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Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?
Is it unusual to burn this amount of time on a move? Would you still be going through possible lines, or is this just indecision?

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Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?
I’ve only been able to follow this with that evaluation bar, because just about everything they play is completely intractable to me.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Salt Fish posted:



I watched a youtube video about the rules of chess in May of this year after watching pogchamps. 2130 puzzles later I hit 2000 puzzle rating on lichess. I might starting playing chess some day! Maybe!!

That’s awesome. I’ve been enjoying puzzles as a way to force myself to rest between problems at the climbing gym.

After the Carlsen game this morning though, I picked up Chess for Dummies at the library, so we’ll see if I can commit to some structured learning.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

V for Vegas posted:

The manbun gone!

Behind the scenes footage in Nepo's hotel room:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AbleIdolizedAvians-mobile.mp4

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?
Is Magnus shaking his head because he screwed up, or is he just embarrassed for Nepo?

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?
I've been working hard to learn to play chess the last several weeks, and if someone came out and said that it's a game designed to torture you while pretending to be fun, I would believe them.

When I lose, which I do a lot, it often feels like my opponents are pretty much never wasting a move. Like I have no breathing room before my defense collapses and I lose a major piece. Or, I make a dumb move early on my opponent spends most of the game cleaning up.

When I win, I never get to enjoy it because the evaluation pops up and I made 6 blunders and only pulled off a win because my opponent made 7. Or what I thought was a textbook rook-king endgame would have been shattered if my opponent had noticed their bishop was in the position to take out my rook. Or I feel like I'm slowly tightening the noose around my opponent and end up winning on time, only to pull up the evaluation and see that I actually had a dreadful position and was saved by the clock. Or when I try to follow basic principles and avoid an exchange, then have the analysis go "yes, in this position you should exchange queens while down on material, idiot."

I have always been terrible at strategy games, so that part isn't new, but being able to see exactly how badly I play and where my mistakes were really turbocharges the potential for self-flagellation.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Dias posted:

Below 1000 Elo every extra move favors the player losing the game.

Do you just mean that it increases the chances of the winner blundering, or is the # of moves factored into your ranking somehow?

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?
How do you improve your ability to recognize mating patterns and good moves in actual games? I've gone through (twice, in some cases) the mating patterns, tactics, and endgame examples on Lichess. I average about 30-40 puzzles a day, review tactics and positions from books, and have tried to work in some YT content on chess tactics and strategy.

But in actual games, at least when I'm not getting crushed, I'm ending up in positions like this:

And just completely blowing it. Instead of the obvious mate in 2, I went Rf1 to get his queen. I ended up missing a forced checkmate 3 more times before finally blundering my queen and losing.

In a puzzle, I know there is a great move buried somewhere, so I'll spend as long as I need to find it. In a game though, even on long time controls I'm never sure if a position warrants more evaluation. Are there any shortcuts you use that'll make you think "hold on, I think there might be something here"?

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?
I’m slightly disappointed that they don’t play with steel chess pieces at the Tata Steel tournament. It feels like such a missed opportunity.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?
I have yet to find a YT creator who I enjoy for actual chess instruction. Naroditsky is probably the closest I've seen, and thanks for the Oh My Lands rec because that seems like it'll be pretty good. I think that the video format, especially the reposted livestreams, are just a less than stellar instructional method. There are a ton of moments in Naroditsky's videos where it's clear he wants to show why a certain position is winning/losing/advantageous, but instead his opponent hangs a rook on their next move and he had to switch gears.

A lot of the others seem to fall into the pattern of just running through the moves of a game, and going "well this is the move he made, and this is the move he actually should have made... well actually, this is the move he should have made, because Bb5 is losing, and his opponent would reply with this, and then his move would be XXX. But if he went Ne5 then takes, takes, takes, takes, takes and now he'd be down a bishop. Oh, and a5 here would be a dubious line, but it actually came up in *insert historical game* because it might encourage your opponent to move this piece and then you'll get a lead in development. Oh, and if all of this is sailing straight over your head, well too bad because I haven't even pointed you in the direction of the theory underpinning what I'm saying"

If I just want to watch videos about chess, Eric Rosen and Levy Rozman all the way.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4FcokIxe50A

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Carbolic posted:

Today's chessle was quite a stumper but I managed to figure it out eventually.

Hadn't heard of chessle, but that's a fun game. Got it in five today.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?
Got Chessle in 1 guess today. :feelsgood:

Just generally, do you think it's possible for a game of chess to end in mate without either player making a mistake (or what a modern chess engine would classify as a mistake)? I don't mean theoretical perfect play, but could a couple of middling chess players play a game where they're not always playing the top engine move, and those imperfections accumulate into one player being a pawn up or in an advantageous position without an engine classifying any single move as "wrong"? Or would your opponent probably be in a position to force a draw in those circumstances?

Baronash fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Apr 8, 2022

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Control Volume posted:

Its high level computer precision

…what? It’s the only move that doesn’t lead to a (pretty obvious) forced mate.

Baronash fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Apr 17, 2022

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Burden posted:

I just emailed support to completely opt out

Same. Though I can’t imagine someone going through the effort to mint a game against a random 1300. :shrug:

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?
I know next to nothing about chess, but just from a general "organized sports" perspective, it's kind of nice to see, if indeed Magnus had requested format changes, that FIDE wasn't willing to give in. Obviously, an organizing body for any sport/game should be receptive to the feedback of the individuals who compete in their events, but that's very different than taking direction from the current champ just because you stand to gain from him continuing to hold the title. Hopefully if he feels the changes he asked for were good for competition chess in general, and not just more in line with his interests, he'll continue to advocate for them even if it doesn't directly impact his career anymore. :shrug:

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

fart simpson posted:

hikarus a messy drama bitch and its all here at this timestamp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN3zNrvO8b4&t=839s
It's bizarre to me that they dig into each move this much as a standard format for post-game interviews. Like, imagine getting grilled about why you threw a 3-2 curveball to the second batter in the fourth inning.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

fart simpson posted:

well, chess is almost entirely mental and these guys are sometimes spending 30 minutes thinking about one move. it’s interesting to find out something about what they were thinking at certain key moments

For sure, it's just the extent to which they're doing so for this tournament seems so weird. During the Candidates, the interviewers would ask about a few key moves and perhaps propose an alternate line based on the computer eval to get the player's thoughts. This seems waaaay more intense.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Hand Knit posted:

According to 2700chess.com he dropped 7.3 from that game.

Yikes. Compare that to picking up 9(?) for the entire World Championship.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?
…Qe7+ Kd3 Bf5+ Kxd4 Qc5#

I didn’t see the sexy finish. :negative:

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Salt Fish posted:

Hikaru played my clip on his stream today so I'm basically famous now sorry everyone.

edit:

https://twitter.com/ty_johannes/status/1574780445744668673

I would think the relative strength of their opponents would have an effect on their accuracy over that time period. Magnus is a strong GM, and plays tournaments against other strong GMs. If Neimann is truly the strong GM that his rating suggests, then he's a strong GM who has spent most of the past few years playing tournaments against IMs and weak GMs.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Hand Knit posted:

My play's been a bit lovely lately so I feel like showing off an actually good tactic I got. Black to move and win.



Stockfish hit me with 5.Nd3 instead, which led to trading out the remaining queens and rooks until I was up a pawn and a knight. I almost gave up there because I am ridiculously bad at pushing pawns without losing my advantage.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?
I ran into this chess puzzle and cannot understand why the solution is what it is.


The next move is 1. Nd5, followed by 1. ...Qxc1 2. Nxe7 which is where the puzzle ends. The top engine moves afterward are 2. ...Kh8 3.Rxc1 Rxc1 and if you keep going from there, white loses the knight with a pawn as compensation. Black stays up a pawn throughout the sequence, yet stockfish has this as the only winning line for white. I'm not sure what I'm missing.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Walh Hara posted:

The knight creates a discovered attack when it moves, so you should look at all the moves the knight has. By going to Nd5 white is attacking the bishop which is only defended by the queen, so if black would want to move his queen to evade the rook's attack then it needs to go to a position where it can still defend the bishop. However, if the queen moves to the d6, d7, or d8, then the knight would again be able to create a discovered attack by taking the other night on f6, with check, and black would lose the queen afterwards. As such, after Nd5 black can choose between losing the bishop (with check, and white will also be able to exchange his knight for the rook on c8), trading his queen for a rook on the d file after Qd8, Nxf6, Rfxd8, or trading his queen for a rook via Qxc1.

Right. I get what the knight is threatening with that move. I missed the puzzle because I saw that sequence and discarded it because it was an even trade that cost most of my major pieces. With engine assistance, I can see that making this move puts me in a position to eke out a slight advantage over the next 20 moves. I think I missed something about the position that would have made it easier to see that it was a good tactic.

Baronash fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Oct 14, 2022

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?
Most folks here have probably seen it, but Magnus did a video where another GM set up chess positions from different games, and he named the games they were from. He not only remembered a position from a game he played for a youth championship nineteen years earlier, but was also able to recall key moments from the game being played next to him during that tournament.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC1BAcOzHyY


All that to say that when Magnus says he doesn't study chess, I think that means a very different thing to him than it would to most people.

Baronash fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Oct 20, 2022

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Salt Fish posted:

In fairness to myself I was evaluating that position from here:



Here I was thinking in my brain Qxb5 forces the queen trade because unless you move the queen the knight forks it on c6. Okay, so Qx, and then Qx, and then Nx, and now we're left in this position. The king's pawn cover is partially removed, the bishop is coming to a7, the A pawn is going to push, the rook is going to magically appear somewhere around a7 (?) and everything's fine.

Obviously in retrospect I sorta play around with it for 5-10 minutes and okay, I don't really have a prayer because the A and C pawns are so weak that both rooks have to babysit them, the D file is owned by black, and any threat to the black king is an illusion.

I would say I understand this specific position much better, but its also clear to me that I lack an actual foundation of being able to evaluate a position, and I sort of automatically distrust my own conclusions which leads to a lot of second guessing and recalculation during an actual game.

Nc6? I feel like I win black’s queen whether they play bxc6 or move the king.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Huxley posted:

OK, I have a fair-play question: I'm at around 1k and am trying to play/learn QGD. I also play a few daily tournaments at once.

Anyway, last week someone in here said you could go a long way just knowing what exactly to do vs Englund, and I thought, "yeah, I should make a page of notes about that," but didn't get around to it yet. So today in a daily game, I get hit with the Englund.

Obviously in any game you can't put your moves into a computer. But does it seem fine to watch a video on white vs Englund while the game is ongoing? What if it's a Danya video with a Lichess study linked? Is THAT basically plugging in computer moves? Is it a silly questions since it's a <1000 tournament and it's not reasonable to expect people to just not learn relevant information for the entire course of a month-long game?

I assume you’re talking about chess dot com daily games. You are expressly permitted to use books, lessons, and videos during daily games.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?
I have been enjoying occasionally being able to predict a sequence of moves in what is otherwise a game that is completely sailing over my head.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?
drat, watching Ding freeze was excruciating.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Hand Knit posted:

Yeah it's some of the worst chess commentary I've ever seen. Just ear-splittingly awful. I think next time a game goes on I'll see if Levitov is broadcasting in English or Russian.

It was actually pretty great commentary. They spent the first couple minutes discussing the position, but Ding’s chances were melting right in front of us and it had some of the world’s best chess players in utter disbelief. Their commentary had me on the edge of my seat over the last 5 minutes of a 4 hour chess game. That’s good commentating and would not have been improved by them prosaically recounting Ding’s potential winning lines for the 3rd time as the game went down in flames behind them.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Hand Knit posted:

I got to the stream at the point they were just screaming at the screen and I would take just about anything else over that.

They didn’t do the whole match that way, just the minute or two leading up to Ding’s move at 45 seconds or whatever it was.

The moment called for the emotion, is more or less my feeling on it.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Anias posted:

Good chess is not the same as good tv. This match was good tv. Carlsen-caruana classical chess was good chess. Rapid tiebreaks are dumb and the title should just be shared if we aren’t willing to allow the 1984 format.

Finding a good position with a computer or team of seconds to explore and understand and then outplay your opponent from is good chess. It is study and strategy and almost zero gamesmanship. Clock pressure and funny faces and tiebreaks are dumb and shouldn’t be part of the title game. Put the opponents online so they can’t engage in games and let the chess speak for itself. The theatre of the board degrades the game. Still, I understand why the FIDE folks love the theatre as it feeds their ego and increases viewer count.

Ding’s openings were in line with finding interesting positions. Ra2 was neat, but the blunderfestivals take something away. Idk.
If I wanted to watch perfect chess, I can fire up stockfish any time day or night and watch 2 engines play a better game of chess than any human being ever could hope to play. I do not even remotely agree that the standard of "good chess" is for two people to attempt a pale imitation of what my laptop can do at 2 in the morning.

Baronash fucked around with this message at 23:01 on May 1, 2023

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Anias posted:

Agreed to disagree. There are innumerable other events where gamesmanship is prized. There are many faster time control tournaments and matches. Having one classical time control event where humans grapple with interesting positions (even if it means 20 moves of theory to get there) is not a big ask. Compromising it via rapid tiebreaks and anemic play is disappointing. Maybe it’s time for me to just stop posting. I’ll check back in later. Enjoy your sport, and may your games be interesting.

Sounds like you want centaur chess. The ICCF is right here.

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Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?
Yes, you can use the opening explorer and choose the “Player” tab next to “Masters” and “Lichess.” You can mess with the settings to filter by white/black and time control.

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