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paranoid randroid posted:the problem i have with taking 1/6 seriously is Baked Alaska was involved, and you could literally have me on my knees for an ISIS beheading video and if Baked Alaska walked into the room id be like "okay fellas this is getting silly" "Look, I'm not thrilled with the direction this is going, but you know what? Respect for your commitment to the bit, Baked."
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Jan 3, 2022 19:41
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Welp, this is where we're at, America... https://twitter.com/bensiegel/status/1479133345300852738 Great jorb.
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Jan 6, 2022 20:27
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Mellow Seas posted:Violently attempting a coup: LOL you care about this? Yes, because Dick Cheney did a lot more to destroy American democratic norms, such as they are, than 1/6/21 did.
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Jan 6, 2022 21:02
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Mellow Seas posted:Yes - but a handshake is a handshake. They didn't make him Speaker. They really, really did not have to give a war criminal a handshake and pretend like he's one of the good guys on the anniversary of Jan 6, a day which the Dem leadership is trying to sanctify.
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Jan 6, 2022 21:07
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Mellow Seas posted:Not everything has to be about everything. This Cheney-gladhanding is about one very specific thing. "Even this stupid right wing rear end in a top hat thinks Trump is a lunatic" is a resonant argument with some people, if not anybody here. It's going to resonate with absolutely no one except for MSNBC hosts. That's literally it. Everyone else will either not notice it, or will find it grotesque.
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Jan 6, 2022 21:09
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Mellow Seas posted:Sorry Maj, I'm not going to claim to understand the average swing voter's brain, but I am very sure that you don't either. Oh cool, I can't wait for this to help minimize the Dems' losses in November. The issue here isn't with swing voters. There aren't too many of those left in the U.S. anyway. It's with turning out your base. This ain't gonna turn out the Democratic base. If it has any impact, it will be in convincing people to stay home instead of voting. That will probably be a small number of voters, but let's be real - the Dems need every vote they can get at this point.
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Jan 6, 2022 21:16
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Mellow Seas posted:I've pretty much given up on '22 so that's kind of where I'm coming from. The "swing" isn't between "Republican" and "Democrat" anymore; it's between "voting" and "staying home." The reason why the Dems won Georgia is because they got black and brown voters to turn out for Ossof and Warnock, not because they reached out to Dick Cheney fans or Lincoln Project ghouls.
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Jan 6, 2022 21:20
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Yinlock posted:"How embarrassing, for Republicans" is a delusional take. Republicans will just crow about the hypocrisy of "the left", oh you called Cheney bad before but now that he's against Our Hero he's suddenly good???? Typical liberal, once Trump returns and DRAINS THE SWAMP we'll have no more of this. Especially when reaching across the aisle to try to reason with Republicans has been the clear guiding philosophy of the Biden Administration for the last year, and it's blown up spectacularly in their faces. The public may be largely politically disengaged, but they've noticed that for certain.
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Jan 6, 2022 21:22
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Mellow Seas posted:I'm not "going to bat!" I just don't think it matters! I think it's stupid political pap! I'm saying it's not a big deal because... it's not a big deal. No one's saying it's a huge deal in and of itself, it's just an unnecessary and particularly cringe-y self-own. I don't really get why you're taking umbrage at people pointing at it and going "lol Dems," because...lol Dems. You're the one who suggested it would resonate with swing-voters, weren't you? e: lol Waleed gets it https://twitter.com/_waleedshahid/status/1479181475190755328
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Jan 6, 2022 21:25
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Mellow Seas posted:Like really do people realize how differently almost everybody else in the US thinks about politics from people here? Of course, they just think even less like you.
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Jan 6, 2022 21:29
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Epic High Five posted:Looking forward to Cheney joining Kasich and probably Dubbya at the 2024 DNC I'm very, very glad that Rumsfeld is dead. e: yyyyyup https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1479188546212679681 Majorian fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Jan 6, 2022 |
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Jan 6, 2022 21:45
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mawarannahr posted:What convinces you of this? The response to John Kasich? I mean tbf, Kasich is a monster, but let's be real, Cheney's more famously a monster.
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Jan 6, 2022 22:07
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Herstory Begins Now posted:idk i don't think regular dem voters really gave a gently caress either way about that, but cheney really is still quite vilified, which is what all this 'how dare they even shake his hand' stuff comes out of. That said, handshakes mean next to nothing in the US and who managed to get a handshake with who is not really predictive or relevant to much of anything. People who absolutely hate each other shake hands as much, if not more, than people who actually like and respect each other. Yeah, I pretty much agree with this. The handshake doesn't mean much by itself, it's more of the continuing trend of the Dems self-owning by reaching across the aisle to absolutely no avail.
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Jan 6, 2022 22:20
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Bel Shazar posted:Americans are so damned stupid. William Henry Harrison is clearly the best president we've had. Ehhhh, I feel like there are a few people of Native American ancestry who might disagree.
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Jan 6, 2022 23:27
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https://twitter.com/JohnDelaney/status/1479232773906911237 To think of what could have been. He would have won if people had only voted for him... 
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Jan 7, 2022 01:36
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:I don't think it's bleak, just accurate. People kill other people, it happens everywhere and it happens every day. Anyone can commit a murder and sometimes they do, and that's just how things are and will continue to be forever. Okay, but that doesn't mean that the claim that "Pelosi, Omar or AOC would have been torn limb from limb on a livestream by someone had they been found" is substantiated by the evidence that we have. As spr pointed out, we saw where the limit of the rioters' thirst for battle was: one rioter tried to break into the House chamber, got shot dead, and the resolve of even the most motivated of them kinda melted away after that. There may have been a handful of super-duper crazies in the crowd who had the stones to actually kill a legislator or whatever, but most of them didn't. They were mostly just a bunch of dumb fat cowards who got themselves into a frothing rage, and while that's dangerous, it probably would have never led to a George Romero's "Dawn of the Dead"-type scene. e: CommieGIR posted:Ignoring the vastly bloated numbers, they did attack capitol police and media members outside and inside the Capitol, so why would legislators they might corner be a line too far? There's a big difference between attacking someone in a chaotic melee on the one hand, and cold-bloodedly executing another human being while they scream and cry and beg for their lives on the other. Most people, thankfully, don't have the stomach for the latter scenario. Again, maybe a few people on Jan 6 did, but the vast majority of them didn't seem to. Majorian fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Jan 7, 2022 |
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Jan 7, 2022 07:51
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Herstory Begins Now posted:https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/12/07/capitol-police-lose-200-officers-since-jan-6/6415037001/ That is according to the police union, says the Washington Post. While I wouldn't entirely discount the number (and there's certainly no doubt that some of the crowd attacked cops, some of them quite brutally), I also wouldn't accept a police union's numbers uncritically, without breaking down the nature and severity of the injuries.
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Jan 7, 2022 09:07
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Herstory Begins Now posted:a lot more sources than just the police union were using the 140 number, p sure the police union guy got it from them and not the other way around. Can you substantiate that claim? e: because I'm looking right now and I honestly can't find an earlier source for the 140 number than the WaPo citing the police union. As I said, I'm not entirely discounting the number, but if the last few years of history has taught us anything about police unions, it's not to accept their claims uncritically, without digging into the actual data. Majorian fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Jan 7, 2022 |
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Jan 7, 2022 09:12
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Herstory Begins Now posted:https://www.newsweek.com/134-police-officers-injured-capitol-riots-court-filing-1564166 I expect they probably got that number directly from the DC metro and Capitol police. But let's take that total as a given; it would still probably be good to know what the nature and the severity of the injuries were. quote:If someone wants to argue that the crowd was not violent by all means go for it, but given the amount of footage of the crowd being violent, idk who is seriously calling that into question Who is saying the crowd wasn't violent? I don't think anyone is making that argument at all. Some folks are questioning whether or not the mob would likely have literally torn people limb-from-limb, but that's not the same thing as saying that the crowd wasn't violent.
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Jan 7, 2022 09:32
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Herstory Begins Now posted:im just responding to hashtag girlboss who clearly questions how violent the day actually was Right but the claim that the mob would have torn people limb from limb is where this line of discussion began: BiggerBoat posted:Except they were very much personally threatened. That is why posters like hashtag girlboss and myself are questioning whether or not what we know about the violence of the day actually substantiates that claim.
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Jan 7, 2022 09:46
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Cease to Hope posted:It's not possible to know what might've happened. Angry mobs can very quickly get out of hand, and unlike the comparison HTGB was drawing, we do know for certain that this was a mob hanging people in effigy and actually planting bombs. The problem with the way you’re framing it is that it implies that the mob had a singular purpose in planting pipe bombs. From what I’ve seen, none of the groups who participated in the riot are suspected of coordinating with the lone pipe bomb suspect. Again, that’s not to say that there weren’t a few people in the mob with murder on their minds or whatever; there may well have been. But I also don’t think it makes sense to assume that it was the case for more than a handful of the people who were there, until we see evidence that it was. Like I said earlier, outright killing someone in cold blood is a few steps above rushing a cop or punching a journalist, and I don’t think very many of these petty bourgeoise dumbshits had the balls to take those steps.
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Jan 7, 2022 10:12
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BiggerBoat posted:Sorry, double post but OK. I think for the vast majority of the rioters, the most that they would have done would be detaining those politicians you mention. That's obviously bad enough, and I agree with Mellow Seas saying that it constitutes an act of political violence on its own. For a handful of them, yes, it's possible that the people you mentioned would have been harmed or killed. Thankfully, secret service did its job well and got Pence and Pelosi down into the bunker quickly, so that there was little to no chance that they would ever come face-to-face with that handful of people. As I said last night, it takes a certain type of person to cold-bloodedly execute someone who is huddled in a corner, crying and begging for their life. I'm sure there were a few extremely sick people in that crowd who may have been able to do that. But I think most of them wouldn't be able to bring themselves to do it. There was a good Rolling Stone interview of John Sullivan, aka Jayden X, who captured Ashley Babbit's death on video, a week after Jan 6. Unsurprisingly, when Babbit went down, a lot of the fight seemed to leave the crowd that was trying to get into the House chamber. poo poo got real for them very quickly, and the riot cops were able to eject them easily. Most of the rioters seemed to be living a fantasy, where this was all a game, until it very suddenly and abruptly wasn't.
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Jan 7, 2022 19:07
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BiggerBoat posted:Keep loving laughing if it makes you feel better and more secure I suppose. Maybe that's just where we are and it'll take an(other) actual political assassination attempt or another Tim McVeigh bombing for people to take these people and their nazi bullshit with the seriousness that it deserves. What would "taking these people and their Nazi bullshit with the seriousness that it deserves" mean, exactly? I'm not talking about what it doesn't look like; what should people be doing or saying about these things, in your mind? e: I'm genuinely asking, to be completely clear. I think we all agree that the Dems as a party aren't treating it with any real sort of seriousness. Some of us are involved in various direct action campaigns, and there's always getting involved in Antifa or other movements like that, but beyond that, what should we be doing? At some point, it seems to me like all one CAN do is laugh at the ridiculous aspects of it all. Majorian fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jan 7, 2022 |
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Jan 7, 2022 22:38
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Herstory Begins Now posted:shun them, infiltrate them, prosecute them, and so on I mean, I'm already way ahead of you on point 1. Point 2, maybe, but that's something that people should probably figure out away from here. Point 3...I guess I'll get right on that after I go to law school and get elected DA or something? I may end up doing that last thing, I'm considering it, but I can't promise I'll be quick about it. In the meantime, though, what should people here be doing? Because I don't think any of us is in a position to prosecute 1/6 rioters or anything.
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Jan 7, 2022 22:45
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Herstory Begins Now posted:dude this as nothing to do with what i posted. i dont think there's jack poo poo that people here can meaningfully do to effect much change on the american far right. It's 50-100m people. It requires societal level interventions, which I assumed was apparent in the convo because I was replying to a post about how their material conditions needed to be improved. You were replying to my post, in which I asked BiggerBoat what people here "taking 1/6 seriously" would look like.
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Jan 7, 2022 23:01
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BiggerBoat posted:WEll, we can start by people on the very left leaning website, SomethingAwful.com, admitting that Jan 6 is not funny and not to be taken lightly or brushed off and hand waved. I've been on the "January 6 was serious and dangerous" train the whole time. It had some funny aspects, but you'll hear no arguments from me when you say that it was overall a bad, grotesque thing. But at this point in time, there's not much I or anyone else here can do about it. The Dems certainly aren't doing very much about it. If yesterday's spectacle was any indication, as a party they're not taking Jan 6 any more seriously than the most jaded posters here. People on a decaying comedy forum not taking it as seriously as you or I do isn't going to make much of a difference one way or the other.
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Jan 7, 2022 23:13
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| # ¿ May 18, 2024 15:48 |
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https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1483940154473472005 Lmao, Felix Biederman's dictum holds true: the funniest possible outcome in politics will always win out. There's not much actual info on it yet, but the HuffPo piece on it says that, shockingly, Thomas dissented. A little more surprisingly, he was the only dissenting vote.
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Jan 20, 2022 00:38
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