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goddamnedtwisto posted:I think empowering the "good ones", and ensuring the "bad ones" suffer consequences, would go a lot further than you think. Of course I absolutely agree we with your other points, but ultimately the problems come because bad people are allowed to act with impunity. Replying from the other thread because it's actually an interesting point about how you deal with racist cops. Now I firmly believe that to address a systemic problem, you need to stop asking who is to blame for wrongdoing and instead ask what's to blame. I'm not talking specifically about police killings and especially not George Floyd, because obviously justice needs to be served in those cases. But more about constant harassment of black people by police, why American police kill people in general, and why departments policing black neighbourhoods are overwhelmingly white. I don't think you can address those things by weeding out 'bad' cops, but they would ideally be weeded out naturally by sweeping reforms. I mean I don't doubt you could make a huge difference if you could efficiently hunt down and punish all the cops who displayed brutality/racism like we have seen in the videos. I just don't think that kind of action is remotely possible unless the system is first ripped apart and remade, and if you ever manage to get to that point these sorts of issues should have already stopped.
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Jun 1, 2020 15:06
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Remember when I wondered less than 24 hours ago how many police would be willing to use real ammunition on protesters? https://twitter.com/GottaLaff/status/1267451009544028167
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Jun 1, 2020 15:24
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Jel Shaker posted:its ok though they "returned fire" Odds on these protests resolving without something that will later be referred to as "The [insert place name] Massacre"?
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Jun 1, 2020 16:08
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thespaceinvader posted:At this point anyone who is calling the police on a black man in america is at the very best, shamefully, pitifully ignorant of the consequences of calling the police on a black man in america, and regardless, is arguably complicit in the consequences. Calling the police on anyone, in any country, should come with the understanding that you might at least ruin their life if not get them or innocent bystanders hurt/killed. The number of times British police have been called for a "welfare concern" and proceeded to straight up murder the person whose welfare they weren't meant to be checking on is not insignificant.
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Jun 1, 2020 16:20
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Manic_Misanthrope posted:Relative to a lot of the world we are. Unfortunately. Minimum two years training to become a police officer in the UK. Minimum three years in Norway. Average (not minimum) training in the US? 34 weeks. Take into account that unlike other countries US cops are routinely issued guns and sent to police a heavily-armed populace, and it's maybe not surprising they do such an abysmal job. ACAB, but some are more B than others.
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Jun 1, 2020 18:00
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goddamnedtwisto posted:But how do you get there from here? Train up entire new forces then just replace the existing ones? I can't imagine anything getting better for *anyone* in that interim period. Maybe it's just a failure of imagination on my part but I can't see anything (absent a large-scale civil war, or some other massive upheaval to society) that lets you rip apart and remake the system without consequences similar to the fallout from a civil war, at least in the short term. Extremely difficult. It has to be top-down reform, similar to how other countries have had success tackling corruption. You would need to replace multiple levels of management, probably including local politicians. Embark on a major programme of recruiting ethnic minority officers. Institute psychological screening for new recruits. Overhaul police training, with a focus on de-escalation and community engagement, and make it much, much longer. De-militarise departments, ditching the scary black uniforms and armoured vehicles and reserve heavy weapons for a select, highly-trained few. Scared cops are dangerous cops, so spend plenty on officer safety but do it the correct way: top-of-the-line body armour, an effective partner system, and large enough departments that backup is rapidly available. Bodycams at all times that can't be disabled. Make sure cops are paid well and feel valued in their jobs. Use some of your new officers to set up an effective internal investigations department. Make it easy for cops who don't want to work under your new system to leave, with early retirement and generous pensions. Honestly there's so much you can do, but a lot of stuff isn't effective unless it's done together and there's just no political will. The posts you and Guava made are also good. You do need functioning social services and healthcare to take that sort of pressure off the police, and to prevent the line becoming blurred between "criminal trying to hurt you" and "mentally ill person in need of help" or even "homeless person trying to exist". There's also a lot of truth to the idea that if you dress someone in a balaclava and tactical gear you reduce their humanity, both to outside viewers and in their own perception. It's a lot easier to be violent if you're viewing the world through a gas mask and know you can't be identified, so ditching that and going for protective but non-threatening uniforms with no face coverings allowed would be a top priority of mine. AutismVaccine posted:Thats the most tinfoily thing i read here for a while. If someone gets stabbed/is in the process of being beaten i'll call the police. If I need a crime number to claim on my insurance i'll make a report to them. What I'm getting at is that reporting petty crimes in progress, or calling the police to try and protect someone's welfare (like the aforementioned mentally ill person) needs to be taken really seriously. People have been killed by the very police officers someone called to make sure they were OK. People have been killed in police chases over a snatched handbag. Not all problems you can call the police about are worth risking the kind of escalation that might result.
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Jun 2, 2020 01:39
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zhar posted:hey jabby i self diagnosed myself with allergic contact dermatitis maybe from using a mouthwash my lips (mainly the bottom one) has swollen massively 2 hrs ago but so far that is the only symptom other than the bit under the tongue being slightly swollen and the front of my tongue too. as it has been a couple of hours should I be ok or should I be worried about anaphylaxis? Unfortunately I can't give you personal medical advice over the internet, but I can say that anaphylaxis usually develops and progresses quickly, so if other symptoms haven't developed in a few hours they're unlikely to appear. If someone had a history of anaphylaxis I might be more concerned, but most mild allergic reactions can be treated with over-the-counter antihistamines. I'd definitely seek medical advice for symptoms like chest tightness, difficulty breathing, difficulty swallowing, or dizziness/lightheadedness however.
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Jun 2, 2020 02:13
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zhar posted:much appreciated, I'm sure it gets annoying having random people request medical advice but as you might imagine I was a little worried. My main question now is that if it does turn into anaphylaxis would someone wake up if they were asleep, or is it worth staying awake to see what happens? I honestly couldn't say any more without knowing your medical history and examining you. Delayed anaphylaxis is unlikely, especially if you have no history of severe allergies, but if you need more reassurance 111 is a good idea.
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Jun 2, 2020 02:43
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Ms Adequate posted:6) Crimes need to be thoroughly reviewed and reformed as well. Both in terms of what constitutes a crime, how a cop handles a crime, and sentencing guidelines (We'll take as read that reforms to what prison is should be included as part of all this). Obviously laws intended as racial cudgels need to go, things like similar drugs being handled differently depending on whether they're predominantly used by white or black people, sentencing being vastly different for white and black people, and so on. When something is still a crime there needs to be some sense in how it's handled. If some kids are raking about doing a vandalism then we can probably have useful structures outside of taking them through the courts to help - see point 4. There's an interesting story from that "Beau of the Fifth Column" youtuber about how a veteran friend of his with PTSD was being hassled for handing out food post-Katrina, and apparently came seconds away from pulling a gun and shooting the cop threatening to arrest him. Cop was only saved because he decided it wasn't worth his time and wandered off. Could be a bullshit story, but I agree with his conclusion that trying to enforce obviously unjust or pointless laws leads to a lot of preventable violence, and cops need to avoid those situations. Side note, his other conclusion which I really liked the phrasing of was: "Do-gooders, at this current time, are doing good out of anger. Don't mess with them." Definitely rings true for me.
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Jun 2, 2020 04:45
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Jippa posted:I'm probably just cynical as gently caress at this point but I reckon this is all probably playing in trump's favour now. I dunno, I feel like at this point whether it's protesters being shot in the face, looting, fires, or police being killed most people probably just chalk it up under "general scary chaos". I don't think any of it plays well for him.
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Jun 2, 2020 09:02
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Definitely feeling you guys on the mental health front. I've been at work throughout this so I don't have the isolation and boredom to cope with, but it's replaced by constant nagging terror of infection and crushingly depressing experiences with patients. I've always been a pretty cheerful guy at work, my mental defences definitely err towards "too detached" rather than "too involved". But the last few weeks I sit down sometimes and this wave of sadness comes over me. Trying to motivate myself to do anything outside of work other than stare at the TV had been hard. There is some comfort in knowing I'm not alone though, I see it in my colleagues as well as you guys. I think it's everywhere. A nurse in the Goon Doctor said a quarter of her ICU is now filled with suicide attempts  We will make it through though. And if any of you are feeling really bad please reach out to someone.
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Jun 2, 2020 09:37
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https://twitter.com/jackmjenkins/status/1267654371032039430 Trump used tear gas on priests. He used tear gas, and concussion grenades, to drive priests away from their church. So he could use it for a photo op. How are people supporting him?! Are there no lines? Read the account though, it's insane imagining this actually happening in America right now.
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Jun 2, 2020 10:03
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thespaceinvader posted:The way I reconcile it is that B99 is (largely) a show about what cops are *supposed to be* but occasionally acknowledges what they *actually are*. I think the fundamental difference between Scrubs and Brooklyn 99 is that Scrubs didn't paint a false picture of the medicine. Doctors almost never heroically save the day, medical mysteries are incredibly rare, and patients die a lot. Half the time they portray the job as boring or depressing. They had a medical consultant on the show at all times, and some of the episodes dealing with medical mistakes, crappy bosses or burnout are scarily accurate even coming from a different country. B99 really doesn't do that, and I'm someone who likes the show. Probably more than half the episodes they quip their way through a gunfight and then bloodlessly rugby-tackle a "perp" to the ground who might as well be wearing a striped shirt and carrying a bag marked "SWAG". Who looks suitably chastised and vanishes from memory as soon as the camera cuts away. For all the serious stuff they do about race, feminism, sexual orientation etc., the actual portrayal of policework and the justice system is incredibly sanitised. It's not even necessarily a flaw, I still enjoy the show. It just means I think of it as a great comedy rather than a great police comedy, whereas Scrubs is 100% a great medical comedy. (Did I mention I love Scrubs? Scrubs is great, and Zach Braff and Donald Faison are currently doing a podcast where they rewatch the old episodes with commentary. It's called "Fake Doctors, Real Friends" and it's a good timekiller)
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Jun 3, 2020 02:12
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Very mixed feelings watching the protests. As a socialist, obviously gently caress yeah. But as a doctor there's something genuinely chilling about watching people merrily spread this disease that I spend every day fighting and watching people die from.
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Jun 4, 2020 02:48
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OwlFancier posted:yes, it will kill them, but the wrong is with the system that makes their protest necessary, that puts in them the need to be out there fighting for their futures, and for all our futures. They know they're at risk which is why they're wearing masks, but they're there anyway because they see no other option. You're acting like it's the people at the protest taking the biggest risk. It's not, it's the vulnerable people they'll spread the virus to. That's why the whole thing makes me so uneasy. It's one thing to say you'll face down a rubber bullet or policeman's boot for your cause, that's putting your life on the line. It's another to say that other people have to lay down their lives, especially when you're talking about groups like the old, the disabled and the already ill.
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Jun 4, 2020 06:04
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Roller Coast Guard posted:As working class Londoners it's likely the protesters are already being forced onto overcrowded enclosed plaguewagons to get to their workplaces (or are about to be when thy reopen) anyway. I'd have thought the risk is lesser in an open street than on the tube every day? Risk of infection doesn't work that way, the risk of an activity is always the same regardless of what other activities you might be doing. For example, I work in the NHS so going to work is by far my biggest infection risk. But when I go to the supermarket that doesn't mean I'm at less risk of catching Covid there than anybody else. The absolute risk is the same for me, its only low relative to my other risks. If anything mass gatherings will have a synergistic effect on the infection rate from public transport use, and vice versa, since that's what happens in an exponential growth system. And again I don't blame people for protesting, it just makes me feel uncomfortable that the protests will have a body count and it will largely be composed of vulnerable people who did not attend the protest.
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Jun 4, 2020 09:42
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"Get more out if you've put more in" is ludicrous and has no place in the benefits system, with the possible exception of people with higher rents needing more housing benefit (although they should be in council houses). It's extremely dangerous rhetoric to use because it invokes taking away benefits from "scroungers" and immigrants, and going back to the deserving and undeserving poor. I agree an extremely charitable reading could say that isn't what he meant, and he's actually saying our current system penalises those who've paid in more by making them ineligible for benefits (because of too many savings). If that's the case, I agree. You shouldn't have to watch your life savings disappear pointlessly before falling into a "safety net". But even so someone definitely needs to have a word about his language.
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Jun 5, 2020 13:24
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XMNN posted:https://twitter.com/jreynoldsMP/status/1268868602192711680?s=20 "It's not necessarily right-wing" talk about damning with faint praise. It's maddening because they're so close to a breakthrough with "voters more likely to vote for benefits if they're universal" but they just have to gently caress it up and go back to talking about scroungers and strivers.
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Jun 5, 2020 14:14
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https://twitter.com/HeatherCherone/status/1269004849477300225 Hahahahahahaha
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Jun 5, 2020 23:56
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OwlFancier posted:You can see why the guy got the job. Boot lodged so firmly down his craw that he turned into a legwarmer. The worst part is he's in charge of deciding whether complaints against cops are valid, and he said he "would not have been able" to show the same restraint they did. So it's extra funny he got brutality'd himself. Ms Adequate posted:And they only just ended days off and stuff a couple of days ago, that number's gonna skyrocket when they've all done a couple of 84 hours weeks being screamed at the whole time for being fash cunts. Yeah the longer the protests go on and the more they spread the better, police can only keep up this kind of "show of force" policing for so long.
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Jun 6, 2020 00:32
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OwlFancier posted:I did wonder if it was official. I hope that even if it was an official thing it might end up serving the cause by just making it more visible, I don't think anyone's gonna be satisfied with a road being painted. But it's there now and either it stays there or they scrape it off without doing anything. Yeah I can understand BLM getting angry if it's coming from a Mayor that refuses policy changes, but I think in and of itself it's a Good Thing. It's done in road paint too (the 'needs burning off' variety) so I'd imagine it will be there a while and might never disappear fully even if they tried to remove it. Also interesting, the NFL have said they were "wrong" for not supporting player's peaceful protest. Although they've stopped short of saying players will now be allowed to take a knee during the anthem. https://twitter.com/NFL/status/1269034074552721408
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Jun 6, 2020 00:36
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Pablo Bluth posted:Obviously this is the internet and SA so I'm being somewhat mischievous but nevertheless I genuinely reject Anthropocentrism and think that pro-Anthropocentrism and anti-racism cannot logically be mutally-held beliefs. Why? Race is a social construct but I'm not sure you can say the same about the difference between humans and animals. Whitey Snipes posted:It'll most likely go down as "Inciting a child under 13 to engage in sexual activity". We've got a few guys on Community Orders because of these vigilante groups, not a fan of them at all - quite a few of them have just found a quasi-legal way to get away with assaulting people because they know almost nobody is going to go to bat for "paedos". Can they actually charge that when the child in question didn't exist? Also where are these vigilante groups getting pictures of underage kids to make fake profiles with?
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Jun 6, 2020 21:57
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Like all TERFs her argument falls apart as soon as you get into "how do you define women?" because they always end up saying intersex people don't matter and therefore can't break their perfect and immutable definition.
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Jun 7, 2020 00:54
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This is a pro watch if you enjoy Mayors being put in their place by protesters. GO HOME TRAITOR. https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1269420894017015808
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Jun 7, 2020 01:23
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https://twitter.com/CateSpice/status/1269408785837129728 This is fun too.
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Jun 7, 2020 01:49
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bessantj posted:That second tweet makes no sense to me. Does she think that recognising trans women means that 'women' ceases to exist as a category? She's been exposed as a massive transphobe, can't defend her initial argument so she's pivoted to the strawman that trans people don't believe in biological sex and are attempting to erase the concept of men and women. Which is quite obvious bollocks since if "men" and "women" didn't exist as concepts you could hardly have trans-men and trans-women, could you?
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Jun 7, 2020 11:08
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stev posted:So she's basically saying she thinks the racist rhetoric was an act to get elected? She probably thinks it's not racist because she wouldn't hesitate to throw while people under a bus either if that's what the electorate wanted.
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Jun 7, 2020 11:56
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Private Speech posted:Being a Caribbean trade port it was an important point of transshipment. Why are you trying to erase shipment?
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Jun 7, 2020 16:52
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https://twitter.com/DawkinsReturns/status/1269661639869153281 Great thread for filling up on fash tears. I especially like this one: https://twitter.com/DawkinsReturns/status/1269662465111003139 I'm using the NHS meaning of "mobilise", so in my head he's just repeatedly trying and failing to get out of his chair.
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Jun 7, 2020 17:51
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Animorphs is an incredible series and the letter K A Applegate wrote to angry fans explaining the ending is even more incredible. Also don't know the reliability of the source but this sure would be something: https://twitter.com/jaywillis/status/1269730657103540225
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Jun 7, 2020 22:25
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Vitamin P posted:That is a really interesting and solid argument god drat. Putting up statues is commemorating history. Tearing them down is making it.
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Jun 7, 2020 23:12
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https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1269756506859339778 Might actually be a thing. I agree it might just take the form of "reform the PD under a different name", but even then it's a means of pushing through meaningful reform. New contracts for cops, new agreements with the police union, a chance to dismiss the worst offenders out of hand. On the other hand if they actually try to embrace the community policing angle it's gonna be one hell of an interesting social experiment.
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Jun 7, 2020 23:38
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OwlFancier posted:I still think the best takedown was the thread pointing out there's literally a scene where hermionie drinks a potion to turn into harry, down to the level of needing his glasses to see, but she still has she/her pronouns. Eh, someone pointed out that this just confirms the view that since Hermione was born as a girl, even changing her body completely into a man doesn't make her male. So it's not quite the dunk it seems since most TERF-ism seems based on the belief that the gender you were assigned at birth absolutely cannot be changed under any circumstances.
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Jun 11, 2020 01:02
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Status report: Got the Covid. Review: Coughing is reminiscent of a mild cold, muscle cramps 8/10, fever is bold but a bit derivative. EDIT: 77 is my oxygen saturation right now. Just kidding, it's fine.
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Jun 12, 2020 22:42
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Guavanaut posted:Hope you get well soon. Yeah handily I bought one of the finger-probe ones a while back and tested it against the ones at work, so I know it's pretty accurate. Thanks for the well-wishes guys, I feel like this was inevitable given conditions at work (cramped, no ability to socially distance from other staff, pathetic PPE). At least I can get it over with.
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Jun 12, 2020 23:09
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Is it weirding anyone else out seeing clashes between the police and the far right? Like guys, they're literally on your side.
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Jun 13, 2020 19:57
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Haven't posted much recently, but I hope this thread survives in some form or another. It's a good thread.
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Jun 24, 2020 23:48
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