(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
|
Trotsky was Huey Emmerich but with kind of a debatelord edge. His most damaging qualities weren't really ideology but the way he was. A wrecker who just ends up loving and breaking everything he claims to hold dear repeatedly while whining. The ideology was never the real issue. I generally get the impression that he just could not control his desire to gently caress things up. Revisionism, reformism - whatever. That's never a big deal unless it comes along with the insatiable urge to gently caress everything up. The danger of a Trot is not their ideology but the probability that they will pull a Trotsky and just try to blow your poo poo up. All flavors of the left do this kinda thing from time to time but Trotsky was so annoying about it that it has left an ideo-memetic memory imprint on all marx-lovers to abhor the Trot. Cuttlefush has issued a correction as of 15:47 on Apr 15, 2022 |
#
¿
Apr 15, 2022 15:41
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 10, 2024 21:35 |
|
|
I'm not actually serious (except about the Huey Emmerich comparison). I thought that'd come through with the ideo-memetic memory thing. I do think the weirdo Trot hate has very little to do with ideology and a lot to do with the name inducing some latent rage on behalf of everyone whom had to deal with the actual Trotsky. I'd just rebrand at this point. The history of leftist factionalism is pretty funny and also grim. Lots of trauma. Online leftist factionalism is the second farcical version of it and it is also funny. I do understand that it would get real tiring if people constantly got weird and serious about it though. But that does sound like something Trotsky would do if he posted here.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2022 16:50
|
|
|
Anyone ever met a Posadist IRL? Or a alien?
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2022 16:58
|
|
|
In the US if more than two marxists congregate for too long Trotskyites show up and do the They Live scream. If the marxists do not flee anarchists will be sent in to do little bitty baby cry screams. Nobody knows what comes after that.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2022 17:20
|
|
|
Zodium posted:hmm, i guess i'm a trot. same
|
|
#
¿
Apr 17, 2022 10:03
|
|
|
or a tankie. really just depends on my mood.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 17, 2022 10:04
|
|
|
18th brumaire was a farce but the first 17 were fine imo
|
|
#
¿
Apr 17, 2022 20:06
|
|
|
MSDOS KAPITAL posted:okay folks I get it, I'll stop typing out a widely-used and unremarkable acronym for a pretty basic element of marxism, here in the marxism thread what even is marxism>??
|
|
#
¿
Jul 9, 2022 02:19
|
|
|
animist posted:stroking his chin and going "hmm" is actually how marx got good at political economy. its also why his beard grew so long That's a bunch of Lamarky
|
|
#
¿
Jul 11, 2022 05:07
|
|
|
lmao yellow reaganti
|
|
#
¿
Jul 28, 2022 19:28
|
|
|
card carrying?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 28, 2022 22:45
|
|
|
you are dooming the revolution with your shoddy marxmanship
|
|
#
¿
Aug 8, 2022 00:01
|
|
|
i think you can just lump both groups together now. i don't think there's been a meaningful distinction (at least in the imperial core) for quite some time.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 8, 2022 17:15
|
|
|
the homeless may be lumpier than the average prole but there isn't really a class or class consciousness difference. maybe there was in different times and places which made the distinction meaningful. the non-working homeless, neets, certain types of criminals, or any other grouping that could fit the definition aren't going to be a counterrevolutionary force if there were to be one in the west (there wont be one). capital probably doesn't even have the structures necessary to marshal them into reserve labor or conscripts outside of prisons anymore. frankly I suspect it was probably always kind of a bullshit distinction, but if it wasn't, it certainly is now
|
|
#
¿
Aug 8, 2022 18:01
|
|
|
Mr. Lobe posted:The difference is the relationship to the levers of power. The lumpenproletariat doesn't have the same leverage that the proletariat does. They don't have the same ability to shut things down. unwantedplatypus posted:Revolutionary theory derives from economic theory. The classes are defined principally by their relationship to the economy (the means of production), and their revolutionary or counter-revolutionary tendencies are an emergent property of this. A proletarian can be counter-revolutionary and a capitalist can be revolutionary, this just makes them class traitors. But a proletarian is defined by selling his or her labor. The definition is an economic one. I know the definitions. I don't think the distinction is meaningful in 2022. It might have been in other places and times. People who are actively selling their labor and those who used to but stopped but potentially still can or those who sell their labor while breaking the law have the same relation to the economy. The theoretical lumpenprole who is standing by to join the brownshirts or act as reserve labor to take the place in some general strike doesn't exist. Cuttlefush has issued a correction as of 19:45 on Aug 8, 2022 |
|
#
¿
Aug 8, 2022 19:21
|
|
|
tokin opposition posted:What the gently caress is dynamical systems The lectures of Dr. Ian Malcolm in Jurassic Park are a good primer.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 11, 2022 05:05
|
|
|
mila kunis posted:my primary objection other than the difficulty of reading it is that its been one hundred and fifty fuckin years. a lot of things have happened in that time, marxism isn't a dogma where you have to read the original sacred text and defend marx's carbuncled butthole at all costs, there should absolutely be a standard modern (post ~1985 at the very least cutoff) text updated with all the things people have learned since marx's time that you can refer people to. you gotta read at least a couple sacred texts (or pretend to have read them). the butthole defense is optional but it's the fun part so I don't know why anyone would want to skip it
|
|
#
¿
Aug 11, 2022 19:20
|
|
|
so trot is the tanky's tanky?
|
|
#
¿
Aug 12, 2022 21:33
|
|
|
the singular tankie being -ie instead of -y is hosed up but correct. I meant that as in tankie's (non-pejorative) tankie (pejorative). obviously that joke didn't land, but I was trying to make fun of apropos of nothing's "trot is just a term for people you dont like"
|
|
#
¿
Aug 12, 2022 23:38
|
|
|
Fish of hemp posted:I don't quite understand why it's horrible to admit that Stalin made mistakes. He was just human, humans make mistakes. He was Georgian and beautiful and perfect!
|
|
#
¿
Aug 13, 2022 14:56
|
|
|
Fuckin Hueys
|
|
#
¿
Aug 14, 2022 05:32
|
|
|
do they have a version of the smallest church in saint saens?
|
|
#
¿
Aug 14, 2022 09:38
|
|
|
It's mind poison all on its own.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 25, 2022 19:58
|
|
|
The Voice of Labor posted:mein kampf is dumb as hell, like, try reading a passage outloud and not bust up laughing ok but what if you do it without the hitler impression
|
|
#
¿
Aug 25, 2022 20:48
|
|
|
DrSunshine posted:I was making a deadpan joke, I guess it fell flat. Sorry. i liked it
|
|
#
¿
Aug 29, 2022 03:29
|
|
|
Communist Thoughts posted:Is it an online conference? I thought it was actually in Haymarket which is the posh side of Edinburgh hah
|
|
#
¿
Sep 3, 2022 10:48
|
|
|
|
|
#
¿
Sep 15, 2022 17:41
|
|
|
didn't stalin hear him say "yo we gotta kill stalin" through wire taps multiple times, tell him to knock it off, and give him a bunch of chances? i remember hearing about it and the great purge in general and then reading the events and it made stalin sound soft as gently caress. even then i think stalin just wanted to exile him still?
|
|
#
¿
Sep 21, 2022 18:42
|
|
|
lenin could have posted through it
|
|
#
¿
Sep 24, 2022 17:50
|
|
|
we all write jokes for each other, communisticly
|
|
#
¿
Oct 14, 2022 17:49
|
|
|
posting tweet jokes is basically neglecting developing your means of joke production to import cheap, poorly made lols from the west
|
|
#
¿
Oct 14, 2022 17:50
|
|
|
Yossarian-22 posted:sorry i failed to read the room. next time i'll try to find the correct thread out of the 9 or 10 marxist ones that are active on here that was a test and you flinched. you're gonna have to stab one of these guys now.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 14, 2022 20:22
|
|
|
AnimeIsTrash posted:I've been reading about the Saur Revolution and the PDPA. It seems like the soviets faced something similar in the stans, but were far more successful. The PDPA also had a pretty antagonistic relationship with the more Islamic portions of the country, but that was a similar situation that the Soviets were in. I don't know anything about the PDPA beyond extremely basic facts but I strongly suspect that whatever fuckups they made were correctable up until the US decided to get involved. Again, ignorant about the details, but I really doubt there were enough material/cultural/whatever differences between Afghanistan and the comparative successes to explain much. Also my understanding was that the actual Saur coup/revolution was very successful. There were some organized counterrevolutionary threats but I don't think they were existential after the coup. I think the actual big PDPA fuckup was the unaddressed Parcham-Khalq faction split that led to a countercoup/assassination and then the Soviets intervening and then the US smelling blood. I also think the US probably was or would have gotten involved regardless and it may have been doomed even without the factionalism, but I couldn't find much about the PDPA government after the revolution being in too much trouble until Taraki's assassionation. Again, pretty bare knowledge so I might be way off base but my hunch is that the USSR probably should have known better based on their past experiences than to reconcile the Parcham-Khalq split so halfassedly.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 14, 2022 21:02
|
|
|
genericnick posted:A matter of timing? There just wasn't a rising tide of Wahabist psychos funded by Saudi money when the USSR was building their country. I didn't mean to imply it was just a matter of timing. that's a side effect of my conception of this is just being a timeline skeleton that I know needs to be filled in. I agree that the ultimate failure in afghanistan is due to the us/saudi arabia/capital organizing and funding opposition. I'm mostly posting on this because it helps me sort through things and get people to correct me or throw references my way. I'm not trying to make any declarations or insights. My timeline skeleton: 1839 - First Anglo-Afghan War 1878 - Second Anglo-Afghan War 1919 - Third Anglo-Afghan War 1933 - Mohammed Zahir Shah becomes king after his dad gets assassinated (not Britain). Tries to not get political in WW2 or Cold War. 1964 - New constitution establishes parliament etc. Operation Snake Eater 1965 - PDPA founded by Nur Mohammad Taraki and Babrak Karmal. USSR says hello. PDPA wins 4 seats out of 215 in parliament elections. 1967 - Faction split. PDPA basically splits into Nur Mohammad Taraki's Khalq and Babrak Karmal's Parcham. 1973 - Mohammed Daoud Khan with army + Parcham coup Mohammed Zahir Shah, his cousin. New constitution. Khalq excluded from playing but continues to recruit and organize. Both factions maintained active relationships with the USSR. 1977 - Khalq and Parcham officially make up, reform PDPA. Combination of USSR trying to get them to do this for the past decade and Daoud increasingly giving off very strong about-to-purge-them energy 1978 - April 17. Parcham faction leader gets assassinated. Daoud says it wasn't him. PDPA doesn't buy it. April 19. Funural turns into a large rally/protest. Daoud gets spooked, arrests Karmal and other leaders from both PDPA factions that night. April 27. Coup. Enough of the military was either PDPA, sympathetic, or otherwise willing to back them that the main part of the coup took 12-24 hours. Daoud got strafed by his own jets and blasted by his own tanks. June. Khalq and Parcham make various political maneuvers against each other. Things are actually getting messy enough I'm gonna stop here. 1979 - OPERATION CYCLONE (Fourth Anglo-Afghan War, ft. CIA, ISI, GIP, introducing the Mujahideen) I'm going to have to actually work beyond this to find sources since most of the detailed writing on this I can easily find is from guys with anglo names or other suspicious qualifiers. Recommendations welcome.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 15, 2022 12:45
|
|
|
lmao
|
|
#
¿
Oct 15, 2022 15:55
|
|
|
wait, what was that about rand and greenspan?
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2022 01:09
|
|
|
gently caress it, I'll give that a dudes rock
|
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2022 04:03
|
|
|
adam curtis is probably a net benefit for now. he'll have to go eventually though.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 19, 2022 09:36
|
|
|
Pentecoastal Elites posted:I never really understood the love for curtis that a lot of the left has, besides him being a pretty ok documentarian most of the time. I get that people like it when someone says how the bad thing is bad but for a marxist I think there's very little to pull out from his work yeah. i dont really get why he is brought up in the marxism thread. i mean i also dont really care that he is i just dont see the connection. he should be in the thread for people who have a growing feeling that things are a bit hosed up
|
|
#
¿
Oct 20, 2022 03:47
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 10, 2024 21:35 |
|
|
internet is real. if you get owned on it you get owned in real life. that's the only parallel though imo
|
|
#
¿
Oct 21, 2022 22:07
|
|