SteamDeck: Look for "honkers railway"

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > SteamDeck: Look for "honkers railway"

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

I'm pretty surprised that I was able to create a Steam account this morning and put in a preorder deposit for the 256 GB model since Valve said they wouldn't let new accounts place orders within the first 48 hours. I'm lined up for Q2, which is enough time to see how the early units shake out in practice.

I've always been a handheld guy and recently bought big into the Switch. In contrast I dropped PC gaming 20 years ago before Steam and digital distribution was a thing, and the Deck is exactly the kind of device to get me into that ecosystem.

I've always found past Linux handhelds to be, interesting, but without the backing of a major content provider they've never amounted to more than curiosities. I think with this though Valve has the chance to do it right and pivot into the console/hybrid space especially at a time when Nintendo is giving them an open by neglecting any real performance upgrades for the Switch and Microsoft and Sony aren't even trying.

Anyways, since I just opened my Steam account I have a year to catch up on sales for "must have" titles and am looking for suggestions--particulatly anything that hasn't been ported over to the Switch already. The Valve Complete Pack is already on my list. Also looking at the Deus Ex Collection. The Master Chief Collection is on sale right now, but I don't know how worthwhile the Halo single player campaigns are (I'm not into multiplayer at all).

ExcessBLarg! fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Jul 18, 2021

# ¿ Jul 18, 2021 01:05

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 12:30

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

I don't really see the port location as an issue. Unless it's an actual Switch-style dock it's either more convenient to plug into the top or it doesn't matter either way.

# ¿ Jul 18, 2021 01:22

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

Soul Glo posted:

I wonder where Steam thinks it's going to make up the loss in the pricing. They don't have a subscription service like GamePass or even PSN or Xbox Live to get users to make up the difference in the long run.

They're definitely playing a long game with this. They need to, too, since Microsoft keeps buying up studios. Valve realizes they eventually have to pivot into the console/handheld/something other than Windows PC space to have long-term stability.

Soul Glo posted:

Just about everyone buying this thing already has a deep Steam library, so I would assume the increased software sales won't make a huge contribution to their coffers.

I don't know that that's necessarily true. You already have people posting in this thread about how they've just created a Steam account for this, or they've reactivated an account that's been defunct for years. I think it has broader appeal than PC gamers who already primarily use Steam.

# ¿ Jul 18, 2021 17:56

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

Veotax posted:

The OLED one was pushing me to replacing it, but the Steam Deck has changed my mind.

Why not both?

# ¿ Jul 18, 2021 20:41

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

Peaceful Anarchy posted:

Is the Steam Deck really so much more expensive to manufacture than the Switch?

Yes, it is. Look at how much more expensive the Aya Neo is.

# ¿ Jul 18, 2021 21:51

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

OK, so you all agree that the $399 price point for the 64 GB model is at least the cost to manufacture, which makes it significantly more expensive than the Switch.

# ¿ Jul 18, 2021 22:12

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

I'm pretty sure "painful" means they're taking a loss on it. They're probably breaking even with the 256 GB model, so you can extrapolate from there.

# ¿ Jul 18, 2021 22:26

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

The eMMC model is pretty clearly a compromise to reach the $399 price point, which puts it within an earshot of the Switch, and so is a major PR and interest generator. They probably figure much of their existing user base is savvy enough to opt for an NVMe model.

In isolation there's value in the eMMC model for indy and older titles, but that's also a market the Switch already has well covered.

# ¿ Jul 18, 2021 23:07

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

The only thing sacrificed in the base model is the SSD.

"Painful" I'm sure refers to the negotiations they had with their suppliers, namely AMD. Part of those negotiations almost certainly assumes a loss on Valve's part.

# ¿ Jul 18, 2021 23:51

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

What about the specifications jump out to you as being sacrificed?

I wouldn't look at it like "a BOM of $450 per unit sold at $399 means Valve loses $60 per unit," that's probably an oversimplification. Instead, Valve probably contracted with AMD for a minimum order quantity to get the APU cost as close to margins as possible. If that quantity is in, say, 100k or even millions, then they're eating that cost until they can sell enough Decks to meet the minimum order, and the price they're actually selling the Decks for is how much that cost is offset by current sales.

It's also possible that they're straight up selling the $399 model below marginal cost and know it's unsustainable. It may not matter for their bottom line though if it flops because they didn't price it aggressively enough.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2021 00:29

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

I'd just assume the eMMC is only for OS and put all games on the biggest SD you can fit.

I went with the 256 GB NVMe unit though to make sure I could play any title that might require SSD streaming bandwidth--or just to avoid poo poo load times, but still also have a giant SD card.

Depending how configurable the OS is I might put titles on USB-mounted bulk storage just to avoid having to download them repeatedly when I'm not actively playing them. I'm not used to 50+ GB games though so I guess we'll see how that works.

It's nice that the NVMe SSD is theoretically upgradable. That's not something I'd want to do in the first year anyways, but if this ends up having a decent lifespan I could see a 1 TB upgrade in the future.

The big thing I'm wondering about is offline mode for single player titles. As I understand, it's common for PC AAA titles to have online DRM even for single player these days. Or is that not the case?

# ¿ Jul 19, 2021 01:55

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

Senator Drinksalot posted:

Isn't the point of the deck that it's way more powerful than the switch and can do the prettier games natively instead of streamed?

"Streaming bandwidth" as in the game has to load GB of graphics assets into RAM immediately, as can be done on PS5/XSX.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2021 01:58

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

Senator Drinksalot posted:

Realistically how many games do you really need at one time on a device that gets 2 hours of battery life?

It's incredibly convenient to have all your games installed on a portable device if you travel/commute frequently because you can play whatever you want even though you're offline or have poo poo Internet, without having to preplan or anything.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2021 02:33

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

Geo Fixer posted:

512 gb and Q2 for me. Oh well, guess I'll just enjoy my switch until then.

I'm Q2 too, and my ridiculous disappointing reaction is "well, I guess I'll just have to play the OLED Switch for a while instead."

# ¿ Jul 20, 2021 14:02

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

BexGu posted:

Since SteamOS is the other half of this handheld equation how is it right now? If you threw it on a machine would it play a majority of games without any problems?

The current version of SteamOS you can actually go and download is quite old, the one that will ship with the Deck is completely rebuilt.

# ¿ Jul 20, 2021 16:34

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

homeless snail posted:

No part of what SteamOS or Proton is currently is what they're claiming runs on the Steam Deck, is the weird thing.

It's not necessarily that weird. It's easier for them to target the Deck's version of Proton to the Deck's hardware--specifically the AMD video drivers--then it is to resolve compatibility issues across the board with all Linux-supported GPUs.

homeless snail posted:

are they not going to test this poo poo publicly before the Steam Deck comes out? idk

It wouldn't be equivalent because there's no Deck units in the wild for people to test with.

# ¿ Jul 20, 2021 16:38

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

Antigravitas posted:

They'd be insane not to considering the audience that runs it, i.e. people who use Linux workstations for work and can't be arsed to reboot into another OS just to play games�

Err what makes you think Linux users have another OS?

# ¿ Jul 20, 2021 18:29

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

I would not expect any demanding 3D game running through Proton to run well at all on the steam deck.

The IGN guys were playing Jedi Fallen Order on it all day and it looked like it was running pretty well.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2021 01:09

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

repiv posted:

Proton is a net positive for Linux gaming but it's a shame for first-class Linux support to take a step backwards

Say they decide to support the Proton version as first class with QA and all, especially for something like the Deck. Does it really matter then if it isn't "native"?

# ¿ Jul 29, 2021 22:10

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

Do they make a USB-PD car charger that runs at 12V? That seems like such a trivial thing to do.

# ¿ Jul 31, 2021 23:55

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

Videos are long, but I have questions that they're probably not answering:

1. Is there a screenshot button?
2. Can I pause a game to go look at old screenshots and even delete them?

I mean, I already went from not having a Steam account to purchasing 16 games in the past couple of weeks in anticipation of this thing dropping. Mass Effect is the most anticipated title I'd like to play on it. But when it comes to Metroidvanias the Switch has completely ruined me with the ease of taking screenshots and looking back over them without having to quit a game.

# ¿ Aug 6, 2021 19:00

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

Any comparisons with the Switch + Split Pad Pro?

# ¿ Aug 6, 2021 22:32

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

JammyB posted:

What's the screenshot infatuation about, if you don't mind my asking?

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

Maybe he's using them to remind him of items and doors and stuff that he'll need to backtrack for later.

It's exactly that. I take screenshots of the screen then the game map to remember where barriers and items are, or at least what I think is one. Then when I get a progression item later I can just check back over the screenshots I took to figure out where to backtrack, without having to remember what was in a particular spot.

It makes Metroidvanias very efficient, especially ones that don't have objective markers. I used to be able to remember these things a lot better when I was younger but now it's this or take notes.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2021 02:42

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

v1ld posted:

Never looked into the actual PD protocol though, dunno what the spec says.

Here's the thing, the spec is just the protocol. It's still up devices to figure out what to negotiate based on the RDO/PDOs passed back and forth. They also frequently get the logic wrong or otherwise don't work in ways you'd expect them to. It's why USB-C PD is a crapshoot.

# ¿ Aug 9, 2021 16:29

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

You don't need a crazy-rear end high end dock for a device that's targeting a 720p performance profile.

# ¿ Sep 22, 2021 03:24

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

Intentional obtuseness aside, for the handful of 2D indies that are Switch exclusive for whatever reason (of which I can't think of any right now) they might be able to emulate on a Deck. Nintendo first party titles probably not so much. Also, I wouldn't really want to use a Deck for titles that play well on a Switch--I'd rather just play them on the Switch.

However, ten years from now when Nintendo has moved on to its next non-backwards-compatible console I'd be totally happy emulating my Switch library on a Deck successor. That's definitely my long game for dealing with my Switch backlog.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2021 16:26

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

Dramicus posted:

On the other hand, they should stop making hardware and just focus on making games.

They'll never do this. There was a point when the 3DS stumbled out of the gate against mobile and nobody could figure out what the Wii U was that Nintendo's shareholders held NCL to the fire long enough to consider developing for mobile and even then they dragged their feet on actually doing it. But they doubled-down on hardware and between the reasonable success of the 3DS and massive success of the Switch, they will not give up their own hardware for the foreseeable future.

Dramicus posted:

Sega is doing far better now than they did during the console wars.

Sure, but Sega during the console wars never did as well as Nintendo has done at multiple heights now.

ExcessBLarg! fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Oct 4, 2021

# ¿ Oct 4, 2021 18:13

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

How is N64 emulation going on the Deck these days?

# ¿ Oct 15, 2021 19:01

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

Quantum of Phallus posted:

how would we know

The question is a bit facetious given recent events, so a serious rephrasing: Is Mupen64Plus still the best Linux-native N64 emulator, and still the best approach for N64 emulation (vs. Project64 on Wine)? Every time I've tried--which is about once a decade--it it's been a disaster.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2021 20:43

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

I assume the Deck would support ufs if it's part of the kernel build but unless you're some BSD nerd then ext4 is totally fine.

# ¿ Oct 16, 2021 00:42

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

The 7th Guest posted:

my concern is that this is going to be the first of several delays/shortages :X

It could be, but it's not like the Polymega or Amico, the Deck clearly exists as a product and a good number of people already have one. The two month delay isn't bad given that, right now, there's a six month lead time on parts procurement across pretty much the entire industry.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2021 21:08

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

The actual architecture of the Deck is closer to current generation--think Xbox Series S--just with the actual number of cores proportionately reduced to target 720p.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2021 22:39

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

Rather play Loop Hero on my actual Switch, which I can do today.

This is going to be my playing MP2/MP3 in Dolphin machine after the MP1 remake comes out. Also it's a race to see which of the Deck or the rumored MP1 remake comes out first.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2021 15:00

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

Kwolok posted:

Fomo and the crazy demand means anyone who got in early need to buy it as soon as they're turn is up and they won't be able to really have an informed decision

Who cares? If they end up changing their minds they can flip it for twice what they paid for it, easily.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2022 00:42

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

homeless snail posted:

This thread honestly makes me embarrassed to have preordered this thing. Glad I'm not standing in line outside a Toys R Us with you people.

Counterpoint: It would pretty awesome to play Switch with everyone in line for a Deck at Best Buy or whatever.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2022 20:44

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

RandomBlue posted:

I don't know how you think hands work, but if your thumb is on the stick you're gonna have a hard time hitting that B button with the heel of your hand or palm unless you have some really odd grip.

Aren't there like four back buttons on this thing? Stick + face shouldn't be necessary.

# ¿ Jan 31, 2022 23:50

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

homeless snail posted:

Nintendo was there first, they get to choose where A and B are.

You can't make a controller with a d-pad and not be aware of Nintendo's layout. You can ignore it or whatever but it's not ignorance.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2022 02:54

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

I'm not worried about trying to emulate Switch games on a Deck since the Switch will still largely be available during the Deck's lifespan. What comes after the Switch goes EOL is interesting to me, much like I'm interested in running Dolphin on the Deck for GC/Wii titles (particularly those that haven't been ported).

Maybe you could run indie games on the Deck in a Switch emulator, but for those that have PC ports (which nearly all of them do) I'd probably just wait and pick up the ones I really care about in a future sale.

Once I get a Deck, the problem I'll probably run into is choice paralysis about buying new games on Steam (Deck) or Switch, as the latter still smaller and strictly more portable, but I totally expect the Switch as a platform to have a finite lifespan, whereas any Steam game that's compatible with Proton today will almost certainly work on some vaguely PCish thing far into the future.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2022 22:03

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

Coffee Jones posted:

Things like long running toxicity that discourages contributions needs to be stamped out with a quickness.

There was an individual who came to the defense of RA in the retro thread recently, making statements that sound very similar to the gaslighting harassments made by not-AFX himself.

This stuff isn't "two sides" but even if it was, I'd sooner side with the emu devs that do insane work rather than the guy who writes some shaders. Who cares about shaders, they're not hard.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2022 19:36

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 12:30

ExcessBLarg!: Sep 1, 2001

MarcusSA posted:

I think and dude can correct me if I'm wrong but most of that would be lost because of the proton emulation.

MarcusSA posted:

Ok Well you know what I mean! There is a loss there

There isn't. Proton is a reimplementation of the Windows and DirectX APIs. It's basically a bridge between games and the Linux kernel and device drivers, much as Windows itself is a bridge between the Windows kernel and device drivers.

In some benchmarks Proton will be more performant than Windows, in others less, but in broad strikes strokes it's not significantly slower.

# ¿ Feb 19, 2022 02:47

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