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I love the way war appears to work in this game. It's pretty much everything I've ever wanted from a Paradox game - I hate micromanaging stacks during wars. Should be interesting to see how everything shakes out in the actual game.
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Oct 24, 2022 16:08
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Popoto posted:how does it feel to be part of the masses for whom the game was dumbed down? Fantastic! And I know your comment is in jest, but a "dumbed down" system isn't a bad thing here because the AI also has to use the system. I love the idea of focusing on the big-picture economic management and diplomatic maneuvering while the generals do the actual fighting for me. It's just so much better than needing to individually move every single army to the point where my wrist starts to hurt after a couple of hours of playing.
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Oct 24, 2022 16:15
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean I don’t think it’s dumbed down it just kind of takes your hand out of war and makes it much less in your control. Which some people like I guess but I prefer to control what happens in war and the economy And that's absolutely fair. Different people want different things out of games. I feel like the reduced control will help the AI to compete better and am more than happy with the tradeoff of having less control over the war. You might prefer to have more direct control over the war, especially if it allows you to punch way above your weight by strategically maneuvering your troops to beat an otherwise superior force. They're different ways to play the game and neither one is more correct than the other.
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Oct 24, 2022 16:24
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:The problem I'm having with this is that this game is set during the age of imperialism where war/expansion was pretty rampant. I'm interested in seeing new ideas of how to orchestrate that in game, but I think currently we have an unfinished product. I think if they did something like this, but had a hoi4 graphical representation the current implementation would be much more interesting. From my understanding, there's an economic cost to having a standing army - not only do they require weapons, but there are also barracks that need to be built, as well as wages that need to be paid. And, of course, your soldiers are people, and people are your economy. Dead soldiers aren't consuming goods, and have to be replaced by workers who would otherwise be making you money. From a logistical perspective, I'm not 100% on the details, but it looks like generals are stationed in an area, and can then be deployed to a conflict. Presumably the travel time is constrained by infrastructure and/or your navy. So if you have far-flung colonial holdings, it might be worth investing in a local garrison, because getting troops from the mainland all the way out to the other side of the world is going to take a very long time.
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Oct 24, 2022 17:20
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Capfalcon posted:But why is the ability for the player to wring additional power out of the same amount of troops and equipment a benefit to the game? For some people, that's the appeal of a historical game like this. They want to have the fantasy of being the better commander who wins against all odds as the underdog. And there's nothing wrong with that. Other people, like myself, prefer to have the fantasy of creating a better economy and run a country to be more prosperous. Because I'm a fan of the latter more than the former, I prefer to have battles won or lost by the strength of logistics and economy rather than by strategic prowess. This also has the advantage of allowing the AI to compete better in the military front, although it will inevitably still have some things that it will do worse than the player does, and the player will inevitably snowball their economy into the stratosphere.
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Oct 24, 2022 19:17
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Is it too early to start assuming that everything that Paradox is working on is Vicky 4?
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Oct 24, 2022 21:09
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TwoQuestions posted:Goddamn I'm so loving hype for this, if it's possible. Have a whole currency design/backing system! Have a Shilling that's 30% Gold, 50% Silver, and 20% Fiat by value! Cowrie shells! Booze currency! Actual buckskin currency! I'm only onboard if we can pay our workers in scrip.
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Oct 24, 2022 21:14
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:I was wondering the same. Like will britain try to fight wars in india using local indian population troops, or will the entire empire muster to fight sindh 20k army. There appear to be some laws that govern how different cultures are represented, and I think most of the British colonial holdings are subjects and not directly controlled by England. They might be able to put down that sort of thing on their own, maybe with the help of Her Majesty's local garrison if such is required.
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Oct 25, 2022 01:31
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Nice. Game unlocks just as my first meeting for the day starts. I will definitely be paying close attention to the meeting. Definitely.
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Oct 25, 2022 14:16
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Two Beans posted:Spiff put out a video where he took over all of capitalism and humiliated the Russian Empire in a war without fighting in said war as a released Jan Mayen. I think you will do just fine. To be fair, I think a lot of that boiled down to the overpopulation debuffs being too small. In theory an overcrowded area suffers -100% pop growth (after a certain point), but Spiff had so many positive bonuses that he overwhelmed the -100% and crowded hundreds of thousands of people onto an island with a modern-day population of 35. Some of that stuff will probably shake out better in the future as balancing passes start to remove edge cases like that. Also the funny thing about the war is that Russia shot itself in the foot badly by mobilizing. They just didn't have the economy to actually do what they wanted to do, and Spiff set himself up to exploit the Russian raw resource production by building factories in his highly educated island nation and then turn those goods back around to Russia for a massive profit.
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Oct 25, 2022 16:23
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dead gay comedy forums posted:so victoria 3 is a game that it is real and exists and going to be launched like soon Victoria 4 or riot.
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Oct 25, 2022 16:36
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I'm having an issue as the US trying to war with Mexico. France keeps jumping in and stalling everything out to an annoying degree. Also, I banned slavery, changed the police to dedicated police, and enacted multiculturalism with barely a peep. Then I tried to give women rights and the entire loving country lost their minds over it.
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Oct 25, 2022 21:55
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Party In My Diapee posted:Why is my offensive and defensive rating so crap? Is it only determined by tech? You might have to actually upgrade your units in the same way you upgrade buildings. Just unlocking the techs isn't enough.
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Oct 25, 2022 22:02
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JosefStalinator posted:How do I know my colonial growth progress? As Argentina I have ticking timers into Patagonia but it doesn't seem to do anything but repeatedly reset. It can be hard to notice (because the process is very gradual), but you'll actually take little bites out of the territory as the bar ticks down. So your progress is literally measured by the amount of territory you have on the map.
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Oct 25, 2022 23:24
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So I tried China, and I think that China is more or less just completely hosed. The reason I say that isn't because their admin situation is dire, or their literacy is awful, or their government is a trash fire - all those things can be fixed. The problem is infrastructure. Provinces have something like 1200 arable land to accommodate the literally millions of people who live there. So far, so good. However, they've only got about 80 infrastructure or so. Each building you build takes 1-2 infrastructure, and maybe employs 3k-5k people. Even in a wildly amazing scenario where you get 4k employment per infrastructure, that's still only 320,000 people that are employed. If you exceed the infrastructure amount, the province suffers from low access to the market, which ends up being a big deal, near as I can tell. There is literally no way to industrialize the majority of China, simply because of the way infrastructure works in their provinces. More frustratingly, there's no warning about going over the infrastructure limit for a province (this affects other nations, like the US, as well), so you end up having to keep a more manual track of how much you're building in each area. It's very irritating because a province can have 600 subsistence farms with perfect access to the market, but when you try to build proper farms and proper lumber mills, you can't because of infrastructure limits. There's also no way to permanently boost infrastructure other than ports and railroads, but ports add 5 infrastructure and railroads add 20, so they're not a good option either.
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Oct 26, 2022 15:56
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OddObserver posted:Some tech gives infra based on population (I think modern sewage is one?) but that may not be enough either. And getting tech in low literacy country sucks (finally got my Japan kinda out of the grip of the Shogunate, so maybe I can finally get some schools...) There's a cap on those techs though - they at most add 10 infra per province per tech, which is maybe another 40,000 employed per tech. It'll barely make a dent. Holy poo poo, I hadn't looked closely at the tax debuffs. The big provinces are at -80%. 15 government buildings at game start add 150 tax capacity. You need in excess of 1.5k. Fixable, eventually, but not with the dire infrastructure cap. Maybe there's a way to prosper while going way over the market cap? Going to have to look into that.
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Oct 26, 2022 16:13
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Tomn posted:Is focusing all development on a handful of targeted regions a option? Like, turn Shanghai, Beijing and Guangzhou into supercities while leaving the rural areas to rot in agrarian poverty? Sure, you could, but your market access is going to go to poo poo more or less immediately. Spreading things out is way more efficient simply because you're taking advantage of the base values given to each state.
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Oct 26, 2022 16:15
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The game seems to get a bit unstable towards the end. Not sure if it's just because I was running a fairly prosperous China (used mods to uncap infrastructure per pop and add more tax capacity as a test to see what that would be like), but I had both the armed forces and the trade unions go from 20-30% of the population to crashing immediately to 0%. Also have had several crashes in various spots, but mods might have been loving things up there and causing overflows. But yeah, a China that can actually tax their people is loving terrifying. I do think that uncapping infra/pop is fine - the distinction of what is or is not a state and the flat bonuses you get feels really arbitrary. I'd also love to see the flat bonuses to tax efficiency/state from technology being a smaller percentage bonus as well. A few things I learned: China will never employ all of its peasants. By the time you even remotely get close, your pop growth skyrockets. Don't ignore the spread of Protestants - I'm not sure how exactly to counter it (probably a state edict), but the rebellion they trigger is nasty After a rebellion, you need to reintegrate the states that were involved. There's no warning for this, and it will crater your economy if you don't notice. You can choose to not fight back against the British in the opium wars. The major penalties only last for 5 years, and if you do fight back, you're more or less guaranteed to have them for 15-20 years at the minimum Starting out with wooden construction buildings actually works pretty well - you can retrofit them later as and when your economy can support it, but getting a ton of lumber mills and construction industries up early is great. Can be worth turning off hardwood production for a big chunk of them until you hit a point where you need it. Peasant levies are awful. They're capped on how much tech both your main army and your mobilized forces can use. Swapping to literally anything else is a great idea. Infamy is a resource that should be constantly decaying. Stepping on a minor nation if you've got the army to do so isn't a bad idea. gently caress landowners. They're the worst in every nation.
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Oct 27, 2022 16:55
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CuddleCryptid posted:How many construction buildings are people starting off with? I usually put in a couple more so that I can build at 40/40 for two slots but I'm impatient and wondering if I could just slam a bunch of them together with enough wood. I think it depends on the size of your country and your tax base. You want as much as you can get away with, but it can be hard to ride that fine line between deficit spending and getting a return on investment.
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Oct 27, 2022 17:50
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So, started as China again, no mods. Immediately kicked the landowners (purple) out of government and replaced them with the military. That way I could start suppressing the landowners ASAP and move towards Professional Army. (Edit: low Legitimacy mostly just seems to affect how long it takes to pass laws; this doesn't seem to be a bit problem) I chose to not contest the Opium War at all, instead choosing to start up diplomatic incidents with my neighbors, starting with Dai Nam. Many of them will back down without a fight, so you just want to demand one state, fully mobilize, and let them fold. If they don't fold, well, pops are cheap and you don't pay for weapons, so who cares how many of them die? My goal with conquering this region is to get rubber in there later on in the game. I also went after Japan and had them fold as well. At this point I'm alternating between the Siam/Burma/Dai Nam and Japan as my infamy allows. Speaking of infamy, I try to keep enough influence to be constantly losing 25% more infamy. I also started improving relations with the British immediately - you want them on your good side. On the money front, I protected my internal supply of opium (raising tariffs on the Brits), and put a consumption tax into place. I built 50 construction buildings and have them on wood, set all sawmills to make lumber only, and set furniture manufacturers to only make normal furniture. Then I prioritized more lumber and more paper to reduce the overhead cost of running things. Leaving everything to the AI to expand also works well when you're not sure what to build, and building stuff yourself seems mostly helpful when you're about to transition to using a new input, like coal (what I wouldn't give for a "gradual transition" button instead of having to micro that...). I'm a little over 10 years in and things are going pretty well. The economy is decent, the landowners are losing power slowly, and my empire is expanding to secure resource-rich locations. Building up enough bureaucracy is going to be a major challenge, and I don't expect to get good tax efficiency until much later on in the game. There's not a whole lot of blood that can be squeezed from serfs, after all, and the landowners are making abolishing serfdom a bit of a pain in the rear end. It'll get done eventually though. Dirk the Average fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Oct 27, 2022 |
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Oct 27, 2022 19:32
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Haha, just ran into a thing as China where the East India Company decided to start poo poo with me while my military was still set at the worst possible equipment. Little did they know that I actually had the capacity to have a much, much stronger army. I queued up 20 additional arms factories and proceeded to tear them a new rear end in a top hat when they let the conflict proceed to war. It definitely hurt the pocketbook, but was very satisfying, and I got some of the territory in Johore for my trouble.
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Oct 27, 2022 21:42
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Gort posted:How's that work? Your troops take huge penalties for a full year when you switch their equipment, and wars start much faster than that. I swapped over the moment the situation started, the military group was giving me +30%, and actual infantry are much more powerful than barely-armed peasants. I started out with a much lower army score, but as the equipment came in and the penalties faded, the difference was quite stark. Also, I outnumbered them roughly 2:1. They just weren't expecting the army to modernize as quickly as it did. On a side note, invading Japan is a nightmare. Every loving advance into the country splits into two other fronts, and the AI happily jumps into the gap and instantly closes the gap unopposed. The front system is nice, and works well in open areas, but needs to be abstracted a hell of a lot more and have the front stop splitting when the terrain gets in the way. If I'm invading State A from State B, it shouldn't matter if State A is shaped like a horseshoe that I'm approaching from the top.
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Oct 27, 2022 22:24
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1858ish and I managed to beat Russia as China. They started a war over taking Hokkaido, so I took both Japan and Russia's portion of the territory and made them recognize me as a great power. Now I've got all the privileges that come with being a great power. I'm making money with a construction of 400 right now (paying off some war debt; really should remember to ask for reparations). The landowners still have a clout of 27%. I've been trying to pass the Secret Police at 50% for about a decade at this point  Edit: The tax situation is interesting. Consumption taxes and tariffs make up about 1/3 of my tax base. If I could actually tax my pops I'd be exploding with money and investing in everything all the time, but alas. Dirk the Average fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Oct 27, 2022 |
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Oct 27, 2022 23:09
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So, uh, I'm an idiot. It turns out that automatically expand is just that, expand. If you want the AI to build railroads automatically for you, you have to build the first one manually. Same with expanding mines into new areas, expanding crops, etc. That explains so much.
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Oct 28, 2022 02:09
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Something interesting to note: do not ignore Generals and Admirals. They have party affiliations, and the maximum promotion for both is a whopping 20% increase in clout for that faction. It's often a good part of why the landowners have so much clout in the beginning of the game. I've been trying out more China starts, and one thing I realized is that if you're not passing reforms, landowner opinion really doesn't matter other than the debuff to rural output. You can often fairly comfortably find a point where you can just fire all of their generals, hire new ones (firing the landowner generals if you get a pick where both candidates are landowners), and wait 5 years for that to blow over. It takes a huge chunk of their clout out and makes it much easier to get the other groups of your country to actually become influential and able to pass laws. Of course, now I have an issue where the armed forces have a ton of clout, but that's at least much less of a problem on the grounds that they have a pretty narrow scope and tend to not oppose reforms.
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Oct 29, 2022 00:38
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Quick question - are there hotkeys for mobilizing troops? I'm getting really tired of clicking on the general on the right side of the screen, moving the mouse to the bottom left of the screen to issue an order, and then moving the mouse to the top left of the screen to select a destination (or clicking on the map). Also, tried out a new strategy as China again. Vassalizing the nations to your south is surprisingly easy and rewarding. You incur a lot less infamy for doing it that way, and you don't have to manage the pops (and they pay you money while buying poo poo from your market!). Besides, you really want them for the rubber later on, and you can always annex them once you become a great power by damaging relations. Japan still seems to be a bit of a sticking point though. At some point I'll figure out how to acquire them in a less messy fashion. Their states are great, but they cost a ton of infamy. I'm also planning on acquiring some vassals in the Middle East. We'll see how the devouring part goes though. On the domestic side, starting out by gutting your starting generals seems like a good plan. The landowners can get as angry as they want, but with no reforms to protest against, there's not a lot they can do. It also substantially boosts the clout of your armed forces, and in 5 years' time you can do things like pass a professional army and secret police. Then you just kick the landowners out of power, suppress them, and don't worry about passing any new laws for a while. I've been primarily using authority on consumption taxes and trying to get as many tariffs as possible going in order to fund perpetual expansion of the economy.
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Oct 29, 2022 03:05
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lalaland posted:Playing as burma and i have qing opening up a huge import trade route for iron to my market and greatly increasing the price for construction. If i increase iron production they just make their trade route huger. I have the protect domestic supply thing already on, what else can i do for them to stop sucking up my iron? Honestly, I'd rake in the profit from the iron, swap the construction buildings over to wood, and then just make as many construction buildings as you can. They're not as good as iron, but quantity can make up for quality, and you have a few million people who need jobs.
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Oct 29, 2022 03:07
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Zeron posted:Universities are mainly to get qualifications and to raise your innovativeness up to the literacy cap. Worth noting that while there is a cap as to how much you can research a specific technology, extra innovativeness over that cap contributes directly to tech spread. You don't actually lose anything by overbuilding universities, and you'll quickly catch up on techs from the rest of the world if you can afford to do so.
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Oct 29, 2022 16:43
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Tiler Kiwi posted:the most lackluster mechanics are the diplo ones. I think the baseline is there. It's neat how you need to break the political stranglehold of the landowners (and the groups that they sway, like the church, army, and farmers), encourage the rise in political power of the capitalists and liberals, and then break that power base that you just built if you want to pass the law to establish economic equality. It's just that the system doesn't quite have enough teeth yet. I think if the US had more radicals at game start, that would go a long way towards making the civil war fire off more historically (and it's not a hacky fix - the political situation was very tense at that time). The other thing that would help is to have a bigger effect from low legitimacy - it's a bit silly that I can give the middle finger to the parties that won an election or are not supported by the monarch and all that happens is that it takes longer to pass laws. Edit: bolstering and suppressing works a lot better if you have more restrictive free speech laws and secret police
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Oct 29, 2022 17:58
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So apparently the Heavenly Kingdom event for China is very badly coded. The event sets off a diplomatic crisis where you annex the Heavenly Kingdom. This means you take a metric shitton of infamy, which in my case meant that I got 170 infamy for winning a civil war. I'm just going to go ahead and fix that by cheating because holy poo poo that is not the way a civil war should work with respect to infamy. It also ends up taking away your incorporated states, so you have to reincorporate anything that breaks off.
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Oct 30, 2022 04:18
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MuffinsAndPie posted:I've been having a pretty successful game as China, I'm 35 years in, I've become a recognized power, things are stable so far and the economy is doing fine. I might've made a mistake though, I've been integrating every single piece of territory that I've got/gained, and I just passed the religious schools law. It takes 5,000 bureaucracy just to maintain the level 1 education institution and I have like 90 government admin buildings queued up so I can hit level 2. It's an obscene amount of paper/costs. Yeah, you pretty much can't get a good handle on your administration until you get telephones. Central Archives is a really good tech to beeline early, and then as you expand your paper industry you can slowly build out some more admin. I'd focus on Beijing, since you get bonus admin output for it being the capital. It doesn't help that a lot of your early laws and such also make it harder to administrate everything. For actually making money, it's a good idea to focus on tariffs and consumption taxes early on. Your administration is overextended to the breaking point at the beginning of the game, which cuts your normal tax income dramatically. The nice thing is that you can support a vast construction industry; you can pretty easily build 50ish construction buildings in the early game (I usually sort by peasants and concentrate industry in the first 20 states on the list), and then slowly expand from there. You'll need tons and tons and tons and tons of wood to support everything, so I actually go in and disable hardwood and luxury furniture production at the beginning. Around the time you switch glass and paper away from using all of your wood is about the time you can go back to getting hardwood, and coincidentally about the time you want to start making weapons that need hardwood as well. Right now my China game is at the point where I have around 1.5 million in capital investment from all the capitalists in my empire. Breaking their stranglehold over the economy is going to be difficult, but holy poo poo are they supercharging things at the moment.
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Oct 30, 2022 04:56
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Stux posted:i mean this is 100% on purpose. idk what youre expecting Yeah, I really love authority and influence as mechanics. Authority is incredibly powerful and incredibly useful, but it's only available in large quantities when your laws are well behind the times. It's a resource I find myself constantly juggling throughout the game, but it just limits what I can do, rather than being a currency that I can spend. Influence is the same way - I often want to do a lot with my influence, but even just letting it sit there is extremely powerful because then I get to burn off more infamy faster. There's that neat tradeoff where I can't do everything I want, so I have to pick and choose and prioritize things in a very dynamic fashion. They're both great, and I love that they are pools that can be changed on the fly rather than a currency that stockpiles over time. It's a much better limiter of action and really makes for a fun set of systems.
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Oct 30, 2022 21:40
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Kraftwerk posted:If you play the US. Do you have enough resources within your historical borders? How do you get rubber? You either buy it from the market or you do a colonialism. Theoretically additional patches will make the AI do a better job of developing oil/rubber in their states, so the market won't be quite as empty as it currently is.
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Oct 31, 2022 16:35
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Baronjutter posted:Anyone have any idea why my trade unions suddenly has 0% clout? For the last 30 years they've been by far the majority of clout and win every election. Am I getting some sort of overflow that's setting them to 0?? Yeah, I've had this bug happen in a few different ways. One time I had a couple of pop jobs go from positive political power to something like -1billion political power. Another time I was expanding the army dramatically and the Armed Forces just suddenly plummeted to 0% influence and remained there permanently. For the Armed Forces, I suspect that because they had so many fully promoted field marshals and admirals, that there might have been some sort of overflow. The trade unions probably had something similar, and also would fluctuate wildly between 0% and 30% or so on a regular basis.
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Oct 31, 2022 22:56
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Started up a game as America after playing China for a long time, and it's weird to not just be able to throw millions of people at your problems to make them go away. At some point I want to try an opener where I puppet Mexico, but I think France/Spain is very likely to jump in on their side, unfortunately.
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Nov 1, 2022 21:27
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If you already have worker co-ops, then is there a reason that you need a minimum wage? I figure that co-ops + welfare is a pretty good baseline setup; your workers will not starve if they don't get a job, and places that don't pay well won't attract workers. Your minimum wage is effectively already baked into the welfare at that point, and since workers are sharing in the profits, they'll chase the industries that pay them well.
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Nov 2, 2022 19:44
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Eiba posted:I like how good multiculturalism is. The game doesn't need to incentivize being racist, or penalize not being racist. Multiculturalism is just plain good. I don't think that anyone here disagrees with multiculturalism or women's rights being an objectively good thing. It's just that this is the 1800's and early 1900's. Racial tensions and women struggling for political relevance are a big deal in that time period. Hell, the US didn't pass the civil rights act until 1965, and while things have certainly gotten better since the 1830s, racism and institutional racism are still very much alive and well in the modern day US. A one and done button that ends discrimination doesn't really model that. It should be a grueling battle to get people on board with the idea. I'd actually like to see more tiers in the laws for multiculturalism, and more tiers for women's rights as well, and then require that each law be passed in sequence rather than just jumping straight to the endgame. And in the end, even from just an economic standpoint, both are very advantageous. Allowing women to work increases your workforce massively. Allowing other cultures to have the same legal status increases your migration substantially, which in turn leads to more workers. The cost is the massive social upheaval that it takes to get there.
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Nov 2, 2022 20:11
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I've noticed that some of my generals seem to lose divisions over time (a period of several years, and the barracks are full and replenished), and getting a new general seems to refresh them and cause them to refill on troops. Is there a way to refresh them that doesn't involve hiring a random idiot in the same region?
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Nov 3, 2022 06:10
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Magil Zeal posted:Here's some examples of the capitals from top-ranking AI powers at the end date: One thing I've noticed from letting autobuild do its thing is that the autobuild doesn't build more than one of a building in a given province at a time. It's probably not as big a deal for a smaller nation, but if you've got the manpower and resources, it's often more optimal to just open palm slam the build button and put down several dozen factories or buildings of the same type to fill a resource shortage. I imagine there's also a trap for swapping to things like leaded glass production, where lead doesn't have much use before then, so there's no reason to build lead mines, but then you won't want to swap over to leaded glass because you have no lead, so it'll be too expensive. As an aside, playing as China with 5k build capacity and 2.7 million in investment funds per week is hilarious. Once that economy gets the foot on the gas, things get really stupid really fast.
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Nov 3, 2022 08:26
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I'm running the mod that supposedly improves the AI's ability to place buildings, but I've found that even without the mod, building all of the industries you're interested in in certain areas and then allowing them to expand autonomously works really well for slowly growing your economy. Of course, sometimes you come in and build 100 of a building because your research is about to finish and you know you'll be consuming twice as much coal or whatever, but it's nice to have the basic buildings slowly grow over time without my input. The AI seems to do a decent job of slow and sustainable growth, where I crash the government budget and then skyrocket output as soon as whatever I'm pushing through finishes.
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Nov 3, 2022 20:06
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