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Coffee? This poll is closed. |
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| Yay! |
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54 | 34.39% |
| Nay. |
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43 | 27.39% |
| O-kay? |
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24 | 15.29% |
| Whatever. |
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36 | 22.93% |
| Total: | 157 votes | ||
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Not sure where the best place to bitch about this is but why the hell are all the reviews of Mushoku Tensei so positive!? Like, seriously. In addition to all the stuff about isekai shows I normally hate the main character is gross as hell (highlights include perving on his nanny AND mom as a baby, stealing his teacher's underwear and hoarding/obsessing over it for years, bonding with his deadbeat dad over cheating on his wife and accidentally doing a sexual assault on his friend at one point), it can't think of any topic to explore that isn't it's incredibly generic magic system or how horny everybody is all the time, and five episodes in I'm still not sure what the actual plot of supposed to be. It wants to be a serious examination of the Hikikomori mindset but it never seriously interrogates the main character's worst flaws and instead just indulges the worst kind of casually misogynistic narcissism that sort of person is likely indulge in, all while having this weirdly pretentious prestige TV tone it in no way deserves. Yet despite this every review I've seen is like "Oh poo poo son this is a game changer! BEST ANIME OF THE YEAR!" and my brain just can't process it. I get liking trash for horny reasons but people seem to think this is actually good or some reason. It's super weird.  (OK, I've gotten that out of my system. You may resume your business.) Larryb posted:So having finally finished Yu Yu Hakusho for the first time I was curious, is Hunter X Hunter any good? If so, should I watch the 1999 anime, the 2011 anime, or just read the manga? Hunter X Hunter is The Best Manga and I highly recommend it. I can't really recommend the 99 series despite it having it's charms (it had to censor/rewrite several scenes to keep things from getting too violent) but the 2011 anime is very, very good and also covers way more material anyways.
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Feb 8, 2021 23:28
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| # ¿ May 12, 2024 06:33 |
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Larryb posted:I see the manga is still going, where should I start after finishing the anime? Also what’s the difference between the ‘99 and 2011 versions? Honestly after watching the anime I'd just read the manga from ch1. The art is incredible (at least the art released in the actual books vs SJ magazine, long story) and the plot is good enough to warrant a second read through. I should warn you though that the manga is on an eternal hiatus and only updates a few chapters every couple years (they are crazy good chapters though). Thankfully the World Tree epilogue that the 2011 anime ends on is a nice stopping point so you are free to just pretend the series ends there if you'd like. As for the differences between the 99 and 11 anime? Not sure, it's been like a decade since I watched it. I mostly remember that the gore was heavily censored and several important scenes were rewritten. Also the animation is kind of poo poo compared to the 2011 anime.
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Feb 8, 2021 23:36
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Endorph posted:and frankly 'correct morals' are something the vast, vast majority of people are not looking for and do not care about when considering what media to consume and enjoy. this does not mean you cant criticize it on moral grounds but you have to realize you're in a minority Oh I completely understand that most people don't think about their media too deeply. Hell, I watch a ton of trash myself. It still bugs the poo poo out of me though and I think bears mentioning. Particularly the casual misogyny that's all over the drat place in anime but for some reason never seems to get properly called out within the community.  Fake edit: Oh! Also the weird way a lot of anime likes to elevate/nakedly profit off of horny shut-in nerds while refusing to examine the toxic aspects of that kind of fandom. There's a lot of parallels to how media deals with "the gamers" here in the US actually now that I think about it. dogsicle posted:there will always be people championing some stupid seasonal for whatever reason like being 14, or mentally 14, or just having no taste I'll agree that the show is well produced at least. I find it very hard to like most of the characters though due to how much awful crap they tolerate.
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Feb 9, 2021 01:22
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Space Flower posted:I'd say I've watched countless more that have that examination or self-awareness of what's going on. Mostly because anime and adjacent media are mostly written and drawn by horny shut-in nerds. I think I'd need to ask for specific examples to riff off if you wanted to go anywhere with that I'm not saying that *literally all* isekai anime is bad just to be clear. Re:Zero, for example, does a very good job of actually unpacking a lot of the genre tropes and taking an honest look at them. I can also point to series like Escaflowne that do the genre well by just telling a good story and avoiding all the exploitative cringe (the fact that the show is more geared at girls probably played a role in this I suspect). But you have to admit that there's a LOT of bullshit in the genre as well. As for specific examples of series that do things poorly? Here's a few examples that I have in mind when discussing the genre (disclaimer: I'm still working through some of these so it's entirely possible that they get super woke later, though I kind of doubt it): -Slime anime: I kind of like it for a variety of reasons but it still has many of the tropes we're talking about like horny character designs and a nerd who is actually the chosen one because he's good at video games. -Konosuba: Is supposed to be a parody of isekai anime but mostly just does isekai tropes but worse. It's also another case of the main character accidentally doing a sexual assault which should not be this common of a trope. -Goblin Slayer: OK, so it doesn't really have the main character getting transported to another world but still shares a lot of DNA including a world and magic system that basically run on video game logic and girls with redonkulous boobs that undermine the otherwise serious tone the series is going for. Also I feel like I could argue that the GS himself is basically a fantasy version of a shut-in nerd. Digimon: Not the worst offender but certain seasons/games really lean into the fanservicy poo poo. I remember that in Xros Wars they screw over the girl side character by not giving them a top level evolution for literally no reason even though the male side character did. It also has some aggressively horny designs for a kids show -Sword Art Online: So much of what I hate in the genre came from this one. We could dedicate an entire thread to dissecting all the bullshit in it but for obvious reasons maybe the less said about it the better  Also just to be clear I'm not by default against having attractive characters or sexually explicit material. You can certainly incorporate these elements into age-appropriate series in a way that has healthy attitudes about sex and women while feeling organic. However a lot of the stuff I see in anime feels very... exploitative for lack of a better word. It's stuff designed primarily to cater to/turn on teenage boys to generate cheap sales at the expense of other aspects of a show. poo poo like this basically:  Again, this is a game for children. I don't think seeing boobs magically turns kids into degenerates but I *do* think that this kind of thing being so common is a problem and sends some pretty bad signals about women and their role in society and men's lives. At the very least it's indicative of deeper problems in Japanese (and American if we're being honest) culture that need to be addressed at some point. Remember, the same culture that produced Mushoku also produced poo poo like this which isn't exactly uncommon: quote:"If we increase the number of female board members, we have to make sure their speaking time is restricted somewhat, they have difficulty finishing, which is annoying," said Mori, according to Reuters. "We have about seven women at the organizing committee but everyone understands their place." Space Flower posted:the topic-starter anime Mushoku Tensei is about a guy who was ostracized by the 'normal' of society until he lost even the connection of his family and his last attempt to reach out to a person ended in his death, thus predicating the show on the suggestion that the only place where he can be happy is in an anime fantasy world. The whole notion of isekai and its upsurge is steeped in awareness of these toxicities, really. I'm not sure most series are really though (Mushoku certainly isn't)? At least not in a particularly useful way. They seem to be aware that there are external factors that lead to hardcore otaku and shut-in culture (because you are correct that anime tends to be made by people that only ever consume anime) but there's rarely a real societal/class/political analysis of how these people get made, nor any honest look at the real downsides of holding these attitudes. One of the big reasons I hold up Re:Zero as a good isekai is because the protagonist's video game knowledge and lovely "nice guy" attitudes are actually a huge liability and literally get him dumped and murdered on several occasions. No, understanding genre tropes and min/maxing stats would not make you better at surviving in another more "primitive" culture. However telling the audience that directly would kind of kill the escapism of it all so most series aren't really willing to go there. Which is too bad because that's literally the most interesting thing these series have to offer. readingatwork fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Feb 9, 2021 |
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Feb 9, 2021 04:53
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Endorph posted:coincidentally, with sao starting in late 2002, guess what aired in early 2002 OP still slaps 20 years later. I just wish the anime itself were more than a glorified opening cutscene for the video games.
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Feb 12, 2021 17:20
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Have I bitched about how bloated and awkward anime titles are getting recently? gently caress it I'm doing it again.   Also the Terrible Writing Advice guy kind of nailed what was bugging me about Isekai shows a while back and the timing on the release is so close to our discussion that I'm now convinced that they're a secret goon. I'm on to you secret goon! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbRxeJXpNOE
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Feb 16, 2021 20:08
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Waffleman_ posted:I am begging light novel authors to think about fantasy narratives in any other context than a video game I'd settle for a new genre of video game at this point. Maybe a guy gets hit by a big rig and is transported to Truck Simulator 2017. DoubleDonut posted:it's that capitalism sucks and seems insurmountable op It's incredible how many Isekais either aren't aware of this or are unwilling to talk about it frankly. Being a kid in Japan kind of sucks when you think about it. You don't just have to spend your senior year stressing about SATs, you also get to freak out over getting into a prestigious high school and a good middle school before that. That's basically half your childhood spent pulling overtime and stressing out over entrance exams so that you can get a job you'll spend 12 hours a day at in order to support a family that you'll never see. Is it really any shock that so many people just drop out of society all together and just watch anime porn in their man caves all day (or deeply sympathize with characters who do)? It's a shame because despite there being like 500 ongoing Isekai titles at the moment there's still a lot of ripe ground for a series willing to look at Japanese bluntly. I'd watch the gently caress out of a Marxist take on the genre.
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Feb 16, 2021 21:29
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Endorph posted:yeah isekai is bad but idk why people are acting like the problem with a genre where people get to feel like they have some actual power and freedom in their lives, is the people who wish they had that, and not the fact that their real life denies them that Liking Isekai isn't a moral failing for exactly the reasons you're describing. The problem is that power fantasies make for genuinely lovely writing because what's fun to write isn't necessarily what's fun to read. Good stories are about characters growing (or degrading) as people through conflict which you can't have if you aren't willing to let a character be weak and have real flaws or be put into situations where they genuinely could lose. For example a better version of the Slime anime would have him NOT secretly be the most OP character on the planet and instead keep him weak and force him to accomplish his goals purely through politics, mediation, acts of kindness, and relying on the physical strength of others. Instead he's literally unstoppable which kills any sort of dramatic tension the show may otherwise have because he literally can't lose. Then on top of that you add all the sexual weirdness combined with writers just regurgitating the exact same stories over and over and you have a recipe for a genre filled to the brim with titles that are both utterly incoherent, morally questionable and incredibly boring at the same time. Mandatory disclaimer: I don't hate the slime anime. I just think it could be better
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Feb 16, 2021 21:43
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Raenir Salazar posted:I think Yujou Senki touches on it, the author is also a socialist (to the hilarious gnashing of teeth of the series wehraboo fanbase). I might check that one out. Thanks!
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Feb 16, 2021 21:47
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Endorph posted:power fantasies can absolutely be well written and executed its just people tend to only think of something as a power fantasy if they dont like it and its bad Anything can be good in the right hands but that doesn't make the general rule any less true. Plus, I'd be willing to bet that many of the examples you'd give me of good power fantasies aren't actually power fantasies in the sense that I'm talking about. For example Gurren Lagann scratches the same itch by having characters take on vast armies with robots that are the size of the moon but the writers are smart enough to constantly keep them on their back foot by challenging them with enemies the size of the sun. Despite the ridiculous tech GL is about being an underdog overcoming impossible odds, NOT about being so awesome that your enemies never stood a chance in the first place, which is the trap many Isekai fall into.
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Feb 16, 2021 22:10
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^^^ lmaoEndorph posted:being an underdog overcoming ridiculous odds, is also a power fantasy Yes but I'm talking about a certain kind of power fantasy where the point isn't to tell a good story but to have your personal avatar beat up all the bad guys and be obsessed over constantly by the girl with the big boobs. Think Kirito in early SAO where he's just so awesome that he can take on entire parties of other players and take literally no damage because he's just that cool and awesome despite that being in no way how MMOs work. Or in Jobless Reincarnation where the main character not only can use magic as a toddler (which I'll actually allow because he's secretly an adult and taught himself to read fantasy speak with the explicit goal of doing this) but also is able to break the rules of magic and cast without speaking for literally no reason because he's just that special and awesome. I'm not saying that this kind of power fantasy can't have a certain appeal at times (the sales figures speak for themselves) but it's the writing equivalent of junk food. Empty calories that can taste good in the moment but are shittily made and are probably unhealthy to consume in large amounts.
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Feb 16, 2021 22:28
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| # ¿ May 12, 2024 06:33 |
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Willo567 posted:They made Sesshomaru and his daughters the central focuses of Yashahime, and it sucks donkey dick. Moroha is way more enjoyable, even if she's one dimensional like the rest of the new characters 70% of the reason Inuyasha worked in the first place was Naraku. With him gone the series really struggles to get you invested in the overarching story. readingatwork fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 09:11
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