity and culture but then Shinra came in and sold them on a mako reactor and now they're a Shinra town like any other. It's not universal--Wutai and Cosmo Canyon remain independent--but the impression I got is that there really aren't any truly widespread organizations other than Shinra. It straight up does not have any competition on the world stage.

This aspect of the world isn't super well thought out and a lot of it is probably just due to the very mundane restrictions of not being able to have more than ten or so towns because art assets are expensive.

That's something I'd forgotten about but given the way they've really refined and sharpened Barret's voice about the economic side effects of Shinra's grip on Midgar It's probably going to get pointed out.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2020 00:20

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

*grinning kid flips a light switch * "Thanks, grandpa!"

# ¿ Apr 28, 2020 01:04

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

"finally the boomers give something back!" *zoom-pan over to a toaster as two slices of golden brown toast pop out of the top*

# ¿ Apr 28, 2020 01:25

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Grizzled Patriarch posted:

lol getting inside looks at writer's room discussions is always so weird. An FF7 set in New York starring Detective Joe.

I'm a big fan of the one time a studio rolled with this kind of idea and ended up with Jean Reno in an onimusha game. Had a FAMAS and all.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2020 03:49

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

cock hero flux posted:

palmer is ugly but hojo, as has been firmly established in canon, is a primal being of raw sexuality that no one can resist

that's clearly because he uses psychoactive drugs to shred your sanity before making his move

# ¿ Apr 28, 2020 04:59

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

multijoe posted:

I also don't want to pay for 5+ full size games just to experience the full story. Releasing it in three parts is already a huge ask.

I mean that's just how episodic stories work though - it isn't as though they're cutting to the "INSERT NEXT DISC" screen and making everyone wait/pay, I think they're capable of splitting a massive epic into discrete story arcs so that it isn't jarring when one ends.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2020 20:29

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

The Unnamed One posted:

Cloud had bitch tits

that's what happens when you're part of a state-run doping program though

# ¿ Apr 28, 2020 21:56

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

I mean FF8 literally has Military Academy high schoolers immediately being deployed as mercenaries into combat zones

FF9 has straight up children running around with a disposable magic robot and a weird old aging knight

# ¿ Apr 29, 2020 07:54

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

cheetah7071 posted:

If you wanna hit my heartstrings seph's gonna have to kill red

he's gonna drop in and murder bugenhagen right before he woulda died of old age anyway

# ¿ Apr 29, 2020 20:46

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Andrast posted:

Gold Saucer is going to be a full 50 hour standalone part

As it drat well should be

# ¿ Apr 29, 2020 21:39

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Flopsy posted:

The problem I have with Black and White sides is it really poo poo up the character presentation in the movie. It was like an excuse for why him and Aerith had to be one dimensional. Also he not so subtly wanted to torture Cloud to death in the film but not before burning the world down around him.

Here he's more like "Oh, I "like" you now and we're going for a ride whether you like it or not.

I guess you could take that quote in the context that instead of simply Godhood he wants Cloud to be with him as his personal witness to it.

Also he's going to need a gently caress buddy in space

cloud being so far the only one with jenova cells able to resist their influence probably drives a lot of that motivation

# ¿ Apr 30, 2020 05:31

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

cock hero flux posted:

literally every member of SOLDIER has jenova cells and is mostly fine

where they all at then

# ¿ Apr 30, 2020 05:58

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Weird BIAS posted:

Roche is fine, yes.

Fine as hell

# ¿ Apr 30, 2020 06:04

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Caidin posted:

He seems a bit team killy. I mean I understand some people are into that but it's still a little worrying.

The only other named SOLDIER is Kunsel yeah? Stood in a hallway, talked to Zack sometimes? He seemed... functional.

Roche only hates cops because they pull him over when he's speeding

# ¿ Apr 30, 2020 06:14

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Augus posted:

"HEY SEPHIROTH, WHY DON'T YOU TAKE A SEAT?"
Aerith descends from the sky in the Forgotten Capital and plunges a steel chair into the back of Sephiroth's head.
Sephiroth kneels over, the light quickly leaving his eyes, he dies silently.
Aerith looks up at a shocked Cloud and smirks.
The black materia falls off of Sephiroth's body and bounces into the waters below as the choir of Those Chosen By The Planet kicks in with perfect timing

# ¿ Apr 30, 2020 14:45

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

JBP posted:

I'm going to be upset when Aerith gets dead. I never really cared before outside of "cool thanks for permanently killing my healer, game", but she's definitely my favourite character alongside Barret and it's going to be very trying.

make barret your healer

# ¿ Apr 30, 2020 14:48

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Oxxidation posted:

unironically the smart option

the best healer is someone who's very hard to kill

yep, he may not have as high of a base magic power but he's ranged and relatively tanky and has steelskin so the first thing I did was load him up with healing poo poo

# ¿ Apr 30, 2020 15:14

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Internet Kraken posted:

Barret is a reckless idiot who's solution to everything is smashing it. The point of his conversation with the President (which I think is a terrible scene but whatever) is to show he hasn't planned things through. Its a reoccurring theme with him; he sees obstacles, breaks them down, but doesn't know what he's going to do afterwards. He hasn't actually thought about a world without Shinra.

Hopefully his character development is going to be thinking ahead, not just above removing problems he sees but also being the solution to what they've created,

I think the way Midgar slums are portrayed in the remake is honestly a huge problem with the narrative. In the original game almost the entirety of the slums are grimy, disgusting, dangerous, and shrouded in darkness. Shinra has literally put the rich above the poor in a physical sense. All of the comforts the people living there experience come at the expense of those below them. Midgar is supposed to be an abomination of a city which is why it has to be destroyed in the resolution of FF7.

The remake undermines that a lot. The slums aren't nearly as dangerous, and they look almost pleasant in some cases. People are obviously still poor but they aren't living in a completely dismal state due to the abuses of those above them. The game tries to claim they are but it doesn't show that at all, and nobody acts like it.

Wtf there's crumbling cement and scrap metal/machinery all over the place, it looks like the topsiders use the undercity as a dump, which is also implied in dialogue. It looks like people with nothing making the best they can out of misery and the only thing missing is one of those piss-yellow tint filters they use in movies to portray "scary poor people city"

# ¿ May 1, 2020 23:38

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Ainsley McTree posted:

It’s not even implied, it’s explicit. On the reactor 5 mission, you see pipes belching smog down onto the slums, and Barrett talks about it just to make sure you notice it just in case you miss it. Then there’s the whole thing with the sun lamps being the only source of light.

Yeah he says it's designed to make poo poo roll downhill as fast as possible there iirc, but I wasn't thinking of the air pollution when talking about the fact that they just throw broken cranes down the hole.

# ¿ May 1, 2020 23:47

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

RatHat posted:

Speaking of Huge materia there’s something I never understood about them in the OG. Were they just side effects of the Mako reactors or were the reactors specifically built to create them?

Also I wonder how Master materia will work in the Remakes, if they exist at all. Since materia don’t split when maxed anymore and you can’t get multiple of some it’d be a much bigger sacrifice to give up all your maxed materia of a type.

Aerith says the church is “a special place”. Maybe it’s above a natural Mako deposit. Presumably her house is the same way. Or it could that the presence of an Ancient nurtures life or something.

Her house and the orphanage, plus I think a decent amount of the connecting alley?

Wouldn't be surprised if it's places she feels happy/safe causing mako/the lifestream to kinda draw up like a shallow aquifer

# ¿ May 2, 2020 00:48

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

gredgie posted:

Sephiroth was injected with Jenova cells whilst in the womb, so he's likely had weird alien eyes from birth, which were then later bathed in good ol' mako.

what was the deal with the Dreamweaver fight

# ¿ May 2, 2020 09:54

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

stev posted:

They needed to get the best battle music in video games in there somehow.

yeah but like what was up with sephiroth turning into jenova/appearing as jenova? If it was a cloud-only thing the party wouldn't be there.

# ¿ May 2, 2020 10:19

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

This ending is truly a test between idealist and materialist schools of philosophy.

Luckily Cloud and co. subscribe to the latter and realize that confronting abstract concepts of Destiny are not the ceiling, or even an end in itself, but simply a roadblock in the way of actually creating material change

when do they sit down and blame the whispers for their own apathy

# ¿ May 3, 2020 07:19

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

turning jenova into a 20+ minute bossfight is like hearing the alameda coliseum recording of freebird for the first time all over again

# ¿ May 3, 2020 09:26

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Flopsy posted:

I can. poo poo man that's a feature he puts in all his creations. That's just how Hojo rolls.

what's Cloud's excuse, dude acts like he's on thorazine and paxil

# ¿ May 4, 2020 01:24

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Rhonne posted:

The real twist of the game is that we've been playing as Zack the whole time.

thats cloud

he's been playing as zack for years

# ¿ May 4, 2020 16:15

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 14:03

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

BaDandy posted:

Cloud even references the Xenogears theme when you find him in Mideel.

That would have been cool to be at those meetings, I think this was also when they came up with the plot bits of Parasite Eve.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpgqzdMmjaw

barret leaping off the highwind and throwing a plot materia at cloud would be pretty rad

e: PE was really poorly served by the technology of the day, the goddamn game opens with the audience of an opera spontaneously bursting into flames and the subsequent panic stampede to exit the building

FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 15:34 on May 8, 2020

# ¿ May 8, 2020 15:29

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > FFVII Remake SPOILER THREAD - Pizzagate and Wall Market Street

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