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Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler

Red Oktober posted:

It’s just dawned on me this morning that Johnson has probably gotten away with all the party stuff now. No one is talking about anything but Ukraine.

Covid is cured, too! But yeah, it's a winning strategy: just grimly hang on until world events overtake things and everyone starts talking about something else.

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Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler

peanut- posted:

Replies to this are wild.

So we should just do nothing?? Putin must be laughing in his bunker right now, you TRAITOR.*





*I've summarised the replies, so nobody else has to put themselves through reading them.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler

keep punching joe posted:

I know nothing about Russian internal politics, but is there a possibility that harsh economic sanctions could spark internal conflict. Like the Balkans war(s), except this time bigger and with the power of the atom harnessed.

Naah. Sanctions never work - they impoverish ordinary people in the countries that they're targeted at but do little or nothing to destabilize regimes or encourage internal rebellion. Places like North Korea and Iran have been sanctioned for decades to no discernable effect; conversely, I can't think of a single situation where sanctions actually achieved their aim of changing a country's behaviour.

Basically, if you're too stubborn to negotiate but don't fancy actually starting a war, sanctions are the perfect middle option, the 'being seen to be doing something' of international relations. (Naturally, our declining neoliberal western regimes loving love them.)

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
I mean, if you look at the language of the actual people imposing the sanctions, it's all about "being tough" and "sending a clear message" etc, which comes back to my point that sanctions are mostly gesture politics used when you don't want to either talk to or fight with an opponent.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler

ThomasPaine posted:

I haven't looked at the war thread, is it as ridiculous as I imagine it is?

The dnd thread is awful, you honestly get more level headed and informative posting in the Cspam equivalent.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
They're a grumpy bunch in that thread, yeah.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler

Biggus Dickus posted:

Those American candy stores are in Private Eye this week:



I was in the Cardiff store last week! I thought it was an odd setup: the store's in a prime location directly opposite Cardiff Castle but was almost empty and the stuff on sale was hugely overpriced - a medium sized bag of chocolate coated pretzels was £11 ffs. Couldn't believe there'd be enough tourists who'd pay those sort of prices.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
Also, the dnd war thread has probed Ronya, another casualty of this meaningless conflict :rip:

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
I also have a accent.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
That's not a plan: it's almost Starmerite in its substitution of banal aspirations over any sort of concrete proposals.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler

goddamnedtwisto posted:


Those hoping this will bankrupt the Labour Party are likely to be disappointed though - unless they did something *very* stupid when transferring data to these other companies it almost definitely has clean enough hands to not get hit by either the ICO or the lawsuit (although again the devil may be in the details, and the fact there's a funny smell around the use of at least one of these companies there's a *possibility* that they did in fact do something very silly, for example not doing due diligence about the data protection policies of the companies or transferring more data than is required for the stated reason for the transfer).

Yeah, it's not like the current leadership has a record of doing bafflingly stupid poo poo, so I'm sure they have absolutely nothing to worry about :)

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
War reporting in the UK press continues to be amazingly bad. Just looking at the Guardian: most of the site's front page is nothing but Ukraine news and yet there's not a single article that just sets out a basic overview of the state of the war, where the key fronts are and whether the Russians are advancing, retreating, or mostly static. It's all isolated, disjointed stuff like "Shell hits apartment building" and "News reporter killed by shrapnel". If you want to know how the war is actually developing, you have to look elsewhere.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler

keep punching joe posted:

Just have Al Jazeera on in the background.

Al Jazeera's actually heaps better, good call.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
Guys, I just can't follow this Russia/ Ukraine argument. Could you reframe it as a Star Wars or Harry Potter analogy?

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
Two of my team of four people have picked it up over the weekend!

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler

Crankit posted:

I've got a week off work coming up real soon and I'm stupid so I have no idea what I'm gonna do with myself, I can get free transport to brighton and london, can anyone recommend some kinda tourist days out that are pretty cheap? Thanks!

The big national museums are all free, though I think they are still doing the Covid check-in thing! The British Museum could be a day out just by itself.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
People often forget Churchill was heavily involved in WW1 as well... his record in that war was distinctly mixed.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
It does look like the next election is shaping up to be one where culture war issues are pushed hard to distract from the state of the economy etc. You'd think that Labour would get round to having some effective answers to these sorts of questions at some point but as long as their response is a hunted expression and awkward prevarication, interviewers are going to keep gleefully asking them.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler

Mebh posted:

Christ watching that sack of steamed ham attempt to middle management his way out of saying anything constructive or helpful in case he offends a potential voter is just so... so... gently caress I don't even know. It's all just so hopeless sometimes.

We're right back in that post-2010 situation where there's a Tory government that nobody likes that much but a Labour opposition that exists for the purpose of standing for absolutely nothing and... Yep, it's pretty hopeless. I don't know what my point is.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler

keep punching joe posted:

I see Jeremy Crombyn has worked the Liberals up into an apoplectic rage this morning simply by posting an utterly innocuous comment.

https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1511000514292600833?t=6dWM5tyF9kVFuO8y6WPSLQ

Lol, I'd just come across this on Twitter. David Gauke was all : "HOW DARE YOU CALL FOR A CEASEFIRE WE NEED MORE BLOOD"

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
This thread is loads slower since the Ukraine war started. Why is that, is everyone watching the news about that instead?

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
Funny seeing Sunak doing the hero-to-zero cycle in the media, when he's been the exact same person throughout. It's Theresa May all over again lol.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
Never understood why someone as rich as him is bothering to work at all. Some ego thing due to feeling a bit inferior at being rich but not as rich as the billionaire family he's married into?

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
Yeah, everyone stopped voting for Scottish Labour 'cos they were a garbage party that stood for absolutely nothing. Funny thing is, they still seem to think that the voters will eventually drift back to them, without them having to change or do anything, it's weird.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler

crispix posted:

it's not even just the absence of policies that's astonishing, the thing that really short-circuits my brain is the way those people in labour all talk with the same bizarrely stilted speech and overuse the same soundbites in the way of politicians 20-30 years ago

*Homer Simpson voice* "Sure, it's not 1997 now, but who knows what the future will bring?"

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
Yeah,if you're passionate, sincere and persistent , you absolutely can change people's received opinions about stuff. It's one of the things that Labour have completely abandoned though, as it requires courage and moral integrity.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
Feeling a real buzz right now, guys.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
Thread's bickering about Covid precautions like it's 2020. Just stress about Ukraine or something, like everyone else is!

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
I fund the Bristol Cable and the Byline Times because they're at least trying to promote independent journalism :shrug:

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler

Strom Cuzewon posted:

My swashbuckling recommendation is The Long Ships - jolly viking adventures, that masks a more serious look at medieval religion, politics, and the christianisation of Norway. It also has vikings competing over poetry, and getting all pissy when someone busts out a great poem completely off the cuff because now it means they have to come up with a better one right away.


The Long Ships owns and is tremendously good fun to read.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler

bump_fn posted:

gently caress it’s so nice out

Yep, just having a beer in the sun right now, Bristol's back in it's normal sunny Saturday mode, where the whole city centre is like a chilled, low-level music festival :cheers:

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler

OwlFancier posted:

They are absolutely ramming the bus stations round here with his horrible mug, so it's not for lack of trying.

It's going to be just like CNN+ in the USA, which crashed and burned within weeks of launch: nobody's going to pay to listen to dumb, lovely opinions while there's so many places giving them away for free already.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
What's some good reading for a basic overview of Marxism and how it can be applied to our contemporary society? It's struck me that while I instinctively support the left, I'd struggle to put forward a coherent framework as to why I do, if asked.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler

Bobby Deluxe posted:

Absolutely the perfect end to that idiot's career is if the one single issue he manages to take a stand on is covid parties, and all the righteous anger he's managed to stoke in the population is instantly reflected back in his face.

The only downside is that we may yet see PM McShitter.

Wonder if that's why he's been looking even more uncomfortable than usual in recent interviews: he knows that there's even more stuff that hasn't come out yet and he keeps expecting to get ambushed with it.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
On the current trajectory the Unionists in NI are in inexorable decline: the Unionist population is on average older than the Nationalists and has fewer children: they're shrinking year by year as a proportion of the total population. They also have no political leverage at Westminister and no coherent alternative to the Nationalist plan for a United Ireland. To regain momentum, they'd need some kind of fundamental change, and their whole thing is resistance to change, so....

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
Crazy seeing how quickly Starmer goes to pieces and starts making stupid decisions the moment he's actually put under pressure.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
Can't help but feel that there's an element of self-sabotage here: he's subconsciously hating being leader and if the Durham police fine him then it's kind of their decision rather than his decision that he goes.

I mean, I've been monitoring his recent TV appearances, and if he's enjoying being Labour leader at all, then he's extremely good at hiding it.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
The New Statesman has an actual good article! It's by the guy who just wrote that book about Starmer, gonna quote it in full, so you don't have to look at the rest of the site:

Oliver Eagleton posted:


How Keir Starmer trapped himself

Keir Starmer may soon regret his televised pledge to resign as Labour leader if he is fined for breaching lockdown restrictions. The revelation that his takeaway dinner in April 2021, when indoor socialising was illegal, was pre-planned could either incriminate or exonerate him, depending on which barrister one asks. Whatever the outcome of the Durham police investigation, Starmer’s promise to “do the right thing” provides an important insight into his leadership. It also conveys a broader truth about our political culture, highlighting the potential for a seemingly cautious electoral strategy – based on managerial centrism – to backfire catastrophically.

What might be called “Starmerism” rests on an iron respect for rules, laws and conventions, seen as essential to the functioning of the state. Its figurehead is a career bureaucrat who once ran the Crown Prosecution Service: interpreting legal guidelines to crack down on peaceful protesters and dispensing conveyor-belt justice during the 2011 England riots. By transplanting this punitive skill-set to the Labour Party, Starmer aims to repress the legacy of his predecessor, who channelled the libertine energies of Generation Left. In opposition to that youthful irresponsibility, he projects an image of maturity, competence, moderation: enforcing the reality principle on those who’d rather flout it.

Starmer has also used his law-abiding persona to draw a favourable contrast with the Prime Minister. Boris Johnson’s initial appeal lay in his willingness to suspend the rules of Westminster politics: proroguing parliament, removing the whip from insubordinate MPs and discarding Britain’s legal obligations in order to fulfil the Brexit mandate. On each occasion, his defiance positioned him on the side of the people against the pieties of the establishment. But partygate inverted this logic. By hosting piss-ups at the height of the pandemic, Johnson’s rule-breaking was recast as elitist, while Starmer’s restraint became attractive. Johnson was a bad apple, Starmer a consummate statesman.

Starmer thereby defined himself against Jeremy Corbyn and Johnson, presented as equally disruptive influences – the first because of his ambition to radically transform society, the second because of his personal unfitness for office. Contra to these antagonists, the Labour leader vowed to run the state as a clean and effective bureaucracy. He would uphold its rules, streamline its systems and manage them efficiently, rescuing Britain from crankish ideologues and incontinent hedonists. The approach seemed to have been vindicated by Labour’s impressive polling surge last December. A ten-point lead for the Tories turned into a ten-point lead for the opposition within a matter of weeks, as details of No 10 lockdown parties emerged.

Yet, even then, this strategy suffered from two major drawbacks. First, it was intensely negative. Starmer could assail the Labour left and deride Johnson’s unprofessionalism, but he could not construct a popular programme. His reputation as a bland administrator only allowed him to benefit by default from Tory crises. In the recent local elections, the limits of those gains were plain to see. Labour performed worse outside the capital than in the previous local elections in 2018 and undershot expectations among wavering Red Wall voters. As Andrew Marr reflected in these pages, “there is no great evidence… of popular warmth towards Keir Starmer, nor of a widespread belief that he has an economic answer to the country’s immediate economic and social pain”.

Second, Starmer’s ability to capitalise on political scandals was offset by his susceptibility to them. By acting as a defender of the state, whose rules he would police with righteous pedantry, he was setting himself up to be seen as a hypocrite. It’s not that he would inevitably violate the objective standards he demanded of Johnson; it’s that, in the political sphere, objective standards do not exist. Rules can always be creatively applied and goalposts shifted. Positioning oneself on the side of the law presupposes that the law will be accurately interpreted, by the authorities and the general public. But accuracy in politics is subordinate to power. Beergate has showed that, with enough media pressure, it is possible to reverse a supposedly impartial police decision and convince the majority of the electorate that an offence likely took place.

This strikes at the foundations of Starmerism. For it means that his method – juxtaposing rules to anarchy, the state to its opponents – can never be executed with sufficient caution. No matter what Starmer does, scandals that place him on the wrong side of those antinomies can be uncovered or confected. And without a set of compelling policies, he has no ballast against them.

Starmer’s decision to foreground partygate over the cost-of-living crisis – indicative of his wider emphasis on competence over ideology – has now caused issues for him. A political project that relies on scandals is liable to end up being consumed by one. Even if he is not fined for his late-night curry, the perception of duplicity will linger, and increase his vulnerability to other hostile news stories. Yet this raises the question: would a bolder leader have ignored Johnson’s lockdown fêtes to focus on bread-and-butter issues? No, because scandals crystallise the realities of class conflict. Through the lens of a left programme, they become metonyms for the behaviour of elites; not an exception to the norm, but a potent reflection of it.

For Starmer, episodes such as partygate represent a clash between the dictates of authority and the malefactors who infringe them. For socialists, however, the framing is different. Instances of rule-breaking are not deployed to reinforce establishment codes but to prove that society’s broader rules are broken, and need to be replaced.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
My favourite bit of the article is where he points out that Starmer's positioning of himself as the solid defender of rules and order relies on the media being fair and not just making poo poo up about him in order for it to work.

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Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
You should be allowed pets measured by a maximum weight of, say, 50 kilos of pet per household. So in any one property, you could potentially have 1 large dog, 10 medium-sized cats, or 25,000 cockroaches.

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