|
Yeah, from where I'm standing I'm not in the 'drop everything Project Moon has ever done and salt the earth' camp, but everything I can glean from the scattered bits of information that make any sort of coherent narrative is they made a really lovely choice really quickly and I'm definitely hoping the backlash is going to cause them to re-evaluate. It sounds like they didn't think the international audience would care about any of this but it turns out firing an illustrator for breach of contract when she didn't actually breach contract because a bunch of lovely whiners decided to review-bomb the game and show up at the offices is pretty upsetting to most people invested in the themes of their games. Like, I'm not going to argue with people that feel like this leaves enough of a bad taste in their mouth to ruin their enjoyment, but I'd rather PM realized they done hosed up and tried to turn things around. In other news I literally just started playing Limbus Company and while I'm familiar with the worldbuilding I'm definitely, uh, still figuring out what the hell to do. It's fun!
|
#
¿
Jul 27, 2023 02:32
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 12, 2024 12:53 |
|
|
darkfenrir posted:I'm not in the salt the earth level, but unless they show something (instead of... Ignoring everything) that shows what they have learned and steps to rectify things... I can't support them in good faith anymore 😬😬 Not really the greatest timing for me to have gotten into Limbus Company and spent a bit of money on the new manager pack, if nothing changes I'm probably not going to spend any more money on it even if the story and characters are interesting to me.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 27, 2023 02:56
|
|
|
I really hope the artist is okay, like, physically and mentally and financially.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 27, 2023 03:34
|
|
|
KobunFan posted:...I'd say a Chesed comparison is pretty apt because it's pretty easy to say Daniel hosed up just as badly. ...sorry, getting a call, turns out everything that happened there was bad-
|
|
#
¿
Jul 28, 2023 01:59
|
|
|
KobunFan posted:All Daniel did was soften up Kali and kill a lot of people. If Kali had been in better shape, she might have beaten Binah without the whole, you know, dying thing. I always jokingly rag on Garion for 'cheating' but really that was 90% of her job as far as I can tell - Arbiters aren't just powerhouse fighters you throw at a problem, those are Claws, and I imagine the average Claw isn't dumb. I'm pretty sure in whatever corrupt criminal justice system Arbiters originated from, they were intended to go out and judge problems on an individual basis and apply solutions for those problems, it's just that that's the sort of thing that gets more and more out of whack the more power and less accountability there is, and the City now is so far down that slide I'm pretty sure Garion solved all her cases by killing people and that worked out just fine, to the point it becomes hard to distinguish what the role difference is between a Claw and an Arbiter. But, my point is, even though I'm sure she was more then a match in raw power for many jobs she was sent on, eliminating the Lobotomy Corp lab wasn't actually one of those cases because Kali far outmatched her. That's where an Arbiter's role comes in, Garion calmly assessed the situation and developed a plan that very nearly brought her complete success. It's just unfortunate for everyone she was right about the fact she could make Daniel crack, but I'm sure at that point in her career she'd had a lot of practice. I can't really blame him for giving in, because there's a point, I'm sure, where rationality just goes straight out of your head.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 28, 2023 02:38
|
|
|
Apparently given the strictness of SK labor laws requiring a good reason to fire someone, they're probably also going to have to find that reason based on more than just reblogged twitter posts that got deleted before she was even hired by PM. Not having any familiarity with South Korean labor laws and unions, I'm not sure if they'd have been able to slip that under the radar in a different situation, but it sounds like at least one South Korean union has gotten wind of the situation and is keeping eyes on it. Hopefully that makes it much harder for Vellmori to get hosed over.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 28, 2023 15:51
|
|
|
Endorph posted:Going by their post about it, they have a 'no political posts in accounts associated with the game' statement in the contract. The issue is that she's credited as just vellmori, which is her twitter account, in the game. It probably comes down to if she asked to be credited that way or if they just assumed it, and if any of the posts/RTs are from after she was hired by the company. EDIT: I also think they were just RTs, not actual posts she made herself, but the point is it seems she deleted all political content from her twitter when she started to use it as a professional account, which makes sense to me. I just don't see how that's a contract violation, even if it might be an argument for making a completely fresh portfolio account for artists out there to avoid anyone being able to dig up deleted posts and RTs. PetraCore fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Jul 28, 2023 |
|
#
¿
Jul 28, 2023 17:18
|
|
|
It sounds like the taxpayer money isn't misappropriated, and the labor union is actually claiming that any breach of contract would be more morally serious because of how PM is funded, as there should be an extra layer of accountability. The telephone comes from the fact the Korean term for taxpayer money used with this sort of 'so be responsible with it' rhetoric is blood money, intended in a 'blood, sweat, and tears' sort of way, but when native English speakers hear blood money it's connotation is inherently immoral funding. So what it comes down to is if they fire Vellmori properly or not. Vellmori isn't yet fired and is still getting paid, I think, exactly because of the labor laws in Korea. The CEO has made the intention of firing her clear, but the actual process is still going to ensure legality. The fact people are paying attention hopefully means Vellmori is able to exercise her full rights, which I understand to be substantial in Korea. The union is making it clear to PM that they're watching, ig...? This is just my interpretation from looking at what people are saying, but it sounds like PM isn't improperly funded, at least. EDIT: Of course my ideal outcome would be for them to back down, apologize, and not fire Vellmori at all, as she didn't actually do anything wrong and her art is a great addition to the game. Additionally I'd like KJH to step down or take a lot more responsibility for his behavior, because it's good that PM seems to pay employees well but management shouldn't be throwing temper tantrums, like... at all. PetraCore fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jul 31, 2023 |
|
#
¿
Jul 31, 2023 19:19
|
|
|
At this point I feel pretty lost in the dust trying to follow all the Korean legal stuff so I'm just going to see what happens.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 1, 2023 23:47
|
|
|
As far as I could gather from employee reviews translated on Twitter (aka take with a grain of salt) Project Moon is a company that pays quite well but is also a complete circus as far as high level management, so it might be that Kim Ji-hoon thinks paying well is taking care of employees but just functionally lacks the skills to actually manage people properly, absolute best case scenario. Funny that the thing every employee seems to agree on is that the food is great, though, I think the HamHamPangPang staff must be doing an excellent job.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 3, 2023 23:26
|
|
|
Clarste posted:That is exactly backwards. It's saying they did fire her (legally!) and will sue everyone who said they did anything wrong, ie: the protesters, the news outlets who reported on this and the employees who aired their dirty laundry. It is 100% doubling down on "we did nothing wrong." No matter how you cut it, Kim Ji-hoon needs to step back and hire someone who actually knows how to manage this sort of operation. I think Project Moon puts out some amazing stories and games, and I'm not going to stop being a fan of them as a whole, but I think even with my language barrier it's become pretty clear that the things I like about Project Moon are in spite of poor management, not due to good management.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 4, 2023 01:17
|
|
|
Yinlock posted:with the weirdly poo poo translation it's tough to specify. there were actual news outlets spreading complete bullshit around too, the infamous 11pm phone call thing was from one of those and completely made up iirc so I assume it's directed at them but it's also general enough that it comes off as a "no squealing" threat. how much of this is poo poo translation and how much is the worst possible answer in the universe is unknown
|
|
#
¿
Aug 4, 2023 02:50
|
|
|
Ariamaki posted:Yeah it was mostly for I was talking with a friend about like, the stuff that's unsettling about the G Corp stuff to me isn't even really the buginess - I think insects are pretty interesting in general, even if a lot of them I wouldn't want on me, and there's a lot of traits of insect biology I could see why you'd want to try to mod into a human base. But then you get the fact kids were being recruited/forced into it, the general lack of control people have over their augmentations, the horrors of war, the alienation from society after, and how that plays into a theme of the alienation Gregor feels from his own body. It's good stuff!
|
|
#
¿
Aug 5, 2023 21:14
|
|
/ a chance to put Quixote Cube back into the world, although I did see somebody griping about the GENERAL amount of attention Gregor gets as a character. Somewhere in-between those two points I went `oh yeah that's a good one`.
|
L.U.I.G.I posted:i might be a little stupid but could that be linked to a form of dysphoria? Uuuuh basically I feel like the thing with Gregor's alterations is that, even though he got the 'best case scenario', it ends up externalizing a lot of internal pressures, as well as creating new pressures both as a thing that sets him apart from civilians that they can express disgust at and as a thing that sets him apart from other G Corp soldiers because he was upheld as the perfect poster boy that experiences no difficulties, and every G Corp veteran has experienced such major difficulties post-war that Gregor makes a convenient target for their pain. He's alienated from everyone. I haven't actually read Kafka's The Metamorphosis (yet), but as far as I know the thing about Gregor Samsa waking up and finding himself turned into a horrible vermin (never fully described) is that it's ultimately a tragedy about social alienation and pressures that are then externalized and made worse by a dramatic physical change in circumstances, where Gregor Samsa starts out unhappy with the grind of his job but can't consider doing anything else because he's the only person in his family (father, mother, little sister) that works, and then after he's transformed and can't work they all get jobs and not only do just fine without him but find him to be a burden that they're ultimately relieved to be rid of, while the only person that can bear to interact with him and treat him with sympathy is unrelated to him and didn't even know him beforehand. Like, I can't say much more bc like I said, I haven't actually read it myself, but... there's a lot going on there beyond just the physical metamorphosis and how it impacts Gregor's life (badly!). So Gregor in Limbus Company isn't just alienated by his body, but by the fact he fought on the losing side of a horrific war that's still in people's memories, and the assumptions people make about him because of that despite the fact that he was coerced into joining the war after being experimented on and trained as a literal child. And because his mutation is so mentally linked, it's also really impossible to say how it would be manifesting and how he would feel about it if it wasn't linked to an extremely traumatic period in his life and then used as an excuse to other him. How dysphoric would he be about his arm if it had truly been his choice, and if he hadn't had to learn to use it to kill, and if people didn't use it to discriminate against him? I don't know and neither does Gregor, because he doesn't get to experience that life. EDIT: Like people do pretty extreme things to their bodies in the City, including fully replacing everything but the brain, and some of those people are actually happy with the results. But there's no agency in what happened to Gregor, it was done to him, it's not something he had done.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 6, 2023 02:30
|
|
|
Yinlock posted:i don't think he was ever upheld as the shining poster boy, I mean he was probably intended to be but I think he deserted at some point. IIRC we don't really know many specifics besides that whatever weird bugman brainwashing they did to him didn't quite take properly. A lot of the chapter is pretty vague. I'm not sure if Gregor deserted or just kept his head down and lived out the war, but that scene at least implied to me that his image was being used to push the idea of the perfect supersoldier all the way up until the end of the war, and that the beef the rest of the G Corp vets have with him isn't actually desertion from the war, but what they perceive as desertion from the consequences of the war because he can blend in a lot easier (even though he can't blend in at all, since his arm regrows). Him being a late-war deserter would also fit, though, especially since all the images of his past are filtered through the effects of the Golden Bough and thus rely a lot on his feelings rather than an actual perfect recreation of events. EDIT: The fact every single G Corp veteran knows his name and face and some mention having looked up to him at one point implies to me he was actually used as the perfect propaganda poster boy. He does explicitly get called a deserter, but it's by the leader of a group of veterans who considers the war to not be over because he and his subordinates are left physically unable to leave the war behind and re-integrate into society, so I interpreted that as calling him a deserter because he was working with Limbus Company and not supporting his fellow veterans. 'Looking down on them', even though he doesn't look down on the struggles the other G Corp vets face at all, just their response to the struggles. This is 100% just my interpretation as someone who played through the Canto for the first time just a couple weeks ago, and it's entirely possible he actually deserted at some point and the rumors got out, or that there were rumors of him deserting and he didn't, or whatever. It's pretty ambiguous. SECOND EDIT: One of G Corp Outis' voice lines for talking to her on the main screen actually clarifies this. It's her first chatter line, I grabbed it from the wiki. quote:I never quite expected to meet the man here—our wartime hero who had vanished as soon as the war was over… PetraCore fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Aug 6, 2023 |
|
#
¿
Aug 6, 2023 03:27
|
|
|
Yinlock posted:That might've been G Gregor, though it's hard to tell if the Saluting Soldier Man that ID is based off of was an actual person or an allegory for Gregor's fears of what he would've become if he stuck around till the end Me and my friend were debating if Hermann is actually Gregor's birth mother or even adoptive mother or if she just claims him as her son bc his experiment was the most successful and the conclusion we came to was that from what little we know of her she'd absolutely not slow down at doing stuff like that to a child she raised but also she kind of seems like the kind of person that'd sweep a bunch of kids off the street and experiment on all of them and decide the most successful one was her kid, and either way he's left with her legacy indelibly etched in his body in a way he can't scrub out.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 6, 2023 04:44
|
|
|
Anyone else notice that Demian's weird behavior mirrors and expands on a lot of stuff Enoch did? Who wants to bet Enoch had the Sign too and was also drawn to the Outskirts because of it instead of being orphaned/abandoned like Lisa? EDIT: unfortunately Enoch couldn't rip a giant distorted woman in half without even touching her, nor could he fly. Feels like the pre-Lob Corp timeline would have been pretty different if he could.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 7, 2023 06:02
|
|
|
GilliamYaeger posted:I just think they're outright the same person.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 7, 2023 06:07
|
|
|
I don't mind the new roadmap, especially given how much crunch is usually built into these things and Project Moon is certainly not an exception to that. Plus the Cantos keep getting longer and longer, so it's going to be a hefty amount of content even if Canto V is 'only' as long as Canto IV. Then again, I'm biased because I just started playing recently and I've only just started Canto IV, so I really don't mind having a couple months to work through it and get more resources and level my IDs and stuff. Takes the self-imposed pressure off me.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 8, 2023 22:20
|
|
|
Yeah I like you can use some non-ideal stuff if you like and also it's not like 'just throw three star IDs at the problem' is the best strategy, it seems like you can build some pretty coherent teams with a good mix of IDs. Of course, I am currently mostly shoving three star IDs at things on my first go-through, but in my defense, I got Spicebush Yi Sang really early and he doesn't take hits well but he sure as gently caress dishes them out.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 11, 2023 03:13
|
|
|
L.U.I.G.I posted:I mean, she was apparently mad with the cafe and the usage of WonderLab content in LoR so it was probably the straw that broke the camel back.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 16, 2023 03:09
|
|
|
TeeQueue posted:The last two times they considered removing it, if twitter sources are to be believed, are, respectively: Not asking for permission before using Wonderlab as a HHPP theme is a total clown move. The first issue the artist had (and I believe you it was serious) sounds less like something PM has control of, there's sketchy people in every fandom, but the second thing is something that's entirely on PM and never should have happened in the first place. I google translated the artist's tweets to get the gist of them although obviously that's going to be vague as hell, and it kind of sounded like mimi had hesitated to pull the trigger on requesting Wonderlab be removed because there's a lot of fans of Wonderlab specifically, but that this latest situation was just too far? Obviously I could be interpreting that completely wrong given I used machine translation and don't actually speak Korean, but it makes sense.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 16, 2023 18:23
|
|
|
Ariamaki posted:Looking at her social media she actually went off on a bunch of tirades yelling at artists in the past two days and was generally being pretty rough during it. This removal seems to have less to do with Project Moon and more to do with the artist's personal dislike of people doing NSFW fanart.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 16, 2023 18:28
|
|
|
PetraCore posted:That sounds pretty awkward for everyone, given I'd guess most NSFW artists don't want people that don't want to see NSFW art to be seeking it out, especially the creators of characters. Still, I'm not sure I'd assume her serious dislike for Wonderlab NSFW is the driving factor, but one frustration among many and the one she feels the most able to publicly call out. Just because it's what she's been most reactive about publicly recently doesn't mean it's the only thing upsetting her.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 16, 2023 19:31
|
|
|
L.U.I.G.I posted:I think the problem she had with NSFW content of WonderLab is that it was from Servant of Wrath specifically.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 16, 2023 19:48
|
|
|
Like, I never interpreted Servant of Wrath as a child bc all the other magical girls seem young but definitely adults to me, I thought her personal stylization just trended towards being cartoonishly stubby like certain adult Steven Universe characters. But I'm not defending what seems to have happened here at all.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 16, 2023 20:00
|
|
|
CommunityEdition posted:I mean, the motif of trusting a friendly stranger to a bad end certainly has connotations.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 17, 2023 04:35
|
|
|
Ryoshu is so comedically ultraviolent that when Shrenne got Shrenne'd I immediately assumed Ryoshu had gotten bored and done it before realizing what actually happened, even knowing that Ryoshu prefers leaving heads intact.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2023 00:47
|
|
|
Numbus26 posted:I wonder what terrible and tragic event caused Ryoshu to get into e-cigarettes.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2023 03:01
|
|
|
Probe 17 posted:"Also your daughter was in there, I think"
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2023 23:21
|
|
|
I was so worried about prepping enough for Dongbaek's Spicebush EGO fight, and not for no reason, but the one I managed to win on was like. A perfect slam dunk. W Corp Don Quixote did 200 damage in one hit. Kurokumo Hong Lu still managed to do the most damage, because Ryoshu kept inflicting slash fragility. I didn't lose a clash once. It's a great fight that can spiral very very quickly if you misstep or get unlucky, but man, that was beautiful.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2023 03:26
|
|
|
It's terrible Watson received so much harassment, holy poo poo. I'd say some people take games too seriously, but for those sorts of people I think attacking a real person and trying to give them a complete mental health breakdown is the point, and whatever excuse they come up with is just an attempt to seem justified in it. Translation is inherently going to be something subject to interpretation, especially in languages that aren't very similar to each other. Even in related languages, like French and Spanish, the use of slang and idioms means you're not going to be able to just do a 1:1. I'm monolingual myself, having not really put it enough effort to retain the Spanish I learned in school, but linguistics and translation is a fascinating topic I could spend a lot of time just listening to translators talk about. I know the Canto 4 translation was pretty badly crunched especially for such a wordy Canto, but that's hardly Watson's fault. I fully support him stepping away for his own health and protection but it's just terrible and ridiculous things got to that point to begin with.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 22, 2023 15:32
|
|
|
Yinlock posted:Ch. 4's major story bosses are mostly about punishing you for trying to ignore their gimmicks and focus them down, they're not TOO threatening if you play along(e: and you're leveled and such ofc)
|
|
#
¿
Aug 22, 2023 15:36
|
|
|
What's the reason everyone is so sure for Ryoshu being an adaptation of the lord in the story Hell Screen as well as the painter? The literal meaning of her name? Because the painter was just named Ryoshu in the older story Hell Screen is based off of, and presumably Ryunosuke Akutagawa changed that to Yoshihide in part bc they're alternate readings of the same characters? In personality, Ryoshu maps much more closely to the painter than the lord, being as the lord is cruel and sadistic but covers that in a veneer of being kind and charitable, and he's a notorious sexual abuser. Ryoshu doesn't cover up what she is at all, and like the painter Yoshihide, she has basically zero consideration for social niceties or expectations. The lord has an iron grip on the people around him to the point he'll commit a cruel act in front of everyone and people will bend over backwards to justify why it was actually kind, presumably bc the consequences of not doing so involve getting his attention, whereas Ryoshu doesn't really have that sort of drive for control. Yoshihide and the lord are extremely different characters and it's really hard for me to see Ryoshu as a synthesis of them when so much of her screams 'Yoshihide'.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 22, 2023 19:21
|
|
|
RottenK posted:at the very least they should probably invest some of the apparently pretty good gacha profits they're getting into hiring more staff
|
|
#
¿
Aug 24, 2023 06:02
|
|
|
Meanwhile I'm just happy because the 1300 lunacy got me exactly 69 Ishmael shards. I have all her IDs except Liu Ishmael but I'm hoping to either get Ardor Blossom Star or more shards to dispense it with, so I'm not complaining. I don't really like using the N Corp IDs so ofc I got N Corp Meur and The One Who Grips Faust from the three-star extraction pull. I guess they're good to collect at least?
|
|
#
¿
Aug 28, 2023 16:58
|
|
|
God, it is so fun to watch Farmwatch Dongrang flip around the battlefield, it's going to be amazing to have a Farmwatch EGO on our side.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 29, 2023 03:25
|
|
|
Yinlock posted:tried out W Hong Lu in this week's hard MD, he's not really as much of a team player as he seems but is also kind of a shitwrecker for an 00. will Hong Lu ever manage to complete the "have a bad ID" challenge
|
|
#
¿
Sep 1, 2023 03:02
|
|
|
L.U.I.G.I posted:He does seem to be competant too, just need to think a little bit more when thinking about it. Obviously Project Moon can go pretty far with adaptations, but I expect the thing is that Limbus Heathcliff is an intelligent person who got denied a proper education and forced to deal with so many distractions he couldn't keep up, and he decided if everyone was going to assume he was a dumb brute he wasn't going to fight that anymore, he'd just break their faces. You see flashes of this in his interactions with the other Sinners, and one of the things that seems to wind him up the most is Ishmael assuming he's too stupid to understand the things she's trying to say. So I'm interpreting Seven Heathcliff as someone finally stretching his brain after a long period of intellectual atrophy and enjoying it even if it's hard.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 2, 2023 19:19
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 12, 2024 12:53 |
|
|
Junpei posted:Yeah, the one thing that comes to mind is that Heathcliff actually has a really good instinct of social/group dynamics, and how violence is used: see his reading of the G Corp guys or his wound analysis when they come to that one employee with the Apocalypse Calendar head.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 2, 2023 19:37
|
|