Ukraine: The straw that broke the camel's blyat

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > Ukraine: The straw that broke the camel's blyat

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Yeah, seems pretty accurate to me. It'd just take a handful of cryptofascist posters relentlessly amping up the worst ideas and attitudes for the echo chamber to be self-sustaining.

# ¿ Feb 25, 2022 17:04

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 19:32

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Milo and POTUS posted:

What's LGM

Little green men. In this case, intentional operatives spreading misinformation and a mindset that impedes critical thinking.

# ¿ Feb 25, 2022 18:12

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Hey folks, please check events in your area and turn out to your local pro-Ukraine demonstration. You're not going to directly affect Putin's decision making, but the more this makes the news, the more likely your governments will pursue a more stringent response against Putin.

Radical 90s Wizard posted:

Fuckin Cspam is very upset at the monster zelensky forcing his poor citizens to resist the russians. Apparently the proper thing to do is lose and accept invasion Also everyone is the CIA. Why the hell did I look in there...

It's been a tankie talking point for months that anyone supporting Ukraine's choice to defend itself is actually just lusting for Ukrainian blood.

I'm sure someone could compile a comprehensive list. Off the top of my head:

- "Your devotion to Western imperialism is betrayed by your lust for Ukrainian blood" :smug:

- "Putin is a monster. Full stop. But have you ever thought about how NATO is the real root of the problem? NATO NATO NATO NATO NARUTO NATO NATO. NATO? NATO" :words:

- "Azov exists, therefore Ukraine is a Nazi regime and Putin is doing the world a favor when you think about it." :hitler:

- "All this talk from the West about an imminent war is only amplifying tensions! If the West keeps talking like this, Putin will have to invade." :downs:

# ¿ Feb 26, 2022 02:24

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Just heard small arms fire on the Maidan stream for the first time (well, since Euromaidan, at least...). Not a good sign :smith:

# ¿ Feb 26, 2022 03:23

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Stairmaster posted:

seems premature to say russia is losing when they've been taking ground nonstop and have kiev encircled. too bad biden and the state department will never be held accountable for leaving ukraine in the wind

Encircled isn't accurate. Forays have been made into the city, but repelled. The airborne attempts to encircle have proven unsuccessful. Biden and the State Department never made promises beyond arms and sanctions, with actual military intervention being nonviable unless we wanted to start WW3.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2022 22:03

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Seattle protest was great! 500-1000 people turned up—hard to tell from on the ground. A number of local representatives turned up to speak in support.

Kazinsal posted:

I wonder what cspam�s thoughts on the Holodomor are.

No making GBS threads you, there were a couple CSPAM posters invading the D&D thread about a month back who rabidly argued the "Holodomor" is an anti-Semitic attempt to associate a "famine that didn't occur, or, if it did, was the kulaks fault" with the Holocaust to mislead ignorant Westerners into supporting Ukrainian Nazis. The thread's Eastern Europeans proceeded to tear them apart.

# ¿ Feb 27, 2022 02:33

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

The heroes live to fight another day! Слава Україні! Героям слава!

Cugel the Clever fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Feb 27, 2022

# ¿ Feb 27, 2022 06:23

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

I am as happy as anyone else to see images of destroyed Russian equipment, but if these maps are accurate Ukraine is in a terrible spot just a few days into the invasion.

There's never been any doubt that Putin's military would make significant apparent headway in a short period of time. What's notable, though, is that they have not only made significantly less progress than anticipated, but are also receiving extraordinary losses while doing so, suggesting wild incompetence and hubris on the part of their leadership. It's increasingly clear that, should the Ukrainian people choose insurgency, particularly supported by the West, there's no viable path for Putin to achieve his aim of subjugating the country, even should he capture Kyiv and murder Zelensky. It's possible that the average Ukrainian on the ground is less sanguine about resistance than the videos that we're seeing, but it remains to be seen.

# ¿ Feb 27, 2022 20:46

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Switzerland, after a long history of housing the assets of bad actors, might actually follow through with some kind of asset freeze?
https://twitter.com/McFaul/status/1498057338749472770?s=20&t=KuiD8ootT71leID2bXHt5A

# ¿ Feb 28, 2022 00:24

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Arven posted:

I still hate Biden, but JFC this crisis really illustrates why you need actual professionals in government and can't just put your son-in-law in charge.

The crisis mightn't have even reached the point of invasion because Trump would have attempted to pressure Zelensky into submitting and would have actively sabotaged any attempt to create a united response in Europe.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2022 17:27

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

CSPAM is salivating over the thought of the donation thread's Snake Island gang tag being changed to something anti-Ukrainian "when" Kyiv falls. If you haven't donated yet (or just haven't posted your donations), know that your donation will come with the extra bonus of inciting impotent tankie rage!

# ¿ Mar 1, 2022 21:44

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

PookBear posted:

do you have a link that people salivating over changing the gang-tag

OK baizuo posted:

IMO all of the "russian warship go gently caress yourself" d&d gang tags should be changed to the Mueller version when Kiev falls, seems only fair after they hosed with all of the NOJOE gangtags last year

I've only looked into the thread a few times, but the gang tag has been a topic of petty consternation each time. Lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth at the "NATO-pilled donors to Nazis".

# ¿ Mar 2, 2022 01:10

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

El Mero Mero posted:

Yelling at people because they aren't supporting the slave in the lion vs slave gladiator competition kinda misses the point of the criticism.

So, if I understand your analogy correctly, Russia is the lion, Ukraine is the slave, and the whole thing's been orchestrated for amusement and profit by the West, which ultimately is the only actor with agency?

If that's not what you're saying, you're gonna need to spell it out for me because, contrary to my user name, I'm clearly none too clever.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2022 02:04

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Mozi posted:

Is everyone supposed to be firing into each other's backs like that?

Never seems to cause problems in action movies, I'm sure it's fine. Just like using unencrypted radio comms. Keep on keepin' on, Russian soldiers!

# ¿ Mar 2, 2022 06:42

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

SMEGMA_MAIL posted:

Leading up to the war a ton of the coverage was literally parroting Azov propaganda events, and a bunch of foreign Ukraine related activism is tied with these groups and if people want to pretend that won�t be a problem in the future just lol.

Would you care to expand on what you mean by this? I've seen you pop up in Ukraine threads a couple times to scream "AZOV AZOV AZOV" and then each time flee faster than a Russian conscript whenever folks point out that Azov is fundamentally non-representative of Ukraine and that you're repeating pro-Kremlin propaganda that is intended to excuse the brutalization and mass murder of the Ukrainian people by Russian fascists.

The only thing that comes close to what you describe that I can think of is a single insufficiently inquisitive Western news crew covering an Azov training. Probably because they were desperately looking for a story and Nazis actively conceal their nature to pull in the credulous. But in no way does that reflect "tons of coverage parroting Azov propaganda" and none of the activism or donations raised on these forums are for the Nazis (unless CSPAM's set up a pro-Russia drive, idk).

Meanwhile, Russia is actively razing cities and murdering civilians for its fascist imperialist aggrandizement. That you keep circling back on this red herring raises questions about your priorities! Which is worse, a sliver of a donation changing hands a few times and maybe ending up with assholes in the chaos of war? Or a deliberate and unprovoked invasion intended to install a fascist puppet to end Ukraine's sovereignty and carry out bloody purges against democratic activists and the LGBTQ community?

# ¿ Mar 2, 2022 16:01

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

maffew buildings posted:

They're a Ukranians National Guard unit comprised of Neo-Nazis with a very ugly track record who may have been receiving training from the CIA which means we need to ignore that they're Nazis as far as I can tell

Calling out Nazis as Nazis is essential and good. Nobody here wants to support Nazis, so pointing them out where they are is important, especially if they're trying to conceal themselves. The problem comes when people respond to Russian fascist aggression by implying that supporting Ukraine is bad because a negligible handful of Nazis might manage to leech off the support.

Say your friend just kicked her abusive boyfriend out of her house, only to have his roid-raging dad break down the door and start claiming things as his and demanding they get back together, then he just squats threateningly in the living room for years, sometimes lashing out violently. Amidst all the chaos, a cockroach settles in and your friend has trouble rooting it out because, ya know, she's got a much much bigger problem on her hands. One day, roid-raging dad erupts on a scale never seen before, beating her savagely and demanding nothing less than her enslavement. You wouldn't refuse her support just because she's failed to rid herself of a pesky cockroach and your certainly wouldn't side with roid-raging dad over it. You help your friend fight for her life and squish the roach when you get the opportunity.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2022 22:22

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Today's Angry Planet on the invasion is pretty good and is worth a listen. The guest did raise some points of potential escalation with the West that I hadn't considered and may be a problem given Putin's state of mind, particularly Russian "active measures" against the European supply of Ukraine. They'd apparently bombed a Czech weapons depot a few years back because the stock was intended for Ukraine. If similar measures were taken in the current climate, particularly against a country with a particular anti-Russia animus, things would be at risk of hotting up.

Also re-emphasized to me just how big of a win Putin stopping at recognizing his puppet separatists would have been. Ukraine would have been left economically destabilized; the West would have looked to be crying wolf; Russian lives wouldn't have been fed into a meat grinder. All he had to do was declare that his aims had been achieved and everyone on his side would have completely memory-holed the more expansive demands.

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

Erm... this doesn't seem good. Can a bigger brain person please explain possible implications?

Probably best to be ignored until there's more reliable sources saying the same. Original tweet is from some rando low-follower account who doesn't live in Russia anymore and may just be putting out wishful thinking.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2022 04:17

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Bolow posted:

https://www.quora.com/How-strong-is-the-Russian-military%E2%80%99s-might/answer/Misha-Firer

From Nov 13 2021. Jeeeeeesus.

This is loving wild. I wonder how much understanding US intel had of the dire state of the Russian military as Putin started beating the war drums. Would think that, if poo poo like that ghost base is rampant, it would be pretty evident in satellite photos.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2022 05:48

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Burt posted:

Looks like the supply problem slackened off a bit.

Don't need supplies if you lose all your vehicles, weapons, and troops :gifttank:

# ¿ Mar 6, 2022 19:16

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

I'm surprised I haven't seen more tankies accusing Ukrainians of painting Zs on their own equipment.

If Ukraine can maintain a relatively static front long enough for sanctions on Russia to really start to bite, it will be interesting to see if Putin finally walks things back or tries to double down. I don't see the latter going well for him. He could absolutely get away with backing down, though: just shift the goal posts completely and execute some scape goats for the military debacle. Domestic audiences would probably accept it so long as they thought it meant the economy would go back to normal (what happens if the damage proves irreparable, I don't know). Western tankies, of course, would immediately accept it and continue to blast the message that "Ukraine hysteria" exists "to distract dumb libs".

# ¿ Mar 11, 2022 05:25

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

IPCRESS posted:

I'm not sure he could:

I think that even if he broke off in UA this instant, handed back Crimea, stopped "supporting " the "resistance" in Donetsk and Luhansk, paid reparations, signed (another...) treaty to respect UA sovereignty etc etc etc... he's bared his teeth one too many times, made nuclear threats and that the Western nations have finally gotten wise to him. It also costs much less political capital to keep sanctions up than to impose them in the first place.

The sanctions will see his regime out. I hope.

Agreed entirely, I accidentally dropped the sentence from my post where I intended to emphasize the short-term success of backing down very possibly giving way to regime collapse in the medium-term as the damage done to the Russian economy proves irreparable in our lifetimes.

But it's still a better option than doubling down as there's at least a slim chance that, if he removes his already tiny dick from the grinder, he might staunch the bleeding and muddle through, mangled, like North Korea has managed to. If he just sticks it in further, his regime will bleed out on the steppe.

Assuming, of course, that the videos we're seeing of rank incompetence from the Russian military actually reflect the whole rather than just its least competent parts.

# ¿ Mar 11, 2022 10:01

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Tucker and Glum Grimwald are aggressively amplifying Russian propaganda about Ukrainian "bio weapons" to justify Russian atrocities, transforming the mundane "Ukraine has biological research facilities where diseases are stored and researched" into the apocalyptic "HERE'S WHAT AMERIKKKA AND THE CIA DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW: PERFIDIOUS UKRAINE IS A ROGUE BIO WEAPON PRODUCING NAZI STATE. WAKE UP SHEEPLE".

Really hoping he'll finally eat a Twitter ban over this.

Cugel the Clever fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Mar 11, 2022

# ¿ Mar 11, 2022 16:57

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

I just lol at the folks that get legit upset about people celebrating things like the Ghost of Kyiv, Snake Island, etc. while knowing that they are either non-factual or embellished. The people of Ukraine are being brutalized and murdered by a lovely villain, don't get upset that they and those who support them find joy and resolve in stories of heroism.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2022 19:12

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Yeah, I'm not thinking NATO is about to wage an aggressive war against Russia on Russian territory any time soon.

A Festivus Miracle posted:

https://mobile.twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1502987480827637764

Seizing foreign aircraft, paying foreign debts in monopoly money.

I've zero idea how international finance works at the state level, but it seems like a giant foot gun to maintain one's reserves in countries you know you're going to provoke to extreme antipathy.

# ¿ Mar 14, 2022 04:54

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

I can just imagine the tankie freakout over further NATO imperialist encroachment on Russia's god-given sphere of influence.

# ¿ Mar 14, 2022 16:44

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

A Belarusian coup would be awesome, but could well push Putin over the edge to doing something crazy(er).

# ¿ Mar 17, 2022 01:07

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

cult_hero posted:

Also given that Ukraine was traditionally known as the "bread basket" of the Soviet Union.... In other words, how are grain futures doing?

For anyone who speaks French, France Culture did a deep dive with experts on the food situation. My French is a little rusty, so the only notable takeaways I got were confirmation of the various infographics about importers of Russian and Ukrainian grains and their claims to have reserves sufficient for this year, at least. But if the war fails to conclude quickly (or some pretty flimsy and/or corrupt regimes have cooked the books) things could get rough. I think Lebanon, in particular, lost a huge chunk of what it had in the massive explosion a while back.

Also gave an episode of Sicherheitshalber on the invasion a listen and lol my German is even rustier than my French, jumping at random between understanding fluently for minutes at a time before diving into incomprehensibility. Probably didn't help to occasionally be reading English while listening. Was interesting to hear that the left-wing German party Die Linke (descendant of the East German ruling party) has apparently come out against Putin, though what that translates to in action I have no idea. Other parties have done similar to one extent or another and Putinverstehers are hunkering down.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2022 03:33

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Tomn posted:

Just gonna leave this here...

Papists

# ¿ Mar 17, 2022 18:46

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Ukraine: I prefer my Russian soldiers flame-broiled — We know Azov are nazis k thx

# ¿ Mar 18, 2022 22:26

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

A.o.D. posted:

Wasn't Azov down to something like 900 actual dudes at the start of this conflict?

Yep, they were pretty marginal, but with an outsized PR department to make sure they got visibility. And, of course, there's nothing like a desperate defensive war against a stronger power that claims your "nation" is "fake" to fill the ranks with folks who don't have the luxury of being too discerning about what Azov's ideology is beyond "defend Ukraine; defend your home", so long as they mobilize a defense against the marauding invader. Meanwhile, the org's PR department is still in full swing and pushing out watermarked videos of Russian defeats. Putin's the best thing that ever happened to Azov.

They're not a reason to hesitate for a second in supporting Ukrainians as they defend their homes. The biggest counterweight to Azov's potential to metastasize is probably Zelensky himself, who's offering a very prominent alternative around which to rally.

# ¿ Mar 19, 2022 16:13

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

I agree with the sentiment that Ukraine appears to be winning at the moment, but only extremely tentatively. It will be interesting to see in the coming weeks if they can effect meaningful reversals on the invaders that would undeniably confirm the magnitude of Russia's command and logistic failures.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2022 15:19

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

PookBear posted:

he's a convicted human trafficker which is why he doesn't have any guns in his videos

but yeah other than that cool dude!

I'm suddenly very curious about what on Earth the story is as I'd not heard about this.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2022 15:39

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

First time Ukraine strike idle aircraft on tarmac, shame on you(-kraine). Second time Ukraine strike idle aircraft on tarmac, shame on me. Tenth time Ukraine strike idle aircraft on tarmac??? BLYAT BLYAT BLYAT

# ¿ Mar 24, 2022 23:12

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

pantslesswithwolves posted:

I don't think Biden was actually calling for Putin to be ousted, but I do agree that it was a pretty dumb thing to say.

Very much disagree. If anything, our leaders need to finally take seriously the threat right-wing authoritarians around the world pose and more overtly rally a bloc resolved to being a counterweight. One of the principle reasons Putin felt confident going into Ukraine is that Western leaders have been ludicrously permissive of blatant Russian influence ops targeted at undermining the West's willingness and capability to respond to Putin's belligerence. Decades of scummy and vacillating Western politicians have tolerated or even directly taken part in active measures to weaken liberal democracy. It's amazed everyone that European leaders have managed to muster the relatively unified response that they have, but even that is clearly compromised by longstanding Russian machinations to hobble it.

Europe and Biden shouldn't be rooting for WW3 by any means, but they must drop the decorum bullshit and call out malign actors, both at home and abroad, who are intent on demolishing liberal democracy, flawed and incomplete as it might be.

# ¿ Mar 27, 2022 16:49

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

And it's not like sticking to vague, tepid statements would do anything to meaningfully stymy authoritarian propaganda. Whether it's contemporary American conservatism or RT, they will actively invent complete nonsense to bolster their support—and huge swathes of stupid fuckers will fall for it. Better to take an explicit stand with a rallying message than to keep up the noncommittal "well, president Putin's actions aren't great, I guess".

# ¿ Mar 27, 2022 17:03

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Saukkis posted:

I understand everyone want's to get rid of Putin, but it's not the responsibility of US to facilitate that, they haven't had good enough track record on such projects. Maybe they haven't had enough non-selfish reasons while doing them. What I want is the Russian people to do that choice by themselves, or I might just settle for the Russian oligarchs.

Agreed, Western leaders have zero responsibility to drive on Moscow and haul Putin out of his bunker to face the consequences of his actions, but they absolutely have the responsibility to protect their own citizens from the threat posed by autocrats. Putin and other authoritarians (including our putative "allies") have been actively undermining liberal democracies with financing and propaganda to fertilize illiberal extremists on both the left and right. It's been a loving open joke that politician so-and-so or such-and-such an organization is aligned with foreign powers determined to sow chaos, but it's been such a slow boil that everyone has just shrugged their shoulders. Trump's election raised a degree of awareness, but plenty of folks seem content to just keep on keeping on.

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

Before, they could back down and presumably sanctions would be wound down. Biden's statement yesterday implies that only regime change would be acceptable for the US. That changes the decision making process on Russia's end - that is why the statement was immediately "clarified".

Russian media has long been trumpeting that the West is engaged in an existential war against the Russian people. Biden openly declaring Putin to be the unacceptably bad actor he is won't push the needle on the Kremlin's decision making an inch. Particularly since public rhetoric can easily differ wildly from private: a leader using uncompromising language to rally sentiment and policy at home and with allies can easily backchannel that there's room for accommodation should Putin completely withdraw and pay reparations. Start at a maximalist position instead of giving away the whole ball game from the start, especially when Russia's capabilities are so clearly wanting.

# ¿ Mar 27, 2022 20:38

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Lovely Joe Stalin posted:

Huh, looks like the whole poisoning story is bollocks and Bellingcat being unreliable.

Feel free to actually post a reference instead of zero-effort shitposting about it :shrug:

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ Mar 29, 2022 03:15

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

windshipper posted:

I am the idiot. I hit up the international legion asking for more information about providing medical help. I have the training, the knowledge, etc, from 10 years in EMS. I know that�s not battlefield, and my patient population isn�t 20 year olds with GSWs on average (but I have treated that). So we�ll see. Right now, I just want more information, and maybe I�ll go with an NGO instead. I�m divorced, no kids. Pretty much right in the golden circle of no responsibilities other than my day job.

That said, international legion does also have an option for no military experience, no combat experience, plz don�t send me there. Which is my realm.

I can seriously empathize with the compulsion to take concrete action like that. As much as we rightly mock the dangerous idiots passionate for the chance to get their war on, the compulsion to try to make some difference is real, especially in light of the latest reports of Russian atrocities. But the voices above urging caution and recommending channeling those feelings into local action are right. Unless you speak passable Ukrainian or Russian, your ability to effectively make a difference on the ground is probably pretty limited, regardless of your EMS experience.

Your impact is probably going to be greater with boring thing like finding a way to help more at home, donating money, decarbonizing your lifestyle, and even just talking about the war with the people around you. There's a lot of folks either not paying attention or hearing Russian propaganda who could benefit from the viewpoint of someone they trust.

If you must go, it's probably best to explore the NGO route thoroughly first. See if you can get a call with folks in the same role over there to better understand what you're committing to and whether you're up to it. It's also worth a healthy look in the mirror to reflect on your motivations. There are significantly worse reasons than "I want to help and there's not much holding me back," just make sure you're as fully cognizant of it as possible.

# ¿ Apr 5, 2022 05:46

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

I'm very curious about the scale of and timeline for the mobilization of Ukraine's reservists and new volunteers. It's not looking realistic for Russia to adequately replenish their forces in the short term, so, from a purely quantitative perspective, it looks like Ukraine could not only hold their lines but start taking back territory that the Russian forces simply lack the resources to hold? Or does the likely shortage of offensive hardware balance out that potential advantage in raw manpower?

# ¿ Apr 10, 2022 19:21

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 19:32

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Cimber posted:

"Hey, look, we are talking! See? We are talking while we bomb refugee convoys. We are not the bad guys cuz we are talking!"

"You're publishing evidence of our egregious war crimes‽ You're striking military assets within Russia itself‽ You're continuing to resist our invasion‽ Why are you blocking the peace process like this???"

Cugel the Clever fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Apr 13, 2022

# ¿ Apr 12, 2022 21:42

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > Ukraine: The straw that broke the camel's blyat

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