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Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

64bit_Dophins posted:

Wait wtf why can't I move the taskbar to the side in Windows 11?

Is there a single compelling reason to upgrade?

I hate the dock, I hate everything about the new interface and I was just starting to accept windows 10.


Man poo poo - I guess I may have to go back to linux and put my head in the sand with MS for 5 years like I did back in 2006.

Microsoft doesn't understand UX - like at all. I could write a ton on this, but the micro-decisions in the MS products are actually really good. Font choice, colors, contrast, and the minor layout elements are all expertly picked (With exceptions in a lot of the Metro/Material stuff). When I want reference material for these small decisions that I can't work out, I frequently look to MS stuff for ideas. Segoe UI is basically the font I use for everything.

However, the macro level decisions about app layout, control flow, and general user experience are complete trash.

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Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer
I would take the XP Start Menu, The Windows 7 file explorer, and control panel / options / settings / etc. stylistic language with XP layout, and the Windows 10 taskbar. If I could inject some idea from Gnome 40 into all of this, I think that'd be my dream UX ship.

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

MikusR posted:

Top of the line/newest/still being sold 4000$ Surface Studio 2 has 7th gen Intel cpu and so does not support Windows 11.

I had to look this up.

This computer has a 7th Gen HQ part in it, unimpressive everything else in unupgradable hardware, and is asking 3.5k for the lowest end part. That display better be the thing of dreams, or that product is absolutely insane.

Why don't they just sell that as a Display? It actually seems really sick. $2800~ sick? Maybe to the right creative pro - I'm not exactly the target for that, but to attach it exclusively to a lovely laptop seems like an enormous throw.

Canine Blues Arooo fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Jul 2, 2021

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

redeyes posted:

Yeah The Windows GUI shouldn't be hosed with like this.. its another touch bullshit thing. Im getting to the point I might start wasting my time learning how to make a linux desktop system not suck.

I'm so very close to this as well, and it makes me super mad.

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

The Merkinman posted:

If Microsoft changes anything, it's bad, and change for the sake of change.
If Microsoft doesn't change anything it's bad, and means Microsoft is just resting on its laurels.

This sounds like something the Windows team might tell themselves, which would be hilarious since the negative feedback is extremely pointed and specific. (hint: Don't make your desktop OS a touch OS with no options to make the mouse a first class input device).

Canine Blues Arooo fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Aug 29, 2021

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer
Also, if Microsoft would kindly just rest on the laurels called 'Windows 7' and just ship new DX on top of that with Security Updates, I'd be extremely OK with that, especially compared to literally any time they've tried to clumsy integrate touch into the OS.

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

Raygereio posted:

What do you like about it?
If you were to convince an average pc user to switch over from Win10, what would be your pitch be?

I totally believe that some people like. How much feature regression affects you, and how much 'shiny and new' entices you is frequently a function of how much you ask the OS to do. Most end users could probably be fine on ChromeOS, and for those people, Windows 11 will appear to be an improvement...but they should just be on ChromeOS

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

Combat Pretzel posted:

Here's my hot take: gently caress the web as universal solution to everything and their mom.

Actually though. Both as a user of computers and as a developer of software, gently caress the web

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

ben shapino posted:

It's so bad. Migrated back to 10, full clean install, will resist upgrading for as long as humanly possible until I hear serious improvements have been made cause god drat what are they even thinking with this poo poo

"Imagine what Windows would be like on a Tablet...and only on a Tablet."

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

codo27 posted:

Something that isn't being talked about enough is software updates. I'm so tired of opening up programs like qbittorrent or da vinci resolve to find theres an update (like a fuckin 2gb one in the case of the latter). I know its not that easy when it comes to win32 apps but god drat it they ought have a baked in way by now for devs to get their updates taken care of with windows update or whatever.

Dude, that's some monkey paw poo poo right there.

You are invoking some really terrible poo poo by asking the operating system to handle the updates for software.

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

Nam Taf posted:

Can we position it on the side yet or are they still loving up the primary benefit of widescreen aspect ratios?

Sir. Why would you want to touch the side of your tablet and/or other mobile device? Isn't touching the bottom center more intuitive? I don't think I understand your use case...

Canine Blues Arooo fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Oct 3, 2021

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

My hot take is that paint's major strength is that it provides a very simple and very fast platform to do common photoshop-like tasks (crop, draw, move, highlight). As long as that's not compromised, they can add features or whatever. Paint 3D compromised it super badly. It *looks like* they didn't gently caress it up here, but MS seems to always find a way to gently caress it up, so we'll see.

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

Arivia posted:

it's better for tablets though

...yay :suicide:

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer
I'm honestly trying to think of a space where touch as a primary interaction for all compute is ideal. I totally buy that a Surface Studio-like device is the dream for someone in Illustrator or PS or whatever, but to bring those ideas to a computer OS-wide is a much harder sell. This is double true if you need to produce keyboard input at all, which is a disaster on touch.

I'm going to sound a little bit Steve Balmer-y here, but I'm pretty convinced that unless you have a use for a pen, touch is a toy and completely inferior in speed and resolution of control across the vast majority of use cases.

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer
Touch is the best we got when raw convenience is the element you are solving for, or when doesn't allow for better input devices, but if you work on that 8 hours a day...

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

Vic posted:

I mean the taskbar thing is at worst mildly inconvenient. People are having meltdowns over it on the feedback hub tho so I expect buttons not grouping will be added later as an option.

It's overall better than w10 performance and feature wise.

E: Just checked the Ungroup Taskbar Buttons feedback post and the official reply from MS is perfect:

"We really appreciate the time you took to share this feedback with us. We've detected you're sharing multiple problems and/or suggestions within a single feedback entry. Please resubmit your feedback such that each problem and/or suggestion has its own feedback entry."

yeah annoying isn't it?!

The number of 'inconveniences' that MS has introduced to Windows over the years has stacked up to the point where Windows itself is nothing but an inconvenience that now requires an increasingly large stack of third party software and specific configurations to make it do what Windows 7 did better. If I'd make a list of all the 'minor inconveniences' Windows has introduced over the years as opposed to just making a checkbox in a settings panel somewhere, I'd probably hit the character limit on posts.

But at least we have round corners and HDR support I guess.

Canine Blues Arooo fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Nov 10, 2021

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer
I'm honestly a native implementation of DirectX away from switching to Linux, which is probably a reason why that won't happen.

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

Rev. Bleech_ posted:

New Windows version comes out, everyone bitches and moans about the changes. Next version comes out, they buy it early, and bitch and moan about the changes. The cosmic ballet...goes on.

This is actually the baffling thing to me tbh. I'm gonna bitch and moan about Windows 11 to anyone who will listen, but you can bet your bottom dollar I'll be running Windows 10 until the 2025.

Windows 11 UX is bad.

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer
It's very interesting to see conversations about Operating System UX. I love to nerd out about software UX and something I love to see when trying to figure out what works with feature-rich software is not just if something works, but how it works. If you talk to an audience working with creative software, they are very likely to consider that there way may not be the only way, and will frequently make attempts to understand how other people use this software to accomplish and similar or identical task. The end result is that there is this feedback loop that strongly supports multiple entry points and paths, and that removing them is generally considered a bad thing, for better or worse. Even software that has a VERY strong vision for workflow (Reason comes to mind) will be slow to remove or change the crit path of workflows because the feedback will trend to negative.

When it comes specifically to Operating Systems, that all evaporates. Part of this is because the audience is now, 'everyone' and not just professionals. Not only is there no consideration for a different workflow, but an almost aggressive stance taken of, 'Well, you can do it this one way, so I don't see what the problem is here'. Trying to convince people that disparate ways of interfacing with the same functionality is probably a good idea as your software grows in features and complexity is kind of a hot take in these circles. The end result is the feedback loop gets inverted and this complex software ends up adding more features with fewer options and entry points. It makes little sense to me and I place a lot of blame on that as to why Windows requires an ever-growing block of third party software to make it do what it could 20 years ago.

Canine Blues Arooo fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Dec 18, 2021

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

BrainDance posted:

What MS was doing in the XP betas looked really nice. I remember first seeing leaks and thinking "drat, I want that"


Watercolor was sleek for the time. But then we got what we got :/

The left side of that Start Menu is loving tragic, but that is otherwise remarkably close to what my Start Menu in tyool 2021 looks like.

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

Thanks Ants posted:

I feel like a massive luddite but I don’t want any smart home devices, I don’t want something with a Wi-Fi radio deciding if my lights are turning on, and I’ll go out of my way to avoid subscriptions.

I don't think Smart Home devices are 'innovative, new technology' so much as it is a solution looking for a problem... at the cost of privacy and every 'service' attached to them that wants a monthly fee. I have a bunch of cool tech poo poo but it needs to solve a problem, or the novelty needs to be pointed in an interesting direction. There is literally nothing a 'Smart Home' device does that I wouldn't want to do on a computer, phone, or some other physical interface.

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

redeyes posted:

My kid wants to smart up my whole home with Rasberry Pis and Home assistant and bullshit. I'm too old to want to go find my loving phone to turn my light off or gently caress with the thermostat. Physical switches and knobs are far better than smart trash.

Physical switches have a tendency to actually work 100% of the time, which is a pretty desirable feature.

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

The Lord Bude posted:

There's absolutely nothing wrong with windows 11, other than a handful of butthurt neckbeards descending into hysterics because they can't have their taskbar on the side any more. It's a vast jump forward in UI consistency and polish. If their PC can officially support windows 11 they should just go ahead and upgrade.

-- The take of someone who gets easily distracted by new, shiny things!

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer
WSL is awesome. Windows Terminal is awesome and should be baseline. The Android Emulation stuff is a great idea, execution tbd. Windows Perf Analyzer and that whole tool chain is some of the best software written. The UX team seems to be really loving high though and I'd take a hit of whatever they are smoking.

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

CaptainSarcastic posted:

I'd say they are only a problem if you're using a touchscreen - the whole point of using a mouse is precision, to my mind. Maybe I've played FPS games for too long or something, though.

This is really interesting thing I've noticed is that a lot of people are just running their mouse at way too high of a eDPI on their desktop. Someone, they get pointer smoothing turned off and are running with accleration-less mouse movement and it feels like they have to line up every click. It doesn't have to be this way :(.

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

WattsvilleBlues posted:

Anything in particular grinding your gears?

... How much time you got?

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

CaptainSarcastic posted:

It's been a little while, and I intend this as an honest question, but what are the reasons I should consider updating my Windows 10 install to Windows 11?

Windows is pretty much only used for gaming on this machine, which is currently running a Ryzen 3600X and Nvidia 3080 12GB. I've poo poo-talked Windows 11 in this thread in the past, but I figure it's been out long enough to check in again. Are there more compelling reasons to "upgrade" from 10 than there used to be, or is it still relatively pointless?

Windows 11 in it's current state is a trashfire compared to Windows 10 unless you REALLY want to touch your screen. All the things Sickening said apply. Besides all the UI downgrades, there are also administrative downgrades as well. It's harder to turn off ads. It's harder to turn off 'suggested content'. It's soon to be required that you *must* have a Microsoft Account (to what degree is TBD, maybe just install, but the winds are not blowing in a favorable direction).

Windows 11 is basically for people who buy from OEMs, people who don't know better, and people who are on the 'use newest thing cuz newest' train and have takes like

quote:

Get used to the new version of the OS because that's your only option.

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

MH Knights posted:

So if I were to buy a new laptop that came with 11 installed is there a way to change it to 10?

Download the Windows 10 ISO. I don't know if you can use a W11 key for W10, but if you can't, you can get a key off of a local friendly goon for $15

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer
Good Surge protectors generally do a good job against protecting against, well, surges. However, there are no standards on branding a product 'surge protector'. A Walmart 'Surge Protector' is about as good as fuckall.

Also, insert some lecture here about spending good money on a PSU to mitigate this problem as well.

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

Klyith posted:

Search indexing has always had the potential to get borked and be a problem, it definitely didn't stop in the vista days. It maybe got better over time, or else the increased core count over the years just made it less noticeable.

Meanwhile, Everything seems to have just hard-solved this problem...

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

shrike82 posted:

is there any difference between running Ubuntu on WSL2 and a separate partition/boot entirely?

I'm not sure what you are trying to solve I guess?

The advantage of WSL2 is that you can actually be running both at the same time. You can interop between the two if you want to force the issue and it's pretty loving awesome for some use cases. I used to have to do Python development and I could contain all my environments for test on my WSL2 instance, but do all my real development on Windows.

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

Vic posted:

I just updated and no Spotify or anything else was installed, because on the "Let's customize your windows experience" startup screen I selected "No, thanks" to the options. It was three clicks.

Having to do this at all is indefensible. There is a good reason they don't tell you what's actually happening and it's because they know it's crapware. It's the same tactic that put the AskJeeves toolbar on millions of computers that never asked for it 2 decades ago.

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer
I'm voting for Windows [Big Dog].

Windows Great Dane
Windows German Shepard
Windows Husky

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

Number_6 posted:

As a non-techy PC user I think it's ridiculous that it's almost commonly accepted that it's somehow OK for Windows (whatever version) to crash or corrupt itself to the extent that doing a reinstall and/or rollback of the OS is necessary. That should not be a normal occurrence. Every time there's a Windows update I have anxiety poo poo's going to blow up.

If this is your experience with Windows past Windows 7, the problem isn't the OS.

Now, I do think you have a case about issues that wreck your files... But not the OS.

e: I do think it's quite dumb that I feel like I need a Pro license so I can leverage GPO to actually control the update policy. I generally think it's a good idea to just force updates on users, because most people just won't do it and don't understand the trade offs they are making here, but part of this is that MS needs to make sure those updates are rock-loving-solid, and don't come with adware... MS isn't really fulfilling their end of this contract nearly as well as they once were.

Canine Blues Arooo fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Sep 27, 2022

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

BoosterDuck posted:

I wish microsoft could prioritize the registry files needed for the operating system to run so windows wouldn't slow to a crawl after a few years of usage

Last time I did a truly fresh install of Windows was when I bought an 840 EVO, so...9 years ago? It's still very snappy.

This idea that 'Registry makes Windows Slow' is not true today, hasn't been true for very long time, and might have never been true.

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

Klyith posted:

So the registry is perfect and never gets busted or mis-configured now? News to me. Sometimes it happens -- part of my UWP dumpster fire in 2019 was apps being denied DCOM connections, which is poo poo that's configured in the registry. No clue if something elsewhere was also broken, but my event log was spammed to gently caress with DCOM poo poo.


Like, registry cleaners are snake oil, and are super unlikely to fix any problems. Particularly not problems that MS themselves can't fix. But the registry still can and does get crapped up in persistent ways that make windows fail. It just doesn't happen 100% of the time like it used to.

UWP is the shitbag here. Don't use UWP for loving anything (and thank god it's dead in the water).

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer
The Outlook desktop client is really good.

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

MikusR posted:

Every developer who is even remotely capable is moved to Azure.

This would unironically go a long way to explain the sorry state of Windows.

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

mutantIke posted:

I spent like 10 seconds trying to close that Firefox window. I may be Windows 11's target audience.

But did you do it with your finger?

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Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

mobby_6kl posted:

You actually have to use three fingers, swiping from the bottom-left corner, while your thumb is touching the right edge of the touchpad

No mouse. Only touch. As the lord intended.

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