The Last of Us 2: Remember that time Lowtax posted ITT? [Spoiler Chat]

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > The Last of Us 2: Remember that time Lowtax posted ITT? [Spoiler Chat]

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

Barudak posted:

I want to congratulate Naughty Dog for being another company in a long list of media companies who cant get enough of Lesbians being murdered

Im curious how fast the leakers career is completely destroyed

I loving knew this was going to happen the moment they started really pushing Ellie's new relationship,which is why I was tepid about it

I kinda figured Joel was dying at some point because he wasn't showing up in too many cutscene trailers but killing Ellie off is GoT D&D level edgy bullshit

On the bright side my Bi rear end has finally looped around from the "god this poo poo sucks phase" to the "lol this sucks phase" in terms of bury your gays

I feel like I should stress that this is a game that did not need to be made and they lit in on fire for some weaksauce philosophy points

All those people,so happy when Ellie popped back up,the mountains of fanart,hell just Ellie existing as a character. gently caress that and gently caress you lesbians says Naughty Dog, at least other properties hard retconned that poo poo in their comic versions. How do you walk this back in TLOU? Like there are so many LBGTQ people that are just going to be crushed. Lol this sucks so much

SirKibbles fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Apr 27, 2020

# ¿ Apr 27, 2020 12:35

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 13:19

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

Barudak posted:

The second they showed happy lesbians I was like, oh, the only way this game can surprise me is if they both live and weeeeell

My comrade in suffering ,I see your bullshit detector is strong

MeatwadIsGod posted:

When the earliest gameplay trailers showed off a murderous cult using Biblical phrases I was like "lol are they seriously doing this?"

There's interesting ways to go about that but mega crunch does produce the type of writing necessary to do so

# ¿ Apr 27, 2020 14:03

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

cargohills posted:

You tellin� me that the sequel to the game that ends with you massacring an organisation which seems to be the only hope to stop the apocalypse.... has you play as a bad guy??

You'd have a point if, TLOU1 spoilers the game did tell you that they've done this to like 5 other people and basically are guessing this will work

You're also kind of ignoring that Naughty Dog is pushing the we're so pro LGBTQ,here's Ellie and her new girlfriend,they both horribly die to make some lame rear end point about revenge that's been done 1000 times over. Like if they bring something new to this narrative we'll see but right now gently caress that.

Jimbot posted:

The silver lining of the story being leaked and being pretty awful are all the "THEY SJW'd IT!" takes floating around. Those should put a smile on your face.

It does it's hilarious and then I think about all the LGBTQ peeps happy for the representation and get all :smith:

SirKibbles fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Apr 27, 2020

# ¿ Apr 27, 2020 15:12

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

So was this really done be a disgruntled Dev?

There's still a chance this is fake or it's been change but I am getting major GoT S8 leak vibes from this where everyone is going gently caress off no way and there's a fake version or 2 floating around.

We do know Naughty Dog has been going through killer crunch and people are not happy at all.

Terminal autist posted:

Just to be clear everyone getting worked up over the spoilers played the first game right? The game where the opening protag is a little girl who gets killed minutes later, the post apocalyptic mp game that will sell you "execution dlc". I have sympathy for the LGBTQ portrayal but still wanna hold out for the whole picture a lot of people are playing telephone. IMO this just seems par the course for edgy pretentious poo poo they're gonna have to up the edge somehow most of these beats were pretty evident since they started showing the game

[spoiler] One or both of Ellie or Dinah dying changes the tone completely, TLOU is violent as all hell but there are outside factors bury your gays, the fact that Naughty Dig has been hyping their LGBTQ rep and then kills them both that makes it gross,[spoiler]

Remember what made GoT S8 suck SUPER hard is all the uncomfortable implications and the sheer lack of fucks given towards the source material which is also showing up here

SirKibbles fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Apr 27, 2020

# ¿ Apr 27, 2020 15:16

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

A Sometimes Food posted:

Wow a Naughty Dog game with terrible writing.

Okay sorry, that's my driveby out of the way, I feel like this kind of hackiness is kind of standard for them and it's mostly blowing up because

1. the Funny Games thing. Saying gently caress you to the player is like, something writers that think they're better than they are love to do, and audiences rightly despise it. Doing this and getting something of any quality requires much more skill than ND has and generally needs to have a interesting and compelling purpose to it on top of that skill. This doesn't. And like yeah I didn't like the writing in the Uncharted games and TLOU1 either but they at least were standard enough that the risks were low. If you gently caress up the 'hurt the audience' gambit no one likes the result. Hell even if you do a good job, most people still hate it, it's kind of poison.

2. people are real loving sick of killing off lesbians. Like even among people that don't worry about the political/social justice stuff, it's kinda cliche unless you're actively a bigot.

Like if you want to tell an audience to go gently caress itself you have to nail that and but in the work so the audience goes ohhhhhhh man ,anything short of that will get the pitforks out.

exquisite tea posted:

There's a difference between "bleak" and plain old mean-spirited, which is why Eli Roth is a lovely director and many people are not gonna respond well to this story.

Like where's the hope here? The light at the end of the tunnel?

# ¿ Apr 27, 2020 15:24

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

cargohills posted:

Maybe....... that�s the point....

If that's the point it's just lazy the first game was not this dark . poo poo sucks and then you die takes a killer writing team to pull off and right now it's looking like a whole bunch of cliches that everyone's seen before the game is going to have to nail the writing inbetween these bullet points to not be edgy bullshit

Even if you're doing poo poo sucks and then you die you should be trying to add something new to it. I love me some dark tones and themes I've definitely seen bleaker settings that nailed this so it's possible

The REAL Goobusters posted:

The last of us 2 was a bad idea from the jump lmao

Idk what anyone was expecting.

# ¿ Apr 27, 2020 16:01

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

Nail Rat posted:

Yeah I really don't think that Naughty Dog understands that they made the Fireflies both extremely incompetent and extremely unlikable.

They are hilariously incompetent in the first game. All they do is die. And when you show up, they seem like straight up villains. They were going to send Joel back out into the world without his loving backpack. That's essentially a death sentence. Some thanks, and so much for Marlene's payment.

Why can't you feel the loss of a woman who has already gotten her revenge but has to be stopped by another character from killing a pregnant woman like gently caress off . It's obvious that TLOU3 is just going to end w/ Ellie giving up on killing her or Ellie dying and going she's too far gone. Everything about Abby is unlikable the Fireflies were incompetent assholes why do I care

Internet Kraken posted:

Sure would be nice if people were more outraged by the company's abusive practices rather than the writing being bad.

Is there any path for the game industry to get out of this crunch hell they've created?

Keep leaking the endings, strikes, unions . The weren't paying them like wtf did they expect gently caress these assholes and their plothole ridden story. Like gently caress it if they want to play ball ,play ball people need money right now.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2020 01:15

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

Sudden Loud Noise posted:

I'm genuinely curious what the moral and ethical "message" of the game will be.

Surely, it must be more than "The game is about hate." *15 hours later* "Hate is bad."

This is my main beef with it outside of the hey look how pro LGBT we are the marketing has been it's so lazy and we've heard that particularly lazy take a shitload of times

I really hope people just keep agitating because the games development market in particular has been hosed for a long time . How much you want to bet the writing team is like 3 people like GoT and Mass Effect were?

# ¿ Apr 28, 2020 15:59

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

Oxxidation posted:

this is why pessimistic fiction is needed, because the lack of it leads to blinkered, facile readings like these

the whole point of the last of us was that all the actions that converged in the final chapter - joel's protectiveness, marlene's desperation, and ellie's sacrifice - all came from the same need to find fulfillment in their lives after they'd lost everything else, hence why marlene and ellie both say almost verbatim "this can't be for nothing" at the beginning and end of the sequence. it's the culmination of the game's larger theme that everyone's efforts to survive, physically or spiritually, ironically brutalize everyone around them and accelerate their own immiseration. joel destroys humanity's (faint, futile) hope for a cure because he's protecting his own reason to live, and the ending strongly implies he's also destroyed his relationship with ellie by lying about it. the human race is self-terminating; even its virtues come from a poisoned root. it cannot, should not go on after the end of its civilization

but instead most of its audience kept blithering over whether joel or the fireflies were the bad guys so now we get a sequel that just tapes the original game's point to a half-brick and treats us to a fifteen-hour sequence of it lovingly bashing in a woman's skull. well done!

I guarantee you put more thought into this than they did.

God this and everything to do with Game of thrones Season 5-8 is just like Deja Vu, the no these have to be fake, the people coming up with both better plotlines & easily fixing the plot we already know in like 2 line changes,the weird game of telephone making things worse, the leaked bullet points both probably not being completely awful (that character probably isn't trans it's just some alt-right fucks) and somehow worse (The Dinah being beaten scene has the potential to be reeeeeeeal bad)

Can't forget the pretentious white guy who thinks his simplistic message is the height of art because he won and award or 2 and now he probably can't be questioned in any way

SirKibbles fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Apr 28, 2020

# ¿ Apr 28, 2020 20:36

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

Dewgy posted:

Sure, I'll put it right behind this here spoiler tag: Sike! It was ludonarrative dissonance all along!

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

Amy Hennig's version would have been better.

Seems like there's a common denominator between the projects

A lot of projects have that one person and that one other person who thinks it's them and gets put in charge when the 1st one leaves and poo poo breaks.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2020 20:47

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

Booty Pageant posted:

someone splice the parts where abby brutally murders everyone with hotline miami sfx i'm too lazy

We can't Sony is doing DMCA takedowns of everything actually talking about what in the game (allegedly) Still not a peep about working conditions though

# ¿ Apr 28, 2020 23:01

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

ImpAtom posted:

Joel did not "redeem" himself.

The decision he made was 100% his own. Any after the fact justification doesn't change the fact he would have made the same decision even if it was a 100% success rate.

He is an unrepentant murderer who puts himself and his family above *Anything* else. And that is fine! It makes him a plausible character. A lot of people were onboard the "gently caress anyone who isn't Ellie" train. It doesn't change the fact he made the decision for himself as much as her which is why he has to lie about it in the end.

The reason why you're getting this reaction is because the fireflies are terrible assholes and the developer was dumb enough to put a collectible in that says these guys don't what they're doing

Like that collectible fucks up the entire theme they were going for

edit: Not to mention you're killing people proven to be immune on the chances to save your own rear end.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2020 00:03

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

Stux posted:

this might shock you but that doesnt change anything about joels character or what he did and his motivations for it

It changes how the player views sacrificing Ellie which is going to make the player go " Ellie would've died for nothing so it's good he didn't" because they like Ellie. It makes you agree with Joel even though for the narrative to work they need to see how this has nothing to do with that.

It's bad writing and was a mistake

# ¿ Apr 29, 2020 00:08

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

ImpAtom posted:

The collectible doesn't even say that. At best it says they're not 100% sure it will succeed.

I feel like people went from "it wasn't a sure success and thus isn't worth Ellie's life" to "Actually it had a 100% chance to FAIL" which wasn't something the game ever said either.

It also has nothing to do with Joel's motivations. Joel has no idea what the Firefly's chance of success is when he decides to start murdering people.

The collectible shouldn't exist at all like why introduce that doubt into the plot? I don't think Joel is a good person or he doesn't deserve whatever comes to him. But I can see why players would because the writing team did a bad job at this.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2020 00:14

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

Dewgy posted:

Because video games are idiot tier garbage for lovely babies, OR because ambiguity is interesting. Take your pick, depending on personal preference.

The fact that the writers think that is ambiguous is why they are bad writers, the player is already inclined towards save Ellie don't put your thumb on that part of the scale more.

edit : I just realized the actual gameplay could just be garbage

# ¿ Apr 29, 2020 00:19

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

Stux posted:

purposefully refusing player agency in a medium where there is player agency is a legitimate tool to use and it doesnt make a game fail at being a game regardless of how well that tool was wielded.

But it is bad writing :colbert:

# ¿ Apr 29, 2020 00:27

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

Brother Entropy posted:

i mean usually killing off a character isn't mean to be punishment but like oxx has been saying tlou2 really comes off like naughty dog going 'you idiots, you weren't supposed to react to tlou like that! let's do it again but louder and stupider and more blunt!' so they're gonna make joel worse and ellie worse and try to make people sympathize with the person who brutally kills joel

This is in fact what want he is doing so you can see his true vision. Hatred being the theme is going to be hilarious given all the reasons people are about to be pissed off. Kinda sad seeing that unfold real time would've been gold.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2020 00:34

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

Brother Entropy posted:

i mean usually killing off a character isn't mean to be punishment but like oxx has been saying tlou2 really comes off like naughty dog going 'you idiots, you weren't supposed to react to tlou like that! let's do it again but louder and stupider and more blunt!' so they're gonna make joel worse and ellie worse and try to make people sympathize with the person who brutally kills joel

Also I want to point out that the bolded part never works people see what you're doing and double down out of spite ie : Sylvanas or Dany in GoT

# ¿ Apr 29, 2020 00:41

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

Like definitely getting major GoT D&D vibes from Neil. They did a few things right by accident and now their egos are showing this basic thing presented as this ground breaking idea that people haven't been exposed to. But they have been exposed to the idea and it's been done better so it just comes off as babies first artistic themes.

ErrEff posted:

Excuse me, Neil Druckmann has "abuser of characters" in his twitter bio. Who else can you trust?

I'd honestly have less of a problem if he didn't abuse his characters in such a basic and how to write 101 manner. Like the dialogue is awful.

SirKibbles fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Jun 19, 2020

# ¿ Jun 19, 2020 00:02

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

RottenK posted:

accidentally kills her in self defense after he tries to talk to his mother and she assaults him

that's some good representation, lgbt people love it when lgbt characters in media have awful things happen to them due to bigotry just to make a story darker

As an lgbt person who loves angst I'd like it to be well written,which this is yeah no. Also lol at the marketing surrounding Ellie and her story given how this turns out

# ¿ Jun 19, 2020 00:06

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

Eimi posted:

It was Andromeda that killed my hope, at least of decent LGBT characters, because every LGBT character was handled poorly at best. Though I would love to see DA4 and have it be good but...

And yeah angst can be well written, Madoka is still one of my favorite animes and it's entirely about gayngst. This is just meanspirited.

I think one thing people forget about angst is it still has to make it's point well. If that point is poo poo sucks and nothing matters you as a writer have to point in the work well. Unfortunately the writers TLOU2 is working with are not those writers.

Misery porn can be done well but it's like raunchy jokes or gallows humor. It's really easy to screw it up and just please no one.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2020 00:16

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

Zeta Acosta posted:

Its not symbolism its Neil jerking off on screen HEY GUYS THIS IS SAD! DO YOU GET IT!

Someone please send out a writers PSA that THING BAD or THING SAD is like the bare minimum you have to do for writing and not the whole thing.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2020 03:03

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

If I thought the writers were smarter than they obviously are I'd say that this is a ploy to get a guaranteed sequel because if you played the sequel because you liked Ellie the game just ends on the harshest downer ending. It's like screaming spam twitter/ message boards about Ellie so I can point this out to corporate and say people want more Ellie.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2020 04:38

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

Nail Rat posted:

Abby has her fingers and her SO. And then they drive home that Ellie can't even use the one thing she has left from her own dad(I mean she could, but the game decides she doesn't care enough to actually try I guess).

Abby would only be equally destroyed if there's a post credits where Lev decides he doesn't want to be with someone so angry, and also she somehow loses her thumb by catching it in the outbound motor, and now she can't use her favorite piece of workout equipment so she decides she can never work out again.*

*this isn't a dumb "trans" thing I'm just saying she clearly likes working out

Actually that scene would be stupid as hell but it would be funny enough to redeem a lot of things

The game is so mean to Ellie in comparison to Abby which is why you're getting the Abby always wins jokes.

Yes people get that it's supposed to be they are both destroyed by revenge but when you actually look at what they have left Abby at least has someone to lean on emotionally and hasn't been robbed of a thing she liked to do that held positive memories for her

# ¿ Jun 19, 2020 05:13

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 13:19

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

henpod posted:

Probably not as this is far too balanced amongst 10/10 reviews and the hatred from the rest who got angry that their video game character dad got killed.

Joel is already trending, man when people hit the end of this. I kind of forgot that most people actively avoided leaks. We'll know how bad or positive the reaction to the ending is when Ellie starts trending

DaiJiaTeng posted:

So it seems to me that it's just run-of-the-mill mediocre AAA game that doesn't deserve the praise or the scorn its getting, simply because its mediocrity doesn't even merit a discussion in the first place. If this had been a title unconnected with ND or TLOU franchise, it would probably be forgotten pretty quickly. Anyone else has had such a reaction?

This is the same thing that happened with DMC reboot. If it hadn't been a DMC people wouldn't have even remembered it but because it was it brings all this baggage because people have attachments to the characters.

Hell if it was set in the same universe but didn't involve Ellie and Joel they probably could've gotten less blowback.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2020 08:06

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > The Last of Us 2: Remember that time Lowtax posted ITT? [Spoiler Chat]